I've come to the conclusion I only date/am interested in jerks

[JaneyJ1991]

I woke up with this consensus this morning. Maybe it's recent events that have convinced me of this, but I woke up with this life changing epiphany this morning.

 

I understand a lot of us women are attracted to the wrong guys--I know I was, back in the beginning of college. But I thought I fixed it. I realized what red flags look like. I also learned to cut someone off who treats you badly--ask any man I've stonewalled, and they'll tell you the same thing. I learned that not often do friends deserve second chances, and dating partners virtually NEVER deserve a second chance. I was raised by a dad who doesn't treat women well--and I REALIZED in counseling how mindful I have to be to not choose someone like him.

 

I also thought well "maybe I'm just attracted to the wrong 'type' of guy": I like tall, funny, articulate guys. So maybe with that humor comes a sort of cockiness or confidence.

So I thought..I need to branch out and date someone who wouldn't be traditionally my "type". Give him a chance. So I did. And guess what?! He turned out to be an ******* too!

I've learned that there's really no such thing as "nice guys".

 

So I'm starting to think it's just me. I guess I'm just venting. But I don't get what it is. I feel like at this point, the men I've dated have actually had to go to more effort to screw me over than to treat me like a person they cared about. I just don't get it.

 

I will consider the convent if they will let me bring my dog.

Edited July 5, 2015 by JaneyJ1991

[Redhead14]

I woke up with this consensus this morning. Maybe it's recent events that have convinced me of this, but I woke up with this life changing epiphany this morning.

 

I understand a lot of us women are attracted to the wrong guys--I know I was, back in the beginning of college. But I thought I fixed it. I realized what red flags look like. I also learned to cut someone off who treats you badly--ask any man I've stonewalled, and they'll tell you the same thing. I learned that not often do friends deserve second chances, and dating partners virtually NEVER deserve a second chance. I was raised by a dad who doesn't treat women well--and I REALIZED in counseling how mindful I have to be to not choose someone like him.

 

I also thought well "maybe I'm just attracted to the wrong 'type' of guy": I like tall, funny, articulate guys. So maybe with that humor comes a sort of cockiness or confidence.

So I thought..I need to branch out and date someone who wouldn't be traditionally my "type". Give him a chance. So I did. And guess what?! He turned out to be an ******* too!

 

I've learned that there's really no such thing as "nice guys"--there's just guys that are passive or don't have enough draw to women, so they wait and bide their time and pretend to be "sweet" and kind, meanwhile they're just jerks who aren't confident enough to be jerks at the beginning, and you have to wait awhile for the dark side to come out.

 

So I'm starting to think it's just me. I guess I'm just venting. But I don't get what it is. I feel like at this point, the men I've dated have actually had to go to more effort to screw me over than to treat me like a person they cared about. I just don't get it.

 

I was raised by a dad who doesn't treat women well--and I REALIZED in counseling how mindful I have to be to not choose someone like him. -- It's great that you've identified this piece of that puzzle. However, you also need to be mindful of the fact that unconsciously the model he projected onto you as a child was still what you've learned from him and likely made you feel at some point that that is what you deserve too. You had feelings for your father and he was the only male role model you had. So, even though you're being cognizant on a conscious level about not choosing men like that, deep down, these guys "feel" like your dad. It's still an unconscious thing. You need to be more in touch with your "feelings" about your dad and the relationship you had with him. You may be still looking for the relationship you had with him. It really doesn't matter that he treated women well or not. It may be about how he treated you . . .

[toscaroscura]

Dads really do matter, don't they.

 

My dad is a narcissistic genius (like, literally, he has an amazing IQ), who was cold and aloof most of the time. He used to literally ignore me when I tried to talk to him, if he was busy doing something. When he was actually in the mood to engage with me, he was amazingly fun and taught me all kinds of stuff. Those times were rare.

 

He also had a terrible temper and would explode like a raging volcano sometimes. You never knew when it was coming.

 

I thought I was picking the opposite of my dad, because none of the men I have been with had any tempers. I actively avoided hot-heads because I was terrified of repeating living with my father and his red-faced, hours-long screaming sessions all over again. I thought I was so smart, avoiding my mother's fate of walking on eggshells for 14 years until she finally left him.

 

Little did I realize that I was picking his other side: the cold intellectual and/or emotionally unavailable guys. My history with men has just been little-girl-me, desperately trying to get my guy (dad) to pay attention to me and love me. Guys who run hot and cold, and when they are hot, it feels like you are their everything, but when they are cold, you may as well be dead to them.

 

This past year has been me doing a lot of work on myself to fix this. It's so hard to change these patterns!

[cessna]

There are nice guys out there, plenty of them in fact.

 

I'm sorry but I have no sympathy when girls get involved with arsehole guys and come out the other side hurt. You only have yourself to blame I'm afraid.

[Raena]

There are nice guys out there, plenty of them in fact.

 

I'm sorry but I have no sympathy when girls get involved with arsehole guys and come out the other side hurt. You only have yourself to blame I'm afraid.

 

You do realize that arsehole guys aren't always easy to spot. Most of the time, their arseholeness doesn't come out until they feel like they've got you reeled in. So there's that...

[toscaroscura]

There are nice guys out there, plenty of them in fact.

 

I'm sorry but I have no sympathy when girls get involved with arsehole guys and come out the other side hurt. You only have yourself to blame I'm afraid.

 

We all, men and women, act out ancient family dynamics and sometimes act from places of fear and hurt.

 

I see my "nice guy" friends pining over some unavailable woman who pines over another guy. I'm willing to bet the "nice guy" chases her due to similar family damage. Maybe he's trying to get mom to love him!

 

If you find yourself constantly chasing women who aren't into you, maybe the problem isn't that women only go for jerks. Maybe it's that you chase emotionally unavailable women. That requires you to maybe examine your choices like Janey and I have been doing, and changing your patterns.

 

Having empathy for people and their struggles will take you a long way in dating and life.

[Redhead14]

You do realize that arsehole guys aren't always easy to spot. Most of the time, their arseholeness doesn't come out until they feel like they've got you reeled in. So there's that...

 

Well, that's the thing. You don't know who they are for quite some time. Most people are on their best behavior for a while when they first start dating someone. But basically they aren't being themselves. However, they can't maintain that for too long. Eventually, their true selves come through. This is why people need to manage their emotions and expectations for really a long time. This is what the "honeymoon" period is about. At some point, it appears that a person is changing or has changed. They really haven't, they are just "reverting" back to the real them.

 

In cases, where people feel that the honeymoon period never ended, it's because both parties were being themselves from the very beginning

[soyou]

I think you need to get a professional help to help you further in your life.

 

There are so many nice and kind men out there ( I'm 1000% sure and I can guarantee you about that). It may be that your personality, characters, or attitude which attracts asxholes.

[cessna]

It's a different issue if they change into an arsehole later down the line, I agree with that.

 

But I see so many woman swooning over guys that anyone in the room can tell is an utter dickhead. That is were I have no sympathy for the girl.

 

This isn't a case of me being sore that woman chase these guys instead of me, I'm happy being on my own and I don't need love in my life.

[Redhead14]

It's a different issue if they change into an arsehole later down the line, I agree with that.

 

But I see so many woman swooning over guys that anyone in the room can tell is an utter dickhead. That is were I have no sympathy for the girl.

 

This isn't a case of me being sore that woman chase these guys instead of me, I'm happy being on my own and I don't need love in my life.

 

But I see so many woman swooning over guys that anyone in the room can tell is an utter dickhead. -- Yes, and it's more than likely that they either feel that's what they deserve and/or those men resemble other male role models they've had. And, yes, it's their own fault on some level. But if they aren't mature and they haven't looked into themselves deeply enough to understand themselves, they don't have the ability to recognize or know the difference between good and bad dating partners. Until they can do that, it's not really about "fault" per se, they just aren't "there" yet.

 

And, everybody needs love. Not everybody needs an "outside" love. If they love themselves enough, the outside love they seek or gain only enhances their own. Emotionally healthy people don't really need someone else's love to be happy. If they are needing that kind of outside validation, they aren't strong, independent people who are entirely happy with themselves.

[JaneyJ1991]

I realize the family patterns dynamic thing is usually subconscious. But through counseling I think I've gotten pretty good at identifying who is and is not like him. He also has an explosive temper--with hot and cold. And my mom vacillates between believing "he's wasn't ever a bad father" to "why is he like this every night?" He's VERY controlling and demeaning.

 

But I realize what my dad thought (or still thinks) doesn't define me as a person. I feel like I'm a lot less in touch with my emotions than I would have been if I'd had a dad who made me feel important, special and cared about all the time, but it's okay.

 

I refuse to believe I'm ****ed for life with men, just because I have a father who treated his wife and children badly.

 

The jerks I've been picking lately are nothing like him. I picked a guy at the beginning of college who held a lot of personality parallels to my dad--and it ended terribly. Since then, the guys I pick really are nothing like him--I can't stand the hot and cold/pins and needles "oh what is he going to be like today". I can't do violent tempers (first sign of a temper, I'm gone). And I don't tolerate controlling of clingy behaviors--at the first sign of someone getting that way, the red warning lights go off.

[Redhead14]

I realize the family patterns dynamic thing is usually subconscious. But through counseling I think I've gotten pretty good at identifying who is and is not like him. He also has an explosive temper--with hot and cold. And my mom vacillates between believing "he's wasn't ever a bad father" to "why is he like this every night?" He's VERY controlling and demeaning.

 

But I realize what my dad thought (or still thinks) doesn't define me as a person. I feel like I'm a lot less in touch with my emotions than I would have been if I'd had a dad who made me feel important, special and cared about all the time, but it's okay.

 

I refuse to believe I'm ****ed for life with men, just because I have a father who treated his wife and children badly.

 

The jerks I've been picking lately are nothing like him. I picked a guy at the beginning of college who held a lot of personality parallels to my dad--and it ended terribly. Since then, the guys I pick really are nothing like him--I can't stand the hot and cold/pins and needles "oh what is he going to be like today". I can't do violent tempers (first sign of a temper, I'm gone). And I don't tolerate controlling of clingy behaviors--at the first sign of someone getting that way, the red warning lights go off.

 

And I don't tolerate controlling of clingy behaviors--at the first sign of someone getting that way, the red warning lights go off. -- You do realize why you do this, yes? That is what your mother did with your father. He didn't treat her well, but she negated and made excuses, accepted his behavior and clung to a relationship that wasn't good for her.

 

You are well on your way to "breaking" the pattern. It's a process. Be good to yourself and be patient.

[JaneyJ1991]

At some point, it appears that a person is changing or has changed. They really haven't, they are just "reverting" back to the real them.

This. This so much. It's funny because looking back, you can SEE them changing into their authentic self. The gentle decline. But at the time it's pretty subtle.

[JaneyJ1991]

You do realize why you do this, yes? That is what your mother did with your father. He didn't treat her well, but she negated and made excuses, accepted his behavior and clung to a relationship that wasn't good for her.

 

You are well on your way to "breaking" the pattern. It's a process. Be good to yourself and be patient.

Yes, I do realize why I do. She still clings to him, despite the fact I think he's really robbed her of a happy, emotionally well-balanced adult life. She almost left him shortly after they got married, but I think the old school mentality of "you make a marriage work, you don't quit it. You'll marry someone else and they'll just have a different set problems" made her stay.

 

My opinion: Clingy is the precursor to controlling. It starts out with them just wanting to be in contact with you all the time, etc etc etc...And advances into NEEDING to know where you are at all times, what friends you were with, if you were REALLY at the grocery by yourself, etc.

[katiegrl]

But I see so many woman swooning over guys that anyone in the room can tell is an utter dickhead. -- Yes, and it's more than likely that they either feel that's what they deserve and/or those men resemble other male role models they've had. And, yes, it's their own fault on some level. But if they aren't mature and they haven't looked into themselves deeply enough to understand themselves, they don't have the ability to recognize or know the difference between good and bad dating partners. Until they can do that, it's not really about "fault" per se, they just aren't "there" yet.

 

And, everybody needs love. Not everybody needs an "outside" love. If they love themselves enough, the outside love they seek or gain only enhances their own. Emotionally healthy people don't really need someone else's love to be happy. If they are needing that kind of outside validation, they aren't strong, independent people who are entirely happy with themselves.

 

+1000....u posting some good stuff today RH.....

[Gaeta]

It's not always the dads.

 

My dating choices are well documented on here and I also go for the douches of this world. The answer is within me. My father was-is an amazing man, father and husband. I have never heard him raise his voice at my mom or anyone else. He was loving, honest, reliable, hard working, yet I keep picking men that are the complete opposite of him.

 

I think it's a phase and eventually it will pass.

[Redhead14]

This. This so much. It's funny because looking back, you can SEE them changing into their authentic self. The gentle decline. But at the time it's pretty subtle.

 

Even though those changes are subtle, you are observing them. And this is the time when you kinda hit the reset button. Oftentimes, when a person notices things changing, they become insecure and start becoming less objective in their observations. You need to get back to the middle and continue to observe whether the revelations they are making work for you or not. Some people will notice the changes but ignore them or they start making excuses for it. Glossing it over while ignoring whether it's working for them. Or over reacting.

[JaneyJ1991]

It's not always the dads.

 

My dating choices are well documented on here and I also go for the douches of this world. The answer is within me. My father was-is an amazing man, father and husband. I have never heard him raise his voice at my mom or anyone else. He was loving, honest, reliable, hard working, yet I keep picking men that are the complete opposite of him.

 

I think it's a phase and eventually it will pass.

 

 

It's true. And I can't blame my dad for me picking jerks. Me dating *******s is on me.

 

But I'm frustrated that I somehow do everything I can to NOT pick *******s, and somehow..it keeps happening. I change every variable I can think of to avoid them, and yet..These are the guys?

[SammySammy]

Is it possible there is something about the way you interact with men that encourages or brings out the jerk of them?

 

Self-fulfilling prophecy?

 

One of my former bosses likes men to get physical with her. She told me that she doesn't consider a man to be a "MAN" unless he's willing to do so. She said she got into physical fights with every man she's had a relationship with because she will provoke him until he grabs her and smacks her around. Otherwise, he's not good enough for her.

 

I wonder if we attract certain people into our lives because of subconscious thoughts and behaviors. If being a jerk may not be natural but a response to stimuli you're giving these men. A defense mechanism even.

[fitnessfan365]

My opinion: Clingy is the precursor to controlling. It starts out with them just wanting to be in contact with you all the time, etc etc etc...And advances into NEEDING to know where you are at all times, what friends you were with, if you were REALLY at the grocery by yourself, etc.

 

Haha.. I'm suddenly hearing that 80's song that goes "It always feels like, somebody's watching me,,and I get no privacy" playing in my head.

 

But clingy behavior is definitely something BOTH sexes are guilty of. It's especially bad with women I've met online. I mean these women want to text 24-7 before you even meet in person. It's pretty bad. However, I do think some guys encourage it by engaging them in texting marathons. If a woman texts me, I'll exchange 2-3 texts a piece with her, and then say I have to run. Pretend that it's a phone call with a dial tone..LOL

 

If a woman's been texting me first a lot, I'll actually call her. By slowly working phone calls from time to time, you get her in the habit of talking on the phone instead of texting. Phone calls are always shorter and actually have an end to them.

[Redhead14]

It's true. And I can't blame my dad for me picking jerks. Me dating *******s is on me.

 

But I'm frustrated that I somehow do everything I can to NOT pick *******s, and somehow..it keeps happening. I change every variable I can think of to avoid them, and yet..These are the guys?

 

It's not about blaming your dad. It's about leaving the past in the past and focusing on yourself and the moment. Once you do that entirely, you'll become centered in yourself.

 

It's not about variables. It's about the common denominator -- that remains constant -- You. There are nothing but variables after that. And, if by changing variables, you mean that you change your approach in dealing with dating partners. Don't do it. Have an approach and stick to it.

 

I want you to turn this around a little bit. I may be off with this, but let's just do a little digging.

 

It might help you to think about your role in those relationships with "assh**les". Are they really *******s or are you calling them *******s because they got through your initial screening criteria and then you stopped focusing on whether or not they were meeting your other needs? More or less, stringing yourself along until "reality" hit? Maybe you are focusing too much on the initial screening filters and losing sight of the fact that there is more to it for you. Apply your screening criteria and make sure you don't ignore other criteria. All I'm saying is don't just get through the initial phase and stop observing. Don't get on auto-pilot because they get through the initial stuff. It's not that they were all *******s, they just couldn't meet your needs. We get mad at them because they just weren't the ones.

 

Remember what we said about how on a conscious level you've been focusing on weeding out men who fit the "models" your father and mother presented to you but how it's possible that the deeper effects and feelings that are more subsconcious are still "there". Are you without even realizing it to doing some of the things your mom was/is doing? It's just food for thought.

 

This is part of what I mean about focusing on yourself more. You're focusing on the guys too much maybe.

Edited July 5, 2015 by Redhead14

[katiegrl]

It's true. And I can't blame my dad for me picking jerks. Me dating *******s is on me.

 

But I'm frustrated that I somehow do everything I can to NOT pick *******s, and somehow..it keeps happening. I change every variable I can think of to avoid them, and yet..These are the guys?

 

Janey, what are the things you do to avoid?

 

How do you react when they initially come on super strong....flattering you with compliments - you're so beautiful, blah blah?

 

Just today I read an article written by a "player" on how to spot a *player*. The number one strategy players use (to get early sex)....is to shower a woman with compliments, sincere or not, as they know most women respond positively to that and eat it up! Note they do this whether or not they are sincere. Their goal is sex, and the sooner the better.

 

So if a guy is laying it on thick with the compliments, while you may be flattered, it's a red flag.... so best to take it slow, or better move on.

 

Not saying YOU do respond to that, but if you do, being aware of these *strategies* will help in your quest to avoid.

 

Also, trust your gut! If something seems off....it most likely IS off!

 

Remember your thread about finding the condom under the bed?

 

Just sain.

Edited July 5, 2015 by katiegrl

[JaneyJ1991]

It's not about variables. It's about the common denominator -- that remains constant -- You. There are nothing but variables after that. And, if by changing variables, you mean that you change your approach in dealing with dating partners. Don't do it. Have an approach and stick to it.

 

I want you to turn this around a little bit. I may be off with this, but let's just do a little digging.

 

It might help you to think about your role in those relationships with "assh**les". Are they really *******s or are you calling them *******s because they got through your initial screening criteria and then you stopped focusing on whether or not they were meeting your other needs? More or less, stringing yourself along until "reality" hit? Maybe you are focusing too much on the initial screening filters and losing sight of the fact that there is more to it for you. Apply your screening criteria and make sure you don't ignore other criteria. All I'm saying is don't just get through the initial phase and stop observing. Don't get on auto-pilot because they get through the initial stuff. It's not that they were all *******s, they just couldn't meet your needs. We get mad at them because they just weren't the ones.

 

Are you without even realizing it to doing some of the things your mom was/is doing? It's just food for thought.

 

 

This could be a big part of it.

 

My initial screening usually includes: Are they violent when angry (ask, have they ever been in a fist fight, punched a wall, etc), are/have they been medicated for anything (I'm mostly concerned with antipsychotics/antidepressents--basically any sign of a mood disorder), when their last relationship ended (this is huuuuuge). Also, HAVE THEY EVER BEEN DUMPED (that has turned out to be a common denominator amongst my experience dating--a man never forgets a woman who dumps him. If anything, it seems they hold a candle for her after, and will come back to her at the drop of a hat.). You'd be surprised how easy these things are to weave into conversations. Listening for how they speak of their exes--because that correlates with how they take criticism, blame, and how they will later speak of YOU. I'm sure there's more I use to screen with, but that's all I can come up with right now.

Edited July 5, 2015 by JaneyJ1991

[JaneyJ1991]

I'm definitely NOT doing the things my mom was doing. I've always been curious why she picked HIM. My grandpa--her dad--was a GREAT dad (and grandpa) and an excellent example. He was wonderful to my grandma. I'm lucky to have got to see that. So I don't know why my mom picked my dad--she was popular, pretty and young. I honestly think she thought she could "fix" him. And we all know you don't change someone.

 

I've wondered if I somehow self-sabotage. But I don't think that's it. The one correlation I have noticed--The worse I am to a guy, the BETTER he is to me. And I don't understand that. It's like if I'm rude and demanding and nonchalant and treat them badly (I've literally done this as an experiment)..They treat me better. Better than how they are when I care and am considerate.

 

I don't do well with flattery, by the way. A guy calling me beautiful and complimenting me left and right off the bat would set me on red alert--Men aren't wired like that. A guy like that is fishing for something.

 

I would like to say the guys I'm calling *******s are just guys who simply didn't meet my needs in a relationship--like maybe we weren't compatible, or something, but that they were intrinsicly good guys deep down. No. Not these guys. I'm really not kidding. These guys screwing me over maneuvers have ranged from calling me fat (everyone knows this one) to having an ex resurface and leaving me for her, to talking a big game about how they care and one day just literally waking up and changing their mind.

 

There's also the side avenue of guy friends who SAY they're interested, but then never make an effort to try to make a move.

[mrnova]

It's a different issue if they change into an arsehole later down the line, I agree with that.

 

But I see so many woman swooning over guys that anyone in the room can tell is an utter dickhead. That is were I have no sympathy for the girl.

 

This isn't a case of me being sore that woman chase these guys instead of me, I'm happy being on my own and I don't need love in my life.

I agree. And how about these arrogant type of men. AKA... Been everywhere,Done everything, Seen everybodody,Got everything. Pretty much big mouths. And of most women eat that crap up. Must be. You hardly see theses arrogant types single. Mean while back at the ranch a good guy with substance is rejected.