True reconciliation - or just making sure the OW/OM doesn't "win". (Updated)

June 28, 2015

I watched Jerry Springer today for the first time actually - no lie.
It seemed to me the BWs there were determined to keep their man, whatever, just to stop the OW getting her claws into him.

I know Jerry Springer is all a set up, and over-dramatic trash television, but it made me think.

Are some BSs staying put, not solely because they love their man/woman, their kids, their life, their house, their "married" status etc. but also to make sure the other man/woman doesn't "win"?

Is "winning" enough of a drive to attempt reconciliation?
Is "winning" enough of a drive to override other concerns re the marriage?
Is the thought of the new man/new woman taking over their spousal role too much to bear, and anything is better than that?
Is there a gender split?
Are women or men more determined to keep their man/woman in the face of competition?
Can it sometimes be a hollow "victory"?

Oh, yes, I think some do, especially the ones who blame the OW/OM.

I see both genders doing it, no split.

But to be fair, many people feel that they have failed if their marriage ends, so they will fight to the death to keep the entity of marriage, not so much because of love for their spouse, which they proceed to despise and resent for the duration of their marriage, but hey, at least they kept the marriage intact, right?

June 28, 2015

I haven't seen many examples of someone staying married to "win" the WS. I have seen people stay parried to keep the WS under the thumb of punishment.

June 28, 2015

I haven't seen many examples of someone staying married to "win" the WS. I have seen people stay parried to keep the WS under the thumb of punishment.

How do they make these grown people stay for said punishment?

June 28, 2015

I haven't seen many examples of someone staying married to "win" the WS. I have seen people stay parried to keep the WS under the thumb of punishment.

I know it was a typing error but parrying may indeed be part of the reconciliation.

June 28, 2015

How do they make these grown people stay for said punishment?

Emotional blackmail, kids, status, finances...etc.

June 28, 2015

Emotional blackmail, kids, status, finances...etc.

They have no choice but to stay and suffer punishment?

June 28, 2015

They have no choice but to stay and suffer punishment?

It is a case of balance.

"I want x, so I have to put up with y."

I guess some WSs feel they need punished for cheating too, so can be a two way street.

The BS punishes the WS and the WS takes the punishment for mucking things up.

June 28, 2015

It is a case of balance.
"I want x, so I have to put up with y."

I guess some WSs feel they need punished for cheating too, so can be a two way street.
The BS punishes the WS and the WS takes the punishment for mucking things up.

Ten characters

June 28, 2015

They have no choice but to stay and suffer punishment?

When you are no longer an actual human because you have committed the only actual sin that counts, thereby relinquishing all your rights to humane treatment, you stay because you feel it is what you deserve.

And the above attitude is why ti works. because most BS's agree with my estimation of a WS.

June 28, 2015

When you are no longer an actual human because you have committed the only actual sin that counts, thereby relinquishing all your rights to humane treatment, you stay because you feel it is what you deserve.

And the above attitude is why ti works. because most BS's agree with my estimation of a WS.

Most betrayed spouses think that way? Really? I'm betrayed and never thought that. *********, absolutely! Maybe that's how you feel, you can't speak for others. If an adult stays for the treatment you describe (how do you even know), they have more internal issues they need to deal with that has nothing to do with their bs.

June 28, 2015

Most betrayed spouses think that way? Really? I'm betrayed and never thought that. *********, absolutely! Maybe that's how you feel, you can't speak for others. If an adult stays for the treatment you describe (how do you even know), they have more internal issues they need to deal with that has nothing to do with their bs.

Yes of course....anything to avoid stating that a BS might be cruel or unreasonable years later.

June 28, 2015

If an adult stays for the treatment you describe (how do you even know), they have more internal issues they need to deal with that has nothing to do with their bs.

Yes, but the other factors I mentioned can be powerful drivers to stay in an imperfect situation. So any single person with no ties, who stays put and get punished daily we can say definitely has some internal issues.

BUT is it not understandable if the driver to stay is to get daily access to your children for instance or to maintain the respect of your community, your friends and neighbours?

June 28, 2015

Yes, but the other factors I mentioned can be powerful drivers to stay in an imperfect situation. So any single person with no ties, who stays put and get punished daily we can say definitely has some internal issues.
BUT is it not understandable if the driver to stay is to get daily access to your children for instance or to maintain the respect of your community, your friends and neighbours?

Elaine, the only sin that matters is cheating. If you do it, then you cannot complain. If you leave the mistreatment then you weren't remorseful. If you stay, then you only have yourself to blame. It's a neat little package actually.

June 28, 2015

Yes of course....anything to avoid stating that a BS might be cruel or unreasonable years later.

Where did I say that? Again how do you even know? With all your forgiveness why aren't you with your ws?

June 28, 2015

Elaine, the only sin that matters is cheating. If you do it, then you cannot complain. If you leave the mistreatment then you weren't remorseful. If you stay, then you only have yourself to blame. It's a neat little package actually.

Your thoughts only. Please don't speak for other betrayeds.

June 28, 2015

Where did I say that? Again how do you even know? With all your forgiveness why aren't you with your ws?

I was not married to the person who cheated on me, so I would not even begin to compare my pain to a married person's. I do not think everyone should forgive. I think, however, if one is not going to forgive and actually have a real, loving marriage, one should divorce. Not stay and play the martyr. And I am not talking about the first few years. I mean 5,7,10 years down the road.

June 28, 2015

I was not married to the person who cheated on me, so I would not even begin to compare my pain to a married person's. I do not think everyone should forgive. I think, however, if one is not going to forgive and actually have a real, loving marriage, one should divorce. Not stay and play the martyr. And I am not talking about the first few years. I mean 5,7,10 years down the road.

How do you know what really goes on, that's all I ask?

June 28, 2015

How do you know what really goes on, that's all I ask?

I know a couple of examples IRL, and I have to say....there is no way some of the BS's I have seen on forums can NOT be treating their FWS's like crap on a shoe if half of what they post years later is true. You cannot rant about how horrible your spouse has made your life and how tainted they are etc etc and NOT be exhibiting that same contempt at home. If you are still that disgusted by your spouse 10 years later, then divorce already. You are with them because you are getting something out of it...and that something seems like it isn't something to be proud of.

And that you isn't you you...it's the universal you. And, if the reason someone is that angry 10 years down the line is because the WS hasn't done the work, that is even more reason to leave. Because a WS who hasn't changed would be a nightmare.

I also know IRL couple who have truly reconciled. It is years later, they went through lots of work and counseling, and the A is a non-issue. They aren't still reliving it on a regular basis because their lives have moved on. They view each other as loving and equal spouses, not "BS and "WS". THAT is reconciliation.

June 28, 2015

I know a couple of examples IRL, and I have to say....there is no way some of the BS's I have seen on forums can NOT be treating their FWS's like crap on a shoe if half of what they post years later is true. You cannot rant about how horrible your spouse has made your life and how tainted they are etc etc and NOT be exhibiting that same contempt at home. If you are still that disgusted by your spouse 10 years later, then divorce already. You are with them because you are getting something out of it...and that something seems like it isn't something to be proud of.

And that you isn't you you...it's the universal you. And, if the reason someone is that angry 10 years down the line is because the WS hasn't done the work, that is even more reason to leave. Because a WS who hasn't changed would be a nightmare.

I also know IRL couple who have truly reconciled. It is years later, they went through lots of work and counseling, and the A is a non-issue. They aren't still reliving it on a regular basis because their lives have moved on. They view each other as loving and equal spouses, not "BS and "WS". THAT is reconciliation.

A forum could be their place to vent so that the ws doesn't get it. You speak a lot about not judging but seriously you do judge the bs a lot.

June 28, 2015

A forum could be their place to vent so that the ws doesn't get it. You speak a lot about not judging but seriously you do judge the bs a lot.

I think a BS has been dealt the crappiest hand a person can be dealt. They have been betrayed by the one person they should be able to trust implicitly. They were left out of a deceitful, life altering decision that was pure selfishness on the WS part. The WS took the marriage vows and decided they "deserved" to poop all over them.

That pain is...well, I cannot imagine. I curled up in my shower and sobbed until I was sick, and mine was only a dating relationship. I can;t fathom how crushing it would be in a marriage. I don't know how a BS even looks at the WS after D-Day. And yet some BS have the desire and drive and unique strength to actually try to rebuild. In the midst of their pain, they actually are willing to make the effort to put a marriage back together after someone ELSE's reckless act destroyed it.

I don;t know how a BS survives that first year. It's got to be like a death. Maybe, after that first year, there can begin to be a light at the end of the tunnel. Maybe if the WS is working their butt off and being transparent, they can start to try to breathe again. After a couple of years, maybe a BS can start to think about actually loving their FWS in some kind of real, partially trusting sense again? I don't know.

At some point, though, years out, surely a choice has to be made. It is an unfair choice no spouse should have to make. But the A has to either remain the central theme of the marriage....or there has to be some letting go. I can certainly understand not letting go. But in that case, why not divorce? And if divorce is not an option, why not try to let go? I cannot imagine the torture of being married to someone I cannot ever respect, trust, love, or stand to look at. But if someone feels that way about their spouse and chooses to remain, there has to be some reason. I just don;t think reconcilation is that reason.

If someone is staying because they have no other option or because they don't want their WS to move on either, I can understand that completely. Just don't call it reconciliation.

And that is why I couldn't consider ever being with that man again. I could never look at him the same, so the obvious solution was not...not have to look at him. But again comparing my thing to a marriage is like comparing a paper cut to an amputation.

June 28, 2015

And now I should probably bow out because I'm probably pushing my luck already.

June 28, 2015

I think a BS has been dealt the crappiest hand a person can be dealt. They have been betrayed by the one person they should be able to trust implicitly. They were left out of a deceitful, life altering decision that was pure selfishness on the WS part. The WS took the marriage vows and decided they "deserved" to poop all over them.

That pain is...well, I cannot imagine. I curled up in my shower and sobbed until I was sick, and mine was only a dating relationship. I can;t fathom how crushing it would be in a marriage. I don't know how a BS even looks at the WS after D-Day. And yet some BS have the desire and drive and unique strength to actually try to rebuild. In the midst of their pain, they actually are willing to make the effort to put a marriage back together after someone ELSE's reckless act destroyed it.

I don;t know how a BS survives that first year. It's got to be like a death. Maybe, after that first year, there can begin to be a light at the end of the tunnel. Maybe if the WS is working their butt off and being transparent, they can start to try to breathe again. After a couple of years, maybe a BS can start to think about actually loving their FWS in some kind of real, partially trusting sense again? I don't know.

At some point, though, years out, surely a choice has to be made. It is an unfair choice no spouse should have to make. But the A has to either remain the central theme of the marriage....or there has to be some letting go. I can certainly understand not letting go. But in that case, why not divorce? And if divorce is not an option, why not try to let go? I cannot imagine the torture of being married to someone I cannot ever respect, trust, love, or stand to look at. But if someone feels that way about their spouse and chooses to remain, there has to be some reason. I just don;t think reconcilation is that reason.

If someone is staying because they have no other option or because they don't want their WS to move on either, I can understand that completely. Just don't call it reconciliation.

And that is why I couldn't consider ever being with that man again. I could never look at him the same, so the obvious solution was not...not have to look at him. But again comparing my thing to a marriage is like comparing a paper cut to an amputation.

I 100%, totally and completely, agree with every word. Not to minimize what you went through though, betrayal by a loved one is painful no matter what.

This is why I think you're awesome AN, even when we disagree. And you really encapsulated how I feel about my xWW; I never want to have to look at her ever again. I have to on occasion since we have a daughter together, but I minimize it as much as possible.

You're a smart lady.

June 28, 2015

I 100%, totally and completely, agree with every word. Not to minimize what you went through though, betrayal by a loved one is painful no matter what.

This is why I think you're awesome AN, even when we disagree. And you really encapsulated how I feel about my xWW; I never want to have to look at her ever again. I have to on occasion since we have a daughter together, but I minimize it as much as possible.

You're a smart lady.

I am not awesome. I am a very very imperfect person who tries not to be all or nothing about anything and look at things through more than one lens. It gets me into trouble sometimes...

But thank you so much for your kind words.

I stayed married to someone who didn't know how to love me for a long time. After all the dust had settled, I finally had to admit something - for part of the time I stayed, part of my...survival? technique was to remind myself how unselfish I was for staying with a cold man who couldn't keep a job. How much nicer I was for taking care of a man who didn't take care of me. His faults fueled my sense of being "better." That was a humi9liating thing to have to admit. But honestly, I think it is part of the reason I stayed longer than i should have. If I couldn't have a happy marriage, if I couldn't trust him to love me, I could at least make sure we all remembered his flaws.

So sadly, I can understand that unhealthy thinking.

June 28, 2015

I am not awesome. I am a very very imperfect person who tries not to be all or nothing about anything and look at things through more than one lens. It gets me into trouble sometimes...

But thank you so much for your kind words.

I stayed married to someone who didn't know how to love me for a long time. After all the dust had settled, I finally had to admit something - for part of the time I stayed, part of my...survival? technique was to remind myself how unselfish I was for staying with a cold man who couldn't keep a job. How much nicer I was for taking care of a man who didn't take care of me. His faults fueled my sense of being "better." That was a humi9liating thing to have to admit. But honestly, I think it is part of the reason I stayed longer than i should have. If I couldn't have a happy marriage, if I couldn't trust him to love me, I could at least make sure we all remembered his flaws.

So sadly, I can understand that unhealthy thinking.

Yep, you are awesome. You have lost and yet your ability for love and compassion have deepened. You are not more shallow and you are not less whole.

Autumn, you are stronger, kinder and your capacity to love and be loved is better than ever.

You're awesome.

edit: Saying this as a person who has lost a deeply loved spouse to cancer and I know that losing someone close can bring a person to a fork in the road. Not everyone who loses people they love becomes a more loving and kind soul.

Edited June 28, 2015 by Timshel

June 28, 2015

Yep, you are awesome. You have lost and yet your ability for love and compassion have deepened. You are not more shallow and you are not less whole.
Autumn, you are stronger, kinder and your capacity to love and be loved is better than ever.
You're awesome.

edit: Saying this as a person who has lost a deeply loved spouse to cancer and I know that losing someone close can bring a person to a fork in the road. Not everyone who loses people they love becomes a more loving and kind soul.

I know what it is to be the object of vindictiveness. I never wanted to become that myself.

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True reconciliation - or just making sure the OW/OM doesn't "win". (Updated)

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