smackie9 Posted June 24, 2015 Posted June 24, 2015 Come to think of it, if I was out of work, living at my mom's, rolling in debt due to a messy divorce....getting into a serious relationship would be my last priority. I would be focusing on getting my life back on track. 4
BluEyeL Posted June 24, 2015 Posted June 24, 2015 I'd hold off on the marriage for at least 2-3 years. You can move in together if you wish, but no merger of finances. Money issues and too many kids can lead to a second divorce. Wait for the kids to graduate, at least yours and then if things are still going great, you can get married then.
carhill Posted June 24, 2015 Posted June 24, 2015 Come to think of it, if I was out of work, living at my mom's, rolling in debt due to a messy divorce....getting into a serious relationship would be my last priority. I would be focusing on getting my life back on track. This sounds reasonable and perhaps is part and parcel of a man who is good -for- women; this man, apparently engaged once before, about a year after his divorce, and with further relationships in the interim, all while being bankrupt and living at his parents and attending to his child care and support issues, is good -with- women. There is a difference. Since the man has apparently asked the OP to marry him, I'd have to ask the OP what, specifically, is the man's plan for resolving this financial inequity. Since marriage is a legal partnership, all cards should be on the table, including financial ones. The OP mentioned a pre-nup. Cool. Working through the preliminaries on that should provide marked insight into the health or not, of this potential partnership and how to resolve the inequities the OP perceives.
Gaeta Posted June 24, 2015 Posted June 24, 2015 Come to think of it, if I was out of work, living at my mom's, rolling in debt due to a messy divorce....getting into a serious relationship would be my last priority. I would be focusing on getting my life back on track. If I were in this man's situation I would be too ashame to date anyone and I would not be thinking of sex and romance. I would use my free time to get a 3rd job and get myself out of trouble. This man asking OP to marry him while he is living under his mother's roof at his age is a joke. Where is his man pride? how does he even get it up? OP wake up. Kind and nice won't help pay the bills and his kindness will get old pretty fast. This man is sending me huge 'parasite' vibes. 2
smackie9 Posted June 24, 2015 Posted June 24, 2015 This man is sending me huge 'parasite' vibes. Me too!!! What better way to have a better life than to find a woman to feel sorry for him, so he can hop onto the gravy train. I suspect there is a repeat reason why there is failure in his past relationships. 1
Gaeta Posted June 24, 2015 Posted June 24, 2015 And he's talking marriage after 6 months while she is still hot and smitten for him. In another year dating she won't find him so endearing. Also, I am never impressed by men that chose to spend only 20% of time with his children. He is 50% parent of those children he should be putting in 50% of the time with them. That would also cut his custody to her by a lot of money. I read laziness here. Part time market job? Photography freelancing? How about 40-50 hours a week in a manufacture? or in a warehouse? landscaping ? they hire around the clock and he would bring in a real paycheck. 3
smackie9 Posted June 24, 2015 Posted June 24, 2015 I would feel the same way if it were a woman...no excuse to sit on your ass and seek out a meal ticket.
Author Goodbye Posted June 25, 2015 Author Posted June 25, 2015 Goodbye, I think it's commendable that you are thinking things through and not rushing to judgement. He sounds like a good guy who has been through a tough time and is doing his best to bounce back... and he's doing more than required to support his kids. He treats you well, is honest and sincere. If the genders were reversed and it was a woman going through a rough time financially nobody would blink an eye about the man paying for vacation or picking up the restaurant checks most of the time. This attitude of entitlement that some female posters display, where the woman deserves to be rescued while a man in the exact shame situation should be kicked to the curb, only reveals their own dearth of character and sense of fairness. They play victim and wave the women's equality banner when it suits them, and revert to the entitlement attitude when it doesn't. Don't be one of those women. I think you need to separate the practical issues from the emotions and feeling and get in touch with how you genuinely feel about each, then make some rational choices. First, decide how you really feel about this man and whether you're in favor of getting married, finances notwithstanding. Then look at the finances and work on a plan together that will allow you to live an acceptable lifestyle. As long as you believe in his resiliency and determination I don't see why any reasonable person would revile him because of a temporary situation. It's not at all unusual for divorce to result in financial hardship and bankruptcy. Marry for love and character. Solve problems as necessary before and during. It's unfortunate, but it really could happen to anyone. I do think of this. When I first met my exH I was a graduate student with no money...just debt. He paid for everything during our dating. He paid off my school loan when we got married. Nobody batted an eye...It was the "right" thing to do to most people. There is definitely a gender bias when it comes to spending money on a partner. I guess my former situation seemed more "normal" to me because I was young and just starting out. I guess I have more empathy for his situation because my own divorce was BRUTAL and costly and had I not had the double fortune of a decent settlement and a great new job, I could be in a similar position to his. I just need to give it time. Reevaluate in 6 months. I'm not good at sitting with indecision. 2
Author Goodbye Posted June 25, 2015 Author Posted June 25, 2015 I would feel the same way if it were a woman...no excuse to sit on your ass and seek out a meal ticket. True. But, I am hoping I am not just a meal ticket. I'm a fairly dynamic person and don't generally attract complete morons. It does need time to see if this is viable. In the meantime, I obviously will not cohabitate of share finances. 1
Author Goodbye Posted June 25, 2015 Author Posted June 25, 2015 And he's talking marriage after 6 months while she is still hot and smitten for him. In another year dating she won't find him so endearing. Also, I am never impressed by men that chose to spend only 20% of time with his children. He is 50% parent of those children he should be putting in 50% of the time with them. That would also cut his custody to her by a lot of money. I read laziness here. Part time market job? Photography freelancing? How about 40-50 hours a week in a manufacture? or in a warehouse? landscaping ? they hire around the clock and he would bring in a real paycheck. I agree that we are still in the "in love" phase which clouds judgement. Waiting for the newness "hormones" to die down will bring clarity. I'm not good with waiting, but am learning to be.
Author Goodbye Posted June 25, 2015 Author Posted June 25, 2015 I'd hold off on the marriage for at least 2-3 years. You can move in together if you wish, but no merger of finances. Money issues and too many kids can lead to a second divorce. Wait for the kids to graduate, at least yours and then if things are still going great, you can get married then. In my state he'd be entitled to a share of my home if we officially cohabited. 2
carhill Posted June 25, 2015 Posted June 25, 2015 Situations vary but here in Cali where RE can be stratospheric in price, myself and numerous folks I know own RE through LLC's and land trusts. Hence, one can pay 'rent' to the LLC or trust and be a tenant, as one scenario. An estate planning or business lawyer will have more information. Last one I did cost about 1% of the asset value, though that is anecdotal, since the process is relatively fixed across asset lines and values. Since you're taking your time here, there is plenty of time to investigate estate planning options which protect your interests in the case of cohabitation or marriage.
smackie9 Posted June 25, 2015 Posted June 25, 2015 In my state he'd be entitled to a share of my home if we officially cohabited. It's the same in Canada. Since so many live common law, they changed the laws and treat it no different than being married.....shared estate AND debt. Even if he was working a better job and got himself together.....his situation with his wife and child support isn't going to change for the better. ***Prenup even if you were to live together would be the smart thing to do. You didn't work hard to be where you are at for nothing eh? You need to protect yourself. 1
BluEyeL Posted June 25, 2015 Posted June 25, 2015 OK, my state doesn't have the common law marriage. In this case, I would wait until the kids are out of the house (yours) and he gets a stable job. Date living separately. What's your rush? Research shows that most of the unions where kids are invovled, especially teens, tend to fail at a very high rate. I've been dating my BF for 1 year now and I have a teenage son. If we still love each other then, we will move in together when my son graduates high school. That is, 5 years from now. If we are to last, we'll last the 5 years and beyond. If not, mixing together households, teenage problems and toilet seats left up will not help things along anyway. This way I get to parent the way I want, with no interference, and I get not to do his laundry and clean his house, and he gets to go home when parenting issues blow up and not contribute to raising a kid that's not his. Everyone is happy. Here, I make the less amount of money, although I make six figures myself and I own my house. Often, rushing things has more of a practical than a "love" reasoning behind it. It seems to me that your BF has an interest that relates to finances and this is why he pushes for marriage. Not (only) in terms of amount of money, but being married to you rather than bankrupt living with parents, would give him a better image of himself, as a upstanding, married person. Then he can afford to do freelance and occasional work and still see himself as not a loser. If I were him, I would also want to get married asap, as a way to get out of the hole I am currently in. I see him in a crappy situation and you like a ticket out of that.
salparadise Posted June 25, 2015 Posted June 25, 2015 I do think of this. When I first met my exH I was a graduate student with no money...just debt. He paid for everything during our dating. He paid off my school loan when we got married. Nobody batted an eye...It was the "right" thing to do to most people. There is definitely a gender bias when it comes to spending money on a partner. I guess my former situation seemed more "normal" to me because I was young and just starting out. I guess I have more empathy for his situation because my own divorce was BRUTAL and costly and had I not had the double fortune of a decent settlement and a great new job, I could be in a similar position to his. I just need to give it time. Reevaluate in 6 months. I'm not good at sitting with indecision. Smart woman, good judgement, reasonable expectations, in touch with the emotional side and practicalities... don't change any of that. You're far ahead of the ones that exhibit the gender biased attitude of entitlement and expectation of lifestyle upgrade as the price of their affections.
BlueIris Posted June 25, 2015 Posted June 25, 2015 (edited) I just need to give it time. Reevaluate in 6 months. I'm not good at sitting with indecision. I’d decide now. There are other issues about him and how he acts that are enough to decide to date someone who fits you and your life and values better. I don’t think this guy is good marriage material at all, and he wouldn’t be even if he were a woman, so this is not about gender disparity or being “fair.” ~ He jumps into serious relationships quickly, wants to rush to marriage in each of them, and uses template speech. When you discovered this, he erased the “evidence.” ~ He doesn’t have a stable career and income stream, and remains in a temp marketing position and freelancing rather than reeducating to make a steady income for the next 20-30 years of his life and provide for himself. Any adult, male or female, would expect to have to support himself or herself for many years to come, unless they’re betting on marrying and being supported. Also, why does he keep getting fired? ~ He was ordered to pay his exW’s attorneys fees which is sometimes because he took unreasonable positions in the divorce. He ended up with minimal parenting time and his kids’ time with him would also be time with their grandparents, extended family, so it would theoretically be good for the kids. He works less than full time so I’d think he would have at least 50/50. His kids are standoffish- how did that come about? His child support keeps being adjusted downward due to his unemployment but then he claims that he pays more than ordered. Child support doesn’t get adjusted downward without a motion requesting a change. There’s something not right about this picture. ~ You can’t travel like you normally do for fear of hurting his feelings. This wouldn’t get better if you married or lived together. ~ Due to his financial situation, you don’t go out as much as you normally would, but you end up cooking for him. If he’s financially strapped, I’d think that he would cook for you. It sounds as though you work more than he does, too, so why isn’t he making meals? Hasn’t he noticed that you get home from work and cook for him? Who feeds his kids when he has even his minimal parenting time? Marry for love and character. Solve problems as necessary before and during. It's unfortunate, but it really could happen to anyone. I agree with this, however one’s character can not be determined in a short period of time and one’s character is reflected in their actions over time- how we live, work, make and sustain relationships in and out of our family and work, and how much responsibility we take for our own lives. This guy seems essentially irresponsible. When I did OLD, I ran across some poor or financially unlucky people. The funny thing was that some of them never seemed to date people who were equally as poor or financially unlucky as themselves. They'd say that love overrides things like that, but if that were true, wouldn't they also date people who were in the same situation they are? Edited to add: I wonder how he would react if you suggested a wedding date 12 months after your youngest graduates high school. Edited June 25, 2015 by BlueIris 2
salparadise Posted June 25, 2015 Posted June 25, 2015 I’d decide now. [...] I don’t think this guy is good marriage material at all... ~ He doesn’t have a stable career and income stream... ~ He was ordered to pay his exW’s attorneys fees... ~ You can’t travel like you normally do... ~ Due to his financial situation... In other words, he's short on cash and that's all you'd need to know to cut him loose. What you aren't considering is that the OP actually cares about him as a person and is factoring that into the equation. What I hear you saying is that he's not a good financial investment - if the guy had a trust fund none of the other stuff would matter. Chalk up one more with the entitlement/lifestyle upgrade mentality. Sheesh- are you all really that blind to it all, or is it pure, justifiable entitlement.
BlueIris Posted June 25, 2015 Posted June 25, 2015 In other words, he's short on cash and that's all you'd need to know to cut him loose. What you aren't considering is that the OP actually cares about him as a person and is factoring that into the equation. What I hear you saying is that he's not a good financial investment - if the guy had a trust fund none of the other stuff would matter. Chalk up one more with the entitlement/lifestyle upgrade mentality. Sheesh- are you all really that blind to it all, or is it pure, justifiable entitlement. You edited out all of the "character" points. Why’d you do that? It’s laughable that I date to upgrade financially or that I feel entitled to a partner’s financial support. Judging from their posting histories, some of the women who are sounding alarm bells for OP’s sake (or affirming the alarm bells she heard and that prompted her to post) are not entitled up-graders either. If you knew my life history, you might be very confused because I don’t fit your pigeonhole. There are plenty of over-40 men and women who live like OP's BF does, but there are many who do not and are responsible. If you’re one of the responsible ones, be wise about the hard cold fact that there are many who are not. 1
BluEyeL Posted June 25, 2015 Posted June 25, 2015 All I personally say is that time will tell who the partners really are, and one should wait 2-3 years of dating before moving in or getting married, no matter who has money and who doesn't. In that time, you get to know the real partner and also you don't make decisions under the influence of the drugs of the initial love phase. IMO at 6 months in you are impaired, not judging clearly. You don't want to end up twice divorced and broke. 3
smackie9 Posted June 25, 2015 Posted June 25, 2015 How is financial stability expectation an entitlement? What experience have you had? Have you had long term relationships? have you been married to the same person for 25 years??? I doubt it. You have no clue what it REALLY takes to have and to keep a relationship/marriage strong. Financial stability is not the only aspect, but it is a key one that cannot be ignored. Like I said it's not a crime to realize "This isn't working for me" and find something that does. 1
123321 Posted June 25, 2015 Posted June 25, 2015 The concept of being forced to support a person who is a fully functional adult (assuming that person didn't cripple their earning ability for the sake of a shared relationship goal) is fundamentally broken.
Timshel Posted June 25, 2015 Posted June 25, 2015 I have been married twice. One divorce, one death. Neither have had equal wealth as me. They were both hardworking and honest men so that was no bother to me or my family. My money has always been protected in Trust. In the divorce, I was able to walk away, ask for nothing and leave him with all assets. There isn't any way that I would enter a marriage with a man that could strip my children's financial stability. Fortunately, that has been carefully protected by my family and lawyers before I was even old enough to date. I would wait quite some time before considering cohabitation or marriage if either could cause financial problems or issues in the relationship. The whole idea of long term romantic partnership is teamwork and equality. Not necessarily of a monetary sense. More the foundation of trust that both have the same sense of commitment, goals and values. 4
Gaeta Posted June 25, 2015 Posted June 25, 2015 Although this thread is titled Financial inequity it is not what got me worried. What is getting me to raise an eyebrow here is: * Working part time - spending his free time doing what? * Living at his parents at his age * Paying full child support instead of taking on half their custody * Rushing into a marriage while he cannot even sustain himself on his own. 1
salparadise Posted June 25, 2015 Posted June 25, 2015 (edited) You edited out all of the "character" points. Why’d you do that? It’s laughable that I date to upgrade financially or that I feel entitled to a partner’s financial support. Judging from their posting histories, some of the women who are sounding alarm bells for OP’s sake (or affirming the alarm bells she heard and that prompted her to post) are not entitled up-graders either. If you knew my life history, you might be very confused because I don’t fit your pigeonhole. There are plenty of over-40 men and women who live like OP's BF does, but there are many who do not and are responsible. If you’re one of the responsible ones, be wise about the hard cold fact that there are many who are not. You were using his financial condition as evidence of character flaws. I don't see the OP doing that, and I commend her for taking a cautious but less judgmental posture. I wasn't talking about your personal history - just the jaded perspective the OPs situation. Edited June 25, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
smackie9 Posted June 25, 2015 Posted June 25, 2015 That is why the OP is questioning things.....she is starting to see beyond the trees.
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