Just asking............. (updated)

June 22, 2015

I could be wrong, but I think a lot of OW/OM just kind of...blind themselves to the BS altogether. They just don't think about it. They focus on their feelings for the MM/MW and try not to think about how it might affect the BS.

There are some OW, however, who just flat do not care, think they are entitled to whatever man they want, and seem to really have no conscience. That must be a sad way to live, and one wonders how capable of true, selfless love they can be.

There's a difference between sympathy and guilt. To me, the latter presumes responsibility, whereas the former requires empathy. They're not inextricably linked.

June 22, 2015

There's a difference between sympathy and guilt. To me, the latter presumes responsibility, whereas the former requires empathy. They're not inextricably linked.

I'm not so sure. It seems disingenuous to claim sympathy for a woman's hurt when you are knowingly enabling and participating in that hurt.

Like saying, I feel really bad that her husband is hitting her with a hammer, while you hold her down so he can keep hitting her. Yeah, I guess technically you aren't hitting, but let's get real....

June 22, 2015

There are some OW, however, who just flat do not care, think they are entitled to whatever man they want, and seem to really have no conscience. That must be a sad way to live, and one wonders how capable of true, selfless love they can be.

There are even some (and I know this for a fact with women and suspect that we specialize in it more than men) who absolutely take pride in it and consider married scores as accomplishments. Sometimes even to the point of breaking up marriages (accidentally-deliberately, just bc they can), and then as likely or more often than not just walking away from the wreckage.

June 22, 2015

There are even some (and I know this for a fact with women and suspect that we specialize in it more than men) who absolutely take pride in it and consider married scores as accomplishments. Sometimes even to the point of breaking up marriages (accidentally-deliberately, just bc they can), and then as likely or more often than not just walking away from the wreckage.

Yes, agreed, there may well be some like that, but in all honesty, I think they are few and far between....

June 22, 2015

I got a shock to see so many replies when I got up this morning.

I know he has a lot of contacts on his phone and had messaged a lot of women online.........yes he could have said that I was a **** wife and all that and that does make me sad to say the least. I am only guessing tho.

at the end of the day they know he is married (was) and obviously those ones don't care one bit.

the thing is - I bet he didn't tell them all the good stuff ae........never under the thumb, had all he wanted, able to spend thousands on what his hobby was, used our savings for a trip to USA with mates (which I had no qualms about).

Two kids - great kids. now they don't really talk to him much......with that being said he has been to busy with his own thing and had not made contact with them for nearly a month before seeing them the other day.

so reading these posts, I have been helped - thank you. most don't feel any responsibility to the wife and I get that - its basically on the WH feeding them what he wants them to know?

wishing you all a good day and thanks.

June 22, 2015

I'm not so sure. It seems disingenuous to claim sympathy for a woman's hurt when you are knowingly enabling and participating in that hurt.

Like saying, I feel really bad that her husband is hitting her with a hammer, while you hold her down so he can keep hitting her. Yeah, I guess technically you aren't hitting, but let's get real....

No, I don't see it that way. At all. I am not participating in her hurt. I am not holding her down. I am the salesclerk at the store where the husband purchased his hammer. If it wasn't my store, it would be another. His hurt of her is not contingent on my involvement.

June 22, 2015

No, I don't see it that way. At all. I am not participating in her hurt. I am not holding her down. I am the salesclerk at the store where the husband purchased his hammer. If it wasn't my store, it would be another. His hurt of her is not contingent on my involvement.

Absolutely and wholeheartedly disagree. You did participate. YOUR actions impact others. And this is just really mental gymnastics to absolve you of any wrongdoing. You are accountable for your own actions and how they have to propensity to hurt others.

Who cares if it would have been someone else. It wasn't. It was you. Own it.

June 22, 2015

Absolutely and wholeheartedly disagree. You did participate. YOUR actions impact others. And this is just really mental gymnastics to absolve you of any wrongdoing. You are accountable for your own actions and how they have to propensity to hurt others.

Who cares if it would have been someone else. It wasn't. It was you. Own it.

I will not own something I'm not responsible for. Ownership lies solely with the MM.

I'm not absolving myself of responsibility, I'm just limiting my responsibility to myself and my integrity, not another couple's relationship.

June 22, 2015

Taking my own H out of the equation for this point...

I own the fact that I participated in an action that hurt another person, MM's wife.

If I had made a different choice, and not gotten involved with a MM, I wouldn't have taken that action and thus would not have hurt another human being, his wife.

Yes, the MM is responsible for his own actions. By MY action, getting involved with him, also hurt the same person (his wife), and that is something that I now regret.

June 22, 2015

I will not own something I'm not responsible for. Ownership lies solely with the MM.

I'm not absolving myself of responsibility, I'm just limiting my responsibility to myself and my integrity, not another couple's relationship.

Look, I was an OW too. All I'm saying applies to me also. But if you want to grow and learn you need to get real about this.

No, you are not responsible for their relationship. I didn't say you were.

What I said was you are responsible for your actions and how they hurt other human beings. You had an affair with a man who was committed to someone else. You could have walked away but you decided you wanted him, wife and kids be damned. You did participate in hurting her when you went down that road. He didn't have an affair on his own. He didn't have sex with himself. He had a willing participant. And you can't separate your actions from the potential impact they have. Actions have consequences. Your actions had the propensity to tear apart a family and a Marriage. What you did doesn't happen in a vacuum. For every action there is a reaction, and by refusing to face that, you are in denial.

The fact is that we both had choices - and we chose to participate in activities that could could potentially cause pain for other people.

June 22, 2015

Taking my own H out of the equation for this point...

I own the fact that I participated in an action that hurt another person, MM's wife.

If I had made a different choice, and not gotten involved with a MM, I wouldn't have taken that action and thus would not have hurt another human being, his wife.

Yes, the MM is responsible for his own actions. By MY action, getting involved with him, also hurt the same person (his wife), and that is something that I now regret.

Perhaps I don't feel the need to own hurt because I honestly do not believe it has occurred. (Yet? If ever?)

I accept enough self-flagellation over what I did to myself.

June 22, 2015

Perhaps I don't feel the need to own hurt because I honestly do not believe it has occurred. (Yet? If ever?)

I accept enough self-flagellation over what I did to myself.

You've already hurt her - she just doesn't know it yet.

June 23, 2015

You've already hurt her - she just doesn't know it yet.

Or maybe ever.

He's a petrified weenie. He's going to move heaven and earth for a woman to make sure his family stays intact, and that woman is his wife.

June 23, 2015

Or maybe ever.

He's a petrified weenie. He's going to move heaven and earth for a woman to make sure his family stays intact, and that woman is his wife.

Perhaps im missing the point - but isn't that the way it's supposed to be? Of course having An affair is counter intuitive, but he's committed to her and his family. Isn't that the right thing to do?

June 23, 2015

Perhaps im missing the point - but isn't that the way it's supposed to be? Of course having An affair is counter intuitive, but he's committed to her and his family. Isn't that the right thing to do?

Yes, but it's all for the wrong reasons.

It's not Unconditional love, it's cowardice and the fear of 'losing' face...

June 23, 2015

Or maybe ever.

He's a petrified weenie. He's going to move heaven and earth for a woman to make sure his family stays intact, and that woman is his wife.

So what was the purpose of starting a relationship with a man that never intends to leave his wife for you? Where did you expect the relationship to go? Why would you waste all that time for another woman's part time husband? Wouldn't you want someone in your life who is only committed to you and who's availability doesn't depend on another woman's schedule?

Like you, I no longer believe in marriage but even so I would never compromise my boundaries nor would I break up a family because I don't respect other peoples boundaries.

June 23, 2015

i am gutted,

I can't tell you the reason why all OWs get into affairs with MM but I can tell you my scenario.

The OW on my sitch worked for my exH. She was 10+ years younger than him.

I believe she was damaged goods. Her mother (who she lived with) had divorced her father for cruelty. At the time she (OW) embarked on the affair her mother was in the process of divorcing her 2nd husband - also for cruelty/abuse.

So for half her life she's had no father figure and the rest of the time the father-figure she had was cruel and abusive. Her skewed view of marriage was where the woman got hurt.

She was engaged to a very nice chap (I actually knew him but didn't realise he was her fiance). He thought the world of her.

However, psychologists will tell you that we gravitate towards what is familiar in relationships. She wasn't happy with him, because he was "too nice".

When my exH took an interest in her he was everything she wanted. He seemed strong, in control, older, wiser, someone she could feel secure with. (All the reasons that originally attracted me to him)

He played her like a fish, kept her waiting for 'phone calls, ignored her at work while telling her he loved her in private, bad-mouthed me to get the sympathy vote, etc.

I believe she was a sad, broken, needy person, who had had bad role models.

However, that didn't excuse her part in the affair.

June 23, 2015

I got a shock to see so many replies when I got up this morning.

I know he has a lot of contacts on his phone and had messaged a lot of women online.........yes he could have said that I was a **** wife and all that and that does make me sad to say the least. I am only guessing tho.
at the end of the day they know he is married (was) and obviously those ones don't care one bit.

the thing is - I bet he didn't tell them all the good stuff ae........never under the thumb, had all he wanted, able to spend thousands on what his hobby was, used our savings for a trip to USA with mates (which I had no qualms about).

Two kids - great kids. now they don't really talk to him much......with that being said he has been to busy with his own thing and had not made contact with them for nearly a month before seeing them the other day.

so reading these posts, I have been helped - thank you. most don't feel any responsibility to the wife and I get that - its basically on the WH feeding them what he wants them to know?

wishing you all a good day and thanks.

Perhaps I don't feel the need to own hurt because I honestly do not believe it has occurred. (Yet? If ever?)

I accept enough self-flagellation over what I did to myself.

Rose, please understand that the effects of an affair on the MP has a huge impact on the way s/he behaves with the family. His family, especially his wife, will be experiencing considerable negative effects and will likely not know why. The destruction wreaked upon a family is barely imaginable until experienced it witnessed.

June 23, 2015

I will not own something I'm not responsible for. Ownership lies solely with the MM.

I'm not absolving myself of responsibility, I'm just limiting my responsibility to myself and my integrity, not another couple's relationship.

I honestly think unless you see your part in an affair, you could easily get into another affair and stay in it , as long the MM treats you well.

This displays a lack of empathy towards another human being and a refusal to accept personal responsibility. If your only regret is the hurt you have suffered personally, it's really selfish.

This response of if it wasn't me it would be someone else , is what we call a 'cop out '.

If someone points out a suitable home to commit burglary , but doesn't actually do it themselves , they most certainly have some responsibility and should be held accountable.

Any part, that any individual plays in wrong doing , means they should be accountable for that behaviour. To have no remorse when you've contributed to hurting someone else isn't good.

Anyone who thinks it's okay , should accept that they will be viewed as: selfish, with no empathy. There's not really any wriggle room in this one.

Maybe with some more personal growthand realisation , it will clearer.

June 23, 2015

I honestly think unless you see your part in an affair, you could easily get into another affair and stay in it , as long the MM treats you well.

This displays a lack of empathy towards another human being and a refusal to accept personal responsibility. If your only regret is the hurt you have suffered personally, it's really selfish.

This ^^^ x 100.

June 23, 2015

I honestly think unless you see your part in an affair, you could easily get into another affair and stay in it , as long the MM treats you well.

This displays a lack of empathy towards another human being and a refusal to accept personal responsibility. If your only regret is the hurt you have suffered personally, it's really selfish.

This response of if it wasn't me it would be someone else , is what we call a 'cop out '.

If someone points out a suitable home to commit burglary , but doesn't actually do it themselves , they most certainly have some responsibility and should be held accountable.

Any part, that any individual plays in wrong doing , means they should be accountable for that behaviour. To have no remorse when you've contributed to hurting someone else isn't good.

Anyone who thinks it's okay , should accept that they will be viewed as: selfish, with no empathy. There's not really any wriggle room in this one.

Maybe with some more personal growthand realisation , it will clearer.

I never said it was okay. It's not okay. I'm just not going to take responsibility for the pain a husband inflicts on his wife. He owns that. Speaking in legal terms since you're using the example of a burglary, it was his duty he breached, not mine. I did not owe her a duty. Without a duty, there can be no breach of that duty, there can be no causation of damages.

Another example. I'm having work done on my house. I entered into an exclusive agreement with my general contractor. If/when I'm dissatisfied for whatever reason with the work he's doing, should I go behind his back and seek out and bring in a second contractor, that second contractor is not responsible for my breach to my first contractor. There's not even a claim for tortious interference with prospective financial advantage there.

This isn't "mental gymnastics." This is what I firmly believe.

Affairs suck. They're wrong. They do damage to those involved. I own my role. I just do not, and will not, see my role as it's been described - one where I'm a selfish, predatory, malicious home wrecker... Or where I'm even remotely close to equally responsible for the damage to a marriage. Nope. Sorry. He and I are nowhere near equals. I made no vows. I made no promises. I don't believe in marriage.

My involvement in an affair was undoubtedly wrong. I just don't accept the blame for any damage to a marriage.

Thanks to everyone who sent PMs about this, too.

June 23, 2015

Affairs suck. They're wrong. They do damage to those involved. I own my role. I just do not, and will not, see my role as it's been described - one where I'm a selfish, predatory, malicious home wrecker... Or where I'm even remotely close to equally responsible for the damage to a marriage. Nope. Sorry. He and I are nowhere near equals. I made no vows. I made no promises. I don't believe in marriage.

My involvement in an affair was undoubtedly wrong. I just don't accept the blame for any damage to a marriage.

Thanks to everyone who sent PMs about this, too.

Without your involvement there was no betrayal, no affair. By stepping into the ring you took on your half of all the responsibility. Your consent was a crucial component of the betrayal to his wife, his family, his friends, until then it was all just fantasy. You are now part of his cover up, his ongoing deception, you own this part forever and ever and ever. You should get counselling for yourself, just my opinion, you deserve to be happy too.

June 23, 2015

the idea that if it wasn't one particular ow it would be another doesn't say much for the mm or the affair relationship either.

June 23, 2015

Perhaps I don't feel the need to own hurt because I honestly do not believe it has occurred. (Yet? If ever?)

I accept enough self-flagellation over what I did to myself.

Maybe "hurt" is not the right word. To be honest, I have no idea whether xOM's wife knew about me or the other GF. I don't know if she ever was hurt...it could be me projecting my H's hurt onto her.

Maybe a better word is "disrespect." I disrespected xOM's wife with my actions. I disrespected my H. I disrespected myself. That disrespect is all on me and my choices.

June 23, 2015

I never said it was okay. It's not okay. I'm just not going to take responsibility for the pain a husband inflicts on his wife. He owns that. Speaking in legal terms since you're using the example of a burglary, it was his duty he breached, not mine. I did not owe her a duty. Without a duty, there can be no breach of that duty, there can be no causation of damages.

Another example. I'm having work done on my house. I entered into an exclusive agreement with my general contractor. If/when I'm dissatisfied for whatever reason with the work he's doing, should I go behind his back and seek out and bring in a second contractor, that second contractor is not responsible for my breach to my first contractor. There's not even a claim for tortious interference with prospective financial advantage there.

This isn't "mental gymnastics." This is what I firmly believe.

Affairs suck. They're wrong. They do damage to those involved. I own my role. I just do not, and will not, see my role as it's been described - one where I'm a selfish, predatory, malicious home wrecker... Or where I'm even remotely close to equally responsible for the damage to a marriage. Nope. Sorry. He and I are nowhere near equals. I made no vows. I made no promises. I don't believe in marriage.

My involvement in an affair was undoubtedly wrong. I just don't accept the blame for any damage to a marriage.

Thanks to everyone who sent PMs about this, too.

There is such a thing as something being morally wrong as well.

I'm not clear how you accept that the affair was wrong , and say you own your role , don't accept responsibility for hurting the wife.

How do you own your role if you don't think you play a part in hurting the wife? Or are you saying you played a part , but don't feel in any way responsible? Is owning your part just in relation to the pain and hurt YOU'VE suffered?

There's no doubt a MM is more responsible . He made the vows, it's his marriage , but the OW is an accomplice. There would be no affair without an OW.

You know Rose , you've done a total 180 from your views on everything people were telling you before and thought you were being attacked. Now , it's pretty much as everyone said.

Maybe in time, your view will differ.

I'll be honest, I had a view somewhat similar to yours a while. There was a BW saying her H would not have had an affair, if it wasn't for this particular OW who literally threw herself at her H. I just didn't accept the OW getting ALL the blame. And even if this OW did chase one's husband , I believe there will always be women out there like that , so my question was 'what will your H do next time?'

My view was, even if a woman got butt naked and jumped on my H , I expect him to get her off and walk away , like I would if a guy was coming on to me. I realised that other people do has a moral responsibility. We need to recognise that it's not okay and the reason it's not okay , is because you're hurting someone else .

When you realise the effect the blow up of an affair has on the wife and children if the family split, then any compassionate person would feel responsible. Sometimes denial helps absolve oneself of feeling bad about something .

I volunteer with families affected by infidelity and I've seen the fallout :

Kids grades dropping

Self harming

Depression

Substance misuse and so much more

With the BW :

weight loss

Depression /anxiety

Hair loss

Illness

Loss of job , because they just can't function any more

Who would really volunteer to be a part of this?

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Just asking............. (updated)

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