Shining One Posted June 22, 2015 Posted June 22, 2015 I guess if after my bad experiences I was more of the mindset that good people are the exception to the rule, my perspective would be different.Exactly. We're all a product of our experiences. I used to not watch my dating budget at all. I would go wherever and spend whatever. A significant birthday for my mother was coming up and I wanted to buy her a Lexus. I started looking at my budget so I could save up and I realized that in one year I had spent over $5,000 on women who were not interested in me. It was a wakeup call for me. Do I watch every penny? No, but I do take steps to ensure I'm not throwing hundreds of dollars at a woman who hasn't confirmed interest.
BlueIris Posted June 22, 2015 Posted June 22, 2015 Just because they can pay for themselves doesn't mean the expectation that I pay isn't there. Again, I have directly experienced this. Then I'd be in that group. I do expect the man will pay. That’s how I was raised and I find it kind of sexy, as well as the courting protocol. When I did OLD, I usually got my own coffee before he arrived but it didn’t matter to me, didn’t register. I pay for things sometimes but don't know if it's even or fair. I hope that if it isn't, or my BF thinks it isn't, my BF will bring it up. Generally, if a man says dating is too expensive for him, I think he should consider being FAR more discerning about who and how he dates. If he can’t afford to pay for dates, he could become more creative about dates or date less. He could talk about cost up front but a lot of guys are too chicken to do that, to be blunt. I don’t have much sympathy for people who spend beyond their comfort level. THEY ought to solve THEIR problem. Heaven knows, I don’t go to my favorite shoe store more than 2x a year. I know better.
autumnnight Posted June 22, 2015 Posted June 22, 2015 Hypothetical: if a woman is nervous or isn't sure it is okay to offer, and she really DID like you, does she get another chance, or is that one date the nail in her coffin? I ask because on a lot of threads men don;t like the fact that women won't give them more of a chance and expect perfection on the first date.
toolforgrowth Posted June 22, 2015 Posted June 22, 2015 I have directly experienced a lot of things. I think it really just boils down to basic perspective of people in general. I've had more than a few bad experiences, but I still tend to believe that most people have good intentions and good hearts. I guess if after my bad experiences I was more of the mindset that good people are the exception to the rule, my perspective would be different. Your experiences don't negate mine, though. Yes, I do think that the average person is kind of a ****head. People earn my respect. It's not something I freely give away. This applies to all humans.
Shining One Posted June 22, 2015 Posted June 22, 2015 Hypothetical: if a woman is nervous or isn't sure it is okay to offer, and she really DID like you, does she get another chance, or is that one date the nail in her coffin? I ask because on a lot of threads men don;t like the fact that women won't give them more of a chance and expect perfection on the first date.Just as I don't want to be judged on a single date, I would not judge a woman on a single date. If she goes several dates without even glancing in the general direction of the bill, then we have an issue. 1
xxoo Posted June 22, 2015 Posted June 22, 2015 You added the word spoiled, not me. Yes, a woman who chooses not to offer to pay and has no intention of reciprocating in some fashion is entitled.I've been on dates (in my late twenties) with women who show up with just their ID and keys. A lot of young women show up to clubs like this. How does she take a selfie without her phone??? 2
toolforgrowth Posted June 22, 2015 Posted June 22, 2015 Then I'd be in that group. I do expect the man will pay. That’s how I was raised and I find it kind of sexy, as well as the courting protocol. When I did OLD, I usually got my own coffee before he arrived but it didn’t matter to me, didn’t register. I pay for things sometimes but don't know if it's even or fair. I hope that if it isn't, or my BF thinks it isn't, my BF will bring it up. Generally, if a man says dating is too expensive for him, I think he should consider being FAR more discerning about who and how he dates. If he can’t afford to pay for dates, he could become more creative about dates or date less. He could talk about cost up front but a lot of guys are too chicken to do that, to be blunt. I don’t have much sympathy for people who spend beyond their comfort level. THEY ought to solve THEIR problem. Heaven knows, I don’t go to my favorite shoe store more than 2x a year. I know better. The difference is that if I say I was raised to think a woman is supposed to stay home and tend the house/family, I'm labeled a misogynist. If a woman says she was raised to think a man is supposed to pay, she's not labeled a misandrist. Societal expectations. If you shouldn't have to adjust your expectations, why should I? 1
autumnnight Posted June 22, 2015 Posted June 22, 2015 Your experiences don't negate mine, though. Yes, I do think that the average person is kind of a ****head. People earn my respect. It's not something I freely give away. This applies to all humans. That explains it then. Neither outlook is right or wrong, imo. I tend to give respect until I have a reason not to, and you tend to hold off until it's earned. That was probably shaped some by my experiences too. I know what it is like to have people assume bad things about your present just because of your past, so I am probably more generous in my initial perspective because of that. And if the topic was "what if the guy hasn't brought a kiss or anything physical to the table after a lot of dates," I'd be the one assuming the worst....because of all the years I spent in that crap situation. 1
xxoo Posted June 22, 2015 Posted June 22, 2015 I would LOVE to witness the first date stand off where both the woman and the man refuse to pay Someone, please do this on secret camera and post to youtube. Thanks in advance. 8
xxoo Posted June 22, 2015 Posted June 22, 2015 The difference is that if I say I was raised to think a woman is supposed to stay home and tend the house/family, I'm labeled a misogynist. If a woman says she was raised to think a man is supposed to pay, she's not labeled a misandrist. Societal expectations. If you shouldn't have to adjust your expectations, why should I? You are a misogynist if you think ALL women should do that, and women should be limited to that. You are not a misogynist if you hope to find a woman who wants the same, and structure your family that way. Same with dating and who pays. 8
toolforgrowth Posted June 22, 2015 Posted June 22, 2015 I would LOVE to witness the first date stand off where both the woman and the man refuse to pay Someone, please do this on secret camera and post to youtube. Thanks in advance. You bring the popcorn, I'll bring the root beer floats! And watch the hilarity ensue.
toolforgrowth Posted June 22, 2015 Posted June 22, 2015 You are a misogynist if you think ALL women should do that, and women should be limited to that. You are not a misogynist if you hope to find a woman who wants the same, and structure your family that way. Same with dating and who pays. So you expect a man to pay for you, but not all men to pay for all women?
xxoo Posted June 22, 2015 Posted June 22, 2015 So you expect a man to pay for you, but not all men to pay for all women? I don't expect, but I'd be disappointed if he didn't want to pay. I'd think, "Oh! He doesn't fancy me " I'd feel more of a "buddy" vibe, and less romance from him. The type of man I swoon for wants to pay, and has no insecurities about being used. I do understand that other women and men feel differently, and should date how they mutually prefer. Who am I to say all women and men should prefer the man paying? Silliness. 5
BlueIris Posted June 22, 2015 Posted June 22, 2015 The difference is that if I say I was raised to think a woman is supposed to stay home and tend the house/family, I'm labeled a misogynist. If a woman says she was raised to think a man is supposed to pay, she's not labeled a misandrist. Societal expectations. If you shouldn't have to adjust your expectations, why should I? You do not have to expect or accept what I do. I didn't and wouldn't call a man who thought that way a misogynist. I define misogyny differently. But don't worry about what people call you or think you are, in general. Worrying about what others say and think about you is a maze you'll never get out of. Find someone who matches you and don't worry about that big generalized something-out-there.
toolforgrowth Posted June 22, 2015 Posted June 22, 2015 The type of man I swoon for...has no insecurities about being used. Did you just actually write this? "The type of woman I want has no insecurities about being used." How does that sentence make you feel?
xxoo Posted June 22, 2015 Posted June 22, 2015 Did you just actually write this? "The type of woman I want has no insecurities about being used." How does that sentence make you feel? Sounds like me. I've never had insecurities about being used. 3
toolforgrowth Posted June 22, 2015 Posted June 22, 2015 You do not have to expect or accept what I do. I didn't and wouldn't call a man who thought that way a misogynist. I define misogyny differently. But don't worry about what people call you or think you are, in general. Worrying about what others say and think about you is a maze you'll never get out of. Find someone who matches you and don't worry about that big generalized something-out-there. I don't care what people think about me individually. I do care about what the aggregate thinks, which therefore become societal norms and expectations that negatively impact me as said individual. And not just me, but other men as well. The perceptions of the aggregate affect those outside of the aggregate.
toolforgrowth Posted June 22, 2015 Posted June 22, 2015 Sounds like me. I've never had insecurities about being used. You must be very popular at parties.
regine_phalange Posted June 22, 2015 Posted June 22, 2015 I know it's not 100% on topic, but that's my experience. The things I thought I had to offer no one really wanted, and the things I wasn't aware I offered were the most appreciated.
xxoo Posted June 22, 2015 Posted June 22, 2015 You must be very popular at parties. You assume it means I'm promiscuous? No, it just means that I only had sex for the pleasure of sex and connection, even when it was a casual relationship and that's all we each wanted. It doesn't mean I've had a lot of partners. Quite the opposite. Maybe the issue really is being more selective, both with we choose to ask on an expensive date, and who we choose to take to bed. 3
toolforgrowth Posted June 22, 2015 Posted June 22, 2015 You assume it means I'm promiscuous? No, it just means that I only had sex for the pleasure of sex and connection, even when it was a casual relationship and that's all we each wanted. It doesn't mean I've had a lot of partners. Quite the opposite. Maybe the issue really is being more selective, both with we choose to ask on an expensive date, and who we choose to take to bed. I was just kidding around.No need to get defensive. Really what it bears down to is you don't mind being used on your terms. I respect that and feel the same way. A woman I'm just starting to date doesn't deserve using me yet. My GF does because she's proven her worth. But a woman I'm just getting to know? Forget it.
xxoo Posted June 22, 2015 Posted June 22, 2015 I was just kidding around.No need to get defensive. Really what it bears down to is you don't mind being used on your terms. I respect that and feel the same way. A woman I'm just starting to date doesn't deserve using me yet. My GF does because she's proven her worth. But a woman I'm just getting to know? Forget it. I'm just explaining. Not defensive For my husband, it was a pure joy to spend money on me from the first date. Heck, he bought gifts for me before the first date It was all part of his way of showing interest, and the dance of courtship. 3
Clarence_Boddicker Posted June 22, 2015 Posted June 22, 2015 My last relationship brought me a ton of drama & hassle & was doomed to failure from the start. I pretty much knew from the start that we were incompatible, but that didn't stop me from falling in love with her. I wasn't looking for a relationship at the time, but I wasn't gonna lie to her or myself when I fell in love with her, just because my rational side saw a bunch of red & even black flags. We weren't dating & once we talked about how we felt for each other, we (or at least me) did our best to make it work. I can guess pretty accurately what she was looking for. I know I was just following my heart.
hudson701 Posted June 22, 2015 Posted June 22, 2015 Actually, at least 5 men have responded. And 3 of them are well-adjusted. Well, 4 if you include the OP. Well-adjusted? Is that some sort of insult or something? I notice you were attacking me in the other thread.
TunaCat Posted June 22, 2015 Posted June 22, 2015 he bought gifts for me before the first date It was all part of his way of showing interest, and the dance of courtship. See, now this is what I love about forums like this. You get totally different people who had totally different experiences. For me, if a date bought me gifts before we ever had our first date, that would really turn me off and raise some red flags immediately. Yet some women, like you, like that kind of stuff. Different strokes for different folks and all that. 2
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