BlueIris Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 I think most of the time the woman accepts the date because she has interested. Then you chat with the guy and weird stuff starts showing. As I mentionned in the previous thread, we have a sixth sense to recognize frustration and entitlement. :/ Absolutely. Some people date someone because they’re interested in finding out if he might be the kind of person she might want to get involved with. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Returned interest is one of the top items on my list. Contrary to popular belief, sex is not the only way to show me that you're interested. Asking me out and paying for alternating dates is all it takes. Okay, so either wait for that/say that or they just aren't that into you. Is that their fault for the lack of attraction? Cull the herd of them and narrow it to the ones that ARE proactively interested in you. In addition to Got it's response, I think there are ways beyond sex and paying to show interest. Certainly, being enthusiastic about dates that include neither sex nor money would show a lot of interest in just spending time with the person. A hike, for example, for date 2 or 3. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
candie13 Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 I listen. I get involved. I ask. I encourage. I reassure. I make jokes. I'm reliable. I have an aesthetic sensibility. I have soft skin. I love having sex in the morning. I'm sociable, I'm good fun. I'm a shy extrovert. I'm impulsive. I'm an overthinker. I have a strong intuition. I occasionally get scared. I read. I'm pretty pleased with myself. I understand and know myself and my needs. I am generous and giving, as long as I don't feel in danger. I'm too sensitive. I offer decent conversation. I withdraw very quickly and will leave on the spot if I feel I'm being played. I'm driven. I have many passions and hobbies. I'm highly independent. I like to challenge myself and those around me. I will never make a man the center of my universe. I can't stand, give or take any bs. It takes me a bit of time, but I eventually see through games and manipulation. I am obsessed with fair play. The moment I feel a man tries to outsmart me, the RS went to the gutter. I have a strong character. I'm a fighter. I find it hard to give up, even when the cause is lost, if I believe in it. I try to not take myself too seriously. I'm a bit self centered, but generous in bed . I want a partner who is able to express himself emotionally. Link to post Share on other sites
Maleficent Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Absolutely. Some people date someone because they’re interested in finding out if he might be the kind of person she might want to get involved with. Isn't that the case for, well, everyone? lol 1 Link to post Share on other sites
BlueIris Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Isn't that the case for, well, everyone? lol I'd hope so. Or think so. But, some people seem to assume a greater level of interest or intention from one date or a few dates than I would. I dunno. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 I'd hope so. Or think so. But, some people seem to assume a greater level of interest or intention from one date or a few dates than I would. I dunno. I agree with you. It does seem like some assume strong interest, and then struggle to understand behaviors that are clearly indicating weak interest. "He's just not that into you" helped women understand when men (who are dating them, and maybe even sleeping with them) aren't interested. This is the flip side: women happy to be wined and dined, but clearly not into him. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
autumnnight Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Isn't that the case for, well, everyone? lol I don't know how old you are, Maleficent, but "in my day," that was exactly what dating was for, especially the first few. I don't know if it is the online thing, or our need for instant gratification, or technology or what, but a lot of people seem to think they should be entitled to calling it a relationship from date 1, since "we've texted for 2 weeks." It's something I can't really relate to.... 3 Link to post Share on other sites
toolforgrowth Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 There have been times that someone has seemed interesting and like maybe a good fit, but after sitting across from them for awhile and really talking, it just didn't click. I know the reverse has happened as well - they think they might like me, but after a dinner or some conversation, I am not really their type after all. I wonder, looking back, at all the first dates I had whee either it just didn't click for me or they never called again....were they working with their calculator figuring out how much they "wasted" and lamenting the unfairness of it all, or did they just shrug and go on with life.... I never really realized I was a math problem....should I contact these men and offer a refund, like a pair of socks that didn't fit? Not just you specifically. It's about the aggregate. I've seen women on LS say a man who wants to go Dutch wouldn't get a second date. Multiply that by many times over, and you're looking at a significant expense. Life is expensive. Dating even more so, especially for men. I highly doubt the guys you went out with looked at you individually as a math problem. But when women are looked at in aggregate, the dimensions shift. In this day and age of modern feminism, there is no reason why the societal expectation that men pay shouldn't be tossed in the trash can. If women can say they don't have to cook and be a homemaker, that's a-ok with me. But that also means I don't have to pay a woman's way, either. Yay liberation! 2 Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 In this day and age of modern feminism, there is no reason why the societal expectation that men pay shouldn't be tossed in the trash can. If women can say they don't have to cook and be a homemaker, that's a-ok with me. But that also means I don't have to pay a woman's way, either. Yay liberation! No expectation. Just compatible points of view. Obviously, the type of women who finds it romantic when a man wants to buy her a frappuccino isn't compatible with you. That's fine. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
toolforgrowth Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 No expectation. Just compatible points of view. Obviously, the type of women who finds it romantic when a man wants to buy her a frappuccino isn't compatible with you. That's fine. Incorrect. I buy things for my GF all the time. The difference is she doesn't expect it. I do it because I choose to, not because "it's a man's job to pay". Do you understand the difference? I'm not saying you individually have that expectation, but a significant number of women do. Enough of a number that we have to contend with. No one is entitled to my money. With the unfortunate exceptions of the IRS and the Oregon Dept of Revenue. Link to post Share on other sites
BlueIris Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Not just you specifically. It's about the aggregate. I've seen women on LS say a man who wants to go Dutch wouldn't get a second date. Multiply that by many times over, and you're looking at a significant expense. Life is expensive. Dating even more so, especially for men. I highly doubt the guys you went out with looked at you individually as a math problem. But when women are looked at in aggregate, the dimensions shift. In this day and age of modern feminism, there is no reason why the societal expectation that men pay shouldn't be tossed in the trash can. If women can say they don't have to cook and be a homemaker, that's a-ok with me. But that also means I don't have to pay a woman's way, either. Yay liberation! To me the solution is to go on cheap dates IF you want to get to know the girl. The day that I got the tingles for my BF was the night we got an ice cream cone together and talked. He did buy, I think, but it was the overall sweetness of the whole night that made me tingle. Somehow he got incredibly cute eating that ice cream. The guys I dated who spent big and took me to expensive places (and paid, since I never would have chosen such a place or spent that much, I sure wasn't going to subsidize that choice) seemed to be far more concerned about cost and their money than I was... and kind of seemed to be hiding behind it, all the way through the relationship, no matter how long it lasted. Link to post Share on other sites
autumnnight Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Incorrect. I buy things for my GF all the time. The difference is she doesn't expect it. I do it because I choose to, not because "it's a man's job to pay". Do you understand the difference? I'm not saying you individually have that expectation, but a significant number of women do. Enough of a number that we have to contend with. No one is entitled to my money. With the unfortunate exceptions of the IRS and the Oregon Dept of Revenue. I guess my question is this: do men become equipped with special super sensor radar so that they can know immediately upon sitting across from a woman whether she "feels entitled" to have her coffee paid for? Or do men bring their own baggage with them to the coffee shop. And if so, is it possible that the woman who was more than happy to pay for her own coffee senses the baggage? I know for me, even though I have no trouble paying, if a man gave me this vibe that he was mathematically calculating whether I was worth it or he discerned by the way I crossed my legs I must expect a free meal, I'd be incredibly insulted. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
toolforgrowth Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 To me the solution is to go on cheap dates IF you want to get to know the girl. The day that I got the tingles for my BF was the night we got an ice cream cone together and talked. He did buy, I think, but it was the overall sweetness of the whole night that made me tingle. Somehow he got incredibly cute eating that ice cream. The guys I dated who spent big and took me to expensive places (and paid, since I never would have chosen such a place or spent that much, I sure wasn't going to subsidize that choice) seemed to be far more concerned about cost and their money than I was... and kind of seemed to be hiding behind it, all the way through the relationship, no matter how long it lasted. This is highly reasonable. Unfortunately, not all people are reasonable. This includes women as well as men. Link to post Share on other sites
Shining One Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 I know for me, even though I have no trouble paying, if a man gave me this vibe that he was mathematically calculating whether I was worth it or he discerned by the way I crossed my legs I must expect a free meal, I'd be incredibly insulted.Unfortunately, men do not have the sixth sense necessary to know whether or not a woman has this sense of entitlement. We only find out at the end of various dates when she decides whether or not to chip in. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
BlueIris Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Unfortunately, men do not have the sixth sense necessary to know whether or not a woman has this sense of entitlement. We only find out at the end of various dates when she decides whether or not to chip in. There are other ways. Go on low-cost or no-cost dates and put the emphasis on talking and laughing together. Or, talk about it ahead of a date, by saying nicely, "I usually split costs on dates, so I like to talk about what you'd feel comfortable with Friday night. How does dinner at <expensive restaurant> sound to you or would you prefer having hots dogs and those free movies in the park?" That'll suss 'em out. Link to post Share on other sites
toolforgrowth Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 I guess my question is this: do men become equipped with special super sensor radar so that they can know immediately upon sitting across from a woman whether she "feels entitled" to have her coffee paid for? Or do men bring their own baggage with them to the coffee shop. And if so, is it possible that the woman who was more than happy to pay for her own coffee senses the baggage? I know for me, even though I have no trouble paying, if a man gave me this vibe that he was mathematically calculating whether I was worth it or he discerned by the way I crossed my legs I must expect a free meal, I'd be incredibly insulted. No, we don't. That's the point. We won't know that until we've already begun the date and observed her behavior. Likewise, I'm equally insulted when a woman goes out with me just to get free food/drinks. It's happened before. Especially when it was her idea to go out in the first place. It destroyed our friendship and I don't associate with her anymore in any way. It would never have been an issue had the idea that I'm expected to pay never been there in the first place. Link to post Share on other sites
Maleficent Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 I don't know how old you are, Maleficent, but "in my day," that was exactly what dating was for, especially the first few. I don't know if it is the online thing, or our need for instant gratification, or technology or what, but a lot of people seem to think they should be entitled to calling it a relationship from date 1, since "we've texted for 2 weeks." It's something I can't really relate to.... Well, OLD is another problem. Personally, if I send a message to a guy and he responds, I see it as the same as if I was going to talk to a guy in a bar and he responds. nothing more. People's expectations of online dating are ridiculous. I stopped counting the number of men I had not met yet who were acting like we were dating because I replied to their message. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
autumnnight Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Unfortunately, men do not have the sixth sense necessary to know whether or not a woman has this sense of entitlement. We only find out at the end of various dates when she decides whether or not to chip in. So what I hear you saying is that if a woman does NOT offer to chip in, that means that she is spoiled and entitled. This is all so confusing. I am hoping that my age will help me out with this, and that some of the men in my age range and just about will be just as confused as I am rather than deduce things about me. Honestly, if I had such a dismal outlook about the motivations of men, I just wouldn't bother dating at all. Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Incorrect. I buy things for my GF all the time. The difference is she doesn't expect it. I do it because I choose to, not because "it's a man's job to pay". Do you understand the difference? I don't think any woman shows up on a date unable to pay for herself if need be. That would be expectation. Some women insist on paying when she isn't interested. Making assumptions about who pays is tricky, and may say more about our own perspective than the other party's intentions. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Maleficent Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Not just you specifically. It's about the aggregate. I've seen women on LS say a man who wants to go Dutch wouldn't get a second date. Multiply that by many times over, and you're looking at a significant expense. Life is expensive. Dating even more so, especially for men. I highly doubt the guys you went out with looked at you individually as a math problem. But when women are looked at in aggregate, the dimensions shift. In this day and age of modern feminism, there is no reason why the societal expectation that men pay shouldn't be tossed in the trash can. If women can say they don't have to cook and be a homemaker, that's a-ok with me. But that also means I don't have to pay a woman's way, either. Yay liberation! See, if I were a man wanting to avoid the kind of woman who thinks a man should pay on the first date, I would think this is a perfect test. Kind of like when I bring up feminism during the first date - it allows me to weed out the ones with misogynist tendencies. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Maleficent Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Incorrect. I buy things for my GF all the time. The difference is she doesn't expect it. I do it because I choose to, not because "it's a man's job to pay". Do you understand the difference? The difference is she is your girlfriend - not a woman you are having a meet with a greet with... 1 Link to post Share on other sites
toolforgrowth Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 I don't think any woman shows up on a date unable to pay for herself if need be. That would be expectation. Some women insist on paying when she isn't interested. Making assumptions about who pays is tricky, and may say more about our own perspective than the other party's intentions. Just because they can pay for themselves doesn't mean the expectation that I pay isn't there. Again, I have directly experienced this. Link to post Share on other sites
autumnnight Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Just because they can pay for themselves doesn't mean the expectation that I pay isn't there. Again, I have directly experienced this. I have directly experienced a lot of things. I think it really just boils down to basic perspective of people in general. I've had more than a few bad experiences, but I still tend to believe that most people have good intentions and good hearts. I guess if after my bad experiences I was more of the mindset that good people are the exception to the rule, my perspective would be different. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Shining One Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 So what I hear you saying is that if a woman does NOT offer to chip in, that means that she is spoiled and entitled.You added the word spoiled, not me. Yes, a woman who chooses not to offer to pay and has no intention of reciprocating in some fashion is entitled.I don't think any woman shows up on a date unable to pay for herself if need be. That would be expectation.I've been on dates (in my late twenties) with women who show up with just their ID and keys. A lot of young women show up to clubs like this. Link to post Share on other sites
autumnnight Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 ID and keys??? Boy, that IS presumptuous. It's strange. In my age range, sometimes offering to pay or chip in can be a double-edged sword. I did have a couple of men get offended when I offered. Sometimes it is hard to know what to do or not do because I am a terrible mind-reader. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
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