S_A Posted June 23, 2015 Posted June 23, 2015 For every girl that thinks she was born to be a pin up model, there is some stupid bloke in cargo shorts a t shirt with a ballcap and wrap around rainbow sunglasses, that thinks he deserves a pin up model. You realize that most women that look in the mirror see a reflection of themselves that is "less attractive" than what others actually see? In layman's terms, a woman that's a "9" may very well see herself as a "7". You seem to imply it's the other way around?
SycamoreCircle Posted June 23, 2015 Posted June 23, 2015 That 20 year wait might come up trumps, but it's an awfully long time to wait for something that might never happen. I don't think that learning a new language, or a musical instrument is 'malarkey.' I also don't think that commitment to ongoing education and growth is 'malarkey' either. Its served me well in building an absolutely fantastic life that I love. Each to their own - we all get to choose.I guess I should clarify. If you develop the passion to learn a new language or a musical instrument, then by all means pursue that to your heart's content. But don't do it with the idea that you are improving yourself. You are complete just the way you are. 1
JuneJulySeptember Posted June 23, 2015 Posted June 23, 2015 In other countries where everybody is predominantly white and wealthy, I'm sure it's the same. UK, Germany, etc. Those with more want more, and those with less are more forgiving. 1
Satu Posted June 23, 2015 Posted June 23, 2015 I guess I should clarify. If you develop the passion to learn a new language or a musical instrument, then by all means pursue that to your heart's content. But don't do it with the idea that you are improving yourself. You are complete just the way you are. I agree
Author impatiently_patient Posted June 24, 2015 Author Posted June 24, 2015 True, they were not your words, but you posted it with the hopes people would agree with your frustrations? Let's not be disingenuous here. You could have posted a thousand different ways about your frustrations but chose an inflammatory generalization. That choice says a lot! Again: This is your interpretation. I can only assert that is not my intention. I can't make you believe me, nor will I continue to try. ¯\(°_o)/¯ There are no wars here, and I have found plenty of people on either side of this debate objective. Claiming that people disagreeing aren't being "objective" is actually a red flag for me, personally. That's one of those buzzwords people throw out to invalidate other people's viewpoints. I may get angry with someone, I may tell them they are wrong and I disagree with them, but I will never tell anyone they can't be objective. It's not a buzzword, it's a means of communicating facts, ideas, or theories. You should have had a class somewhere along the way that went over debate, objectivity, subjectivity, data, anecdote, all the agumentiums. I think people were reacting to the insulting statement about American women, and yes, making assumptions about the kind of man you are who seems to, if not espouse these views, certainly condones them. Text is a bad medium, but it's really all anyone has here. It's actually a very good medium, if used properly. Starting with reading comprehension, then leaving emotion out of the picture usually helps a lot. For instance, I can say I'm against mandating that anyone should take the Confederate flag down (which is a hot button topic right now), but it's not because I'm a old South sympathizer in any way, shape, or form. There is a more intricate debate to be had there that should start with, "Why do you think it shouldn't come down?", and not something like, "You're just one of those bigoted hillbillies. " Alas, I cannot force anyone in particular to have an intelligent, inquiry based discussion about anything... nor will I take any blame them choosing not to. You don't have to explain or defend anything to me. You are who you are and feelings are what they are. If your wondering about my feelings on the discussion, they're pretty much nonexistent. As for my ideas one way or another, I haven't really formed any. See, I've been posting here a while and I have never felt like people beat up on me, to win at all costs. Your feelings are valid, but the experiences we have in these places are determined by the way we conduct ourselves. If I started posting inflammatory threads about men, or being more combative to other posters, you can bet my experience would change! I am not saying you're being combative in general, but maybe realize that people are reacting to what you post and not necessarily you as a human being. I've been on a lot of forms over the years. I've found posters who get tunnel vision, despite clarification, to be fairly common, as much as what should be exploratory conversation turning into binary debate.
Author impatiently_patient Posted June 24, 2015 Author Posted June 24, 2015 I guess I should clarify. If you develop the passion to learn a new language or a musical instrument, then by all means pursue that to your heart's content. But don't do it with the idea that you are improving yourself. You are complete just the way you are. I'm pretty sure I get the gist of you're saying, SycamoreCircle: No one's saying self-improvement is bad... heck, it should be something people just do... part of life. And I do. On the flipside, I'm 38: I am a defined person, I'm educated, I'm informed, I'm worldly, I work hard, make quite good money, I'm a decent conversationalist, I'm reasonably fit, go to the gym regularly, I know how to dress, how to iron a shirt, am beyond sufficiently hygienic, I get my hair cut and dyed every two weeks, groom well, trim by beard every other day, whiten my teeth, Polish my shoes, get outdoors and get some sun (but not too much), keep my apartment immaculate, pay my bills, cook great meals, learn new things, try new things, appreciate art & culture, travel, spend time with my friends and coworkers, and so on... At what point is am I as an entity going to be attractive to women? Like the man said, 20 more years of self-improvement? Fifty-eight? Sixty-eight? I can look forward to traveling and experiencing life with a partner only when I'm old, wrinkled, and decrepit? I think I'm beyond good enough in the here and now. I have no reason to believe otherwise.
Satu Posted June 25, 2015 Posted June 25, 2015 (edited) I'm sure you are good enough, and you have the right to be who you are and feel good about it. The thing is, people who are good enough don't always get what they want. I'm sure that there are many good matches out there for you, but you're not necessarily going to meet one of them. I hope you do, but you might not. Chance and chaos play a part. I noticed that earlier in the thread you said this: Of course. I deserve nothing from no particular individual woman. *I do believe, that in a Maslowian sense of things, I deserve to find love and to love another within the bigger scope of things. I can't be so awful that in a city of 4.2 million people, that I won't have some options more often than once a year, if that. Regardless of what my friend said, I've found the appreciation for the opposite sex (amongst heterosexuals, of course) to be quite asymmetric. *Thats a bit like saying that you deserve a refreshing rain shower on Sunday afternoon, and a shady tree to sit under. I don't think *deserving* has anything to do with it. I think its more to do with maximising the odds; which might involve things like deliberately expanding your social circle, and deciding which public events to attend. I have what I want, but who can say I deserve it? Maybe I just made some good decisions, and chance and chaos did the rest... In any case, I hope you get what you want. Keep looking. Edited June 25, 2015 by Satu 1
Author impatiently_patient Posted June 25, 2015 Author Posted June 25, 2015 (edited) I'm sure that there are many good matches out there for you, but you're not necessarily going to meet one of them. I hope you do, but you might not. I think its more to do with maximising the odds; which might involve things like deliberately expanding your social circle, and deciding which public events to attend. Keep looking. Sure, sure... but a lot like self-improvement, I think these things go without saying. I'm always trying to meet new people, make new contacts, get out and do the things I enjoy, tag along to friends' goings-on, do Meetups and the like. The network route is kinda crap, in my experience, though. The last time I got a date through a social connection was like 1996. I've done the pathetic, single guy thing of late recently as well, hitting up a few of my more social butterfly friends, and they came up with nothing appropriate. Moreover, I'd go so far as to say it's even MORE difficult to make platonic friends than to get dates. For instance, I've been trying to get a new music project going for about two years now, and coming up empty in that respect too. Everyone seems so unmotivated and flaky these days. I don't know what's wrong with people. I have all sorts of great conversations with people, make the connections, but the follow-up is abysmal. Edited June 25, 2015 by impatiently_patient
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