impatiently_patient Posted June 21, 2015 Posted June 21, 2015 Due to my time spent in the music community, I've got a number of friends strewn about the globe, and I was online chatting with a regular in Melbourne, Australia. Really good guy. I was venting a bit about my dating frustrations, and made the comment, "I'm the biggest humanist you probably know, but when it comes to modern dating, I'd almost swear women are really trying to create an experience to turn men into misogynists." Then I think there were some choice expletives. He came back with, "Yeah, I feel sorry for you, man. I've heard that American women are tremendously superficial." Obviously , this is a generalization, and I certainly know some superficial men in my little world, but from my [straight, male] side of the dating table, it sure does feel out of balance. It's ridiculously difficult to get a break, it seems, and I ain't a bad looking / out-of-shape / broke / unconfident guy. It is a bit disconcerting to hear that American women are infamous for being more than a bit vapid. It's funny, I see all sorts of reasonably decent women with less than "GQ perfect" guys, but most of the single women I come across out there seem so fickle and insufferable. 1
Gaeta Posted June 21, 2015 Posted June 21, 2015 I am not American. I heard that American men are bad lovers. What do you think of my generalization? Ridiculous isn't it? 6
Satu Posted June 21, 2015 Posted June 21, 2015 I heard that American women are really good with horses and guns, but I don't know if its true or not. 2
umirano Posted June 21, 2015 Posted June 21, 2015 I dated one American girl aged 19-22 at the time. She was everything but superficial. 1
Author impatiently_patient Posted June 21, 2015 Author Posted June 21, 2015 I am not American. I heard that American men are bad lovers. What do you think of my generalization? Ridiculous isn't it? I dunno, you could be right, generally speaking. I generally get good grades from the ladies I've been with... but then, I'm not your average American by a longshot. See, I like guns and hate horses (and Republicans, and Republican horses). Making generalizations about my country doesn't hurt my feelings in the least. I'm analytical. All I can say is that dealing with women in the only dating market I know is makes me feel like they're generally awful to interact with. I use that word because we're talking the vast majority of the time. 1
Author impatiently_patient Posted June 21, 2015 Author Posted June 21, 2015 Generalisations are the product of lazy minds. I disagree. Generalities, and moreover, trends in data are the realm of statisticians, who generally (to use the word again) are not lazy. If my observations on this particular experience are negative, I don't see how it makes me lazy. 4
lana-banana Posted June 21, 2015 Posted June 21, 2015 This just in: people who are unsuccessful at dating make unfair generalizations of other people. News at 11. 7
SycamoreCircle Posted June 21, 2015 Posted June 21, 2015 I do believe that a lot of American women adopt the interests, attitudes, gestures, vocal mannerisms and style of women on TV. Not across the board, of course. But there's a lot of women who found "direction" with Sex and the City. And that's one of the more "positive" examples, in my opinion. I do think also that women are struggling into a consciousness that competes with men's interests. Now, proceed to baste and lambast me.:laugh: 2
Author impatiently_patient Posted June 21, 2015 Author Posted June 21, 2015 This just in: people who are unsuccessful at dating make unfair generalizations of other people. News at 11. I wasn't generalizaing an people, only the experience. My friend generalized American women. I'm a blank sheet type of person when it comes to new interactions. 1
lollipopspot Posted June 21, 2015 Posted June 21, 2015 He came back with, "Yeah, I feel sorry for you, man. I've heard that American women are tremendously superficial."... I certainly know some superficial men in my little world, but from my [straight, male] side of the dating table, it sure does feel out of balance. What is your theory as to why American women (as opposed to all other women and men) would all be superficial? 1
Satu Posted June 21, 2015 Posted June 21, 2015 I disagree. Generalities, and moreover, trends in data are the realm of statisticians, who generally (to use the word again) are not lazy. If my observations on this particular experience are negative, I don't see how it makes me lazy. I wasn't speaking about you. I have no way of knowing whether you are lazy or not. I was speaking about the pitfalls of generalisation. Generalisations can be a form of thought-terminating cliché. "The most far-reaching and complex of human problems are compressed into brief, highly reductive, definitive-sounding phrases, easily memorized and easily expressed. These become the start and finish of any ideological analysis." -Thought Reform and the Psychology of Totalism. Robert Jay Lifton. 1
umirano Posted June 21, 2015 Posted June 21, 2015 trends in data are the realm of statisticians, who generally (to use the word again) are not lazy. I see neither data nor a statistical analysis in this thread. 3
Author impatiently_patient Posted June 21, 2015 Author Posted June 21, 2015 What is your theory as to why American women (as opposed to all other women and men) would all be superficial? Personal experience, I guess. Seeing many of my male friends struggle with it, too. 1. Rarely any women interested in me in the real world. 2. Borderline zero interest on dating sites, Tinder, etc., especially when I don't advertise my salary. 3. Reading womens' profiles in general. Certainly not all are bad, but there are a lot of them that I'd say dive pretty deep into superficial territory. Pretty depressing really when you're just looking for a good person. I'd like to think I'm a decent guy: good looking, in good shape, got my proverbial ____ **** together. All that. My friends baffle regularly at me being single, but I get ignored and shot down so much it's not even funny. 1
SycamoreCircle Posted June 21, 2015 Posted June 21, 2015 Get to the point where being shot down and rejected is funny. 2
Author impatiently_patient Posted June 21, 2015 Author Posted June 21, 2015 I see neither data nor a statistical analysis in this thread. Pick up Dataclysm by Christian Rudder, and hit up the OK Trends blog posts. Buckle up. Phenomenal book. Gets really good when you get to the race stuff. I've never been more ashamed for my country. 1
Author impatiently_patient Posted June 21, 2015 Author Posted June 21, 2015 Get to the point where being shot down and rejected is funny. Not sure it really ever was. I think I was just wearing out an anecdote that admittedly makes little sense. 1
Gaeta Posted June 21, 2015 Posted June 21, 2015 There are too many variables to be generalizing about women. Who we are is modeled by where we were born, how we were raised, what is our cultural heritage, what social class, are we religious or not and how old we are, and our personal baggage. I am sure a 20 year old woman from deep Utah does not handle dating like a 45 year old woman living in the heart of New York city. Also, women have changed a great deal in the past 50 years. Have men changed their ways? have you evolved along with us? considering in 2015 there are still 35% of women that will experience domestic violence. 5
Gaeta Posted June 21, 2015 Posted June 21, 2015 There are I don't know how many threads posted by men on here about how women have changed. If an entire gender has changed maybe there is a reason for it? Maybe you men should start thinking about changing as well. 5
SycamoreCircle Posted June 21, 2015 Posted June 21, 2015 It's apparent that you're hurt and lonely. I'm sorry. I know how it feels. I feel that way a lot of times now. But I think if you can get to the point that you're entirely self-reliant and the prospect of meeting a woman and hitting it off or meeting a woman and things going nowhere doesn't faze you, then women will look at you differently. 2
Author impatiently_patient Posted June 21, 2015 Author Posted June 21, 2015 There are too many variables to be generalizing about women. Who we are is modeled by where we were born, how we were raised, what is our cultural heritage, what social class, are we religious or not and how old we are, and our personal baggage. I am sure a 20 year old woman from deep Utah does not handle dating like a 45 year old woman living in the heart of New York city. Also, women have changed a great deal in the past 50 years. Have men changed their ways? have you evolved along with us? considering in 2015 there are still 35% of women that will experience domestic violence. I personally don't subscribe to any gender norms, so I can't really answer your question... if it even was a question or it was just rhetorical. If anything, I'm on the progressive end of the spectrum with you're archetypical "modern" women. 1
Diana Bol Posted June 21, 2015 Posted June 21, 2015 You are absolutely right. American women are selfish and superficial. This is one of the few stereotypes that actually holds, unfortunately. I'd say 85% are. And American men are somewhat bad lovers. That stereotype holds true too. 2
SycamoreCircle Posted June 21, 2015 Posted June 21, 2015 There are I don't know how many threads posted by men on here about how women have changed. If an entire gender has changed maybe there is a reason for it? Maybe you men should start thinking about changing as well.We are changing, too. 1
Satu Posted June 21, 2015 Posted June 21, 2015 *there are a lot of them that I'd say dive pretty deep into superficial territory. Have you considered the possibility that your lack of success with women might be because of you in particular, rather than women in general? That is a possibility, you know. 1
lana-banana Posted June 21, 2015 Posted June 21, 2015 (edited) And if your friend had said that American women were sweet but clever, ruthless negotiators, and fantastic conversationalists* would you have posted this thread? Of course not. But you found someone who admittedly has no firsthand experience whatsoever (you said he had only "heard" about American women) and so you're taking his second or thirdhand knowledge and attempting to extrapolate a trend. I do not think you would have make a very good statistician. I'm sincerely sorry you aren't having luck with online dating. It's difficult for most people, and I empathize with being frustrated, but your own lack of success is not proof that we're "generally awful to interact with". I'd add that women can usually tell when a guy has these sorts of opinions, and that may be hurting you. No one ever rejected a man for being too open-minded or optimistic. These threads have a way of getting creepy very quickly, particularly when someone feels the need to expound upon the supposed virtues of women from other countries, so I'm just gonna pour myself a bit of the Willett XCF and call it a night. * = all international perspectives I heard of American women while traveling abroad. It wasn't just me in particular; the men I spoke to said they loved American women for their business acumen and intelligence, but also found us to be very sweet-natured overall. Edited June 21, 2015 by lana-banana 3
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