Why am I always the "really nice" girl but not date worthy? It's discouraging...

June 22, 2015

Sometimes people like chocolate ice cream, and sometimes they like strawberry ice cream. Both ice creams are delicious. Both have people who think they're the best and both have people who aren't so into them.
Just because someone didn't want a scoop of strawberry icecream doesn't mean the strawberry ice cream is horrible. And maybe they'll want it later, who knows? But strawberry ice cream cant beat itself up and hide in the back because some people just weren't in the mood for it.

I like this. It's helpful to remember when I start getting down. Thank you.

June 22, 2015

I am of the opinion that you should never be "friends" with a guy you are attracted to. If he hasn't legitimately asked you out after a couple of weeks, then he's not interested in the way you want him to be. At that point, you should stop talking to him and move on.

June 22, 2015

Too available.
Too nice.
Too boring.

Would make a good friend though. You're the female version of the nice guy.

I would agree with the "too nice" part since I'm a typical people pleaser and I don't normally confront or tease people that often unless I'm close friends with them. It's definitely a curse sometimes. Not sure about "too available" though, since you're only getting to know each other on first dates when you're basically strangers (unless you already know each other in some fashion in real life) and I'm simply good at conversations, so I don't know what comes off as not "challenging" to them. I never appear too eager or too available afterwards, either. The second guy only reached out once or twice a week and since I knew that he was probably not that interested, I only replied in a lukewarm tone but never initiated any contact.

June 22, 2015

I am of the opinion that you should never be "friends" with a guy you are attracted to. If he hasn't legitimately asked you out after a couple of weeks, then he's not interested in the way you want him to be. At that point, you should stop talking to him and move on.

I agree. At the moment it'd be too painful for me to hang out with him as friends. I've kind of gotten over the first guy already since that was a couple of months ago but the wounds from the second guy is still fresh. Luckily neither of these two live that close to where I am so I run no risk of running into them. I don't intend on initiating any contact with this guy, although he's pretty interested in staying friends, of course. Moving on...

June 22, 2015

I agree.I think the men love bitches slogan is over done. Yes I know guys who are with women who are moody bitches but the guys were desperate to be in a relationship or the woman is hotter then they would normally get so make the trade off. Given the choice between a pretty, sweet, devoted, eager to please gf and a pretty, skanky, moody, criticizing, bitch gf, the majority of guys will choose the former. I do agree with Versacehottie on her not being too available, For guys who can score women easy it wont be so good, but for the other guys I don't think it would necessarily be the kiss of death.

These guys were on the rebound after a breakup that left both of them still pining for their exes and that a very poor base for her to make assumptions on herself as to why she failed to snag them. As a short answer to these sorts of cases I can't see why the same explanation that usually goes with ( smart, fun to be with, really nice, really cool, interesting, etc) men in these circumstances cannot also apply to women.....you are just don't have the looks/demeanor that turn them on.

I have to say that I kinda agree with what you're saying here. I've never been the drop dead gorgeous kind my entire life and I know I'm pretty average looking, and I sensed that it could be an issue with these two cases, especially the second guy. He kept telling me how gorgeous his ex was and every day he had to see that beautiful face at work... He commented on the looks of all the other girls he'd seen or was currently seeing too. It sounds like these girls are also not afraid to voice their concerns and needs, and showed him what they want. I, on the other hand, usually become too nice/polite or too accommodating. I never felt like I was very good at flirting or "coming on to" guys, either...

Too bad I also know some women who are average looking too and scored really handsome men. And then some really attractive, smart women still single...

June 22, 2015

You repeated the same mistake twice, you got involved with men freshly out of relationships. If you keep doing that you will keep getting the same results.

Also, many men will get interested in you, it doesn't mean they are good candidate to fall in love with. You have to ask questions and when they tell you they broke up 2 months ago it's up to you to say: Sorry I am not interested in seeing you. EVEN if you really like them.

Well, of course I didn't repeat the same mistake voluntarily. These guys usually don't mention how they're emotionally unavailable on first dates, and even if you ask them when their last relationship ended or something, they'd lie. You either figure out the truth yourself or it came out later like this talk I had with him.

June 22, 2015

It could be that you are really nice girl and and cute too but just BORING.

I recently went out with this girl and was really attracted to her in the beginning... actually couldn't believe she was single. When i first met her i noticed that she was really nice good girl and she was hot too so i was really looking forward to taking her out.

Once we went on a date i started to understand why she was single...SHE WAS REALLY BORING...I tried i really did i made jokes she laughed, i talked to her asked her questions about her and she answered with boring answers and i followed up with questions or remarks and we would hit a dead end because she wasn't helping. I would then start another topic only for her to answer the question me make remark her say something and it ended... SHE NEVER ONCE ASKED ME a question about me or helped move conversation forward. When i joked she laughed but she never joked back or teased me or anything.

After a while it felt like i was at work trying to keep a convo going and i realized i wasnt having any fun. I couldnt wait to drop her off and despite her sending me thanks for dinner text i never responded. We have few friends in common and they mentioned how shes really nice and i am quick to answer how amazing she is but our personalities just dont match IE she bored me to DEATH.

Compare this to this other girl who is cute but slightly chubby. Initially i didnt really find her attractive but her personality totally won me over. She would tease joke with me and we would constantly end up laughing when we saw each other. After this happend 2-3 times I just couldnt help it anymore i literally yelled out i love your bubbly personality what is your number we have to hang out!

My advice get some social skills be fun to be around and guys will love to be around you and they will be glad they broke up w their gf as you are so much more fun.

If a guy asks for your number and asks you out on a date he is PHYSICALLY ATTRACTED TO YOU... I am just guessing that you bored them to death and they started wishing that they had their gf back w them. If they had fun w you they wouldnt be thinking about their ex...if they did they would be saying thank good i broke up with so and so i got to meet OP

Edited June 22, 2015 by Curious-One

June 22, 2015

I have to say that I kinda agree with what you're saying here. I've never been the drop dead gorgeous kind my entire life and I know I'm pretty average looking, and I sensed that it could be an issue with these two cases, especially the second guy. He kept telling me how gorgeous his ex was and every day he had to see that beautiful face at work... He commented on the looks of all the other girls he'd seen or was currently seeing too. It sounds like these girls are also not afraid to voice their concerns and needs, and showed him what they want. I, on the other hand, usually become too nice/polite or too accommodating. I never felt like I was very good at flirting or "coming on to" guys, either...

Too bad I also know some women who are average looking too and scored really handsome men. And then some really attractive, smart women still single...

Yup i am pretty sure you are very similar to the attractive girl that i went out with.

She was also very nice/polite and you could tell that she was very worried about what she would say as she didnt want to say something stupid or come off as being dumb. She never joked or flirted heck when she didnt ask me any questions i started thinking she was not interested in me at all. She didn't even bother to flirt or mess with me at all...it was pretty much like talking to a BRICK.

Honestly i would atleast love to sleep with her she was that hot but the thought of having to go through that awkward boring date again ...i would much rather fap

June 22, 2015

I've never been the drop dead gorgeous kind my entire life and I know I'm pretty average looking, and I sensed that it could be an issue with these two cases, especially the second guy. He kept telling me how gorgeous his ex was and every day he had to see that beautiful face at work... He commented on the looks of all the other girls he'd seen or was currently seeing too. It sounds like these girls are also not afraid to voice their concerns and needs, and showed him what they want. I, on the other hand, usually become too nice/polite or too accommodating. I never felt like I was very good at flirting or "coming on to" guys, either...

Too bad I also know some women who are average looking too and scored really handsome men. And then some really attractive, smart women still single...

I really don't think women who are not drop dead gorgeous will have this as an on going issue all their lives. You could still easily be described as cute or pretty. Benchmarking yourself with the top end of looks is too extreme, but I have to agree for either sex, the more attractive you are the less chance there will be that you will get that line from people you date, or the other line of 'I'm just not looking for a relationship at the moment.' For women who are plain looking/less feminine/chunky build, but have all the other positive attributes described by the 2 guys as what they appreciated, then I could understand they might encounter this scenario on and off in their lives, just like many 'nice guy' type guys do. It can be really frustrating when you get this outcome though especially when you think you really click with the person and you really fancy them and prospects like that don't come along all that frequently. If you have lots of options though its easy to get over it.

Being too nice/polite or too accommodating I don't necessarily think is a bad thing in terms of the guy losing attraction. for sure it will depend on the guy. Good looking guys I know find so many women easy and they allow them selves get taken advantage of and manipulated, and the guy loses respect for them. For some guys you wont stand out as anything special in that regard, but for other guys where women are not easy & eager to please, its a good thing. Its only a bad thing from your perspective if you let yourself get taken advantage of in the relationship or he does not appreciate it and takes you for granted.

For a woman who is never gets the tag babe/hot/a honey/totally bangable/cute/gorgeous, etc.from guys, it would really help to boost their sex appeal to men if they were flirtatious. A sexy attitude & a fun loving nature definitely help to make up for a lack of beauty for many guys who are not so looks obsessed. You still need to make good choices on who you flirt with, as the guy might get the impression you are DTF and go with it but have no long term desire for you. Also reading the post above I got to add that flirting will help many shyer/less confident guys pick up that you have interest for them, and once they get the green light they will then ramp up their interest in you. Without any flirting from you, they may think you have no interest in them as a potential bf.

Edited June 22, 2015 by ascendotum

June 22, 2015

Shes-Too-Nice-Really-Means

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June 22, 2015

I honestly think you need to set better boundaries. Based on your post, you seem to have a history of putting up with red flags (his lack of contact or enthusiasm, etc), and you might give out vibes that attract men who want the lazy way out (or a quick rebound), and possibly turn off men who actually want to put effort into a relationship.I suppose 'doormat' is a bit of a strong word since you weren't really tolerating abuse or such, but I would term it as overly-accommodating. I hope this doesn't come across as offensive, but I can't think of a better way to put it.

I've found that people's perception of worth often correlates with their degree of investment, and the correlation works both ways. Basically, people invest more in something they perceive as worthwhile, but they ALSO tend to perceive something as more valuable if they have invested a lot in it. So in general being too accommodating is a bad idea all around.

Edited June 22, 2015 by Elswyth

June 22, 2015

It sounds like both guys were on the rebound and probably would not be serious about any lady at the time.

^^^ this^^^

Do not beat yourself up. NO girl apart from their ex, was going to be successful there.

I do not think we can gauge how "attractive" a prospect you are to men in general here.

However, we can say that you should not date men freshly out of other relationships, do not sit by why they go on about how beautiful, clever or interesting their ex was, and if they are not showing a distinct interest in YOU and a passion for YOU, do not give them the time of day.

Fakers, flakers and faders -> NEXT

June 22, 2015

Few things:

Do not date people fresh out of relationships, divorce, on fence/bitter about their ex etc.

You positioned yourself in both cases as second fiddle at best. You ignored many red flags - lukewarm texts, your own gut feelings, not seeing guys that live a stone's throw from you. Guys who want to be friends do not see you as gf material and that can be for many reasons.

Sorry this happened to you twice.

June 22, 2015

It could be that you are really nice girl and and cute too but just BORING.

I recently went out with this girl and was really attracted to her in the beginning... actually couldn't believe she was single. When i first met her i noticed that she was really nice good girl and she was hot too so i was really looking forward to taking her out.

Once we went on a date i started to understand why she was single...SHE WAS REALLY BORING...I tried i really did i made jokes she laughed, i talked to her asked her questions about her and she answered with boring answers and i followed up with questions or remarks and we would hit a dead end because she wasn't helping. I would then start another topic only for her to answer the question me make remark her say something and it ended... SHE NEVER ONCE ASKED ME a question about me or helped move conversation forward. When i joked she laughed but she never joked back or teased me or anything.

After a while it felt like i was at work trying to keep a convo going and i realized i wasnt having any fun. I couldnt wait to drop her off and despite her sending me thanks for dinner text i never responded. We have few friends in common and they mentioned how shes really nice and i am quick to answer how amazing she is but our personalities just dont match IE she bored me to DEATH.

Compare this to this other girl who is cute but slightly chubby. Initially i didnt really find her attractive but her personality totally won me over. She would tease joke with me and we would constantly end up laughing when we saw each other. After this happend 2-3 times I just couldnt help it anymore i literally yelled out i love your bubbly personality what is your number we have to hang out!

My advice get some social skills be fun to be around and guys will love to be around you and they will be glad they broke up w their gf as you are so much more fun.

If a guy asks for your number and asks you out on a date he is PHYSICALLY ATTRACTED TO YOU... I am just guessing that you bored them to death and they started wishing that they had their gf back w them. If they had fun w you they wouldnt be thinking about their ex...if they did they would be saying thank good i broke up with so and so i got to meet OP

Interesting story. Thanks for sharing the insight. I'm not sure I'm the boring type, though, since pretty much all the guys I've gone out with (including these two I described here) said I was fun, interesting, and cool to hang out with, which is also why these two said they were keeping in touch with me, albeit lukewarmly. I'm a journalist so I'm a people person, I'm good at engaging in conversations and I'm not afraid of being around people or strangers for that matter. I guess I spoke to these guys to their mind, not their heart. So I come off as a very cool friend material but they didn't develop romantic feelings for me. I've never met anyone who thought I was completely awful and did not want to see my face ever again, either ... My problem is that all of my dating experience has ended up with one-sided interest either on my side or on their side. I do admit, though, that I do tend to be a bit too nice sometimes and am not challenging enough. The conversations flow smoothly and nicely, but there's a lack of banter, flirt, sparks, etc., I guess.

June 22, 2015

Maybe he doesn't find you that physically attractive, either face or body. Do you keep your body in shape? And how old are you and the guys?

June 22, 2015

I honestly think you need to set better boundaries. Based on your post, you seem to have a history of putting up with red flags (his lack of contact or enthusiasm, etc), and you might give out vibes that attract men who want the lazy way out (or a quick rebound), and possibly turn off men who actually want to put effort into a relationship.I suppose 'doormat' is a bit of a strong word since you weren't really tolerating abuse or such, but I would term it as overly-accommodating. I hope this doesn't come across as offensive, but I can't think of a better way to put it.

I've found that people's perception of worth often correlates with their degree of investment, and the correlation works both ways. Basically, people invest more in something they perceive as worthwhile, but they ALSO tend to perceive something as more valuable if they have invested a lot in it. So in general being too accommodating is a bad idea all around.

Thanks. It's not offensive at all and I agree with it. I do realize my overly nice and overly accommodating nature, which makes me a "nice person" overall but a challenge or sparks could be missing when I meet guys.

The funny thing is I guess I only put up with the red flags by not acknowledging them or calling the guys out on them early on. My only "investment" was emotional since I liked them and naturally I cared about how the whole thing might become and what they were thinking about me; however, since I did sense their lack of interest a long time ago, I never dropped everything in my life and just pined over them constantly - I was still trying to date other people, and I went on with my life as usual knowing that the whole thing could bite the dust anytime and I need to continue dating other people. I rarely initiated much contact with them and only responded nicely when they contacted me, so in a way they never felt like I was that interested in them either. I only mirrored their actions. I guess I just wished my gut feeling wasn't true the whole time.

June 22, 2015

Maybe he doesn't find you that physically attractive, either face or body. Do you keep your body in shape? And how old are you and the guys?

Could be. I do keep my body in shape and I don't think I'm atrocious looking. I'm 27 and the first guy is 27 too and the second guy is 29. I could tell the first guy wasn't that impressed with my looks but he did like my personality; the second guy said I was "really pretty" immediately after we met and had commented on it a couple of times in other occasions, but I don't think I'm as "pretty" as his ex whom he terms as "utterly gorgeous."

I find people's standard for beauty really varies... The new girl that this second guy is currently seeing doesn't strike me as a beauty based on the picture he showed me. She seems kinda chubby and short too. Of course I don't know her so I can't speak for her personality. I swear I can pick a ton of my single female colleagues that triumph her in physical appearance ... no kidding.

June 22, 2015

Few things:

Do not date people fresh out of relationships, divorce, on fence/bitter about their ex etc.

You positioned yourself in both cases as second fiddle at best. You ignored many red flags - lukewarm texts, your own gut feelings, not seeing guys that live a stone's throw from you. Guys who want to be friends do not see you as gf material and that can be for many reasons.

Sorry this happened to you twice.

Yep, the second guy did mention that it was also a minus point that I lived 40 minutes away. So even if there was mutual interest, we could probably only see each other on the weekends, so it's not that convenient to just grab dinner or meet up for something in the evenings any day of the week.

I guess what makes me a bit angry was why these two people would go on dates immediately after a breakup. I mean, I understand the loneliness and hunger for female attention at that point, but you know you'd just be doing everyone a disservice there when you're emotionally unavailable for anybody. However, I know people who are not over their ex can still fall for a new person if they feel really attracted to them. Unfortunately I met both people right at the "fresh out of a relationship" moment, which I honestly couldn't control. Timing is a bitch.

June 22, 2015

I'll take "nice" all day long. The whole "elusive challenge" thing does nothing for me. You're young and so were the guys. They haven't learned to appreciate a nice girl yet. When you're nice and just being yourself, someone will come along that finds that refreshing.

June 22, 2015

what you are describing here is like a female version of the friendzone which means you are going to need to pump up the girl-alpha a little bit.

The Holy Trinity of girl-alpha is Pretty. Sexy. and Femininity. Turn those three things up and you'll do fine.

You are getting dates and guys are going out with you and liking you, so you are in the running; you just need to work a little harder to move up closer to the front rather than getting lost back in the pack.

Let's break the 3 things down into their constituent parts a little more

-PRETTY: You aren't bad looking because good looking guys are taking you out on dates. You just need to bump it up a little more. update your hair. That's like a lions mane. it's your billboard. start there. Get a more contemporary style or some more striking colors or whatever but do something different there and someone will notice.

Get a tan. yeah you'll deal with wrinkles and cancer when your 55 but you'll get more and higher quality dudes now with one as opposed to glowing in the dark. If your doctor forbids it then start spraying.

If you don't use make up or very minimal then bump it up. If someone ever uses the term "Tammy Faye Baker" around you then back it down.

It's summer so fresh mani's and Pedi's 24/7. Sorry it's a pain in the @$$ but you gotta do it. Even guys that don't have foot fetishes will run for the hills if you have bear claws sticking out.

Tooth whitening. it's your friend.

If you are overweight (and by that I mean actual rolls, not chick-overweight) hit the gym like it's the cure for world hunger, disease and war all rolled into one. You simply have to get your waistline down visibly less than your hips to stand a chance at a guy that's not a chubby chaser.

If you are under weight (as in your doctor tells you you are underweight, not your girlfriends telling you you are too skinny because they are jealous and you make them feel fat) then hit the weights like it is the cure for world hunger and eat some actual meat every day and lay off the tofu and rice cakes.

Throw out the comfort clothes like sweats, tshirts, running shoes, hair ties etc etc. If you're not an actual lesbian, don't even think of having Birkenstocks in the house.

Get a new wardrobe of form fitting (assuming you have good form. if not, deal with that first) stylish, fitted cloths that a stylish, good looking heterosexual man has said you look good in.

A homosexual man can help you with things hair, nails, assessories and determining what is an appropriate style for you, but you need an actual heterosexual male that can tell you if he would actually want to jump you or friendzone you.

- SEXY: This is probably where you need to focus the most since we are dealing with friendzone issues here. You need to bump up the sexy.

back off the church girl and bump up your inner stripper a little. Guys are kind of dense and they don't notice what you think they notice. You are going to have to go out of your comfort zone and push your own personal boundaries of behavior. What other women will think is over the top brazen and slutty behavior, most men won't even notice that.

If you aren't threatening other women and getting the snake-eye from other women, you aren't trying hard enough.

If 40 year old women are complimenting you on what a responsible and dignified and quality woman you are, you are downright shooting yourself in the foot (which better have a shiny new pedi and a toe ring or two)

If you aren't feeling like you are taking it too far with the flirting and the hair flipping and eye-batting and the giggling at their stupid jokes, you aren't trying hard enough.

don't be afraid to talk about sexual topics. Don't be afraid to use or point out other people's double-entondras (I don't know how to spell it)

Use sexual innuendos.

If your shoes are comfortable and don't show off your pedi and toe rings, toss them.

If your shirts don't at least hint at cleavage, put it back in the closet and try another one. Push up bras help.

If you don't have a belly roll, a shirt/shorts combo that gives a slight glimpse of your belly when your raise your arms or a glimpse of the small of your back when you bend over, you'll be good to go.

A visible tramp stamp when you bend over will completely seal the deal.

-FEMININITY; If you had used the term "..just one of the guys..." here I would have really hammered this point but since you didn't, we'll just cover the basics.

In general you probably need to become a little more girly. Wear more feminine, sexy clothes. Uncomfortable but sexy shoes.

Longer hair is always is always better than shorter hair. If you aren't Dorothy Hamil, you aren't going to look good in Dorothy Hamil hair. If you are too you to even know who Dorothy Hamil is then you have absolutely no business cutting your hair at all unless your girlfriend down at the lesbian bar wants you to.

Never belch, fart, scratch your armpits, clip your nails, floss your teeth or readjust your pants in the presence of a man. And never ever EVER let a man see you go to the bathroom. EVER. I don't care if you've been married 20 years and he's seen four ten pound babies come out of your crotch, never let him see you take a dump.

Readjusting your boobs in the presence of a man in a bar may be ok as long as it is to make them more visible.

Never try to cover them up or make them less visible. If some dude is making you uncomfortable or you just don't want him to see them, then get away from the dude. don't cover up the cleavage.

And finally a huge and critical part of femininity and getting out of the friendzone is never treat a dude like other dudes treat him. Don't be one of the guys. Don't tease him, talk down to him, talk smack to him. Don't disrespect him in any way. Compliment him on what he does well, but don't bust his balls on what he doesn't do well.

What separates a man's special someone from the rest of the human race is romance, sexuality and respect. If you are flirty, sexy, romantic and respectful, he will be smitten. If you are smacking his ass with a towel and busting his balls like the other dudes, he will see you as one of the dudes.

I hate to break this simple fact to you, but if you want to be some guys girlfriend, you can't be one of his buddies.

Chicks make great girlfriends but the best buddy a chick can ever be is mediocre at best. if you want out of the friendzone, you are going to have to be more girlfriend material and less buddy material.

June 22, 2015

And here are a few other pertinent factoids in no particular order -

- there is no such thing as "emotionally unavailable." That is chick-speak for a guy that is not into them. Guys are not emotionally available or unavailable. They are either into you or not into you.

- When and how they split up from their last chick doesn't mean diddly squat. It's are you hotter and more compatible with them than their last chick or not.

They could've broken up over breakfast this morning but if you are prettier, sexier and more compatible with them than their ex, you are good to go. The ex will be a distant memory by supper time.

Sorry, I know that's harsh but it's the truth.

If some schmuck is on a date with you and he is crying in his beer about his XGF that dumped him 6 months ago, he is either a psycho that needs some serious therapy or she was hotter than you. period.

If you are hotter, sexier and have better chemistry with him than his X, you'll be one of these chicks that's whining on here complaining that you just found out he was engaged to be married to some gal he'd been dating since 10th grade and you didn't even know he had had a serious GF before.

All this other crap about people needing healing and getting over some ex etc etc is all mostly salve that people tell themselves and others about why a few dates didn't work out.

The truth is, most dates just simply don't work out because chemistry wasn't there or people just simply weren't all that compatible.

People always seem to miraculously heal over night when someone else comes along that knocks their socks off.

Now that doesn't mean that everyone all works out long term in the end or that they ride off into the sunset together. Relationships are very complex and nothing is every guaranteed.

But it does mean that this whole "getting over the ex" thing is grossly over emphasized.

June 22, 2015

Lol she doesn't need a tan.

I am white and men think it looks hot on me.

June 23, 2015

And I suffer from the opposite problem this the op... I have amazing sexual chemistry with men who don't want to date me because they can sense I have issues and the timing isn't right for us.

It doesn't feel that much better being the girl that men have great chemistry with but still don't fall head over heels for due to reasons beyond attraction.

You can work on your sex appeal. I have to work on my personality and mental health.

All women have barriers to finding healthy relationships. Looks are yours, I'm sure you're pretty to plenty of men but you're just not finding the men who lust after you. Where as I DO find the men who feel the hot chemistry for me but who still can't call for me enough to make me a gf..........

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Why am I always the "really nice" girl but not date worthy? It's discouraging...

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