Woggle Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 Nothing wrong with this. The upside is that once you earn the trust of somebody like this they are usually very loyal. 2
todreaminblue Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 i think guarded means taking time making sure that you are letting in the right people to your inner circle...or giving all of you to someone you completely trust...when i feel i have to be guarded its because i dont completely trust the person i am talking too or communicating with....doesnt mean i wont trust them...but that complete trust isnt there yet..deb
Keenly Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 Keenly, I certainly hope you are right on this point. I'm not one to hunt and dig after someone though so I am a little concerned that this is what it will feel like. I wear my heart on my sleeve and sometimes overshare. If you are right, then we might be complete opposites. Just because he is guarded does not mean he would not be completely affectionate and devoted once he realizes you are not going to chew him up and spit him out. Just go slow, what have you got to lose? 1
jen1447 Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 Exactly. Like someone said above, your heart is either open or closed. Why would anyone want to deal with this? It's unfair. We've all been hurt, I don't know why someone would think they are more entitled to extra work and more withholding than me. They just aren't ready for a R then. The thing is P, levels of hurt can vary widely. One person's hurt may be a bump in the road while another's is a near-death experience. Guarded = trust issues in practical terms. That wall can be battered down fairly quickly if you're determined (I did that w/BF), but it has special risks, not the least of which are for him. If you go all out to win him over, you better be damn sure you actually want him bc knocking down his protections and then leaving him exposed and high and dry could kill him. (Assuming he's at the far end of the trust issues spectrum.) 1
Halcyon Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 (edited) Ok, but have you come out and told anyone that you are "guarded"? Or are you just cautious around strange people? Do you feel the need to say anything re how you act? I've never told anyone I'm guarded or at least used the word guarded, I've told people that I'm very interested in them but it can take me a bit of time to warm up to most people though and I'm happy to answer any questions they may have. Thanks Halycyon. Do you think it would be weird if I asked him what he meant when he said he was guarded b/c I have dated men in the past who are emotionally unavailable and I would rather not do that again? I am a straight shooter myself. Do you think this question, if asked of you would be too much too fast? Nope I think it would be find if he's straight and honest like you said. It wouldn't bother me in the slightest. I had this conversation a few weeks ago with my now girlfriend. She is friends with my best friends wife so she kind of took advantage of that and talked to my best friend about me after our first few dates. She told me this recently: She really liked me but was confused by me because usually guys are all over her within the first few dates. I really liked her as well and was trying my best to be more open but apparently that was still slow compared to most who just dive in. My friend told her that I'm reserved, guarded (for various reasons I don't really want to go into here) in who I place my trust in and I'm naturally wary of new people until I get to know them. That once I let people in I'm the most caring, loyal and patient person he knows. That the best way to get me to open up is to be honest about what you want and expect. That I don't tolerate games or bull**** in general. She did exactly that was open and honest about how she felt and in return I now feel very comfortable around her in expressing how I feel. Communication is key above all else. Exactly. I think sometimes people project their insecurities too much. Note how 'guarded' became 'married' within a couple of pages. There is nothing wrong with being guarded as long as communication is open. Not everyone wears their heart on their sleeve and jump in. In my experience guarded people are often less shallow. Yes the guarded must = married didn't make much sense to me at all and I would say I'm the opposite of shallow. Sure there needs to be attraction between us but I've turned down women before who were for all intensive purposes physically beautiful but had horrible personalities which is more important to me. Edited June 18, 2015 by Halcyon 1
Popsicle Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 (edited) The thing is P, levels of hurt can vary widely. One person's hurt may be a bump in the road while another's is a near-death experience. Guarded = trust issues in practical terms. That wall can be battered down fairly quickly if you're determined (I did that w/BF), but it has special risks, not the least of which are for him. If you go all out to win him over, you better be damn sure you actually want him bc knocking down his protections and then leaving him exposed and high and dry could kill him. (Assuming he's at the far end of the trust issues spectrum.) Someone at the far end of the trust issues spectrum would never trust another person again. Ever. They may pretend to trust though (because they desperately want to), but quickly their mistrust starts to show and never goes away. They can't control it and it is very distressing to them. They are not proud of it and usually keep it to themselves. Someone who is won over or can be won over (without it taking at least a decade) just wants extra attention and for the other person to do all the work because they think their heart is more fragile than the other persons, so much so that they can't risk it to mutually give to the other person. I call shens on that. Your heart is no more special or fragile than mine. Love is always a gamble. Edited June 18, 2015 by Popsicle 1
kendahke Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 Someone who is won over or can be won over (without it taking at least a decade) just wants extra attention and for the other person to do all the work because they think their heart is more fragile than the other persons, so much so that they can't risk it to mutually give to the other person. I call shens on that. Your heart is no more special or fragile than mine. Love is always a gamble. Perfectly said. There are no guarantees in life. Resolve your issues before getting back out in the dating scene. Emotionally fragmented people want the other to pick up all of their pieces when they're the ones who needed to have done that before entering into a new potential relationship. 2
serial muse Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 (edited) Someone who is won over or can be won over (without it taking at least a decade) just wants extra attention and for the other person to do all the work because they think their heart is more fragile than the other persons Yeah, this is my thought about this too. I'm a "guarded" person (as are many of us) but certainly have never felt the need to announce that fact on a date - in fact, I find doing so rather contradictory. It does sound attention-seeking to me. I get that, in theory, all the person seems to be doing is being honest. But IME - and I do make that caveat - whenever someone has said something in that vein to me, it turned out to mean exactly what Popsicle said, above: "I want you to work harder because I think I'm more fragile emotionally than you are." That seemed romantic when I was younger and interested in being the special person who could find the key to open up someone's heart, etc. Now it just sounds a bit tiresome, to me. People ought to meet each other in the middle. That said, I'd take it as a pink flag, not a red one. I'm quite aware that it's a bit of a cliche and so therefore, someone might just pop out with that phrase without it actually meaning all that much by it. It sounds "interesting", I guess. So I'd note it and take it under advisement, and perhaps remember it and allow it to soothe me for a little while if I felt that the person wasn't opening up to me particularly rapidly. That's only for a little while, mind - at a certain point everyone's cards need to be on the table. But I would not take it to mean that I now I've got to kick up my game to get this special snowflake guarded person to trust me. Because, no. I mean, come on. Edited June 18, 2015 by serial muse 1
Emilia Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 When I read threads about people that are honest about who they are, every time I'm reminded why men who lie do so well.
serial muse Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 When I read threads about people that are honest about who they are, every time I'm reminded why men who lie do so well. My issue with this "I'm guarded" business though is that I don't think it IS honest. It's manipulative. And I think that people who utter this phrase tend to do very well with women indeed. Because it works. 1
Emilia Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 My issue with this "I'm guarded" business though is that I don't think it IS honest. It's manipulative. A manipulative person doesn't say things that rock the boat.
Redhead14 Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 The truly important thing in this scenario is WHAT IT MEANS TO HIM AND FOR HER IF THEY CONTINUE TO DATE EACH OTHER. She didn't inquire further. She left the table without clarity and without a more concrete set of information to make a decision about him. She perhaps wasted her opportunity for a potential dating partner. If you leave the date with a significant question or a bunch of questions, you're not communicating or screening effectively. If you leave with those kinds of things, you should go on another date at least to try to resolve them in your mind if they ask you. If someone makes a statement like that, that is your cue to explore what it is they want from their dating experiences. That is the primary screening point in any new dating scenario. You want to make sure that the two of you are on the same page about dating goals as soon as possible. The Number 1 reason to move on from a new dating partner is that you aren't on the same page in terms of goals. Once that has been clarified, the rest is a little easier. 1
serial muse Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 A manipulative person doesn't say things that rock the boat. A manipulative person says things to draw someone in further and entice them to act in the desired way. I mean, it's a total cliche, but it does work, unfortunately. I'm not saying anything earth-shattering here. Many, many women are attracted to the idea of a brooding man that they can "open up". Them's the facts. 2
kendahke Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 My issue with this "I'm guarded" business though is that I don't think it IS honest. It's manipulative. and passive aggressive, to be honest. 2
serial muse Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 The truly important thing in this scenario is WHAT IT MEANS TO HIM AND FOR HER IF THEY CONTINUE TO DATE EACH OTHER. She didn't inquire further. She left the table without clarity and without a more concrete set of information to make a decision about him. She perhaps wasted her opportunity for a potential dating partner. If you leave the date with a significant question or a bunch of questions, you're not communicating or screening effectively. If you leave with those kinds of things, you should go on another date at least to try to resolve them in your mind if they ask you. If someone makes a statement like that, that is your cue to explore what it is they want from their dating experiences. That is the primary screening point in any new dating scenario. You want to make sure that the two of you are on the same page about dating goals as soon as possible. The Number 1 reason to move on from a new dating partner is that you aren't on the same page in terms of goals. Once that has been clarified, the rest is a little easier. I agree with this - and perhaps the appropriate thing to ask someone who says that would be, frankly, "I'm not sure how to react to this. What exactly do you mean by that?"
kendahke Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 A manipulative person says things to draw someone in further and entice them to act in the desired way. I mean, it's a total cliche, but it does work, unfortunately. I'm not saying anything earth-shattering here. Many, many women are attracted to the idea of a brooding man that they can "open up". Them's the facts. Exactly. Renovation projects are very enticing...
Emilia Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 A manipulative person says things to draw someone in further and entice them to act in the desired way. I mean, it's a total cliche, but it does work, unfortunately. I'm not saying anything earth-shattering here. Many, many women are attracted to the idea of a brooding man that they can "open up". Them's the facts. Yes people can be attracted to dysfunction, that's not my point. Those men don't set expectations however, THAT is the point. He hasn't even slept with her, how is he going to achieve that if that's all he wants and he is being 'difficult' already? Think about it. Men who play the vulnerable card come out with it later and they don't initiate the conversation. There is no one size fits all.
serial muse Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 Yes people can be attracted to dysfunction, that's not my point. Those men don't set expectations however, THAT is the point. He hasn't even slept with her, how is he going to achieve that if that's all he wants and he is being 'difficult' already? Think about it. Men who play the vulnerable card come out with it later and they don't initiate the conversation. There is no one size fits all. OK, but my point is that it isn't about dysfunction, it's about "romance" and this romantic cliche that a reserved guy is in want of a woman to "get" him. He's not setting an expectation by saying it, he's setting a challenge. Being "difficult" rarely seems to prevent anyone from getting laid, man or woman. It's a pretty well-worn attraction strategy.
Keenly Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 2015, where honesty is manipulative, caution means infidelity, and going slow means malevolent plotting. 1
Emilia Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 OK, but my point is that it isn't about dysfunction, it's about "romance" and this romantic cliche that a reserved guy is in want of a woman to "get" him. He's not setting an expectation by saying it, he's setting a challenge. Being "difficult" rarely seems to prevent anyone from getting laid, man or woman. It's a pretty well-worn attraction strategy. This is where actually meeting him would determine his character, it's hard without that to decide. There has been no sex, not much oxytocin, the
Emilia Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 OK, but my point is that it isn't about dysfunction, it's about "romance" and this romantic cliche that a reserved guy is in want of a woman to "get" him. He's not setting an expectation by saying it, he's setting a challenge. Being "difficult" rarely seems to prevent anyone from getting laid, man or woman. It's a pretty well-worn attraction strategy. This is where actually meeting him would determine his character, it's hard without that to decide. There has been no sex, not much oxytocin, the OP should have a clear enough mind to see whether they can make this work. This is the problem with LS, people project their own experiences too much.
Emilia Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 2015, where honesty is manipulative, caution means infidelity, and going slow means malevolent plotting. I know. How sad.
Redhead14 Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 I agree with this - and perhaps the appropriate thing to ask someone who says that would be, frankly, "I'm not sure how to react to this. What exactly do you mean by that?" The OP mentioned that she didn't want to make the date get too serious. She didn't have to approach it that way. Just be light about how you talk about it and say "you know I'm kinda guarded too, especially when I like the person ." And, then say "what are you looking for out of dating for yourself?" It's a little better if you can let the other person tell you first. Because if you tell them what you're looking for first, they may just tell you what you want to hear. If it happens to go that way, that is where your real dating and observation skills come in. If they say they want the same thing themselves, you need to observe and "monitor' so to speak the way they date you. If the date you properly, are respectful of your time, consistent with communication and there's quality, then you have a better sense of whether they told you the truth
serial muse Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 (edited) The OP mentioned that she didn't want to make the date get too serious. She didn't have to approach it that way. Just be light about how you talk about it and say "you know I'm kinda guarded too, especially when I like the person ." And, then say "what are you looking for out of dating for yourself?" It's a little better if you can let the other person tell you first. Because if you tell them what you're looking for first, they may just tell you what you want to hear. If it happens to go that way, that is where your real dating and observation skills come in. If they say they want the same thing themselves, you need to observe and "monitor' so to speak the way they date you. If the date you properly, are respectful of your time, consistent with communication and there's quality, then you have a better sense of whether they told you the truth Yes, of course. I suppose I'm feeling a bit eye-rolly at how people are being dismissive and implying that somehow honesty is not prized in the modern age [GASP], like that's the issue here. That's a silly misreading of what's actually being said. One may disagree on whether or not the phrase is honest - fair enough - but to suggest that this is about not liking honesty? Oh, get real. So I suppose I'm responding more sardonically than I otherwise would. As I said, it would be a pink flag to me. Frankly, I probably wouldn't challenge it directly, if someone said that to me nowadays, because as I said upthread, I wouldn't know how to take it and would reserve judgment on it (because I actually am guarded and wouldn't want to delve into something potentially emotionally conflicted so soon, or reveal my own feelings about it without having more of a sense of the other person; hey, that's what "guarded" really looks like). But I agree that it's then appropriate to ask what that person does want out of dating, and of course as you said, observe their actions going forward. Edited June 18, 2015 by serial muse 2
Redhead14 Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 (edited) Yes, of course. I suppose I'm feeling a bit eye-rolly at how people are being dismissive and implying that somehow honesty is not prized in the modern age [GASP], like that's the issue here. That's a silly misreading of what's actually being said. One may disagree on whether or not the phrase is honest - fair enough - but to suggest that this is about not liking honesty? Oh, get real. So I suppose I'm responding more sardonically than I otherwise would. As I said, it would be a pink flag to me. Frankly, I probably wouldn't challenge it directly, if someone said that to me nowadays, because as I said upthread, I wouldn't know how to take it and would reserve judgment on it (because I actually am guarded and wouldn't want to delve into something potentially emotionally conflicted so soon, or reveal my own feelings about it without having more of a sense of the other person; hey, that's what "guarded" really looks like). But I agree that it's then appropriate to ask what that person does want out of dating, and of course as you said, observe their actions going forward. Well, here's the thing, he's says he's guarded, but he is at least open enough to put it out there. If he's made that leap for a person/woman, having it fall on deaf ears might just make him close up again. If she could at least give him some sense that she's heard him it's becomes a real opportunity to communicate on a little deeper level and soon. And, I wouldn't dwell on it for the entire date, just allow him to expand on it if he wants to. If he wants to that would be a good thing. He might just say, I like to take it a little slowly because of past hurt. There's nothing wrong with that as long as it's just a simple statement. Usually, it's about giving a heads up and allowing the other person to have a little bit of insight. However, if he starts to go on and on and on about his past relationship history and that all the women he's dated were crazy or stomped on him, what have you, the woman now has a bigger heads up as to what's going on with him right then and there. She's not making assumptions about what guarded means anymore, she gets it now. Another way to get a better "sense" about him and that issue, is to segue into family and history. She could start talking about her family and childhood. Talk about fun things they did or funny things that have happened, etc. If he doesn't contribute or gets quiet about that or changes the subject, he may have some relationship issue with them, poor childhood, etc. Then she has at least another piece of information about his being guarded. If he's contributing and sharing in a enthusiastic way, it's less likely to be that he is emotionally unavailable. Talking about family, etc. is often a topic of discussion between new dating partners early. It's just fun and that's all they are really thinking about at the time. But they don't often realize the value of that information. Having a quality/family/social life is not just about that, it's a sign of emotional health. There is so much to be gleaned from conversations on a first date and second date that people don't realize the value of on a deeper level. Edited June 18, 2015 by Redhead14
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