She put a spell on me.

[Confusedbythisgirl]

This is my first post in this site. A friend of mine suggested that I post on here and I am glad I found it!

 

Anyways, for the last 5-6 months I have been on and off with this girl. Let me first say that I have been in many relationships before so this was not my first rodeo. However, I have been single the last 3 years because I am a musician and my schedule hardly permits having one.

 

I met this girl through my drummer. It all started when she came to one of my shows with one of her friends that liked me. Her and I fell for each other instead of her friend and I.

 

As we started talking she told me up front about how she was 3 years sober. She used to be an alcoholic and a heroin addict. She is 23 years old and has been doing quite well with her sobriety. Obviously her past was a big red flag and I never imagined that I would date someone who used to be a heroin addict. I myself have never had a past with drugs or alcohol. I overlooked her past and thought that she deserved a chance. Especially since she now works at a transformation center and sponsors other addicts that are first starting there sobriety. She has completely changed her life around. She was also very beautiful and you would never guess that she once was a drug addict.

 

When her I first started dating her everything got very deep quick and her & I were moving at full speed. I did have a lot of walls up and was very hesitant about letting her into my heart. She always found a way to convince me that she would never hurt me and how she was so blessed to have me In her life. I felt very appreciated for the person I was and I only wanted to be an inspiration to her and try to better our lives together.

 

We did wait a little while before we had sex but even that happened fairly quick too. Everything started out great. She was always very honest with me and straight up with me about everything. She never gave me much to worry about. We spent a lot of time together I would always go stay the night with her after my shows and I pretty much lived with her. Our relationship was very sexual too and that stuff actually means a lot to me.

 

As time went by I started to find out things about her past that really bothered me. There was a sexual past, a horrible drug past, a past with abusive ex boyfriends, and some traumatizing events that happened when she was very young. The sexual past from when she was an addict was always very hard for me to cope with. It always bothered me about how she could have done some of the things she did. But I accepted all of the baggage because I firmly believe that she was a changed person. She was once very sick but totally changed as an individual and I was always so proud of her.

 

Besides having a problem with coping with her past we really had a great and normal relationship. Then one day she called me up and broke up with me randomly. We were at emotional high point and she just broke it off compleTely our of the blue. She told me that she was running, how I deserved better, and how she didn't feel herself which all came as a shock to me. I was devastated as I hung up the phone and saw how she blocked me on everything completely removing me from her life. I ended up getting really drunk that night with one of my friends and becoming pretty depressed.

 

For the next three weeks I was completely devastated and depressed. I had completely fallen in love with that girl and she just let me go out of no where. The whole time I knew that she was just running and that she was scared. I knew that it wasn't another man because I knew that she loved the person I am. She let me go because she was scared.

 

She ended up running back and begging for me back. I was very hesitant but ended up meeting her one night. Of course we made love again and it was amazing. We took things slow at first and then things were back to normal. We spent two weeks together completely in love again spending every waking moment together. Everything was great again. Then one night when I was watching a movie with her I noticed how she wasnt acting the same. She was not communicating with me as much for the last couple of days and things didn't seem right. So I decided to confront her about it instead of continuing to feel unwanted. She kind of freaked out saying things like "I don't feel" "I don't know what love is" "I don't like when you say nice things to me" things like that and then she finally just broke up with me. We didn't have a screaming argument or anything she just made an impulse decision to break up with me. I begged for over an hour for her not to do it but she was 100% set in her ways. It was an exact repeat of what she did the last time.

 

After that happened I was pretty angry about how she lied and said that she wouldn't hurt me like that again. She broke all our promises and ruined a lot of things we had planned for the future. I ran back to her the next day again saying how we shouldn't break up and she answered me once again with a very mean response saying how she was blocking my number.

 

We have been broken up for a little over a month and honestly my life has been great. I hadn't thought about her much and thought I was completely over her until she texted me two days ago. She sent my a nice text saying how she hoped I was doing well and how she was sorry for the things she said to me. She even sent my mother an email saying nice things to her as well. I could tell that she was hurting and that she missed me. I gave her a short response thanking her for the apology and that was it.

 

The next day it started to really bother me. I felt all these feelings come back that I thought were finally gone and I tried to resist texting her for two hours before I gave in. Of course when i texted her she explained out she missed me and how she was sick to her stomach because she's not with me. Then she tried to seduce me with sex which I came very close to giving in. I even got in my car and was about to drive to her apartment until her and I mutually agreed that it wasn't a good idea.

 

So I'm really messed up and confused by this girl. She is beautiful and she is a great person but there is another side to her. Almost like a dark side that haunts her. Unfortunately I still love her and to be quite honest I know that I probably shouldn't because I know that she is probably not the right person for me. I feel like it's a spell and I keep running back. She is a drug herself. I know that if I take her back everything will end the same way it did before. I think she may be just too damaged from her past to be in a relationship. I also think that too much damage has been done and that things won't be the same. I was set on moving on before her and I last talked. I even met another wonderful girl that I like that doesn't have half the problems she has. I want to pursue her but I can't if I am not over my ex. I want to be over her. I don't want to be under this spell anymore.

 

What is the best way to cope and move on in this type of situation? Thanks.

[Satu]

Welcome to Loveshack.

 

If you are under a spell, it's a spell you cast yourself.

 

Nobody can make you feel anything, and you can't make anyone else feel anything, either.

 

She seems to be a 'dry drunk,' which means that although she isn't using alcohol or drugs, there are issues remaining that are probably what caused her to start using in the first place.

 

She'd need to be on a well conceived recovery program, if those issues are to be resolved.

 

She's emotionally chaotic, and lacks boundaries, but that's not unusual in these situations.

 

The fact that she's not using deserves credit, but there's more she needs to do.

 

If she strongly commits to recovery, she can eventually build a good life.

 

As for you, just pursue a healthy lifestyle, and try not to let too much chaos enter your life.

 

Good luck.

[mightycpa]

First, listen to this:

 

https://youtu.be/9hvA0wWTIv4

 

 

and after that, get some discipline and self-control, and leave her alone.

 

That's step 1, and nothing gets better until you do that.

[Confusedbythisgirl]

First, listen to this:

 

https://youtu.be/9hvA0wWTIv4

 

 

and after that, get some discipline and self-control, and leave her alone.

 

That's step 1, and nothing gets better until you do that.

 

Hey man it won't let me watch the video for some reason but I do appreciate the advice

[Confusedbythisgirl]

Welcome to Loveshack.

 

If you are under a spell, it's a spell you cast yourself.

 

Nobody can make you feel anything, and you can't make anyone else feel anything, either.

 

She seems to be a 'dry drunk,' which means that although she isn't using alcohol or drugs, there are issues remaining that are probably what caused her to start using in the first place.

 

She'd need to be on a well conceived recovery program, if those issues are to be resolved.

 

She's emotionally chaotic, and lacks boundaries, but that's not unusual in these situations.

 

The fact that she's not using deserves credit, but there's more she needs to do.

 

If she strongly commits to recovery, she can eventually build a good life.

 

As for you, just pursue a healthy lifestyle, and try not to let too much chaos enter your life.

 

Good luck.

 

Thank you very much. You are actually spot on with all of that. What do uo think is the best option for me here out? Stop all communication completely?

[Downtown]

Confused, I agree with everything Satu said above. I will only add that the behaviors you describe -- i.e., lack of impulse control, rapid flips between Jekyll (adoring you) and Hyde (devaluing you), and always being "The Victim" -- are some of the classic warning signs for BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). Importantly, I'm not suggesting your exGF has full-blown BPD but, rather, that she might exhibit moderate to strong traits of it or another PD.

 

I caution that BPD is a "spectrum disorder," which means every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all BPD traits to some degree (albeit at a low level if the person is healthy). At issue, then, is not whether your exGF exhibits BPD traits. Of course she does. We all do. Rather, at issue is whether she exhibits those traits at a strong and persistent level (i.e., is on the upper end of the BPD spectrum).

 

Not having met her, I cannot answer that question. I nonetheless believe you can spot any strong BPD warning signs that are present if you take a little time to learn which behaviors are on the list. They are not difficult to spot because there is nothing subtle about behaviors such as very controlling behavior, always being "The Victim," and rapid event-triggered mood flips.

 

She ended up running back and begging for me back.... for the last 5-6 months I have been on and off with this girl.

The repeated cycle of push-you-away and pull-you-back -- a cycle which has repeated itself twice in only 5 or 6 months and which she tried to restart for a third time just two days ago -- is one of the hallmarks of a BPDer relationship. This is why BPDer relationships typically are characterized by numerous breakups before the final separation. A poll at BPDfamily, for example, found that 60% of the couples broke up and reconciled at least 3 times before finally separating. About a third of them did it at least 6 times before separating. And a fourth did it 10 or more times before ending the relationship.

 

We really had a great and normal relationship. Then one day she called me up and broke up with me randomly.

If your exGF really does exhibit strong BPD traits, that "great and normal relationship" can be expected to last 4 to 6 months, the normal length of the infatuation period. During this time, the BPDer's infatuation over you will convince her that you are the nearly perfect man who has arrived to rescue her from unhappiness. This infatuation, then, holds her two great fears (abandonment and engulfment) at bay because she cannot imagine that you will ever hurt her.

 

As soon as the infatuation starts to fade, however, both fears immediately return and you will start triggering them. At that point, she will suddenly push you away to escape the fear and pain. Yet, after a few weeks or months, her abandonment fear will be so great that she likely will try to reel you back into the relationship.

 

There was a sexual past, a horrible drug past, a past with abusive ex boyfriends.

It is common for BPDers (i.e., those having strong BPD traits) to exhibit impulsive behavior that gets them into trouble with drug abuse, binge spending, binge eating, and sexual promiscuity. Indeed, the lack of impulse control is one of the nine defining traits for BPD.

 

She always found a way to convince me that she would never hurt me and how she was so blessed to have me In her life..... I was pretty angry about how she lied and said that she wouldn't hurt me like that again.

If she really does have strong BPD traits, it is possible she lied but improbable. It is far more likely she told you those things during the honeymoon period because, being infatuated with you, she truly believed every word of it. Because BPDers have fragile unstable egos, they cannot tolerate experiencing strong mixed feelings, ambiguities, uncertainties, and other grey areas of interpersonal relationships.

 

They therefore categorize all the people they are close to (including themselves) as "all good" or "all bad." I explain how this "black-white thinking" occurs at a link provided below. For now, I will simply observe that a BPDer has an entirely different perception of you while splitting you "white" than she does when splitting you "black." She therefore will tell you things and make promises while you are "white" that will be entirely withdrawn -- if not entirely forgotten -- while you are considered "black." Significantly, in both of these states, a BPDer likely will truly believe the amazing statements coming out of her mouth. This is one reason BPD is said to be a "thought disorder."

 

I felt very appreciated for the person I was and I only wanted to be an inspiration to her and try to better our lives together.

If your exGF actually has strong BPD traits, your claim that you "felt very appreciated" almost certainly is a gross understatement. During the honeymoon period at the start of the relationship, a BPDer typically will treat her partner as God's gift to women. As I noted earlier, she will be so enamored of her "all white" partner that she will place him high on a pedestal. You therefore will have a long way to fall when her two fears return and you start triggering them.

 

We did wait a little while before we had sex but even that happened fairly quick too.

With BPDers, nearly everything "happens fairly quick." As I noted above, they typically have little control over their impulses. Indeed, they generally have poor control of all their emotions. This is why, when they become fearful, they don't know how to do self-soothing to calm themselves down. Although the rest of us learn that skill and other emotional skills in childhood, BPDers usually experience a trauma in early childhood that prevents them from acquiring these more mature forms of ego defense and emotional control.

 

Some traumatizing events that happened when she was very young.

As I said, BPDers typically experience a trauma in early childhood -- usually before age 5 -- that freezes their emotional development, leaving them stuck with the primitive ego defenses available to young children. This is why they rely so heavily on projection, denial, magical thinking, black-white thinking, and temper tantrums. In a recent study of 35,000 American adults, 70% of the BPDers reported that they had been abused or abandoned in childhood.

 

We didn't have a screaming argument or anything she just made an impulse decision to break up with me.

Yes, I realize that you've said nothing about seeing any temper tantrums, which are a key hallmark of BPDers. If your exGF actually is a BPDer, there are two likely explanations for your not seeing any temper tantrums. One is that your relationship lasted only 5 or 6 months, a period so short that many BPDers are still infatuated and thus do not yet start exhibiting temper tantrums and hissy fits.

 

Another possible explanation is that she is in the small subset of BPDers who are called "quiet borderlines" because they don't exhibit rage when they are fearful or angry (instead, they punish the partner with cold withdrawal and passive aggressive remarks). And, of course, an alternative explanation for the lack of temper tantrums is that your exGF simply is not a BPDer, i.e., does not exhibit a strong pattern of the warning signs.

 

I accepted all of the baggage because I firmly believe that she was a changed person. She was once very sick but totally changed as an individual and I was always so proud of her.

Hopefully, you witnessed a lasting, meaningful change because she is not really a BPDer. Yet, if she is a BPDer, CHANGE is exactly what you should be seeing because emotionally unstable people typically exhibit very strong behavioral changes every few weeks or few months. It therefore is extremely difficult to tell when a BPDer has made a permanent improvement. Like smokers who are always quitting and tossing the pack away every 6 weeks, BPDers usually will be seen exhibiting dramatic improvements periodically. Sadly, it is rare for these improvements to be lasting. Instead, what you're likely seeing -- if she has strong BPD traits -- is simply one more upswing in the never-ending roller coaster ride.

 

We were at emotional high point and she just broke it off compleTely out of the blue.

The "engulfment fear" I mentioned earlier is triggered during intimacy, at which time a BPDer will feel suffocated and feel like she is vanishing into your strong personality. At a conscious level, she will experience this fear as a suffocating feeling that you have caused due to your efforts to control her. This, then, is the primary reason that -- even though a BPDer craves intimacy like nearly everyone else -- she cannot tolerate it for very long.

 

The result is that a BPDer typically will start the very WORST fights immediately after the very BEST of times. This is why a glorious intimate evening will often be followed the next morning, if not that same night, by an argument designed to push you away. Similarly, it is common for a BPDer to create a nasty argument right in the middle of a great vacation spent on a cruise or in another country. Hence, if your exGF is a BPDer, it is not surprising she would chose to push you away exactly when you two "were at an emotional high point," as you say.

 

She told me that she was running... and how she didn't feel herself.

If she is a BPDer, her saying "she didn't feel herself" is a great understatement. Because BPDers never had an opportunity to develop a stable, strong sense of self in early childhood, they go through life "not feeling themselves" most of the time. Indeed, they don't know who they really are. This is one reason a BPDer will be attracted to a partner having a strong, stable personality that they can emulate -- thereby providing her with a borrowed self image (i.e., a false self image) that gives her a sense of direction and helps to ground her feelings somewhat.

 

I knew that she was just running and that she was scared. I knew that it wasn't another man because I knew that she loved the person I am. She let me go because she was scared.

If she is a BPDer, her greatest fear is abandonment. The other great fear is engulfment. The irony is that a BPDer sorely needs you to provide her with some semblance of self image and stability but, when you do exactly that, she will increasingly resent the "control" she believes you have over her. That irrational feeling arises from the engulfment fear.

 

So I'm really messed up and confused by this girl.

If you are only "messed up and confused," consider yourself very lucky if you really were dating a BPDer for six months. A large share of the abused partners of BPDers feel like they may be going crazy. Indeed, of the 157 disorders listed in the APA's diagnostic manual (DSM-5), BPD is the one most notorious for making the abused partners feel like they may be losing their minds.

 

It is very disorienting to date a person who, in ten seconds, can flip from adoring you to devaluing you. If you don't realize what you're dealing with, your natural reaction is to mistakenly conclude that -- if you can only figure out what YOU are doing wrong -- you can restore her to that wonderful woman you saw at the beginning. This is why therapists typically see far more of those abused partners -- coming in to find out if they are going crazy -- than they ever see of the BPDers themselves.

 

I feel like it's a spell and I keep running back.

No, as Satu explains so clearly, your exGF holds no such power over you. You are choosing to run back.

 

She is a drug herself.

No, your drug of choice is not the woman but, rather, "vulnerability" -- which is "catnip" to guys like us. We can spot it across a crowded room. Like me, you likely are an excessive caregiver whose desire to be needed far exceeds your need to be loved. You therefore find yourself walking right on past all the emotionally stable women (BORING) until you find one who desperately needs you. It is a heady experience to be treated like "The Rescuer" when we find another wounded bird.

 

What is the best way to cope and move on in this type of situation? Thanks.

As Satu suggests, the best way to move forward is to drop the I-am-under-a-spell nonsense -- i.e., empower yourself by dropping the role of helpless victim and taking responsibility for your own choices and decisions. Indeed, you already started doing exactly that two days ago when you passed on your exGF's offer of sex and, instead, came here seeking advice. You made a wise decision not to take her back.

 

I also suggest that, if you ever feel strongly tempted to take her back -- or want to protect yourself from running into the arms of another woman like her -- you take a little time to learn what red flags to look out for. An easy place to start is my list of 18 BPD Warning Signs. If most of them sound very familiar, I would suggest you also read my more detailed description of them at my posts in Rebel's Thread. If that description rings many bells, I would be glad to join Satu and Mighty in discussing them with you.

 

Significantly, learning to spot these warning signs will not enable you to diagnose your exGF's issues. Only a professional can do that. Yet, like learning warning signs for stroke and heart attack, learning those for BPD may help you avoid repeating the painful experience. Take care, Confused.

[ravfour4]

Hey Downtown, can you check out my NC Journey begins thread? I think my ex is BPD, especially with how she treated the rebound she hopped to right after me (3 recycles already with him). Id be interested to hear your very educated opinion.

[Confusedbythisgirl]

Downtown, thank you so very much for the detailed. Every single word you wrote about describes my ex. I firmly believe that she has this disorder and I strongly believe that she knows it as well. She mentioned many things you said about but never mentioned a disorder. She probably didn't want me to know. After reading your comment I must say that I finally have reached some closure. I felt like i was going insane and now I see why. It's a very sad. I will not be running back to her anymore. Thank you so much!!

[Downtown]

Confused, I'm glad to hear you found the information helpful. Given your belief that your exGF is exhibiting most BPD traits at a strong level, you now have a likely explanation as to why she showed such a dramatic turn-around in her life style while with you. As I noted, BPDers have such a fractured, fragile self image they do not know who they are. They therefore adopt the personality characteristics and likes and values of the people they happen to be around at the moment.

 

Contrary to what you'll read on many online sites, BPDers don't do that to draw you into a spiderweb and manipulate you (those are the narcissists and sociopaths). Rather, they do it out of simple necessity (i.e., not having an integrated self image) and out of a desire to fit in, be accepted, and be loved. Because they've been doing it since early childhood, they don't even know they are doing anything out of the ordinary.

 

I mention all this to explain why a woman who is such a straight arrow around you (Mr. Straight Arrow) could have been a drug abuser around Mr. Druggie, an abuse victim around Mr. Abuser, and a sex addict around a dozen other guys. If true, this means that -- contrary to your earlier belief -- you did not make her see the light and undergo a permanent change.

 

You therefore should not be surprised to hear that she is now dating a man who is totally different from you, perhaps even totally different from any man she ever dated before. Don't be surprised, for example, if she becomes a religious fanatic for a year or two.

 

BPDers have that natural ability to get along with a very wide variety of people. The adopted personality does not last very long with any one person, however, because the relationship is lose-lose for both parties. This non-win outcome occurs because the BPDer's two great fears lie at the opposite ends of the VERY SAME spectrum.

 

This means that, as you draw close to her with intimacy, you will start triggering her engulfment fear. Yet, as you draw back to give her breathing space, you inevitably will start triggering her abandonment fear. Importantly, there is no Goldilocks position in the middle -- between "not too close" and "not too far" -- where you can safely stand. I know because I foolishly spent 15 years looking for it with my exW.

[Downtown]

Hey Downtown, can you check out my NC Journey begins thread? I think my ex is BPD.

Be glad to, RAV4. I just posted my comments in your thread at http://www.loveshack.org/forums/breaking-up-reconciliation-coping/breaks-breaking-up/527189-nc-journey-begins-7.html#post6388078.