Fighting - When is too much?

[Denison]

So my wife and I have been together for 6 years, married for 2. No kids, just bought a house. We both have good jobs and live in a nice, middle class suburb of Washington, DC. Basically, at this point, we have relatively little to be generally stressed or anxious about. We don't have money issues (at least nothing serious), don't have kids yet, and really don't have any of those inevitable outside stressors that will surely come in our later years as our marriage progresses.

 

However, we fight a fair amount. Not a ton, not like every day or even every week, but enough, and when we do, it's always about really, really trivial things, and the fights always have the same exact cycle. I do (or don't) do something adequately enough, usually involving cleaning or some other mundane household chore, she tells me that I didn't do x, y, z in a nasty manner suggesting I was "misbehaving" or "insubordinate" in some way, I overreact, and suddenly we're cursing and calling each other names. I fully acknowledge my problem: I react very strongly. She often acknowledges that she was being way too nit-picky and apologizes, I apologize for overreacting, and we make up pretty quickly.

 

However, of late, her complaints have been getting more and more trivial, and my reactions have been more overblown. To be clear, our fights never even come close to any sort of verbal abuse, and certainly never gets physical. I never break things and I don't scream til my ears pop, but I definitely do get very defensive and angry. As an example of the increasingly trivial nature of the things she has snapped at me for, she prepared lunch for both of us one day and I mistakenly brought the lunch. They were the same exact thing, only mine was a little bigger. So, I brought the slightly smaller one to work, leaving her with the slightly bigger lunch. She got very upset and sent me a barrage of texts while I was on the train to work about it. Like clockwork, I see this as a tiny, and entirely innocent, mistake, and react accordingly...with anger at the fact that she would even bring up something to stupid to me. I left you with a slightly bigger lunch, just don't eat it all if you don't want to, I'm the one with the smaller lunch than intended! You get my drift.

 

The point I'm trying to make is that the foundation of our arguments are getting no more serious...I don't stay out late drinking with the buddies, neither of us have an inappropriate relationship with any of the opposite sex, there are no money issues, etc. There are no serious issues in our marriage that would warrant big fights. We've had many calm and frank talks about working around these issues. To my wife's credit, she has started to be much more calm and reasonable about little things...I forgot to put my dish in the dishwasher (which I usually remember to do?) No problem! Gently remind me instead of telling me I'm lazy. I cleaned the bathroom and you noticed a few spots I missed? No problem! Tell me next time please notice x and y. She has been mostly good about this, but still continues to nit-pick...and I'll say it...NAG. Since we started dating years ago, I worked hard to become more organized, cleaner and just generally a better partner. I'm a somewhat messy guy, so it takes real effort from me to be more orderly, and I've really been good in that regard. So while I'm obviously biased, her complaints are usually about very trivial things that should not lead to fights. I don't regularly leave a mess, or forget to do things that are expected of me.

 

We got in a bad fight last night about something stupid I did (or more accurately didn't do), and it turned into a huge blowout. I ended up giving up and just sleeping on the couch cause I was so angry I couldn't sleep next to her. We still haven't talked since last night, and we usually do a few times a day. I really don't think I can continue having the same argument over and over again...I'm not a bad guy, I treat her very well, and I get a hard time for such trivial things. What happens when we have real stressors in our life, like kids, or if we run into serious money issues or disagreements? What if I actually do make a pretty big mistake, like forgetting to do something that actually matters? If I was regularly messing up, I could see her complaints having merit, but it's always something totally isolated and minor. She doesn't say "you never do x, y, z even though I've asked you to multiple times." It's not that situation at all. I really think I'm at wits-end, and all of our calm and frank discussions have obviously borne no fruit. Help???

Edited June 10, 2015 by Denison

[MM1234]

If you guys are cursing at each other & calling each other names, that IS verbal abuse. So your arguments do indeed get abusive, even if it's just verbal.

 

To me, it sounds like your wife expects you to do things exactly like her. The only problem with that is that she will still find a reason to find fault with it. You aren't her & you will never be her, she needs to accept that. It sounds like learned behavior....did her parents come down on her a lot as a child?

 

Have you guys considered marriage counseling? It may help with the communication problem you guys are having.

[Denison]

Thanks for your response. I guess I should have clarified re: the "name calling". We say things like "you are being absolutely ridiculous right now!" and "you've GOT to be kidding me!", we don't actually call each other "@sshole" of "b1tch" or anything like that. I think it happened once, maybe one of us said "F You!" or something, and we promised to nver do that again.

 

Either way, I think you're right. Most of the time, her nit-picking simply comes down to the fact that we're different and we do things differently...only she perceives my way of doing something, or my decision not to do something at all, as "wrong"...when it's just different. Some things are black and white, like leaving a mess or cleaning up after yourself, but the stuff I get a hard time for is the grey area stuff...should we pack up our winter clothes in storage, or leave them in the closet? Should we run the dishwasher now, or tonight after dinner? Stuff like that. To be fair, she doesn't always give me a hard time about that type of stuff, but those are literal examples of things we've fought about simply because she disagreed with my position on something.

 

We've had frank and calm discussions, both agreeing to work on our issues...again, mine being overreacting and hers being nit-picking about things that are too trivial and/or honest mistakes, as opposed to patterns or purposeful behavior. Only the fights haven't stopped. I think counseling is the next step. We are deeply in love and have a passionate relationship built on trust and respect...but these fights are seriously making me think that things will only get worse.

[d0nnivain]

It's hard sometimes to learn to bite your tongue when the other person does things differently & you perceive them to be "wrong." I know it's hard for me.

 

Early on in our relationship, we'd only been dating a few months, I asked DH to pick up potato chips & onion dip on his way over. He showed up with plain chips (no ridges) and some horrid dip in a can with a pull top lid that could be served at room temperature. I snapped at him asking why he didn't get the refrigerated dip in the milk aisle by the sour cream. He'd never heard of it. The next time we were in the store I literally had to show him it existed & why the stuff that could survive a nuclear attack was disgusting.

 

About a year later I asked him to pick up green & yellow squash. He came over with an acorn squash & a spaghetti squash which although the right colors were not what I asked for. I really had to take several deep breaths to avoid asking "what are you stupid?"

 

When you love somebody you don't want to demean them when you disagree. You both need to learn to fight fair & disagree without being disagreeable.

[beach]

Thanks for your response. I guess I should have clarified re: the "name calling". We say things like "you are being absolutely ridiculous right now!" and "you've GOT to be kidding me!", we don't actually call each other "@sshole" of "b1tch" or anything like that. I think it happened once, maybe one of us said "F You!" or something, and we promised to nver do that again.

 

Either way, I think you're right. Most of the time, her nit-picking simply comes down to the fact that we're different and we do things differently...only she perceives my way of doing something, or my decision not to do something at all, as "wrong"...when it's just different. Some things are black and white, like leaving a mess or cleaning up after yourself, but the stuff I get a hard time for is the grey area stuff...should we pack up our winter clothes in storage, or leave them in the closet? Should we run the dishwasher now, or tonight after dinner? Stuff like that. To be fair, she doesn't always give me a hard time about that type of stuff, but those are literal examples of things we've fought about simply because she disagreed with my position on something.

 

We've had frank and calm discussions, both agreeing to work on our issues...again, mine being overreacting and hers being nit-picking about things that are too trivial and/or honest mistakes, as opposed to patterns or purposeful behavior. Only the fights haven't stopped. I think counseling is the next step. We are deeply in love and have a passionate relationship built on trust and respect...but these fights are seriously making me think that things will only get worse.

 

Of course the obvious suggestion would be to hire cleaning help - BUT, the real issue is the manner in which she delivers her displeasure with you and how it escalates.

 

How about getting a therapist to help with suggestions on communicating in a more respectful and calm manner?

 

If it were me - and things didn't change or have solid basis that the communication would get better - I'd move out ASAP! Being degraded and verbally attacked is not acceptable in any healthy relationship!

 

Moving out might allow her to understand fully well how serious this is - and how much you deem the way she participates as perfectly unacceptable to you.

 

By making a change - she will either be forced to make changes herself or not. And what she does or doesn't do with your next move will determine whether she prioritized your marriage or prioritizes cleaning and being angry at you.

 

Is it possible she thinks she holds more power over you if she finds things she wants to be mad about?

[pondhawk]

It sounds as if your marriage needs conflict/resolution strategies that both can agree on.

She definitely should choose her battles wisely...not everything is a reason to nit pick. And you need to not be the gas that fuels the fire.

 

My ex was a hot head. Anything I said turned into a raging scream fest by him. We ended up both hurt and nothing was resolved but resentment. My new hubby is so calm in the midst of strife. He will look at me and say, "Ok I hear what you're saying. I'm sorry. I will do ____ differently."

 

Now there have been several times where I was out of line and new hubby will do the same thing. Calmly look at me and say (without raising his voice) "Ok, I hear what your saying about xyz, however do you think that you may be a little out of line? Try looking at it from zyx angle..."

 

The point is, if he's really calm there's nothing to fight against. He's in control.

 

Best of luck!

[loveboid]

I think she needs conflict resolution skills. She should talk to a counselor and/or read some books. You should too in dealing with her.

 

This is overly critical behavior in my opinion and is one of the death knells of divorce or any type of relationship ending.

 

Maybe you have undiagnosed ADHD and she doesn't know how to handle it?

 

I would ask her what she thinks the underlying problem is. Have you already?

[Denison]

Ha, I'm not really sure where the "ADHD" suggestion came from, but in regards to her, I think she's just a relatively high strung person. She's fun and lovable, not prickly, but she's a bit controlling about relatively minor things, and obviously gets frustrated and anxious pretty easily. Her mom is a great woman but VERY controlling, and I'm starting to think that she has inherited some of those traits. I try to find a middle ground between being a push over and being reasonable and flexible. That's becoming increasingly difficult though. I already gave the lunch example...another time she got angry at me because I cleaned the floor and I didn't clean it "well enough." Basically, she gives me very little credit for all the things I DO, whether it's the small stuff or the big-picture stuff like working hard in my career, and instead focuses on things she thinks I DON'T do, or am doing "wrong". She often says stuff like, "well I did x, y, z today and you only did x." Well, why does it have to be a competition? Just yesterday, I did a bunch of stuff, and you seem to be entirely forgetting about all of that, instead focusing only on what happened today? It's just very frustrating, and I"m getting exhausted constantly defending myself and having to point out things I've done, or tell her why the way I'm doing somethign IS useful and not pointless or selfish or wasteful. Maybe this is just an entirely unmendable difference between us that we have to just live with. We've had so many talks about changing this yet it still happens. I love her very much and don't want to split up or anything because of this, but there is absolutely no doubt that this aspect of our relationship needs to change. Big stressors will begin to find their way into our lives, and we have to be strong and not fight about them. Kids, money, maybe some more serious relationship issues down the road. If we fight about such trivial stuff, it makes me worried for the future.

[beach]

Ha, I'm not really sure where the "ADHD" suggestion came from, but in regards to her, I think she's just a relatively high strung person. She's fun and lovable, not prickly, but she's a bit controlling about relatively minor things, and obviously gets frustrated and anxious pretty easily. Her mom is a great woman but VERY controlling, and I'm starting to think that she has inherited some of those traits. I try to find a middle ground between being a push over and being reasonable and flexible. That's becoming increasingly difficult though. I already gave the lunch example...another time she got angry at me because I cleaned the floor and I didn't clean it "well enough." Basically, she gives me very little credit for all the things I DO, whether it's the small stuff or the big-picture stuff like working hard in my career, and instead focuses on things she thinks I DON'T do, or am doing "wrong". She often says stuff like, "well I did x, y, z today and you only did x." Well, why does it have to be a competition? Just yesterday, I did a bunch of stuff, and you seem to be entirely forgetting about all of that, instead focusing only on what happened today? It's just very frustrating, and I"m getting exhausted constantly defending myself and having to point out things I've done, or tell her why the way I'm doing somethign IS useful and not pointless or selfish or wasteful. Maybe this is just an entirely unmendable difference between us that we have to just live with. We've had so many talks about changing this yet it still happens. I love her very much and don't want to split up or anything because of this, but there is absolutely no doubt that this aspect of our relationship needs to change. Big stressors will begin to find their way into our lives, and we have to be strong and not fight about them. Kids, money, maybe some more serious relationship issues down the road. If we fight about such trivial stuff, it makes me worried for the future.

 

These are all more explanations of why it's so crappy... What about change? What do you plan to change?

 

Nothing changes if nothing changes. Change is up to you.

 

So, do you have something in mind that might change things?

[Denison]

Like I said in an earlier post, we've had discussions before. I need to work on how I react when these things happen. I get angry very quickly and it goes from a nag to a huge fight. We've talked about her working on not giving me a hard time about trivial things. We've both shown improvement at times but the fights still happen and they're basically always following this same pattern. I make an extra effort to clean and do stuff around the house, run errands, etc. I can't do any more on that front. What I can change myself is how I react. But if there's nothing to react to than it won't be an issue. It kinda starts and ends with her not giving me a hard time.in the first place but I'm starting to think she can't help herself.

[Satu]

It's sounds to me like you've got too much free time on your hands...

 

Fighting as a way of passing the time?

 

Maybe...

[berniev]

Tell her stop being a mother. "Mothering is smothering in a relationship!"

 

The house rule should be "if the person helps the house chore, the other party should shut up after saying thank you."

 

Also suggest you return the favor by nitpicking her mistakes.

 

Another commendament should be "You shall not criticize your spouse!"

 

If you haven't been asked to give an opinion and you have nothing nice to say, keep your mouth shut please.

Edited June 10, 2015 by berniev

[Keenly]

If she is nit picking little things when you clean, just tell her you won't help anymore.

 

If you don't clean, she will yell at you. If you do clean, she will yell at you that you didn't do it HER way.

 

 

Who wants to be involved in that.

[msmolecule]

Is it possible that she is upset with you about something else and the nitpicking is a passive aggressive way of expressing her anger/upset?

 

Have you tried asking her if something bigger is really wrong?

[beach]

You certainly have the right to tell her to get her own place - and that she can keep it as clean as she wants. You can keep your place however you wish.

 

That way you can see her when you want to and tell her not to express her opinion about your space.

 

Why does she get to be the one criticizing you? How would she like it if you criticized the way she did or didn't do everything?

 

It's a power play by her.

 

Another option is:

 

IF she wants it that clean - tell her to do it herself! That way it will be done how she likes it! Don't clean anything anymore if you stay living with her!

 

And also, if she wants to act like your Mother by nagging - tell her you won't have sex with her anymore either. No man wants sex with their Momma.

[Ninjainpajamas]

It sounds like she is generally displeased with the way you do things and conduct yourself, her blowups and overreactions or criticism are a case of scrutiny due to a general displeasure of how you behave, which is not to her liking.

 

But seems to be clearly controlling, that's something that was instilled for her mother and that's likely how she feels a sense of control and security over life, it gives her a sense of power...when you disrupt that with your inadequacies in forgetfulness or lessened focus on the attention to details...you really throw her for a loop and flip things upside down.

 

But you've also been with this woman for 6 years and married her 2 years ago...I doubt this is all just coming out from the sewer and a new toxic dynamic that just recently occurred, but if for some reason it has you need to connect the dots on that. Likely this has been something going on for quite a while, and frankly I just don't think she respects you that much...women tend to date men they can control that are like this and you've been maybe a puppet and necessity in her life at the same time.

 

She knows how you are by now so she likely always had a bone to pick with you on it, it's just getting worse for her too...and don't underestimate the stress level for her, you don't know how she takes in the situation and responsibilities...buying the house for her could be a very stressful situation, even without the kids and such.

 

Like most women, she probably just figured she could change you, or you would change or things would just magically improve and just moved on forward with the relationship like most couples do with their problems...hoping one day things just work themselves out, but they never do unless you're talking about 20 years later where you just become immune and conditioned to some of it.

 

Anyway, you need to talk about the situation and how you're both feeling...beyond the gripes and arguments, because there's something else lurking in the woods in this relationship, I think there is a general disatisfaction and maybe she's questioning her decision with this marriage...it depends, I'd have to know how she feels and understand the dynamic of the relationship, but either way, you need to talk to her and try to get to the bottom of this...if you're fighting, at least fight for something that could change things.

[d0nnivain]

I need to work on how I react when these things happen. I get angry very quickly and it goes from a nag to a huge fight.

 

You can't change her behavior. You have to change yours.

 

When she snaps at you, take a deep breath & whisper "did you hear what you just said to me & how you said it? I know [trivial thing] is annoying you & I know we hurt the ones we love but your words & tone really hurt me. I don't want to fight but I need to you to be kinder about expressing your displeasure." Repeat until she calms down.

 

You focus on keeping control of yourself & not shouting.

[GoBlue]

First and foremost you need to understand that conflict is a normal part of any relationship and it is especially prevalent in marriage. This means, of course, that the two of you are pretty normal in the grand scheme of things. Conflict in and of itself is not bad, it's how you handle it which determines whether your relationship will be strengthened or damaged as a result of its presence. There is a great book that deals with this subject titled Fight Your Way to a Better Marriage: How Healthy Conflict Can Take You to Deeper Levels of Intimacy by Dr. Greg Smalley. Another book I really like is Love and Respect for a Lifetime by Emerson Eggerich. Both of those resources can be found at most book stores.

 

I am also very familiar with some articles that deal with this issue. In one of them I found this helpful paragraph:

 

"...remember that it’s important to use “I” statements when sharing your feelings about the conflict – for example, “I feel hurt when you don’t follow through.” Avoid “you” statements like, “You’re so irresponsible.” Stick with the issue at hand and resist the temptation to support your argument by generalizing or following rabbit trails. Work hard to understand your partner’s point of view, and be sure to keep your discussion private. A public confrontation could humiliate your spouse and immediately place them on the defensive."

 

If you are interested in reading this article in its entirety, send me a private message. I don't usually post links in public threads. There are other articles that may help as well. In any event, please know that this is not a unique situation. All couples have to learn how to handle conflict, but there are occasions when professional counseling can help. Sitting with an unbiased third party can do wonders and help both of you see things from a more grounded perspective - as long as it is a safe environment. A Pastor, mentor, or therapist can help if you ever find yourself frustrated and in a rut.

 

I hope this has been helpful. Have a blessed day!

[devilish innocent]

You both seem to have anger management issues. I can't think of a reason why she would keep texting you about the sandwich unless she was angry. It also seems as though your anger feeds off of each other. Even though, you say you talk things out, there seems to be resentment growing which sets things up to be worse next time. It's a classic case of conflict escalation, which does usually lead to divorce.

 

You mentioned going to counseling, and I definitely think you should go that route. They say the longer a couple waits, the harder it can be to fix the relationship. Nip it in the bud now.

 

If she won't agree to marriage counseling, you could still try individual counseling for anger management by yourself. If one person changes the negative behavior, it can often help the other person come around. I know you're trying to work on doing more chores, but you seem to have a harder time keeping calm. The APA also has some good advice about handling anger management on their website: Controlling Anger -- Before It Controls You

 

I think marriage counseling would be best if that's possible though. Good luck with everything.