ForsakenSoul Posted April 27, 2005 Posted April 27, 2005 So, I've been looking at this site for the past few days, and it's done my heart some good. I especially appreciate No Foolin's Thread about no contact and the long dark path... So... I just opened an old email, and it made me break into tears... It was from my recent ex-girlfriend, and it said "This song makes me think of you... I love you Forsaken" And the song was VAST's "Flames" Feel free to google the lyrics. Anyway, I figured I'd share my story, maybe get some input, some perspective, perhaps some advice. It was a short, but extremely fiery romance, one of my best yet, and the first in a long time. We burned like magnesium put to the torch. Intense, bright, extremely powerful, but it seems... very shortlived in it's extreme nature. It all started a couple weeks before Thanksgiving, 2004. I was happy being single, having fun with friend, not going out nearly enough, but still very content. I had no one in my life, and didn't really have a problem with that. I am an avid computer gamer, and enjoyed doing that, as well as going out with friends, partying, playing music (I'm a vocalist, but I play guitar to accompany myself), listening to music, yo-yoing, which was a passion I re-picked up from my childhood, a year or so back, etc etc etc. Work was, and continues to go extremely well. I work for a great company, I live by myself in Orange County, I'm happy (whoah, was about to say "was happy"... I guess I'm getting happy again), I'm a bigger boy, but I think I'm attractive. I've got a darker look, sport a beard, got some natural curls going on if I let my hair get long enough. I'm a bit of an oddball, but tend to crack people up, if they comprehend my obtuse sense of humor. I'm intelligent, I laugh a lot, I wasn't looking for anything, or anyone, and wasn't sweating finding someone at all. Then BANG, she fell into my life. I'll just call her J. I was playing a game, World of Warcraft, in a "pre game release" environment, and randomly picked a "test server" to make a character on. I made my character, and for the next couple of evenings, after work, I'd play around in the game, and have fun. I had been waiting for this game for quite a while... Well, I ran into this girl, J, that I had known for a few years in a PREVIOUS game. I had had a bit of a "crush" on her, as we used to flirt back and forth in-game a fair bit. We used to say "I have this crush on you, but it's a secret, and you're not supposed to know"... Well, she was married at the time, but it was a very poor marriage. 12 years of marriage, and she says they had about 3 good years. Wow. Well, I randomly see her character name in this name game, and I send her a tell. "Excuse me, but would you happen to be this girl from EverQuest" And she replied back, OMG FORSAKEN BABY!! OMG!!!! Well, I end up joining her "guild" or "clan" and get all my friends to join as well. I have about 8 or so buddies who I know in RL, that I game with, and they were all stoked about the game as well. The game release comes out, and we all play together, and things are great. New friends, old friends, nerdly socializing, and having fun. Well, over the course of the next couple of weeks, J and I start talking a LOT! We just bull****, but enjoy talking to one another, and flirting with one another. We start talking about where we live, and it turns out she lives 80 mile south of me, in San Diego. She's like "YOU LIVE SO CLOSE!! VISITS ARE IN ORDER!!!". We had always wanted to meet each other, but I had chickened out of a few parties and stuff she threw down south, because I didn't really know her crowd. She keeps going on and on in chat to all the people online about how she's in heat, and wishes the gay guys at clubs she goes to would be straight. She talks about how horny she is and so on... I'm a human male, I live close, I start thinking about trying to hook up with her. She gave me her phone number, and a couple weeks later, I eventually get the nerve to call her on the phone... Well, we REALLY clicked, and really enjoyed talking to one another. Gametime started meaning less and less, and we spent more and more time on the phone. It was REALLY enjoyable, and really cool. We ended up spending hours and hours on the phone with each other, just talking about everything. Time would slip away, and we would both wonder what happened, six hours later, when it was two in the morning and we needed to go to sleep for work the next day. Sigh... I miss that so much... moving on.... I find out she's going through a divorce. And a lot of other things... Her soon to be ex-husband left her in September, 2004. Here it is two months later, and she's starting to be receptive to me. I think now I should've seen this as a warning sign. I find out that she had hooked up with another guy for like three weeks in October, and had him move in with her and her two kids, so he could start a new life in San Diego. He ended up screwing up and getting violent with her, and she kicked him to the curb. Well, her soon-to-be-ex had, over the course of 12 years, given her a black eye, verbally abused her, emotionally abused her, slacked off and not gotten jobs when he needed to, when they were almost without money, he took the last 20 bucks they had an bought weed, instead of milk, eggs, and bread to feed the two boys. A real piece of work. So when this OTHER dude got violent on her, she was like, LATER, GET THE HELL OUT. So I learn about this. I learn about her two boys, and how they have development issues, but are the jewels of her life. I learn how she can't regret the marriage too much, because she got her two wonderful kids from it. Well, I start to think, I'm a good guy, with a big heart, and a kind soul, maybe she just needs someone like me? We end up setting up a day to meet, December 14th, 2004. During all this time, I'm reading her Livejournal blog. Her livejournal details the past few years of her life, and is her therapy when things are bad. She starts writing things about me. Good things. Things that make me smile. I love reading what she writes about me. Little did I know, that livejournal account would come to torment me.... She comes up on the 14th, and ends up calling me from the gas station around the corner, joking about how her nerves of steel have morphed into jello. We joke a bit about me needing to come down and rescue her, and then she comes over. We hug like old friends, which, at this time, it felt to me like we were. I had known her for almost four years now, but just as online aquaintances. I bought her flowers, and it almost made her cry. We went to Laguna Beach for our first date, and just walked along the beach. The moon was a beautiful cheshire smile, and I serenaded her. We went to dinner, then later went back to my house, where I gave her the Jeff Buckley Grace collection cd set, and Jeff is one of her favorite artists. When I gave it to her, she almost cried again, and I made my move and kissed her. She just sank into me. It was such bliss... sigh.... ok move on dude... The third night togehter, I go down to her place, and meet her two children, and spend the night. Met the children on the THIRD night... I now see this as a warning sign. I end up loving those two boys, and really enjoying playing with them, and spending time with them. She tells me on the second time I go see them that I've already played with them more in the two days with them than their father had in the past two years. The next two months are incredible. We write poems to each other, we send each other songs and lyrics that show how we feel, we text each other all the time, we call each other all the time, it was so good... I truly was happier than I had been in a good long time. I wrote her long, beautiful emails, and she just ate it up, like a woman starved... We were seeing each other EVERY weekend. I am falling desperately in love with this woman. I hadn't been in a relationship in 8 years. I was ready. We start talking about marriage (too soon). We start talking about kids (too soon). She tells me I'm shattering everything bad she knows about men. She tells me she feels like we've known each other from another lifetime. She tells me many things that sound good.... so very good.... On the weekends, I would go down on Friday nights, and come home Sundays. I'd spend the day with her and the boys on Saturday, and Friday nights, we'd usually go have dinner with her parents. Her parents really like me, and are happy that their daughter has found a good person. Her mom tells me this. I work on their computers for them, I hook up electronics for them. I like hanging out with them So things are bliss, now we move on to the weekend after Valentines day, 2005... Her ex husband has since screwed her out of low-rent apartment, by sending an anonymous paystub from 2001 of her making more money than what was allowed to be living there. She now has to move, and has found a place across the street. The rent goes up 500+ dollars a month. This woman is holding down a part time job, because if she works MORE than a certain amount, her SSI support for the two boys will be gone, and she'll be screwed over. This man also rescinds his petition for her citizenship, as she is NOT naturalized, but is a Phillipine citizen ONLY. So she gets a letter from the government saying she can't work in the country anymore. This man does TERRIBLE things to her to try to "get her back" for the things she said in the divorce deposition. She's happier than she's been in a long time, from our relationship, but at the same time, still very hurt, and sad, and needing to work through things. So halfway through this weekend, which I had taken two days off from work to make happen... The Ex calls her on the phone. For the first time since he left. I hear the entire call. She's bitter, and angry, and the children, when invited to speak to their father, do NOT want to talk to him, as he had hurt them physically before he left. He sobs, and cries, and pleads, and she's not having ANY of it. Welp, the conversation ends eventually, and she's bitter, and we talk about it. At this point we were talking about everything. We move past it, and it's moving time. Well, I'm the boyfriend, I see it as my duty to move her ****. So I move her ****. I drive the uhaul, her mother and I load whatever I need help with, but I MOVE HER ****. This weekend, I was tired, cranky, bitter, and angry. I ended up having a bit of a breakdown where I go off to her about how much I hate her ex husband for everything he's done to her. I break down in tears when going off about how much I hate this man. I tell her she needs to work as much as she feels she needs to, and to chase that miserable leech down for child support. She says she's going to give him visitation, but supervised, at a local place that does such a thing. Then she tells me, he's going to come by Sunday and get his stuff. I go home Sunday morning, as I usually do, and later she calls me after he came and got his stuff, and told me about how she just broke down and cried at him, for leaving her, and for doing all the things he had done since then. He says he's sorry, and wants to get back together, over and over. She got through it, though... Well, over the next month, she starts getting emotionally distant from me. We start talking less, and it really feels like she's withdrawing... I'm not exactly sure why. She starts having her ex come over on Sundays, because he can't afford the supervised visit fees, and she wants her boys to know their father is still in their life. I read on her journal about how she realizes "How can I even THINK about starting a life with someone, when I don't even have mine together. How can I even THINK about being with another person, when I don't have things how they should be". Honestly, this scared me. But I undertood her position. Just out of a bad marriage, going through rough times, but I figure I can be there for her. I mean, she told me all these great things before, right? She a few days later, when we were talking on the phone, she says to me "can we slow things down a bit"? I'm like, ok, fine, could you maybe define "slow down a bit". She says, "can we not talk about kids, or the future, or marriage, for a while" I say to her, absolutely... three months into a relationship is NOT the time to be talking about those things anyway, but we had both agreed to just let things flow, as everything seemed so natural. Well, she starts pulling away further... I try to give her the space she needs, to find herself, and figure things out. I end up writing a long, heartfelt email about how I need to give her a break, and give her her space, and that she needs to figure things out, and please call me as soon as she feels right again. She calls me back at 6:50 the next morning, after reading it, and tells me it felt like someone punched her in the gut. You see, at times, I had wanted to talk about the relationship, and talk about how I felt in it. Everytime I brought up how I thought she was distancing herself, she would say "Don't talk like that! I can't hear it! you're making me think I'm ****ing somethign else up!!!" She'd get really defensive... Over time, it started feeling like I was walking on eggshells around her. The email was very loving and caring, but she took it poorly. We got past it though, not THAT big a deal. So we still end up hanging out the next weekend. In the game all this time, her old guild fell apart due to the difficulty of the server we were on, my friends all left and made their own guild. I didn't join my friends, as I wanted to stay with her. Once her guild disbanded, she joined my guild for a bit. She was with those other people for years. My friends don't bow and scrape to her at all, and she's used to people doing that. She gets pissy about my guild, and says they're not friendly, and they don't give her any respect, so she wants to go join her old friends. I follow her there to that other server and make a character. The first night we had played, it was awesome, and she was still flirty in chat and calling me babe... The guild knew we were boyfriend/girfriend. As time goes on though, she seems to start resenting my presense. I asked her how she was doing one night, and she said "****ty, completely ****ty, thanks for asking" or something like that. I was like "ok, well, sorry to bother you then, I'll leave you be. Which gets responded to with a "If you don't think I'm comfortable with you sending me messages, maybe you just shouldn't" Ouch... So, like a dumbass, I say I don't think it makes you uncomfortable" then proceed to talk to her, althought I'm definitely feeling uncomfortable myself.... I should've just let it go at that point. So life goes on... Well, she tells me then that she needs time to spend with her boys. I can't be coming over every weekend. So I don't go down there that weekend. That Saturday, she spent about 7 hours online playing the game... Instead of with her children. She sets them down in front of the TV, then goes to her room and plays the game... I get a little miffed by that. I was like, if you want to play the game instead of hang out, just tell me.... But oh well... I'm at the point now where I'd do anything for this woman. The ex comes over that Sunday night again. And he's coming over every Sunday at this point. She even goes out to dinner with him and the boys and some family that wanted to see the nephews, because the older uncle was dying. They didn't know they were divorcing... It seems as she's letting him back into her life, she's pushing me out... Well, I start seeing that she's a tad prone to drama... I write in my journal about how I'm giving her space, and I'm not going to look at her journal anymore... My Mom writes that she isn't either... You see, her and my Mom had been emailing back and forth a bit too. she wrote a letter to my Mom saying that she wanted to take care of me, and to no worry about her son too much anymore. And this makes Mom very happy. Well... That quit the weekend the ex called, and she moved... J's email address had to change, so Mom wasn't gettign responses anymore... and J didn't email back at all... Well my sister replies to Mom's post saying "If she's going to make her journal public, then I"M STILL going to read!" J sees this, and goes into a tirade about how she's mundane, and she doesn't understand why anyone would want to read anyway. My friend Mike sees this, and goes off on J. Then J goes off on MIKE. I see all this happening, and I'm like WHAT THE HELL!!! EVERYONE STOP IT!!! J makes a HUGE deal about this and BREAKS UP WITH ME that night by INSTANT MESSENGER.... I was like WHAT THE HELL?!?!?! Breaking up by IM?!?!?! Four hours later, she says that she's calmed down and wants to call me. I tell her no. You can call tomorrow, I don't want to talk to you right now. So the next morning at like 8 AM she calls... And we make up... and I go see her that night. I explain to her that she hurt me a LOT by doing what she did, but I want to get past it, and be ok. She makes a big deal about asking me if we're ok. I say yes. We don't have sex that night, but it was nice to sleep with her again, and feel her soft skin against me, and feel her cuddle up to me again. I go away Friday morning, and she goes about her weekend, saying she'll call me Sunday or Monday... I had sent her an invitation to come see my on April 15th, and I told her that invitation still stood, and she said she was absolutely going to make it happen. Sunday night, her ex is over, and after he leaves, her two children say to her "Mommy, when can Daddy come back?" When can we be four again? She writes this in her journal, and it breaks my heart. She writes that her children are conflicted between their father and me, that's what the counselors have been saying. I want to talk to her, to say "hey, maybe I just won't be around on any routine, and I'll just come see you weeknights"... but I know I still need to give her her "space"... so I wait for her call... and she doesnt' call... so Tuesday I call her... and she says she doesn't want to talk about it, as it'll just make her cry. I say, ok, and talk about my parents coming to visit the past weekend, and tell her how that went... It was ok, but the conversation was definitely a little strained. I say my goodbyes, and I say "give me a call" and she says "I'll try..." I ask if she'll be able to make it up on the 15th still, and she says she doesnt' know, and gives me a few excuses about not being able to have her parents sit, because her boys are giving her father hypertension, and they can't watch them anymore, and how her sister's a flake, and she can't depend on her, and she doesn't know yet. Then, she posts in her journal about how she's taking a sabbatical from everyone and everything. She writes that she needs to take a break from "the boyfriend", and her parents, because we all really hate her ex. She says she can't embrace such a strong emotion as hate. The ONLY things I know about him are from what she told me! How could I not despise a man that hit her, abused her, couldn't feel the FATHERHOOD effect enought to get off his ass and get a job... She supported him through most of their marriage. She's writing about how it feels good to be on good terms with her ex again. She writes about how she goes off on him for doing the things he did. She writes about how he gets down on one knee and apologizes, and says he'll help with the money when he gets his next paycheck. She then writes about how life is too weird, and how she's not content, and she needs to "uncomplicate" her life. She is at this point "taking a break" from me. I don't know this, except from reading her journal. I write an email to her, short and sweet, saying hi, and asking how she's doing. She replies back "Hi :)" and that's it... As the days pass, she keeps going on about how she's "uncomplicating her life"... and I can't talk to her. I start feeling REALLY bad... I start wondering what the hell is going on... Is she breaking up with me by LIVEJOURNAL now??? I haven't talked to her in days at this point. She goes on to talk about how her life's a mess, and she needs to uncomplicate things... TWo weeks go by without being able to talk to her. I call her March 30th in the morning. "Hi, I just wanted to call and talk for a bit" She says, "I can't talk now, I have to take the boys to the doctor, I've had this planned for months." So I say,"ok, no worries, I remember that. Can I call you tonight" She says... "you can try..." What the hell?!?!?! How did this woman, that loved me, who I completed, who complete me, get to feel this way???? I couldn't take it anymore. The past two weeks had been hellish. I just can't deal. It feels like she's pulling away from me, doesn't want me in her life, is "uncomplicating" things, and is not talking to me. She turned off her long distance flat rate plan, the one she used to spend hours utilizing, to call me, because it's too costly, and she needs to "uncomplicate" her life. I swear to god she said uncomplicate like 10 times over the course of two weeks. I know I need to stop reading her journal, but I couldn't... it was like an addiction... And it just made me feel worse and worse... So I wrote her a very loving email, thanking her for the love she'd shown me, thanking her for the care she'd given, thanking her for loving me, thanking her for letting me spend time with her two wonderful kids, thanking her for her love when she had so little left to give. It killed me to write, and to send, but it felt like she was breaking up with me, and didn't have the gonads to do so. I said to take care, and if she ever needed anything, to please call me... So the next day she reads it, and blows up on her journal. She says I misinterpreted her "taking a break" as breaking up with me without having to do so. That I let emotion overrun logic too much. She writes that she doesn't get along well with emotionally charged men. She writes how I try to fix things that aren't broken, and make things more complicated than they need to be. She said that when she "Takes a break" that means complete cutoff, something I've now learned as "no contact". If she would've SAID this to me, hey, I'm taking a break from you for a while, I'll call you sometime in the future", I would've been MUCH more ok, but she NEVER told me she was taking a break. She just told me she needed "space"... I was like, what the HELL!!! THAT'S WHAT THE COMMUNICATION IS FOR!!!! Don't ASSUME i'm going to read your journal!!! She said "I guess I don't need to find a sitter for the second week in april" and that made me feel horrible. After all the excuses she gave me, she makes it sound like she WAS going to come see me. I didn't WANT to send that email, but I felt so bad, I felt I HAD to. I call her, and try to explain myself to her, and explain to her that I have feelings, and what self-respecting person would I be if I didn't consider how I felt in this relationship. She didn't even want to talk to me. Evidently, most of the guys in her life have ended their relationship with her by letter, because they were "paranoid she was pushing them away"... I started to think maybe the ex husband left for a reason other than what J had been telling me. If other people had broken up with her because they felt "paranoid desolation", maybe the problem wasn't all of us, maybe it was her... I wrote two more email after that, and didn't get a response from either one... A week later, I called her, and asked her if it was truly over. She said yes, it is, I can't deal with you anymore... Somehow.... I became the bad guy, the ex is now the good guy, and now she's being catty and bitchy about me in her journal. She's not coming out and talking smack, but she's making underhanded comments about things in our relationship. She called me possessive, and too needy. Needy??? Because I'd like to know when I get to see the woman I cared about again?!?! I loved her, I cared for her, I cared for her boys, I wanted to be there for her whatever happened... She ended up turning around, and shoving it back in my face... She always told me "no matter what happens, I'll still want to see you"... And now... I miss her. I miss her desperately. I want to call her and try to make up with her still. I never wanted it to be over. I know I have to look out for myself, and my friends all say I'm lucky that I didn't get roped into supporting her and her two kids, something I would've willingly done. I wanted to hold her, not tie her down... Anyway, I have more to say, but I've already written a freakin novel... I'll be back later after dinner... Take care... -FS
westernxer Posted April 27, 2005 Posted April 27, 2005 Originally posted by ForsakenSoul It was a short, but extremely fiery romance, one of my best yet, and the first in a long time. Was it shorter than your post?
HoldOn Posted April 27, 2005 Posted April 27, 2005 Originally posted by westernxer Was it shorter than your post?
johan Posted April 27, 2005 Posted April 27, 2005 I read a lot of what you wrote, not all of it. I'm not trying to say your feelings weren't real, but I am willing to say the relationship wasn't. It's not hard to find a girl just out of a marriage to write poems with and to launch into a heavy passionate affair with. But that's not a relationship, it's just a fling. You have to learn sooner or later what a real signal of love is. It isn't poems or I-love-yous, or exclamations of how great you are with her kids. Those things are meaningless in the end, either because you find out the relationship consists of far deeper things or because the relationship had nothing at all going for it. If you can look back on that affair for what it was, you'll find it doesn't hurt so much to have lost it. Good luck to you in finding a woman who can show you what real love is and make you forget this one.
sanne Posted April 27, 2005 Posted April 27, 2005 Originally posted by westernxer Was it shorter than your post? yea....i'm sorry but do you expect anyone to read all of that? maybe you could provide us with some cliffnotes?
westernxer Posted April 27, 2005 Posted April 27, 2005 Originally posted by sanne ...cliffnotes? LOL.
br995 Posted April 27, 2005 Posted April 27, 2005 I read most of that and, unfortunately, what I have to say is quite short. You were a rebound. As much as it sucks, and as good as you two might be together, she is in noway ready to handle a relationship at this point. She needs to settle things with her ex, her life, and her emotions before you can expect her to be a suitable partner. It's terrible, but it's quite obvious. Hounding her will NOT help your case. As horribly hard as it will be, do your best to not contact her. It's the best way to save your sanity and not damage things anymore.
whichwayisup Posted April 27, 2005 Posted April 27, 2005 .... I became the bad guy, the ex is now the good guy, OK this isn't all your fault. You did see the red flags from the start, but decided to take a chance anyway. Love can do wild and crazy things to our heads. She's a messed up person. You tried to help her. The thing is, you tried to SAVE her and people like that can't be saved. She really isn't doing anything to better herself. She's up and then down. Puts her kids first, then she doesn't. Let go, move on and just be glad you don't have that emotional drama in your life anymore. You will find someone who is better suited for you. Not somebody who has 2 kids already, been abused and will continue to BE abused because she's messed up and not willing to GET PROFESSIONAL help. Glad you read No Foolin's thread. Keep on reading it - It'll help ya tons!
Author ForsakenSoul Posted April 27, 2005 Author Posted April 27, 2005 Heheh thanks... Sorry about the length... Guess I needed to vent a little more than I thought. Yeah, I'm pretty much over the pain, learned a LOT of lessons... Just having moments of weakness where I want to email or call her. Interesting to look back on it. I loved her, she broke my heart, yada yada yada. As a buddy at work said, she could be the love of your life, she could be getting you READY for the love of your life. Wish it could be the former, looks like the latter. Appreciate the sifting. -FS
Author ForsakenSoul Posted April 27, 2005 Author Posted April 27, 2005 One more thing... Hey.. at least I used paragraphs... hehehe... -FS
WithOrWithoutYou Posted April 27, 2005 Posted April 27, 2005 I read your story, every word of it, because it had a familiar ring. See, I have been where you are - pretty much exactly this situation, with a few cosmetic differences here and there. Ok, mine was not a gamer, didn't live in California, and as far as I know, yours is not fully back with her abusive guy (yet) but everything else was pretty much the same. My story, like yours, involves a woman married to a very abusive guy, a guy who is a piece of human garbage. She hated the marriage, can't regret it because she loves the kids, yada, yada, yada. She had derogatory names for her abusive guy, told me the very, very horrible stories about how he hurt her (I'm sure you heard similar ones), and then appeared to fall in love with me - I think she really did, actually. It was great, for a while. But then, same thing happened. She went back to abusive guy (what in my opinion, yours is on the way to doing). To some, this may sound like a story about rebound realtionships, and perhaps in some sense it is, but it's more a story about abuse, and what it does to a person who lives with it for years, and gets used to it. For some reason my friend, they always (always meaning 90-something percent) go back. I don't understand it, don't claim to, and as much as I would like to, I'm pretty sure that I never will - but it's a fact. Take a woman out of the abusive relationship (probably works for men too where a woman was the emotional/physical/worse abuser), and pair her up with a pretty damned nice guy, who treats her right, does all the right things, treats her like a lady (not to mention like a human being) and does not make her feel subhuman at every opportunity, and she slowly realizes that something is missing (that would be the abuse), and will gravitate back towards that abuse and bad treatment that she got for so long. It's not completely universal, since some do manage to get out for good and find someone decent, but I think it is in the 90-percents somewhere. She may have loved you too. In fact, I think she probably did, and may still, but the abusive guy has power over her, and has insinuated his way back into her life with those Sunday visits, with lots of "I've changed" rhetoric and false promises to become someone he is not. I'm quite sure mine did (probably does) love me, but there is a power that the abusive guy has over her, that she will not break free from (and even if she does not literally get back with him, he will do everything in his power to to screw up any relationship she tries to have with anyone else, including you - and as long as she lets him, he will be successful). It may be partially about the kids (insofar as he uses them to insinuate his way back into her life to get his emotional and literal punching bag back and for "let's be a family again" guilt trip purposes), but it's more than that. If she were inclined to tell you all she was thinking (and it doesn't sound like she is inclined to talk to you at all), she would probably tell you she is getting closer to her abusive guy again because it is "the devil she knows", becasue he is the "father of her children" (something he will use very effectively to maintain his hold on her), and because he does not represent a "fear of the unknown" (something else he may be playing up, no doubt reminding her of the good times - every relationship has some good times). All classic excuses for staying in an untennable situation, but they do it anyway. It really hit home when you wrote about how she has a journal and posts things that are ominous for your relationship, while posting other things suggesting that she is getting closer to abusive guy. Mine has a journal too, and loves drama. She posts intermittently about wanting to be with me, really getting into how close she can get to abusive guy, and posting lyrics to songs about his abuse and how hard it is on her (sound at all familiar?). My advice would be to try to move on with your life. I know, easier said than done. Believe me, I know. But I think you must. Oh, she will call again - and again - and again - and again, perhaps with weeks or months in between, but as long as abusive guy is still in the picture and wants her (and more importantly, as long as she is unwilling to admit to herself how bad it is with him), she will never be truly yours again, nor will she think of you as hers (other than as perhaps a never-to-be-used backup plan). And listen to your friend. She is one more part of your past which is preparing you for the love of your life. Under other circumstances, she might have been, but there are very real reasons why I seriously doubt that will happen with her. One other thing. The less you try to contact her, the sooner she will be back. It doesn't necessarily mean she wants you for real, just that she wants to know there is something better out there, an escape hatch, if she gets back together with her abusive guy, and decides she can't take it anymore (at which point she will reach out to you, reconnect with you, get very very close to you again, and then reconnect with abusive guy). If that happens, you might get to spend another few weeks, or months with her - until she goes back again, but if she hasn't yet figured out how to truly make it real, trust me, it isn't worth it - been there, done that. The realization has to come from her. On the other hand, there are a few who manage to break free of that, but yours is already showing signs of getting close to him again, clearly showing that she is eating up the guilt trip he is throwing at her (probably also THROUGH the kids) about being a family again, etc. etc. See, she is the one who has to see through that crap and remember what being with him was really like. You cannot do it for her. Only if she actually does see through it, and make a real commitment to do something about it, do you have any shot at all of making something good happen with her. Hope this is of some help. Perhaps you can learn something from my experience, and at least think about what to look for regarding whether she has really figured it out, or is still eating out of the abusive guy's hand, falling for his plan to get back together with her. Good luck.
Author ForsakenSoul Posted April 27, 2005 Author Posted April 27, 2005 I definitely appreciate the input. How you see it is how I'm seeing it as well. I was a fling, a rebound, and she said she didn't want me to be a rebound. We joked about it, and said the guy she saw for three weeks was her rebound... She says in her journal, which I need to quit reading, that she's going to finalize the divorce and follow through with it. Thing is, her parents got divorced, then remarried, so I think that's probably what she's thinking. I really don't expect her to be calling me again. It really bites too, as she really became a good friend of mine. I definitely didn't want it to end... the last time I spoke to her, about three and a half weeks ago now, I told her, I don't understand, but I'm glad you're happy now, I'm glad you're doing right by your children. If you ever want to rekindle what we had, please let me know. I really enjoyed my time with you, and I'm going to really miss you. I love you bunches. Goodbye, J. She knows how I feel. She doesn't need me to re-iterate it with an email or a phone call. But the journal... I've GOT to quit reading it... It just rips of the scab every time... Not email or not calling is one of the hardest things I've had to do, next to trying to let go... It sucks, because the three months or so we were together, she wrote such beautiful things about me. And they're still there to be read... Pain... -FS
westernxer Posted April 27, 2005 Posted April 27, 2005 She's still married? The story gets better and better.
Author ForsakenSoul Posted April 27, 2005 Author Posted April 27, 2005 Yeah... Hooked up with some other dude, then me, all while her divorce was still finalizing... She also had two, what she said was just playing, but two romances from a distance while she was still with the dude, but felt no love from him, or for him. The divorce was supposed to be final March 23rd, but they pushed it off a month because they hadn't come up with a visitation agreement. She's said nothing in her writings about finalizing it on April 23 either... So, as far as I know, they're still married, and the divorce isn't final yet. One HUGE lesson learned, among tons of other things, was never get involved with a woman who hasn't even finished her divorce... If they aren't through it, and healed from the hurt of it, don't even put yourself in that situation. -FS
WithOrWithoutYou Posted May 1, 2005 Posted May 1, 2005 Yeah, if there was no mention of the divorce being final (something that would be a huge event in her life), and she is still posting about other stuff, I think your guess that the divorce didn't happen is right on the money (even though I really hope that isn't the case, and I know you do too). 5 will get ya 10 that she is getting back together with abusive guy, or seriously thinking about doing so (and/or "giving it another try" with him because "he has totally changed" (heh, ya, for another 6 weeks) and because "he is the father of her children" and "they can be a family again" (yeah, with the kids learning exactly how their future relationships are going to work by watching him work her over) - ugh). Why do abusive guys always come back, and not just have the decency to go the hell away? Sorry man. I know. I've been there (still there, really). It hurts, it isn't fun, and it just plain sucks. Just try to not think about it any more than you have to, and one day, maybe you will be able to remember those really good times without it hurting so damned much. That is what I hope for myself anyway. They are still good memories, even if you can't let yourself think about them right now. They will still be there when you are ready. You did what you could to make it work. She has to figure it out for herself. Someday she might, or might not, but you cannot wait. Good luck to you.
moksha Posted May 1, 2005 Posted May 1, 2005 I cant believe I just read all of that Anyways, it sounds to me as if she's using her online journal or whatever it is to manipulate you. It is no longer a journal to her but a way of hurting you and toying with you...she knows you read it. She doesnt sound like a very honest or kind woman and I know you may love her, but you deserve to be loved just as much in return, AND by a woman who deserves what you have to offer. Why would you want a woman who manipulates your feelings and turns how she's making you feel back around on you as if it was you who did something wrong??
Author ForsakenSoul Posted May 1, 2005 Author Posted May 1, 2005 Yeah, that's definitely what it felt like anyway... I'm moving past this, and trying to shed these feelings of wanting her back, and it's been hard. I made the mistake of looking again this morning... She's now changed her divorce to a "legal separation", and she is going both to joint marriage counseling with the ex, and solo therapy as well, which is good, because she needs it. She also wrote about me again, and how she tried to make it work (she never tried...), and how I was emotional and paranoid because I do "drugs". (I smoke pot sometimes, something I've never had a problem with, but she took it personally. I don't drink much, and don't touch anything else except caffiene and nicotine.) She wrote about how I needed to be with her 24/7 and that smothered her. I don't recall needing that, but seeing her once a week would've been nice. She lives 80 miles south of me, what the hell... It seems like she's trying to pick out any flaw she can find to keep telling herself she really didn't want to be with me, and really wanted to get back together with this horrible person. Anyway, I just find it interesting that she's actually going back to this guy again, and she's still writing about how "bad a person" I am... I fear for her children. I hope they'll be ok. And I hope she'll be truly happy someday as well. If it works out for them again, and they can be happy together, well, then so be it, good luck and god speed. I wanted to be the one for her, though... I really did... kids and all... I really shouldn't have looked. -FS
WithOrWithoutYou Posted May 1, 2005 Posted May 1, 2005 Don't feel too bad about looking. It happens to the best of us. She's now changed her divorce to a "legal separation", and she is going both to joint marriage counseling with the ex, and solo therapy as well, which is good, because she needs it. Yep, he finally wore her down, made her question her decision to end the madness, and got himself another shot at getting his plaything back. The sad part is that HE is the one who needs therapy for his problem. The fact that they are just going to "marriage counselling" and SHE is getting therapy with no mention of him getting therapy for his problem, just tells me that it is very likely he is still blaming his crap at least partially on her (if she would have been a better wife, he wouldn't have.....), and he hasn't really changed at all. Don't worry, he will be nice to her for a while, until he gets her right back where he wants her, then will go back to his old self. They always do. She knows this too pretty much, because she has probably been through some lesser version of this thing with this guy 20 times before, and some part of her knows you are a really good guy, and what she had with you would have been good for her, so she is looking for any excuse she can grab on to, to justify and feel good about her "decision" to go back to the monster and "give it a chance" and "make it work" for the "sake of the kids" so they can "be a family again" (those are all the guilt-filled phrases he has probably used on her to make all this happen, and possibly got her family and friends to lay on her as well). There is still really nothing you can do. If she contacts you, you can talk to her, but she may or may not. Well, she probably will, but maybe not until abusive guy goes back to being himself, and the honeymoon period in his cycle of abuse is over - again. Just don't get sucked in again all the way until you are 100% sure she has got it figured out (look for her being able to use words like never when talking about the possibility of going back to him, and look for when she stops making excuses for the things he does). Sorry you have to go through this, but you are doing the right thing trying to move on. I'm doing the same. It isn't easy.
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