Broken engagement over 1 on 1 lunch-coffee w/ male boss

[organizedchaos]

Work lunches are sometimes necessary for entertaining clients or to have a private meeting outside of the office where others might hear. I would never dream of turning down a lunch invitation with any of my bosses because they're the boss. If they made advances, I'd stop that and possibly change jobs, but that has never happened to me over lunch. I've had plenty of friendly, flirty banter with just about every man I've ever worked with, but it was nothing more than something to break the monotony. Your woman has to be able to have a job, and I don't think you'll be happy anytime she's out of your sight. If you have a real documented reason why you can't trust her because you've busted her for cheating before and caught her at it, then that's one thing, but to worry about a man at work -- well, you should know your woman better than that. If she isn't trustworthy because she lies all the time (cheaters always lie), dump her. If she's not a liar, she is probably also not a cheater.

 

It's one thing to have a one on one lunch with your boss. What this guy is doing and texting to her is not appropriate and OP is well within his rights to say so.

[georgewoo]

A)

She said that whether its for her or me, she is going to curtail her lunch and coffee but not be banned from going altogether forever.

 

She says she feels that her boss doesn't like her because he tells her "he likes to joke around, so if he ever crosses the line tell him."

 

And she said she didn't tell me but I should have known, that she has not gone to lunch or coffee with him other than when she told me she did 2 weeks ago after i brought it up to her.

 

she says that they have great rapport and like to joke around together but he knows not to cross boundaries or risk it.

 

I told her it's like he's fishing around and testing for how far he can cross boundaries and then excuse it as joking and don't take it seriously if he does cross the line.

 

B)

She said its not a BIG DEAL that he texted her saying he enjoys her company because she thanked him for dinner first and she replied likewise also.

I told her that all of our other guy friends who hangout with her one on one for a dinner, wouldn't follow-up with "I really do enjoy your company" and send her a follow-up voicemail "asking if she got home okay" after they parted for 5 minutes. They would just say great hanging out with you.

 

Then I also pointed out that the text about "retiring together" is out of the blue and not work related, and is a personal text showing he is thinking of her.

 

C) I said she is giving someone who likes her continued many one on one opportunities to escalate and cross over boundaries.

 

She said:

If he wanted to escalate, he had could have done so in the 5 hour dinner because they were drinking but he didn't and it's just that they were enjoying themselves.

 

I was looking more for an answer that says: yeah he could have done so, but she would have stopped him from escalating because she loves me. Maybe i'm being too nitpicky?

 

 

______________________

 

In all my thought are:

 

1)

 

"She wants space"

 

means she's definitely unhappy with the relationship with me.

 

2)

"her downgrading and not breaking up with me"

 

Shows she's afraid to lose me, as a backup option, or to wait and see if I will step up and get my career on path as an Attorney.

 

3)

her boss clearly likes her, and she is denying it saying he just has great rapport with her and would not "risk crossing those boundaries" and knows his boundaries.

 

And she is playing it off to fill whatever void.... lack of friends she has, lack of fun or freshness she has with me since we have been together for so long its not as exciting or unpredictable, etc.

 

but she said she is curtailing it, so i should assume that she means well.

 

4)

Based on the above, for me her wanting space and not being happy in the relationship, I was thinking I would approach it one of two ways:

 

A) I continue this downgraded relationship status, and use it to go hang out one on one with her to build more romantic rapport by experiencing new events together, and escalating it slowly like we dated from scratch.

 

Since the relationship is definitely lacking the freshness and new excitement of being together 24/7 for a decade.

 

B) Not talk to her at all, and let her feel that she has lost me, and has to chase me.

 

Since she is clearly too comfortable thinking that I am there for her to come back to whenever she wants.

 

The only issue with this option is that, if she doesn't do it already, she would probably start confiding in her boss about our relationship status, and that would escalate to fill the emotional void of loneliness of me saying breaking it off completely with her. Since she literally has no actual friends or family members.

[georgewoo]

A)

She said that whether its for her or me, she is going to curtail her lunch and coffee but not be banned from going altogether forever.

 

She says she feels that her boss doesn't like her because he tells her "he likes to joke around, so if he ever crosses the line tell him."

 

 

And she said she didn't tell me but I should have known, that she has not gone to lunch or coffee with him other than when she told me she did 2 weeks ago after i brought it up to her.

 

 

she says that they have great rapport and like to joke around together but he knows not to cross boundaries or risk it.

 

I told her it's like he's fishing around and testing for how far he can cross boundaries and then excuse it as joking and don't take it seriously if he does cross the line.

 

B)

She said its not a BIG DEAL that he texted her saying he enjoys her company because she thanked him for dinner first and she replied likewise also.

 

I told her that all of our other guy friends who hangout with her one on one for a dinner, wouldn't follow-up with "I really do enjoy your company" and send her a follow-up voicemail "asking if she got home okay" after they parted for 5 minutes. They would just say great hanging out with you.

 

Then I also pointed out that the text about "retiring together" is out of the blue and not work related, and is a personal text showing he is thinking of her.

 

C) I said she is giving someone who likes her continued many one on one opportunities to escalate and cross over boundaries.

 

She said:

If he wanted to escalate, he had could have done so in the 5 hour dinner because they were drinking but he didn't and it's just that they were enjoying themselves.

 

I was looking more for an answer that says: yeah he could have done so, but she would have stopped him from escalating because she loves me. Maybe i'm being too nitpicky?

 

 

______________________

 

In all my thought are:

 

1)

 

"She wants space"

 

means she's definitely unhappy with the relationship with me.

 

2)

"her downgrading and not breaking up with me"

 

Shows she's afraid to lose me, as a backup option, or to wait and see if I will step up and get my career on path as an Attorney.

 

3)

her boss clearly likes her, and she is denying it saying he just has great rapport with her and would not "risk crossing those boundaries" and knows his boundaries.

 

And she is playing it off to fill whatever void.... lack of friends she has, lack of fun or freshness she has with me since we have been together for so long its not as exciting or unpredictable, etc.

 

but she said she is curtailing it, so i should assume that she means well.

 

4)

Based on the above, for me her wanting space and not being happy in the relationship, I was thinking I would approach it one of two ways:

 

A) I continue this downgraded relationship status, and use it to go hang out one on one with her to build more romantic rapport by experiencing new events together, and escalating it slowly like we dated from scratch.

 

Since the relationship is definitely lacking the freshness and new excitement of being together 24/7 for a decade.

 

B) Not talk to her at all, and let her feel that she has lost me, and has to chase me.

 

Since she is clearly too comfortable thinking that I am there for her to come back to whenever she wants.

 

The only issue with this option is that, if she doesn't do it already, she would probably start confiding in her boss about our relationship status, and that would escalate to fill the emotional void of loneliness of me saying breaking it off completely with her. Since she literally has no actual friends or family members.

[d0nnivain]

I think you are over analyzing. I think she is trying to tell you that she knows where the lines are & 1). she does not intend to cross them & 2). she will keep him in check if he tries to cross them.

 

To some extent, she's screaming trust me. If you truly want to marry her you have to trust her but you don't have to do it blindly. Keep an eye on the situation & don't put down any non-refundable deposits for the wedding just yet. A long engagement is just the ticket.

[georgewoo]

But we're not engaged anymore because she downgraded it to back to dating from scratch because she wants to feel free and have space.

 

aka code words for:

 

she isn't happy with the relationship and wants to figure out what she wants to do next, and see if I will rise up and fulfill her needs without her losing me by breaking up completely.

[rester]

I asked this in one of the other identical threads, but why did you not go out with her on her birthday to begin with? I think some critical information is missing here. Did you know in advance that she was to go out with her boss? Did you have other plans for her birthday night? Did she have a spontaneous night with her boss including birthday candles? Why weren't you there with her?

[georgewoo]

Thank you for asking.

 

So I celebrated her birthday with our friends that Friday May 1st, her birthday with her and her parents on Saturday May 2nd, and her actual birthday one on one with me and her on Sunday, may 3rd.

 

Then her boss wanted to take her out for her birthday lunch on May 4th, she asked if it was okay. I didn't think much of it, and said sure fine go for it.

 

It ended up being a birthday dinner instead of a birthday lunch.

 

The birthday dinner went from 530pm to like 10:45pm at night, and she said she lost track of time because she was enjoying herself to make up for the bad birthday she had with our friends on the previous Friday night. She thought it was fine because she kept me updated via text often.

 

I said, it still shouldn't take 5 hours though, and drinking one on one with another guy, for 5 hours at two different restaurants, who is also your boss, is a full blown date and you are trying to sanction it under the guise of "work"

 

Not to mention the $160 he spent on her, and the texts he sent to her outside of work clearly show he likes her because he wouldn't do it for other people. Further, her boss goes to lunch with no one else at work other than her and they always go only one on one.

 

She responded with because the people in the public works office she works at are weird, and she wouldn't want to hang out with any of them either.

 

 

I just said well I guess you're just his type then.

[writergal]

Thank you for asking.

 

So I celebrated her birthday with our friends that Friday May 1st, her birthday with her and her parents on Saturday May 2nd, and her actual birthday one on one with me and her on Sunday, may 3rd.

 

Then her boss wanted to take her out for her birthday lunch on May 4th, she asked if it was okay. I didn't think much of it, and said sure fine go for it.

 

It ended up being a birthday dinner instead of a birthday lunch.

 

The birthday dinner went from 530pm to like 10:45pm at night, and she said she lost track of time because she was enjoying herself to make up for the bad birthday she had with our friends on the previous Friday night. She thought it was fine because she kept me updated via text often.

 

I said, it still shouldn't take 5 hours though, and drinking one on one with another guy, for 5 hours at two different restaurants, who is also your boss, is a full blown date and you are trying to sanction it under the guise of "work"

 

Not to mention the $160 he spent on her, and the texts he sent to her outside of work clearly show he likes her because he wouldn't do it for other people. Further, her boss goes to lunch with no one else at work other than her and they always go only one on one.

 

She responded with because the people in the public works office she works at are weird, and she wouldn't want to hang out with any of them either.

 

 

I just said well I guess you're just his type then.

 

The 5 hour dinner with her boss would be a deal breaker for me. I wouldn't accept being downgraded from being engaged to just dating either. I'd walk away from the person because its clear that I wasn't a priority anymore.

 

Just curious why you're ok with being an option now, her placement holder so to speak.

[georgewoo]

I believe it's because I value that we literally grew up together in the relationship and we've been attached at the hip for the past 7 years through undergraduate and law school, 24/7, together all the time.

 

I also feel like she cares and wants to make it work, and afraid to lose our "life companion" since she didn't want to let me go, but is worried:

 

1) My parents will make horrible grandparents because of the way they treat her.

2) That my career hasn't taken off yet because i'm waiting for bar exam results.

3) That she feels suffocated from being in a relationship and fights.

 

 

 

I definitely do know what you mean, that I am being downgraded until I show myself to be more worthy, so to speak.

[d0nnivain]

But we're not engaged anymore because she downgraded it to back to dating from scratch because she wants to feel free and have space.

 

aka code words for:

 

she isn't happy with the relationship and wants to figure out what she wants to do next, and see if I will rise up and fulfill her needs without her losing me by breaking up completely.

 

If you are not happy with no longer being engaged & don't care for her relationship with her boss, you can always walk away.

 

Space post engagement may simply be "ripping the band-aid" off painfully slowly.

[writergal]

I believe it's because I value that we literally grew up together in the relationship and we've been attached at the hip for the past 7 years through undergraduate and law school, 24/7, together all the time.

 

I also feel like she cares and wants to make it work, and afraid to lose our "life companion" since she didn't want to let me go, but is worried:

 

1) My parents will make horrible grandparents because of the way they treat her.

2) That my career hasn't taken off yet because i'm waiting for bar exam results.

3) That she feels suffocated from being in a relationship and fights.

 

I definitely do know what you mean, that I am being downgraded until I show myself to be more worthy, so to speak.

 

 

Obviously 7 years is a good chunk of time. Does she really care though? She doesn't want to marry you. When she downgraded the engagement, how did she say it?

 

"I don't want to marry you."

 

or

 

"I don't want to marry you right now."

 

When I mentioned 'placeholder,' that term means that she's keeping you around in place until things start with her boss.

 

I really don't understand how you can be so passive about the amount of time she spends with her boss outside of work hours. Granted, you've written about how you two have argued a lot about the time she's spent with her boss that bothers you. And how those arguments have led to her canceling the engagement. Doesn't that seem like a red flag to you? It seems futile to me, to stay with someone who doesn't want to marry you.

 

1) My parents will make horrible grandparents because of the way they treat her.

 

So, your parents don't like your girlfriend (former fiance)? Can you elaborate why?

 

2) That my career hasn't taken off yet because i'm waiting for bar exam results.

 

Depending on what state you live in, bar exam results can take anywhere from 4 to 10 weeks. So, basically your girlfriend (former fiance) canceled the engagement because you haven't found a job as a lawyer yet?

 

3) That she feels suffocated from being in a relationship and fights.

 

Usually, people who are cheating (emotionally or physically) on their significant other feel suffocated from being in a relationship and act defensive. It's very telling that she refuses to empathize with you, and refuses to stop going on these rather long lunch and dinners with her boss.

[Perrier]

Have to say I agree with another poster that the birthday dinner went on too long, and reads like a date. Your ex fiancee is developing emotional intimacy with her boss. On the one hand I see her point - I wouldn't refuse an invite because he is my boss - however, your ex's boss's texts are inappropriate.

 

Odd you're considering staying after being downgraded to bf/gf. That would send me packing. Your woman has clearly lost interest in your relationship.

[applej4]

OP, if she wants to be free and have her space, then she doesn’t want to marry you. Sorry to say, but I think you’re rationalizing and grasping at straws and making excuses. The flirty texting, the 5 hr dinner…..wow. There is no doubt in my mind that her relationship with her boss is more important to her than you. The writing on the wall is in HUGE RED CAPITAL LETTERS. Downgraded from engaged to dating?! Wow. You’re hanging by a thread. Walk away. Now.

[preraph]

It's one thing to have a one on one lunch with your boss. What this guy is doing and texting to her is not appropriate and OP is well within his rights to say so.

 

Well, I didn't really get that from what he wrote, but even if that's true, she has no control over what her boss does. All she can control is what she does, and she's been up front with him about it and isn't hiding it, so he's overreacting.

[preraph]

I believe it's because I value that we literally grew up together in the relationship and we've been attached at the hip for the past 7 years through undergraduate and law school, 24/7, together all the time.

 

I also feel like she cares and wants to make it work, and afraid to lose our "life companion" since she didn't want to let me go, but is worried:

 

1) My parents will make horrible grandparents because of the way they treat her.

2) That my career hasn't taken off yet because i'm waiting for bar exam results.

3) That she feels suffocated from being in a relationship and fights.

 

 

 

I definitely do know what you mean, that I am being downgraded until I show myself to be more worthy, so to speak.

 

It's up to you to either get your family to respect her or make sure she doesn't have to put up with them or let your kids be with them either. That is a major problem that has zero to do with her boss. It is not on her to put up with disrespect from your relatives. It's up to you to man up and fix that or stop being around them and not let them see the grandkids if they can't be nice to the mother. If they're that bad, the kids don't need that influence anyway.

 

She probably just feels that there's more minuses than pluses with you right now. Can you ever envision her working for a man and going to business lunches or traveling with him on business without you getting jealous about it? Because work is like that. No one wants to have to battle with someone who feels they're on the verge of cheating when they haven't done anything to deserve it. And if she's smart, the fact that you automatically assume she would cheat will tell her that that's because if you were in the same situation, that's what YOU would do. Because that's how it works with jealous people. They assume everyone will react like they would and take an opportunity if it presented itself.

 

And try to remember that jealousy that's causing lots of fights will eventually drive everyone away, whether they ever intended to cheat or not. You create your own worst fear. You either trust her or you don't. You either trust women in general or you don't. If you can't trust her or any other woman, then you are not ready for marriage anyway.

 

Just because maybe a man is interested in a woman doesn't in any way mean the woman is interested in him back. We're not just waiting for any old opportunity like so many men are.

[d0nnivain]

she is worried:

 

2) That my career hasn't taken off yet because i'm waiting for bar exam results..

 

Gee. Does she know anything about law? Of course your career hasn't taken off yet. You can't do anything until you pass the bar. Duh.

 

Results should be out soon though from Febraury, right? I know you get them in November for the July exam. Good luck.

 

At this point, forget her. Through yourself into practice. Go be a huge success then laugh at her.

[applej4]

Have to say I agree with another poster that the birthday dinner went on too long, and reads like a date. Your ex fiancee is developing emotional intimacy with her boss. On the one hand I see her point - I wouldn't refuse an invite because he is my boss - however, your ex's boss's texts are inappropriate.

 

Odd you're considering staying after being downgraded to bf/gf. That would send me packing. Your woman has clearly lost interest in your relationship.

 

I agree. She most likely is sleeping with her boss, and has been for awhile.

[bluegreen]

I agree. She most likely is sleeping with her boss, and has been for awhile.

 

Ouch the thought did not even enter my head.

Hope not poor guy would be shattered...

[No Limit]

I think she has some deeper issues. Having no family members is tragic, but having no friends at all usually means there's something wrong (people should be able to socialize; unless their appearance is considered "ugly" by society standards, which frankly I find pretty terrible). And be careful what you wish for - her chasing you doesn't mean that she's changed. Many people put a lot of effort into their acting.

[Miss Clavel]

A)

 

 

B) Not talk to her at all, and let her feel that she has lost me, and has to

 

i would move. i would not sign a lease or buy a house but i would definitely move. put my stuff in storage and rent a room somewhere or move in with a closemouthed co-worker/friend.

 

if she wants space, give it to her...give her some rope while you're at it.

[Radu]

A)

She said that whether its for her or me, she is going to curtail her lunch and coffee but not be banned from going altogether forever.

 

She says she feels that her boss doesn't like her because he tells her "he likes to joke around, so if he ever crosses the line tell him."

 

 

And she said she didn't tell me but I should have known, that she has not gone to lunch or coffee with him other than when she told me she did 2 weeks ago after i brought it up to her.

 

 

she says that they have great rapport and like to joke around together but he knows not to cross boundaries or risk it.

 

I told her it's like he's fishing around and testing for how far he can cross boundaries and then excuse it as joking and don't take it seriously if he does cross the line.

Yup, that's how it starts ... and the only way she was holding back was because of your relationship.

Now he will be there for her, and she is already a little hooked, so much harder to give it up.

 

B)

She said its not a BIG DEAL that he texted her saying he enjoys her company because she thanked him for dinner first and she replied likewise also.

 

I told her that all of our other guy friends who hangout with her one on one for a dinner, wouldn't follow-up with "I really do enjoy your company" and send her a follow-up voicemail "asking if she got home okay" after they parted for 5 minutes. They would just say great hanging out with you.

 

Then I also pointed out that the text about "retiring together" is out of the blue and not work related, and is a personal text showing he is thinking of her.

Feeds into A, she is already addicted to it and won't give it up.

 

In light of this, your relationship being degraded a little means that at some level she may be interested in pursuing this.

 

C) I said she is giving someone who likes her continued many one on one opportunities to escalate and cross over boundaries.

 

She said:

If he wanted to escalate, he had could have done so in the 5 hour dinner because they were drinking but he didn't and it's just that they were enjoying themselves.

 

I was looking more for an answer that says: yeah he could have done so, but she would have stopped him from escalating because she loves me. Maybe i'm being too nitpicky?

Nope, he's escalating closely.

 

He works with her, so he's going to increase the emotional bonding slowly but surely.

 

______________________

 

In all my thought are:

 

1)

 

"She wants space"

 

means she's definitely unhappy with the relationship with me.

Maybe ... until you realize that almost all GIGS with walkaway SO starts this way.

 

You don't rebuild a relationship or make it stronger by going away; what you do is degrade it's emotional connection and by default give more breeding ground to the other possible relationship.

 

This is why she needs space.

It's not about what's best for your relationship, but what's best for her in a relationship [not necessarily yours].

 

2)

"her downgrading and not breaking up with me"

 

Shows she's afraid to lose me, as a backup option, or to wait and see if I will step up and get my career on path as an Attorney.

Nope, she wants you as :

- backup

- a little bit away while she does some exploring

 

 

3)

her boss clearly likes her, and she is denying it saying he just has great rapport with her and would not "risk crossing those boundaries" and knows his boundaries.

 

And she is playing it off to fill whatever void.... lack of friends she has, lack of fun or freshness she has with me since we have been together for so long its not as exciting or unpredictable, etc.

 

but she said she is curtailing it, so i should assume that she means well.

Boundaries have already been crossed.

 

Trust but verify, all cheaters [proven] will say this.

And she is starting well on her EA.

EA's are nastier than PA's because there is less that can be proven, hard to get evidence and not all ppl recognize them as a threat in the first place.

Even worse, the battlefield is in her head, and she has already handicapped you and continues to do so.

At a subconscious level, she wants him to win.

 

4)

Based on the above, for me her wanting space and not being happy in the relationship, I was thinking I would approach it one of two ways:

 

A) I continue this downgraded relationship status, and use it to go hang out one on one with her to build more romantic rapport by experiencing new events together, and escalating it slowly like we dated from scratch.

 

Since the relationship is definitely lacking the freshness and new excitement of being together 24/7 for a decade.

She will find some way to push you away.

 

Most likely it will accelerate her demonizing you in her mind.

'You are suffocating me !!!!'

 

B) Not talk to her at all, and let her feel that she has lost me, and has to chase me.

 

Since she is clearly too comfortable thinking that I am there for her to come back to whenever she wants.

 

The only issue with this option is that, if she doesn't do it already, she would probably start confiding in her boss about our relationship status, and that would escalate to fill the emotional void of loneliness of me saying breaking it off completely with her. Since she literally has no actual friends or family members.

Meh, and what happens if you barely win ?

It's still a Pyrrhic victory, you've won the battle [barely] but the war may be lost.

 

If she cheats, she cheats.

Let her do her own thing, and count your blessings this did not happen when you were married with kids.

 

If you do want to turn things around, don't go with that feminist hogwash about 'emotional stuff' and time spent together, and telling her your feelingssssss.

It's straight out of cheap ad crappy romantic 50c a pound novels.

 

Look up the 180, and apply it in full.

[Radu]

I'll write some stuff on why i don't think spending time with her will work [and the below is genderless, works for both men and women].

 

Right now, she is acting in a selfish manner, putting herself first.

 

If you supplicate to her, if you put her on a pedestal, she will lose the remaining respect she has for you ... you will be feeding her selfishness.

You don't have an option in what to do right now :

- if you supplicate to her the pace of her falling for the EA will simply accelerate

- if you go and do your own thing, focus on taking care of yourself and not let yourself look too bothered ... she will respect you more because you will respect yourself more

 

On a sidenote, any kind of getting the relationship back together at this point should be treated like a mini-reconcilliation.

Meaning, that she has to see she was going for an EA, and the link between the two must be cut no matter what.

Without this internal realization on her part, a future EA/PA will come easier for her ... and in a marriage with kids it will be far more devastating.

 

If this guy is married with kids, that adds a new level to it ... because she should be able to tell easily that what he does is bad.

So the question is, why does she refuse to do so.

[tinalooks808]

I found the texts on my own the next morning on her phone. Granted we did not talk about the issue before I found the texts.

 

It was only after the 5 hour dinner and drinking on a Monday night until 11pm that made me have an issue with her lunch and coffee runs one on one.

 

I think the fact that you feel the need to go through her phone is a red flag and enough proof that there are some deeper issues. Trust and communication are key. If you trust someone you shouldn't feel the need to go through their phone.

[georgewoo]

Would you say that it is impossible to end the emotional affair with her boss even if she realized an emotional affair was developing, and even if she tried ...because he sees her everyday and works only with her and no one else?

[georgewoo]

Would you say that it is impossible to end the emotional affair with her boss even if she realized an emotional affair was developing, and even if she tried ...because he sees her everyday and works only with her and no one else?