Am I overreacting over my boyfriend talking to certain exes?

[kp15]

My BF and I are 24 & 25 years old. We have been together for about 2 years on and off. We are very serious now and have talked about marriage, kids, and moving in together after I sit for the bar. However, before we were offically a couple, we were intimate for about 4 years prior. During this time, he was also involved with other girls. We never agreed to be exclusive at that time, so that part is not the issue here.

 

I don't have a problem with him having female friends generally, but I feel that when they are girls that he has been in a relationship with or has had sex with, that is a different story. My boyfriend is still in communication with 2 girls in particular that bother me.

 

Girl #1 is his ex from high school. They broke up in high school many years ago, but things didn't end there. They continued to be "friends" and had sex for over 6 years afterwards (until a little before we got into an official relationship). He was having sex with her at the same time as me before we got into a relationship... something I did not find out until later. This is what I think upsets me the most about him still talking to her. Maybe I would feel differently if this was someone long before me, but he has been involved with her DURING his interactions with me! To make it worse, she is still in love/obsessed with him, has no respect for the fact that he is in a relationship (She called him once at 2:30am and always expresses sadness at the fact that he doesn't have feelings for her too), and she even cheated on one of her boyfriends with him (while we were in college... before me and him were a couple). To make things even worse: after having numerous fights over him talking to her, him swearing up and down that he has no feelings for her and that whatever he had with her was done, and that I was crazy for worrying that anything further could ever happen between them... when we broke up last summer, he went back to sexting with her. Granted, they live half way across the country from one another and they never actually saw each other or had sex (although she offered to fly to see him) but just the knowledge that the second we break up, he will be back to doing inappropriate things with her means that it is not as innocent of a "friendship" as he thinks it is. It feels to me like she is my backup replacement.

 

Girl# 2 is someone that he was never technically in a relationship with, although they might as well have been. They met while we were in college... while me and him were involved. They were both in love with each other, met each others families (they are both from completely different states) and spent holidays with them, they celebrated Valentine's Days together, and she planned to move to the same state as him after graduation so they could be together. He once described his relationship with her as being "damn near engaged," since they talked about marriage and stuff. They had some weird arrangement where she allowed him to have sex with other girls so long as it was just sex. Long story short, he avoided putting an official title on things claiming he "wasn't ready for a relationship" (commitment phobia?). After 2 years, she finally got sick of waiting on something that might never come and moved on and got a new BF. Fast forward almost 3 years later and she is still with her BF, yet still calls my BF from time to time. I have a suspicion that he is still in love with her and regrets that he ruined things with her. Of course, he denies this.

 

My BF and I have gotten into many fights and even broke up over him talking to these girls. He says he is not in constant communication with them and only talks to them once in a blue moon when THEY call him. He says he understands the limits and would not do/discuss anything inappropriate to hurt our relationship. I believe that these types of girls that he has been intimate with (and ESPECIALLY the ones that he was intimate with at the same time as me) should not be his "friends" now that he is in a serious relationship. I see no reason why they need to have phone conversations. I don't understand what they could possibly have to talk about. I feel disrespected by the mere idea of him talking to them... especially Girl #1. I'm not saying he has to hate them and can't be cordial or civilized if they ever happen to run into each other, but this whole "we're friends" thing really upsets me. He thinks that he should be able to talk to and be "friends" with whoever he wants without restriction. He feels like if I trust him, I shouldn't worry about the fact that he is communicating with someone that has expressed an agenda to sleep with him/be with him. No matter how much I express how much this issue devastates me, we still end up at square one. He doesn't think he should stop talking to these particular girls.

 

At one time we came to some kind of compromise where he would keep me in the loop and tell me when he spoke to them, so as to be transparent and honest with me about the extent of his relationships with them. He did this for a while and then slowly stopped. When he would mention that he spoke to them, I wouldn't respond as nonchalantly as he would prefer, so he would always say "Next time, I'm not telling you! " Also, I think he feels like telling me these things is him reporting/answering to me and he doesn't like that... some male pride or ego thing, I presume. So now he is refusing to even tell me when he speaks with them, which makes this whole thing even worse for me.

 

Am I wrong for thinking that he shouldn't be talking to these girls? Is my request unreasonable? How should I deal with the issue?

[TaraMaiden2]

I'll be honest with you:

 

You're a highly-intelligent, knowledgeable and articulate individual.

You have a head full of Law, you almost certainly know a lot more than you think you do.

You have the respect of your peers, because I suspect there are many who come to you for (unpaid) legal input, asking you specific questions, because they KNOW you'll give them the right answer (even if it may not be what they want to hear, because people more often than not, want MORAL justice, not Legal) and you're confident, practical and you probably tend to over-think things.

 

Over-think, to the point that you don't discuss.

 

(How am I doing so far? If pretty good, then hint: I have insider knowledge....)

 

And you're worrying about two sillies from your BF's past?

People who he almost definitely doesn't see in the same light you do...

 

Men disconnect. They can separate the emotional/sexual side from the cerebral.

He may have had sex with them, been intimate with them, had a thing with them.

But that was then, this is now.

Really, you're too bright for your own good, and it's not serving you well, because you're over-thinking this.

 

I think you're looking at this with too much of a legal brain.

It seems logical to you that once a case is over and done with, it's filed, tied up, bundled and put away.

 

But this is life.

And you are going to alienate him if you literally lay down the law to him.

You do not for one moment consider you are doing that.

But he does.

 

This is social.

If he was going missing, spending time with them, sending them gifts or questionable messages, I'd understand.

 

But you need to ease up, because I too have found with my H (yes, he's the Lawyer!) he is so up in his head, he often neglects to be rational where heart is concerned, ('rational' and 'heart'...? that's a contradiction, right there!) and clams up, denies his emotions, won't communicate and frankly, can be stunted in his attitude, at times....

 

Where you are streets ahead of others in your intellect, it's possible that emotionally, you've neglected to nurture aspects which would make you feel more secure.

And this is insecurity on your part.

You believe that either he thinks you're not enough for him - or you think you aren't enough for him.

That's not the way life works.

 

You're not joined at the hip; you both have your own lives, as well as the life you have together.

As a member of the legal profession, you have ample opportunity within your place of study to engineer different relationships and sometimes, this can lead to a frisson of power-games.

The world of Law is notoriously male-orientated. You have to struggle to gain credibility, and even nowadays, women barristers and solicitors are not accorded the respect they deserve.

 

And maybe you feel disrespected, but that's not your BF's intention.

 

you say you're studying for the bar, but you don't say what he is doing....

 

That too, could have a bearing....

[Daisy-oliviaWentcher]

I think you're not over-thinking this and have every right to feel suspicious and here's why....

 

Out of respect for YOU, he should block and delete and have no contact with these woman. If they are in his past, then a woman calling at 2:30 in the morning should be more like " why the **** are you calling me at 2:30 in the morning, leave me alone, I'm in a new relationship now and I have no interest in seeing you again." a 2:30 in the morning phone call to an ex is creepy. Hands down. Shady.

 

he slept causally and had causal sex with others and with you before he got together with you? already this is a shaky foundation for a relationship and whose to say he isn't causally sleeping with others at this very moment in time?

 

I am friends with an old boyfriend, but that's all we are, friends and we aren't even good friends, more like acquaintances, but there is no way I would go out of my time to spend time with him or hang out with him, I know my boyfriend would really feel uncomfortable with it, and me and my ex last broke up 12 years ago!!

 

If he did that to me with his ex wife, I'd feel the same. Especially dodgy early morning inappropriate phone calls and stalkery behaviour from old girlfriends.

Your suspicions are warranted and I would be more careful with this guy. If you are not feeling comfortable in this situation, I would re-consider a future with someone who wants to keep phone calls from ex girlfriends "hidden and private" pfft... please.

[TaraMaiden2]

Casual. The word is CA-SU-AL.

 

MInd you, I'm always freind-ing and form-ing (instead of from-ing)...!!!

 

It's maddening! :laugh:

[darkmoon]

if you are a couple, then you have friends you share, not friends who one of you can not stand

 

unless he grew up in an environment that was similarly flawed

 

unless he likes baiting you

 

imo, what you need is a special ring (dare i say engagement ring?) to set you apart from those girls, a special gesture, living together is not quite the same as marriage, a ring gets you to a new level, tell him you want to wear his ring, not mid-arguement, no, just mention it.... see what he says

Edited June 3, 2015 by darkmoon

[katiegrl]

OP, I am inclined to agree with you and Daisy.

 

Yes of course he can have female friends, what is bothersome about these two particular *friendships* is that they both are former lovers, and are, for all intent and purposes, kept secret.

 

They are not just *friends* -- neither of them -- but his relationship with no. 1 is of particular concern. I don't know of ANY woman (except for TaraMaiden) who would be okay with that situation. Completely 100% inappropriate.

 

He won't admit it, but since she is still calling, and at 2:30 in the morning no less, HE is encouraging it. Why is he speaking to her at that hour? Obviously, he still has feelings for her, otherwise he would be DIScouraging her instead of encouraging her.

 

I think you need to strongly rethink your relationship with him. You said you have broken up before because of these *friendships*, why did you go back?

 

Stop fighting with him about, it's a futile waste of time and energy. Clearly he has no intention of giving up these two *friendships* at least not for you or for the good of his relationship with you. That, in and of itself, speaks volumes!

 

Obviously he considers these *friendships* more important and more valuable than his relationship with you, and if it were me, I would just walk away.

 

I am sorry.

[minime13]

Some people realize it immediately.

 

Some people don't until they go through an experience.

 

Some people never see it.

 

What that is, if you're curious, is that there is never a real friendship after a relationship, and there will always be someone that has a motive. Even if it's not your boyfriend (and I don't think it is), that will cause problems because, as women, we know women.

 

What do you do about it? Depends. What can you handle doing?

[Emilia]

I think you can be friends with exes yes. Especially if they have important others in their lives. What you can't have however is a committed relationship with a man who saw you as just an FWB for years and diddled other women on the side too. You are right to be suspicious OP but I think it's because a person's view of you won't directly shift that much. He won't remain faithful, no. Pretty sure you can do better.

[Daisy-oliviaWentcher]

Listen. Friendship with an ex ? that's totally fine! you had a bit of history, you're all grown up, moved on, become different people and now you say " congratulations on your engagement" or whatever.... A 2:30 phone call is completely out of line. There is no argument here, apart from the arguments you're having about it. And the fact that he's defending his behavior is a concern in itself. You're a wise, intuitive and smart individual and have every right to call him out on this cryptic and weird emotional crap. I would move on. You deserve much better.

[Daisy-oliviaWentcher]

I'll be honest with you:

 

You're a highly-intelligent, knowledgeable and articulate individual.

You have a head full of Law, you almost certainly know a lot more than you think you do.

You have the respect of your peers, because I suspect there are many who come to you for (unpaid) legal input, asking you specific questions, because they KNOW you'll give them the right answer (even if it may not be what they want to hear, because people more often than not, want MORAL justice, not Legal) and you're confident, practical and you probably tend to over-think things.

 

Over-think, to the point that you don't discuss.

 

(How am I doing so far? If pretty good, then hint: I have insider knowledge....)

 

And you're worrying about two sillies from your BF's past?

People who he almost definitely doesn't see in the same light you do...

 

Men disconnect. They can separate the emotional/sexual side from the cerebral.

He may have had sex with them, been intimate with them, had a thing with them.

But that was then, this is now.

Really, you're too bright for your own good, and it's not serving you well, because you're over-thinking this.

 

I think you're looking at this with too much of a legal brain.

It seems logical to you that once a case is over and done with, it's filed, tied up, bundled and put away.

 

But this is life.

And you are going to alienate him if you literally lay down the law to him.

You do not for one moment consider you are doing that.

But he does.

 

This is social.

If he was going missing, spending time with them, sending them gifts or questionable messages, I'd understand.

 

But you need to ease up, because I too have found with my H (yes, he's the Lawyer!) he is so up in his head, he often neglects to be rational where heart is concerned, ('rational' and 'heart'...? that's a contradiction, right there!) and clams up, denies his emotions, won't communicate and frankly, can be stunted in his attitude, at times....

 

Where you are streets ahead of others in your intellect, it's possible that emotionally, you've neglected to nurture aspects which would make you feel more secure.

And this is insecurity on your part.

You believe that either he thinks you're not enough for him - or you think you aren't enough for him.

That's not the way life works.

 

You're not joined at the hip; you both have your own lives, as well as the life you have together.

As a member of the legal profession, you have ample opportunity within your place of study to engineer different relationships and sometimes, this can lead to a frisson of power-games.

The world of Law is notoriously male-orientated. You have to struggle to gain credibility, and even nowadays, women barristers and solicitors are not accorded the respect they deserve.

 

And maybe you feel disrespected, but that's not your BF's intention.

 

you say you're studying for the bar, but you don't say what he is doing....

 

That too, could have a bearing....

 

 

 

what he's doing for a job so far is having emotional conversations with an ex-girlfriend in the early hours in the morning. You don't have to study and the freakin bar to feel " disrespected" of this kind of behavior.

[kp15]

I ended up back with him because he claimed to see the error of his ways and agreed to severely limit his communications with Girl #1 (this was before I knew that he occasionally also communicated with Girl #2). He called her up and told her that it was not appropriate for her to be calling him at all hours of the night. He told her that boundaries needed to be set in order to make his gf comfortable. She, in turn, decided that if she had to restrict her communications with him, she just didn't want to talk to him at all. Even better for me! After a weeks though, she was right back to calling or texting him... always with a random excuse. One time it was because he works for a Fortune 100 company and she wanted him to put in a good word for her with the department manager she applied with. Slowly but surely, the communication picked back up though. He is so concerned with not looking like an ******* to these girls that he can't even tell them to stop calling. He also doesn't want me to think that I'm running his life or some other immature foolishness that his ego has made up!

[Emilia]

I suppose I don't understand why you are so keen on this guy OP. You've been dating him on/off since you were 18? Time to date around a bit more? These are the easiest years for it, you can do much better.

[Emilia]

He is so concerned with not looking like an ******* to these girls that he can't even tell them to stop calling. He also doesn't want me to think that I'm running his life or some other immature foolishness that his ego has made up!

 

Oldest trick in the book. He is manipulating you.

[rocketman122]

if u feel its wrong and it bothers you then he needs to alleviate this stress from the relationship and not have contact with anybody you dont this healthy to the relationship. bu it works both ways.

 

I, out of respect to my lady and not wanting any bad energy or sexual tension to come between us, dont have any contact with any females. she does the same for me. if he tries to dismiss or downplay any of your concerns than to me that would be a big problem.

 

how would he handle it if it was the other way around? set him up. have a male friend contact you at night and then see how he likes it.

[Daisy-oliviaWentcher]

He is so concerned with not looking like an ******* to these girls that he can't even tell them to stop calling. He also doesn't want me to think that I'm running his life or some other immature foolishness that his ego has made up!

 

Well then easy, dump him. You won't be running his life then because you won't be in it! And you'll be having the time of your life, NOT having anything do with a silly ex ( he can have all the fun with his ex sordid complicated relationships) and you'll be with a highly respectable man who has wiped his slate clean of old relationships that are locked in a drawer that is labeled " done and dusted".

[kp15]

I ask him how he would feel if I did that to him all the time. His response is always that he wouldn't make a big deal over it because he trusts me. But of course he has to say that to rationalize what he's doing. In any case, I doubt giving him a taste of his own medicine will help him. It would probably just encourage him to continue doing what he's doing and actually feel justified in doing it. Your relationship sounds ideal right about now.

[Emilia]

I ask him how he would feel if I did that to him all the time. His response is always that he wouldn't make a big deal over it because he trusts me. But of course he has to say that to rationalize what he's doing. In any case, I doubt giving him a taste of his own medicine will help him. It would probably just encourage him to continue doing what he's doing and actually feel justified in doing it. Your relationship sounds ideal right about now.

 

He wouldn't be upset because he doesn't care....

[kp15]

It's hard to just walk away from almost 6 years with the man you love and have planned a future with. I'm so invested in this relationship. If walking away was that simple, I would have done it years ago. My ideal situation would be to get through to him and get past his stubbornness about the situation. Any suggestions on that?

[Emilia]

It's hard to just walk away from almost 6 years with the man you love and have planned a future with. I'm so invested in this relationship. If walking away was that simple, I would have done it years ago. My ideal situation would be to get through to him and get past his stubbornness about the situation. Any suggestions on that?

 

If you allow this view to persist, you are allowing yourself to form long attachment to men who will use you. Are your parents divorced? I'm trying to understand why you are clinging onto something that's so bad for you. I'm also trying to understand where your desire to control comes from.

[Daisy-oliviaWentcher]

Darling, It should have been over at the time that he was screwing you and someone else four years prior to having a so called "committed relationship" with you.

[minime13]

I ended up back with him because he claimed to see the error of his ways and agreed to severely limit his communications with Girl #1 (this was before I knew that he occasionally also communicated with Girl #2). He called her up and told her that it was not appropriate for her to be calling him at all hours of the night. He told her that boundaries needed to be set in order to make his gf comfortable. She, in turn, decided that if she had to restrict her communications with him, she just didn't want to talk to him at all. Even better for me! After a weeks though, she was right back to calling or texting him... always with a random excuse. One time it was because he works for a Fortune 100 company and she wanted him to put in a good word for her with the department manager she applied with. Slowly but surely, the communication picked back up though. He is so concerned with not looking like an ******* to these girls that he can't even tell them to stop calling. He also doesn't want me to think that I'm running his life or some other immature foolishness that his ego has made up!

 

Gone through this. I will tell you what it is.

 

She still wants him on the hook, and will keep doing this as long as he allows. She doesn't accept that there is someone more special than her in his life, and will do what she can to ruin it.

 

He is (sorry men, but I'm going to say it) too damn immature, at the age of 25, to completely understand the repercussions of allowing the drama that he kind of enjoys means that it could end this relationship. He is likely being honest about his feelings, but the fact that he doesn't let go of her (because she's relentlessly throwing herself at him) says that he does enjoy the drama that is 2 girls kind of fighting over him.

 

So, what do you want to do? Continue to deal with it and possibly let it destroy your relationship because, deep down, you cannot accept it, accept it, while realizing he'll probably grow out of it, or help him learn a life lesson?

 

That's pretty much what it boils down to. Men at that age are NOT going to be mature enough to do what they should to, in this respect. Sorry, they just are not.

[sandylee1]

I ended up back with him because he claimed to see the error of his ways and agreed to severely limit his communications with Girl #1 (this was before I knew that he occasionally also communicated with Girl #2). He called her up and told her that it was not appropriate for her to be calling him at all hours of the night. He told her that boundaries needed to be set in order to make his gf comfortable. She, in turn, decided that if she had to restrict her communications with him, she just didn't want to talk to him at all. Even better for me! After a weeks though, she was right back to calling or texting him... always with a random excuse. One time it was because he works for a Fortune 100 company and she wanted him to put in a good word for her with the department manager she applied with. Slowly but surely, the communication picked back up though. He is so concerned with not looking like an ******* to these girls that he can't even tell them to stop calling. He also doesn't want me to think that I'm running his life or some other immature foolishness that his ego has made up!

 

You're not overreacting.

 

He should block them if they don't listen to him and until you sort this out, don't move in with him.

 

Sexting and these late calls are not on.

 

ETA - If he can't instill boundaries now, then you'll have problems in your marriage. This is how many affairs start.

 

A man not stopping stupid women, who don't respect their relationships. His refusal to totally cut her off, when it bothers you so much is a big red flag to me.

Edited June 3, 2015 by sandylee1
eta

[kendahke]

He is so concerned with not looking like an ******* to these girls that he can't even tell them to stop calling. He also doesn't want me to think that I'm running his life or some other immature foolishness that his ego has made up!

 

This relationship of yours will never work out if this is his mindset. You are resorting to trying to run his life because he won't mind you: he's not going to let you dictate to him who his friends are and who he can and cannot talk to, including past FWB's who call him at 2:30am. No, it's not appropriate for him to receive calls and chick should have been on block the first time she stepped out of line---but he didn't do that because it's more important to him to not look like a ******* to these girls than it is to give you peace of mind.

 

Life is too short and youth is too fleeting for you to waste any more time behind someone who is clearly telling you that you don't matter enough to him to cut the foolishness out of his life. Don't waste your youth--something you'll never get back--behind a man who can't open a can of "act right". 35 will be here sooner than you think and you need to arrive there with a whole lot less stress wearing you down and this relationship is nothing but stress.

 

You can't possibly need this man that badly that you'd twist yourself up into a stress-pretzel in order to keep him. One day, you're not going to like who you see looking back at you in the mirror behind this guy. Proceed at your own peril.

[kendahke]

It's hard to just walk away from almost 6 years with the man you love and have planned a future with. I'm so invested in this relationship. If walking away was that simple, I would have done it years ago.

 

It is simple to walk away. Change is always easy. It's the decision to change that is hard--because you are too busy convincing yourself that it's wisdom to keep bailing out a boat with its hull gouged out because it was once a nice boat.

 

I was with a man for 13 years who ended up cheating on me and believe me, the decision to walk away was extremely difficult, but you know what? The minute I made up my mind to walk away, the change was swift. Did I mourn and sob? Yes, I did for quite a while, but I eventually got through it. You can't avoid doing something that is in your best interests because you dont' want to deal with unpleasant feelings--better unpleasant feelings than an STD you can't get rid of.

 

My ideal situation would be to get through to him and get past his stubbornness about the situation. Any suggestions on that?

 

What you are asking are for instructions on how to change him and no one can tell you that. He has no interest in being who you want him to be--that is something you need to accept. If he doesn't come to it of his own volition, then that means there is nothing about you that moves him to want to come correct. You cannot make a grown man do/act/feel/think/want/behave in a way that he already doesn't want to do/act/feel/think/want/behave. The only person you can control is yourself and the only thing you can control is the proximity to which you place your person in regards to him.

 

He understands you clearly already--you have gotten through to him the first time you had this discussion. The problem here is you: you won't hear what he is saying and what his behavior is telling you. Get your head out of the sand: your 6 year investment isn't going to pay out like you want it to, so you need to withdraw your resources from the drain into which they are pouring.

 

Until he comes to you of his own volition with verifiable proof that he's not about that life anymore, you're wasting your youth with him. He's not who you need for him to be. Understand that and quit hoodwinking yourself.

[katiegrl]

I ended up back with him because he claimed to see the error of his ways and agreed to severely limit his communications with Girl #1 (this was before I knew that he occasionally also communicated with Girl #2). He called her up and told her that it was not appropriate for her to be calling him at all hours of the night.

 

**He told her that boundaries needed to be set in order to make his gf comfortable.***

 

She, in turn, decided that if she had to restrict her communications with him, she just didn't want to talk to him at all. Even better for me! After a weeks though, she was right back to calling or texting him... always with a random excuse. One time it was because he works for a Fortune 100 company and she wanted him to put in a good word for her with the department manager she applied with. Slowly but surely, the communication picked back up though. He is so concerned with not looking like an ******* to these girls that he can't even tell them to stop calling. He also doesn't want me to think that I'm running his life or some other immature foolishness that his ego has made up!

 

kp... re my quote in asterisk above. He tells her to back off because it makes YOU (his girlfriend) uncomfortable?? So YOU are the bad guy for making him give up this oh-so-important *friendship* with a woman he has had sex with..as recently as last summer?? Who calls him at all hours of the morning because of godonlyknows what reason?

 

That is effed up. How about him telling her to back off because he is in a relationship, and he is not interested in her anymore!!

 

No, he could never say that..it's all YOUR fault because you are uncomfortable with it.

 

That would piss me off, I would have never taken him back!

 

I think you know what you need to do here.....good luck.

Edited June 3, 2015 by katiegrl