Hopeful30 Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 (edited) Im realizing more and more that the reason I remain single is because I just cant relate to most people. I have deep thoughts, Ive been through a lot in life despite my age (26) and it seems most people in their 20s that I meet have no concept of compassion, empathy or cant have a deep conversation because their lives have been mediocre. This isnt a bad thing of course, but I come from a Soviet background where life was once tough, where I faced a lot of family difficulties and inner struggles as a result of a traumatic childhood. It makes you grow up muchh faster and have a particular understanding about life. Am I the odd one out here? Do most people have easier lives and thats why I just cant connect with them? This just....sucks. Are we really so few? Edited June 2, 2015 by Hopeful30 3
Gaeta Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 About trying to date men that are a little older therefore have more life baggage or maybe date men from your country of origin? It's normal to relate better with someone that has a bit of a same history than you. I have a better connection with men that are parents because I am a mother, I relate better with men that have been in 10+ years relationships because I have been in a 15+ year relationship. 1
toscaroscura Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 Yes. I have broken up with a guy because he wasn't deep (among other reasons). I would try to start more in-depth conversations* and he would almost TRY to reject them. He was an engineer too, so it's not like he wasn't smart. When I confronted him, he got defensive and asked why we had to talk about such things? Why couldn't we just be more "natural"?** I'm not some sort of elitist intellectual or anything, but if I throw out a conversation thread and desire to dig deeper, and I get shoulder shrugs or truncated responses, I'm going to move on to, er, deeper oceans. * I know sometimes when people say they want "deep", they are looking for "debates" or other such tiring things. I'm not argumentative or confrontational, so it's not like I was starting anything controversial or uncomfortable. I just wanted to explore his thoughts and feelings on things, and mine too. ** After the relationship was over and looking back, I realized that his reluctance to go deeper was indicative of his fear of intimacy. He was quite needy and clingy, but it wasn't ME he loved, he just wanted a Girlfriend and didn't care too much about who I really was below the surface. When I got too deep, it probably rocked his comfortable fantasies about me/us. 5
Author Hopeful30 Posted June 2, 2015 Author Posted June 2, 2015 (edited) ^toscaroscura Yes! I love digging deep but most of the time Im disappointed. "deep" for some people means admitting they are alwas late for their job cuz they hate it, something trivial like that. Its disappointing. I have always only dated older men but the problem with that is baggage. They all have kids or heavy divorces etc and Im only 26, I dont need any of that lol Ive also dated other Russians but they just drink or escape into drugs. No thanks lol Edited June 2, 2015 by Hopeful30
dyna85 Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 Im realizing more and more that the reason I remain single is because I just cant relate to most people. I have deep thoughts, Ive been through a lot in life despite my age (26) and it seems most people in their 20s that I meet have no concept of compassion, empathy or cant have a deep conversation because their lives have been mediocre. This isnt a bad thing of course, but I come from a Soviet background where life was once tough, where I faced a lot of family difficulties and inner struggles as a result of a traumatic childhood. It makes you grow up muchh faster and have a particular understanding about life. Am I the odd one out here? Do most people have easier lives and thats why I just cant connect with them? This just....sucks. Are we really so few? I think we are. Unfortunately. I have been through some rough experiences also and find it difficult to find an empathetic soul to whom I am attracted to on an emotional, physical, and spiritual level. Sometimes I feel hopeless, but then I look at my parents and grandparents and realize that there HAS to be a guy out there who is on the same wavelength. We can't give up hope. There's gotta be someone out there for us!!! 1
Gaeta Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 I love digging deep but most of the time Im disappointed. "deep" for some people means admitting they are alwas late for their job cuz they hate it, something trivial like that. Its disappointing. Not everything we like is meant to be shared with our boyfriend. Exampe if I have a passion for philosophy it doesn't mean I need to find a man with the same passion to have a fulfilling relationship. I can be part of a philosophy group and fullfill my need of phylosophy with other people sharing my passion. You like digging deep well digging deep is not really the passion of many men. About you fulfill this side of you with others that shares your passion? 4
deadelvis Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 I have also struggled with this a lot in my life. I have found it is generally easier to accept a partner as they are and not force my "boring, longwinded, esoteric, philosiphical meanderings" on my partner. If you find someone who is interested in having those conversations then you are lucky. I instead find others (usually friends of the same gender as myself) who I can engage in those conversations with. I met a guy at the bar this weekend and we spent 2 hours talking about early 20th century literature. It was great because that's something my partner isn't interested in. It was really nice to have that conversation with someone. But I don't expect my partner to have the same interests as me. I would love finding a partner who was interested in late 70's punk music, digital synthesizer programming, existential philosophy, classic literature and sustainable architectural practices... but realistically... I've found it's just easier to have those conversations with my peers and allow our relationship to exist without those expectations. I don't need a partner to align with 100% of my interests. Honestly just getting along well and being compatible is enough. I can have those deep talks with my friends. 2
MissBee Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 (edited) Im realizing more and more that the reason I remain single is because I just cant relate to most people. I have deep thoughts, Ive been through a lot in life despite my age (26) and it seems most people in their 20s that I meet have no concept of compassion, empathy or cant have a deep conversation because their lives have been mediocre. This isnt a bad thing of course, but I come from a Soviet background where life was once tough, where I faced a lot of family difficulties and inner struggles as a result of a traumatic childhood. It makes you grow up muchh faster and have a particular understanding about life. Am I the odd one out here? Do most people have easier lives and thats why I just cant connect with them? This just....sucks. Are we really so few? Yesss. That's one of my struggles as well, finding men with depth. Fortunately, my friends are people who have depth and think about the world, they do a lot of things, have various experiences and aspirations and think beyond the humdrum of daily life. But in dating it's been difficult to find that and I eventually become bored and dissatisfied if the man I'm with isn't on that level. For me it's not about easy necessarily but just having depth and that's not a dime a dozen and is hard to find. It's not impossible but I've fully expected it won't come around easily. I have complained that if you're a shallow person life is far simpler than when you think too much but unfortunately you can't is pay pretend or revert to being shallow. Don't give up though. I disagree that men don't dig deep. It's not about if you're a man or woman. Many people in general don't but there are people who do and I think you can hold out for that. Ultimately, if you feel bored or dissatisfied with a partner it won't work out long term and I think that should be the benchmark. Edited June 2, 2015 by MissBee 1
deadelvis Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 This is interesting to read. As a man I have found it to be the opposite. Most of my male friends are very well read and intellectual. And we have long deep talks on a range of topics. Generally our girlfriends are more interested in "keeping it light" 1
MissBee Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 (edited) Yes. I have broken up with a guy because he wasn't deep (among other reasons). I would try to start more in-depth conversations* and he would almost TRY to reject them. He was an engineer too, so it's not like he wasn't smart. When I confronted him, he got defensive and asked why we had to talk about such things? Why couldn't we just be more "natural"?** I'm not some sort of elitist intellectual or anything, but if I throw out a conversation thread and desire to dig deeper, and I get shoulder shrugs or truncated responses, I'm going to move on to, er, deeper oceans. * I know sometimes when people say they want "deep", they are looking for "debates" or other such tiring things. I'm not argumentative or confrontational, so it's not like I was starting anything controversial or uncomfortable. I just wanted to explore his thoughts and feelings on things, and mine too. ** After the relationship was over and looking back, I realized that his reluctance to go deeper was indicative of his fear of intimacy. He was quite needy and clingy, but it wasn't ME he loved, he just wanted a Girlfriend and didn't care too much about who I really was below the surface. When I got too deep, it probably rocked his comfortable fantasies about me/us. I could have written this word for frickin word. Did we date the same guy??? Last bf was an engineer too and I had the EXACT same experience and conclusions. There are different kinds of smart and I realize that his kind wasn't the kind I like. His was a technical, task oriented smart which was impressive only sometimes but since he lacked a greater breadth and depth of intelligence and emotions it was very flat and annoying to me. I realized for him too he feared intimacy and he also just wanted a gf who fit a certain superficial profile regardless of who. I checked his superficial boxes of attractive and educated and that's it. He spent an inordinate amount of time saying how impressive I would be to his family who was judgmental about ambition and education and how I was an upgrade because his last gf "only had a Masters. " I thought it was strange but didn't realize until later that literally that's all that mattered, he thought I was pretty and I was educated and go to a prestigious school so he can tell his family that but beyond that he didn't care about what I actually did, never asked about my research, never asked about my family, my childhood, about my feelings, about my thoughts, about any issues in the world, nothing.... And everytime I tried he would become annoyed or just agree with everything I said because he "didn't like to argue" even though like you mentioned, I was never arguing or debating simply sharing a thought or asking for his. I realized arguing for him was anything that required thinking. It was very frustrating and disappointing for me when I realized he was very superficial and shallow and had no deep thoughts about anything and everything was a shoulder shrug or something very simplistic and I realized I can never be with anyone like that and be happy. Edited June 2, 2015 by MissBee 3
bebe23 Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 I also wish my husband could open up and speak with more depth. I would like to talk about spiritual topics, emotional issues, world peace, etc., but he just grunts 'I dunno.' Then I ask him what he would like to talk about, and he just says 'sex.' Men are men, and I accept that I ended up with someone very simple and practical. So I keep my philosophical thoughts to myself. Or journal or write about them. That's what blogging is for, sigh... 1
Rejected Rosebud Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 I understand what you're saying but it kind of takes me aback that you are so sure the people aren't deep as you are and that their lives have been "mediocre" though!! I mean maybe and I am sure you have been though more difficulties than most middle class american people but maybe some of this is not about how shallow and mediocre other people are?? 1
deadelvis Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 (edited) It's really not fair to put any expectations like that on a partner. The day my partner starts taking an interest in antique motorcycle restoration perhaps I will take an interest in theatrical make-up techniques. Get my point. Everyone is entitled to their own interests and hobbies. Sharing common interests is great but communication is more important. Men and women come from very different places. I read Nietzsche, she reads Thich Nhat Hanh. We still are able to talk about our thoughts and feelings, but people all come from different backgrounds. I would actually find it pretty boring to date someone who thinks just like me. But the important things is that they are thinking at all. People who don't think deeply IMO are afraid of unravelling the fragile illusions their life has been built on. I worked with some guys who were very "brainwashed" by television and media. Any time I steered the conversation toward the deep end, they would just mock me and direct the conversation back toward silly nonsense like TV or sex. I eventually realized this was due in part to a deep fear inside them. The door slams shut as soon as anything critical or thought provoking starts to creep through. To think beyond the material world undermines the foundation of their very existence. Deep thoughts are threatening to people who don't want to examine their own lives, to search for deeper meaning and purpose is uncomfortable when ones own life lacks deeper meaning and purpose. Edited June 2, 2015 by deadelvis 2
MissBee Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 I also wish my husband could open up and speak with more depth. I would like to talk about spiritual topics, emotional issues, world peace, etc., but he just grunts 'I dunno.' Then I ask him what he would like to talk about, and he just says 'sex.' Men are men, and I accept that I ended up with someone very simple and practical. So I keep my philosophical thoughts to myself. Or journal or write about them. That's what blogging is for, sigh... Men aren't men...in that some of the greatest philosophers, thinkers, spiritual leaders, people who think about peace are men. So I'm not sure why people have decided "men don't think about these things" when men clearly do think about these things. It's purely a matter of the individual. Some people don't think very broadly or deeply, men or women. I think we should top promoting the idea that it's a man thing. It isn't. It's a some people thing. I've dated men who had depth and many of my male friends are guys I can talk about these things with and many of the men I sit in classrooms with also think on a deep level...which makes it hard for me to accept that I should just date a simple man who never thinks as "the norm" because men aren't deep. Even some men on LS, I can name one, TheWholigan, for example, is a guy I'd consider very critical, sharp and deep in his thinking. I think it's purely one's choice if one will settle down with someone who isn't deep and one had to weigh the pros and cons of it. I know for me being stimulated intellectually and wanting a man I learn from and who challenged me is something I NEED to be happy. I've tried the nice, shallow, not very deep guy...I was bored and frustrated very quickly and for me I never fell in love. Whereas I was only able to fall in love with the men I could really talk to on a deeper level. So it's possible. It's like with any other aspect of dating, if that's not negotiable for you, you can choose to only be serious with men who exhibit that trait. It will not be a dime a dozen because I think more people are shallow than not, but it's certainly not impossible or something men are "naturally" omitted from.
MissBee Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 It's really not fair to put any expectations like that on a partner. The day my partner starts taking an interest in antique motorcycle restoration perhaps I will take an interest in theatrical make-up techniques. Get my point. Everyone is entitled to their own interests and hobbies. Sharing common interests is great but communication is more important. Men and women come from very different places. I read Nietzsche, she reads Thich Nhat Hanh. We still are able to talk about our thoughts and feelings, but people all come from different backgrounds. I would actually find it pretty boring to date someone who thinks just like me. But the important things is that they are thinking at all. People who don't think deeply IMO are afraid of unravelling the fragile illusions their life has been built on. I worked with some guys who were very "brainwashed" by television and media. Any time I steered the conversation toward the deep end, they would just mock me and direct the conversation back toward silly nonsense like TV or sex. I eventually realized this was due in part to a deep fear inside them. The door slams shut as soon as anything critical or thought provoking starts to creep through. To think beyond the material world undermines the foundation of their very existence. Deep thoughts are threatening to people who don't want to examine their own lives, to search for deeper meaning and purpose is uncomfortable when ones own life lacks deeper meaning and purpose. Interests and hobbies have nothing to do with having depth. Having depth doesn't dictate your interests and hobbies. But I disagree that you can't expect that from a partner, you can. You can't force people who aren't like that to be that way, but it is perfectly reasonable and logical to choose to date people who speak to you on that level. If it doesn't bother you then it doesn't matter naturally. But if that is something you need, you are well within your right to have expectations of that in a partner and choose people based on them being compatible in depth (which again isn't about hobbies or interests). 3
deadelvis Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 (edited) I think the hobbies and interests thing is relevant because there's a big overlap between our activities and our conversations. Like when I'm working on motorcycles all day, my conversation at the end of the day might start like "I was thinking about the way our cultural expectations of the future inform our technological innovations. During the great depression the design sensibilities of art deco reflected a hope for a better world through improved mechanical engineering and design. When the automotive and architectural aesthetics of the 1930's incorporated the streamlined features of aviation technology it wasn't as much an attempt to reduce drag and increase airflow as much as a nod to the future and an unspoken promise to the American people that the world was going to improve and our technology would save us from the finincial hardships we were enduring as a nation." Deep thoughts aren't always about the afterlife, philosophy or spiritualism. They can come from our everyday experiences and interests. My current SO enjoys having conversations about all different aspects of life, and looking deeper at the world around us. My past SO however did not enjoy these types of conversations and got annoyed by them. Our hobbies and passions very much dictate our thought patterns and ideas. No topic is immune from deeper analysis. But unfortunately people tend to avoid looking critically at anything. It's more a question of being the type of person who engages in deeper talks, or the type of person who avoids them at all cost. Edited June 2, 2015 by deadelvis 1
MissBee Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 It's more a question of being the type of person who engages in deeper talks, or the type of person who avoids them at all cost. I agree with this aspect. I said hobbies and interests don't matter because of the bold. I may like painting as a hobby and a man may like cooking as his hobby. That's fine. It doesn't really matter. Being deep thinkers doesn't preclude having particular hobbies. What it does mean is that regardless of our hobbies we tend to engage in deeper talks and can express deeper ideas with each other about our own hobbies or about things unrelated to our hobbies. 1
Author Hopeful30 Posted June 2, 2015 Author Posted June 2, 2015 Not everything we like is meant to be shared with our boyfriend. Exampe if I have a passion for philosophy it doesn't mean I need to find a man with the same passion to have a fulfilling relationship. I can be part of a philosophy group and fullfill my need of phylosophy with other people sharing my passion. You like digging deep well digging deep is not really the passion of many men. About you fulfill this side of you with others that shares your passion? I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say. He can be deep in his own way, as long as theres depth. Thats what I feel is lacking in many people. 3
Mrlonelyone Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 A.) Yes deep thinkers are very few in number. I know people hate this but IQ is a measure of general intelligence. There are very few people with an IQ that is two standard deviations of the mean above average. Only 2.2% of people are "gifted" in that way. That 2.2% accounts for the most talented of our doctors, lawyers, scientist, artist and musicians. Observation that proves this: Not everyone is Newton, Einstein, Hawking, Leonardo, Aristotle, Napoleon, Ghenghis Kahn, Shaka Zulu, Martin Luther King, or even just a Neil DeGrasse Tyson or a John Forbes Nash. B.) Complaining about this will not solve anything. A good way to be happy is to find someone who can love and accept and support you. While an intellectual equal is nice to have as in Marie and Pierre Currie it can also be a very contentious thing to have as in Albert Einstein and Mileva Maric...or House and Dr. Cuddy. TLDR People who are deep thinkers are likely to have higher IQ's even if not formally educated and by definition such people are relatively few in number. This shouldn't be any more controversial than saying that not everyone can play ball like Michael Jordan but it is. 1
todreaminblue Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 my ex wasnt much of deep thinker i was with him for fifteen years..we had some really in depth conversations because i bought out that side in him......but what he had was compassion for others he did volunteer work....we had common interests we could talk about.....he wasnt really into spirituality....he did believe in god.....but i wanted to explore more my spiritual side....we never really could...... i think it sort of balances out if you have a deep thinker with a doer......he was the doer i was the dreamer.....and we would talk in relation to that......i can ask a hundred questions...and his answers were always simplistic and straight to the point....and sometimes i really appreciated that........ that was him and i accepted him as he was ...as he accepted me..he hated poetry always...hated literature...i got him reading i bought him books i knew he would appreciate due to the fact of my hundred questions an hour.......... and he adored my poetry..for the most part......considering he is now an ex...i dont expect deep conversations all the time......its nice though when all is quiet and the world is asleep to be talking with the one you love....even better if you are smiling while doing it.......deb
candie13 Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 different cultural background opened you up to the world and offered you deeper insight. how can you hope to relate to a person who's not been exposed to other realities? I feel for you, but obviously the way you've "played" so far was unsatisfactory. So change the rules of the game. Meet people with similar background - former communist countries or at least who have lived abroad. Changing continents - even if that was at a very young age - changes you profoundly. What was seen cannot be unseen. Sooo... you got lemons... cannot pretend your water tastes like water. Might as well learn how to make lemonade... and even add some vodka and have a party .
Male Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 I have always only dated older men but the problem with that is baggage. They all have kids or heavy divorces etc and Im only 26, I dont need any of that lol Ive also dated other Russians but they just drink or escape into drugs. No thanks lol How ironic....I'm 44 and here in the U.S. I get rejected by majority of women because I "dont have kids". They assume I'm not a man, and couldnt possibly know how to deal with their kids since I dont have any of my own.
lino Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 Would take me centuries to find someone GENUINELY deep. My girl is tops and I love her but definitely not deep. Finding a woman under forty who doesn't think sex and the city is based on a true story is a genuine mission! No one lives forever. 1
jen1447 Posted June 3, 2015 Posted June 3, 2015 "I was thinking about the way our cultural expectations of the future inform our technological innovations. During the great depression the design sensibilities of art deco reflected a hope for a better world through improved mechanical engineering and design. When the automotive and architectural aesthetics of the 1930's incorporated the streamlined features of aviation technology it wasn't as much an attempt to reduce drag and increase airflow as much as a nod to the future and an unspoken promise to the American people that the world was going to improve and our technology would save us from the finincial hardships we were enduring as a nation." I may not be terribly deep but I'm not shallow either and that was a total coma moment.
Male Posted June 3, 2015 Posted June 3, 2015 Would take me centuries to find someone GENUINELY deep. My girl is tops and I love her but definitely not deep. Finding a woman under forty who doesn't think sex and the city is based on a true story is a genuine mission! No one lives forever. HaHa!! I find it very difficult to find a woman that is into science/astronomy(not astrology)/philosophy. She doesnt need to be obsessed with the stuff, but at least realize basics like how the solar system works, that our Sun is very large, that stars are very far away, you know, basics. Another thing that is obviously imensely popular her in the U.S. at least is the endless appetite for stupid reality shows. How come everyone hated wrestling because it was fake, but watching fake reality shows is the most popular and cool thing to do??
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