How far can you stretch an agreement before you actually break it?

[Ash_Bec]

I’ve been fighting with my girlfriend for a few weeks now and she is adamant she has done nothing wrong but I can’t see how she thinks that, to me she is clearly wrong. I’m just seeking out other peoples opinions in the hope that I am right to stick to my guns and am not making a fool of myself.

 

She is bi curious and I have often said to her that if the opportunity arose I’d be happy for her to pursue it as long as she told me all about it. So it happened and she did tell me all about it but there’s a certain aspect of it that I’m not happy about.

 

She went away for a week to a hens night one weekend followed by the wedding the following weekend. During that week one of the other girls there kissed her and she did what we had discussed and rang me and told me, I encouraged her to pursue it if she wanted. I get a call later in the week saying that she had done it and that she wouldn’t tell me about it she would show me as they had recorded it. She sent a small minute long sample and I could watch the rest when I went up for the wedding or when we got home. It was awesome to watch that sample and I couldn’t wait. I would also get to meet the other girl as she was told all about what was going on.

 

So I get up to the wedding the night before and I’m real keen to watch the recording but very quickly my delight turned to devastation when about 5 minutes in the camera zooms in! I admit I was angry and asked who was operating the camera and she tells me it was the other girls boyfriend. Now she swears that nothing happened between them, that he just watched, but I still find that unacceptable. She thinks it’s just a big joke and can’t understand what I was worried about.

 

I was so angry I didn’t go to the wedding which caused a few issues. Apparently (so I’m told by others) that she left the reception very early with that couple. She admits to that and says they went back and did it again and he watched and it’s my own fault because I should have been there watching too.

 

Now am I being petty here like she says or are my feelings valid? I can’t see how permission to be with another girl can be stretched into including a guy even if he is only watching. All I want is an apology and a commitment that it will never include a guy again. I have no desire to hold this over her forever but her reluctance to even accept she was even a little bit wrong has me worried .

[jen1447]

You're dabbling in the open world bro, this is what you get. Time to put on your big boy pants.

 

Third party camera operators aren't at all unusual in those situations. Your GF was right in saying that if you'd kept your sh*t together, you could have been there watching too.

 

The 'rules' for a standard relationship would obvs prohibit this kind of thing but they'd also prohibit her getting with another girl anyway. So you're out of that world and into the next, and unless you put limits on exactly what can and can't be done ahead of time, you shouldn't be all shocked by this.

 

I actually feel bad for your GF too bc you f*cked up the wedding for her by doing the little bitch routine too and just generally acting like a baby. If I were you I'd apologize and ask for a do-over, make it up to her, and then discuss any extra rules you have going forward.

 

This is what you get for thinking you're 'the man' with girl-bi stuff and then in reality not being able to handle it when the fantasy play doesn't keep in check with what we really do and you get in over your head.

 

Sorry to bitch but it's a personal gripe of mine.

[Ash_Bec]

You can't tell a girl to go do sh*t with other people and then get angry when she does things with other people. You just opened Pandora's box.

 

I'm sorry but that's not right at all. I said (we agreed) that if a situation came up and she could be with another woman that I would be fine with that. There is no way to envisage that a guy would be there too. You can't possibly cover every single circumstance in discussions about this sort of thing, I mean I never specifically said don't have sex in public but clearly that would be wrong. I never said don't have sex with animals but that's just a no brainer.

 

Common sense has to apply. I have given her the freedom to explore her sexuality with other women. I think bringing in another man even though he was only watching is crossing that boundary from common sense to stuff you I do what I want. Even if the line was blurred the first time she absolutely knew I objected to it but still did it a second time.

 

I actually feel bad for your GF too bc you f*cked up the wedding for her by doing the little bitch routine too and just generally acting like a baby. If I were you I'd apologize and ask for a do-over, make it up to her, and then discuss any extra rules you have going forward.

 

I was wrong with what happened about the wedding and I have already said sorry.

 

I believe the rules were very clear to start with, she could do stuff with other women. While there was no specific ban on anyone watching surely a reasonable person would run that by their partner first? You seem to think it was ok that there was this third party camera operator, what about if there was 2, or 3 or more... where do we stop? None of those situations were discussed prior, so would having a crowd in there also have been ok?

[Arieswoman]

Ash-bec,

Oh dear, you let the genii out of the bottle and now it won't go back in...

 

All I want is an apology and a commitment that it will never include a guy again.

 

If you have asked for this ^^ and she won't give it then I think you are on a hiding to nothing as you've reached an impasse.

 

Either drop it or break up with her.

 

Incidently, I don't believe that the other guy wasn't involved sexually in some way, but that's just my opinion.....

[Ash_Bec]

If you have asked for this ^^ and she won't give it then I think you are on a hiding to nothing as you've reached an impasse.

 

She has said that she will not include anyone else now that she knows I don't like it. Oh please, like she couldn't assume I wouldn't have liked it? But she refuses to apologize because she believes she did nothing wrong, there was no rule saying she couldn't. I try to explain that there is no rule for many things but common sense applies, for example we never discussed a rule that said I couldn't sleep with other women but it's clear because common sense tells me that I shouldn't ever do that. She just doesn't get it and that is frustrating. I don't want to just drop it and let her believe that what she did was ok because it wasn't.

 

Incidently, I don't believe that the other guy wasn't involved sexually in some way, but that's just my opinion.....

 

Well I have no way of knowing but I have put my trust in my girlfriend here. I don't believe she would do that to me but then again I didn't for a minute think that she would get some guy to film her first time with another girl (which apparently was all done for me and I should be grateful).

[jen1447]

So Ash_Bec, let me get this straight - you came on here ostensibly to get opinions, but once you get them you want to argue the toss? Fair enough, but if you already made up your mind, why even ask?

[Clarence_Boddicker]

I don't get your anger. Are you upset that some random guy got to see your GF nude? Or, do you think she did something with him? Do you get bent out of shape if some guy in public looks at your GF? Did you specifically tell your GF that no one else but the other girl was supposed to see what was going on?

[Ash_Bec]

So Ash_Bec, let me get this straight - you came on here ostensibly to get opinions, but once you get them you want to argue the toss? Fair enough, but if you already made up your mind, why even ask?

 

I do value the opinons, I find them illogical, but I take them on board nonetheless. Just because I don't roll over and say yes you're right does not mean I'm not listening.

 

Did you specifically tell your GF that no one else but the other girl was supposed to see what was going on?

 

No.

 

And i guess that's where the problem started and where the issue lies between us now. But then again I never said many things, I never said she couldn't have a group there cheering her along but clearly that would be inappropriate don't you agree?

 

I guess I just feel that inviting another guy in (and we will assume he just watched) lacked common sense. Surely she must have known I would not be comfortable with that? And there can be no excuse for the second time when she knew the first time upset me.

 

I'm not trying to argue the point (well maybe I am) but surely my point holds some validity? Saying yes to being with another woman does not equal saying yes to another woman with a man watching, do you agree?

[jen1447]

Sounds like you're just looking for people to tell you you're right. Like I thought.

 

If you really want to consider all the possibilities, you won't debate them. You don't have to roll over, but if you come here asking in good faith, it's incumbent upon you to consider what's offered. I gave you some feedback as an insider - i.e. someone who knows things you don't know - and all you did in response is argue your case. You've done pretty much the same thing with everyone here.

 

You're not cut out for this lifestyle - take that to heart if you reject everything else.

[Ash_Bec]

Sounds like you're just looking for people to tell you you're right. Like I thought.

 

I believe I am right. And yes I was looking for conformation of that. Of course if the vast majority of replies suggest I am being petty I will have no choice but to reassess.

 

I still find it difficult to believe that people think it's ok to include someone that wasn't specifically mentioned in any discussions, I seriously do not get that logic.

 

If my girlfriend allowed me to be with another woman as well and I did that but had the Dallas Cheerleaders watching then that is not ok in my world.

 

If I am understanding you correctly because that was never discussed that would be ok by your standards?

[jen1447]

While you're deliberately using outlandish examples to try to maneuver the situation to your favor, the answer is still essentially yes. What you did was allow a non-traditional sexual ethic to take the place of the old one in your relationship, and you failed to define it in any meaningful way. So a third party guy filmed the action - in the open relationship world, that's pretty benign. But here you are freaking out about it.

 

Anyway I didn't post to debate the merits with you, I posted to advise you on what some other points of view on this might be, which is what you essentially asked for before you started fighting for yours and thus wrecked your impartiality and any chance you'd have of learning something here and broadening your mind.

 

Like I said above, just do everyone a favor and get out of this asap.

[Ash_Bec]

the answer is still essentially yes.

 

Wow. I'll have to keep that in mind seeing as though there is many many many things that my girlfriend has not specifically told me I cannot do. I might just have to act on them and according to your logic she will be fine with that because she never specifically said I couldn't.

 

Now of course I won't do that because I have common sense and more respect for my partner than to use the "but you never said I couldn't" lame excuse.

 

But thanks for your input anyway. It's interesting to learn the type of people who are out there.

[jen1447]

Seriously tho, why did you even post this thread? You couldn't possibly know or even expect that everyone would agree with you. I don't get it.

[CC12]

You were completely into watching them lez out on each other until you learned that the other boyfriend had already watched them. I think you're being hypocritical.

 

Both of their boyfriends got to watch. That seems fair.

 

Thanks for posting this, OP. It's interesting to learn the type of people who are out there.

[Heracles]

You did not agree beforehand for another man to be involved in any way (even passively) in her experience with another woman.

 

If she respected you, she would have consulted you before agreeing to let another man film it. She cannot pretend not to be cognizant of the fact that it would be a problem for you and that you would not agree.

 

To add insult to the injury, she went ahead and did it again, telling you that it's your fault and you should have been there to watch.

 

What is happening is that she understands that you are deeply emotionally invested in the relationship and she can afford to do these things without repercussions

[preraph]

Who the hell cares whether it's a man or a woman? If you are saying it being a woman can't be a serious thing, then you are wrong. There is just as much risk with her sleeping with a woman as a man. You opened the relationship and now you can't handle it. Open relationships rarely ever work. If you want one, do not ever get married. If you don't want one, you still don't get to say who she can and can't have sex with if you've opened that door. Sounds to me like she was probably mostly doing it to impress you but then it backfired on her.

[Ash_Bec]

you still don't get to say who she can and can't have sex with if you've opened that door.

 

Well actually yes I do. I'm not sure how it works for you but "opening" a relationship does not have a pre-determined set of rules like Monopoly, everyone discusses what will and wont happen and agrees on their own set of rules.

 

Our rule was she could be with another woman, she went with another woman with a man watching, that was not our agreement. I have tried putting myself in other posters shoes that have commented and I still fail to see how anyone believes that it is ok for that to happen or that it's just part of having an open relationship.

 

I would have thought trust was paramount, by bending or breaking the rules agreed upon you bend or break the trust. Allowing someone else to be there, filming or not, is breaking that trust.

 

I came here expecting a majority to agree with that and I am legitimately surprised that's not the case. But each to their own, if they can live their lives with vague rules then more power to them, while I am comfortable sharing my girlfriend in certain circumstances I need defined rules.

[kgcolonel]

Okay, let's take a step back for a second and say your girl did not think she was violating your boundaries on her initial experience with her girlfriend. The bigger issue that I see is the second instance after the wedding where she left with the couple and re-enacted the scene knowing full well that act one sent you reeling. This seems to exhibit a complete lack of the basic components needed for either a conventional relationship or an open relationship. Thoughts?

[Methodical]

She asked and you gave her the go ahead, and she did. Furthermore, she sent you a video clip and told you you'd get to see the rest in a few days...at the wedding.

 

YOUR WORDS...after seeing the clip, you couldn't wait to see the rest. Did you think the phone could balance itself and rotate to catch all the action? Would it have been fine if a girl had been recording the action?

 

In one post, your concern seems to be that the bf may have possibly gotten involved. (Altho she has assured you he didn't.) Then, in another post your issue seems to be bc the bf was present and recording it.

 

Honestly, if she thought she was doing something wrong or shady, would she have shared it with you? No. She would have told you what happened between her and the girl and left it at that.

 

You have established that you were upset so I'm not getting into the wedding issue bc you have admitted over reacting and there is no point beating a dead horse.

 

Why is it so hard for you to say, "Okay, I can see where she didn't *think* she was doing anything wrong, otherwise, she'd have hidden the fact or lied about the bf being present, so moving forward we need to establish clearer boundaries to avoid this situation?"

 

Wouldn't that be a mature compromise? What has happened can't be changed. Do you really believe she thought she was doing something wrong at the time?

Being malicious? I don't.

[Ash_Bec]

YOUR WORDS...after seeing the clip, you couldn't wait to see the rest. Did you think the phone could balance itself and rotate to catch all the action?

 

The camera was on a tripod (I found out later) so there was no shaking or anything, there were even times when it missed the action because the camera didn't move. But when it zoomed in it was clear there was someone operating it.

 

Would it have been fine if a girl had been recording the action?

 

Yeah it would have been. She was given the ok to explore with girls, not with men.

 

Honestly, if she thought she was doing something wrong or shady, would she have shared it with you? No. She would have told you what happened between her and the girl and left it at that.

 

OK, I get it now. Thank You. This makes sense to me now. Maybe it took a while to catch on but I can process and make sense of it now.

 

Why is it so hard for you to say, "Okay, I can see where she didn't *think* she was doing anything wrong, otherwise, she'd have hidden the fact or lied about the bf being present, so moving forward we need to establish clearer boundaries to avoid this situation?"

 

Wouldn't that be a mature compromise? What has happened can't be changed. Do you really believe she thought she was doing something wrong at the time?

Being malicious? I don't.

 

When it's explained this way it makes so much sense to me now. Maybe others were saying the same thing but their words didn't strike a chord with me like these words do.

 

I still have issue with the second time where she clearly knew she was doing something wrong but after my display about the wedding I have to share some of that blame but so does she.

 

Thank you for opening my eyes.

[Methodical]

When it's explained this way it makes so much sense to me now. Maybe others were saying the same thing but their words didn't strike a chord with me like these words do.

 

I still have issue with the second time where she clearly knew she was doing something wrong but after my display about the wedding I have to share some of that blame but so does she.

 

Thank you for opening my eyes.

 

You're welcome. Thank you for being open-minded enough to see the situation from another perspective That's admirable and respectable!

Edited June 3, 2015 by Methodical