WasOtherWoman Posted May 28, 2015 Posted May 28, 2015 The point of the original question though, what about MM/MW who are clearly and obviously lying about very big important things? Why do their APs believe them when to all those around them, the objective truth is obvious? The answer is that affairs produce changes in the brain similar to those found in people addicted to crack. Affairs make you crazy and you believe totally insane things that are told to you by your AP. It is sometimes called the "Affair fog." No amount of rational talk or presentation of facts can match the power of the affair fog. You know, I do believe the above, but I still think it is possible to be grounded in reality during an affair. I am an extremely logical person (part of my profession) and I approached my affair the same way. I never asked him if he had s*x with his wife.. I assumed he did, they're married. I never asked him questions about the state of his marriage, or about his wife. Because - frankly I assumed he would not tell me the truth. We did have a business relationship prior to beginning our affair and I found him to be extremely ethical in the company that he owned and extremely caring about his employees. So in general I found him to be a truthful person. Really, why ask such questions though? I believed what he told me because he did every single thing that he said he was going to do, offered a timeline, proof along the way. But, certain sort of things... why even ask? However, the affair fog was what allowed me to justify my own bad behavior, going against my own beliefs by engaging in an affair at all. 2
GoldieLox Posted May 28, 2015 Posted May 28, 2015 You know, I do believe the above, but I still think it is possible to be grounded in reality during an affair. I am an extremely logical person (part of my profession) and I approached my affair the same way. I never asked him if he had s*x with his wife.. I assumed he did, they're married. I never asked him questions about the state of his marriage, or about his wife. Because - frankly I assumed he would not tell me the truth. We did have a business relationship prior to beginning our affair and I found him to be extremely ethical in the company that he owned and extremely caring about his employees. So in general I found him to be a truthful person. Really, why ask such questions though? I believed what he told me because he did every single thing that he said he was going to do, offered a timeline, proof along the way. But, certain sort of things... why even ask? However, the affair fog was what allowed me to justify my own bad behavior, going against my own beliefs by engaging in an affair at all. The bolded part. I assumed the same things, and never asked the same questions for the same reasons. If you go into an affair with your eyes already wide open on certain things, I think you're less likely to have the "OMG you were sleeping with your wife the entire time!?" moment. WasOtherWoman, it sounds like you ended up with your AP. Did you? 1
Giggle Posted May 29, 2015 Posted May 29, 2015 I never asked him if he had s*x with his wife.. I assumed he did, they're married. I never asked him questions about the state of his marriage, or about his wife. Because - frankly I assumed he would not tell me the truth. We did have a business relationship prior to beginning our affair and I found him to be extremely ethical in the company that he owned and extremely caring about his employees. So in general I found him to be a truthful person. Really, why ask such questions though? Yeah, see, I never asked either and assumed. I guess he kinda assumed I was sleeping with other guys too. Several months in the dynamics changed. And while I take the denials with a grain of salt since he's obviously a good liar, we now tell each other when we do.
WasOtherWoman Posted May 29, 2015 Posted May 29, 2015 The bolded part. I assumed the same things, and never asked the same questions for the same reasons. If you go into an affair with your eyes already wide open on certain things, I think you're less likely to have the "OMG you were sleeping with your wife the entire time!?" moment. WasOtherWoman, it sounds like you ended up with your AP. Did you? Totally agree on the "OMG moments" not possible when you are grounded in reality. Yep, married nearly 15 years now.
minimariah Posted May 30, 2015 Posted May 30, 2015 Really, why ask such questions though? i was never an OW, but if i was to find myself in such position (& if i had feelings and serious plans with my lover) -- i would most definitely want to know WHY is my lover cheating & that includes asking about the state of his marriage. the reason is simple - i want to know my lover, his character & his relationship patterns. that being said, i'd have some major problems with someone who had no idea why they're cheating + can't point to one moment when the relationship went wrong. like, i need a dude who can recognize his bad decisions, what doesn't work for him and why did he decide to deal with the problems in an unhealthy way. i wouldn't ask this question DURING an A but if we ended up together in an open relationship? absolutely.
compulsivedancer Posted May 31, 2015 Posted May 31, 2015 Because the rules aren't always laid out like that. I lied to my husband. I didn't lie to my AP. This. My OM didn't tell me that things were bad in his relationship. In fact, he told me the opposite, despite years of evidence to the contrary (no fault of hers; I've always gotten the impression they have a relationship of convenience). As they were part of our friends group, I have heard this mused on by several friends, including my BS. I think perhaps he was lying to himself, or being charitable, but I don't think he was lying to me. In fact, he would get annoyed that I assumed things weren't wonderful between them. Basically, he would tell me not to judge his relationship. There were a few things that I think were truth from his perspective that I doubted, and things he left out, but I don't think he lied to me. This after a couple years of contemplation on the issue. And as Got It said, I was painfully honest with him. That's part of what hurt H so much. OM got to see a different side of me than H, and I told him things I didn't tell H. 1
compulsivedancer Posted May 31, 2015 Posted May 31, 2015 Yeah, see, I never asked either and assumed. I guess he kinda assumed I was sleeping with other guys too. Several months in the dynamics changed. And while I take the denials with a grain of salt since he's obviously a good liar, we now tell each other when we do. I knew he was sleeping with his SO and he knew I was sleeping with H. We went into it with our eyes open. We also didn't offer a lot of compliments or some of the other things mentioned because we were trying to keep it about sex and NOT turn into a relationship.
minimariah Posted May 31, 2015 Posted May 31, 2015 compulsivedancer - how did your A end? if you don't mind me asking.
WasOtherWoman Posted May 31, 2015 Posted May 31, 2015 i was never an OW, but if i was to find myself in such position (& if i had feelings and serious plans with my lover) -- i would most definitely want to know WHY is my lover cheating & that includes asking about the state of his marriage. the reason is simple - i want to know my lover, his character & his relationship patterns. that being said, i'd have some major problems with someone who had no idea why they're cheating + can't point to one moment when the relationship went wrong. like, i need a dude who can recognize his bad decisions, what doesn't work for him and why did he decide to deal with the problems in an unhealthy way. i wouldn't ask this question DURING an A but if we ended up together in an open relationship? absolutely. I think there is the concept of understanding WHY he was engaging in an affair with me and specifically what his intentions were, which IS a conversation we had. (Knowing of course that, at the end of the day, it is NEVER ok to be involved in an affair.... I think knowing why he chose this path was what helped me to delude myself into thinking it was ok, but that's a whole different story.) But questions regarding his s*x life with his wife, what he did while he was at home on the weekends etc..... nope, not interested in hearing any of that. 1
compulsivedancer Posted May 31, 2015 Posted May 31, 2015 compulsivedancer - how did your A end? if you don't mind me asking. Here is my story: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/marriage-life-partnerships/infidelity/404953-bs-wants-declare-war-ap Here is H's version of the story (although I disagree with a few of the details): http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/marriage-life-partnerships/infidelity/431323-i-am-cd-s-bs-my-story (There are several threads since then that elaborate). Long and short of it, my STBXH got suspicious and looked through my phone. A few months before, I had e-mailed myself a copy of some texts between me and OM. Our A was born out of open relationship discussions, so the agreements between me and OM may not be representative of most As, however. 1
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