Was it fair to break up after she lied about her extensive past?

May 20, 2015

Will all due respect, you are not in a position to decide whether or not a person's change of core value is legitimate or not (other than your own of course).

All I am saying is if an 18 year old that has spent the last 4 years screwing dozens of guys is telling me that she values relationships and believes that sexuality should be within the context of serious relationships, I am not going to give her much credibility or pay much credence to what she says.

On the other hand if years down the road from now if she has only been in one or two serious relationships and has been completely faithful and hasn't had any more ONSs or casual hook ups and has been good to her word, then I will accept what she says.

May 20, 2015

A little partying story. I was the best of behaved teenagers. I did not meet my husband and get married until mid twenties. Before marriage I lost my virginity to him. So much so that he was the only man I ever kissed. I never did drugs, got drunk, stole or smoked. I cheated on my husband. And continue to do so.

My past values mean nothing. Remind yourself of that.

You have no plans on stopping the cheating? It's better if you confess and let him have the option of whether he wants to continue the marriage or not.

Not to be blunt but why would I need therapy for knowing what my values are and what I want in a partner?

May 20, 2015

Everyone please understand, I am not suggesting that she should be hung by her toes and stoned. As far as I am concerned the only thing she has done wrong is outright lied to him and actively conspired to deceive him (and this is coming from a guy that strongly advises to never have the "numbers" talk so I am even giving a lot of leeway on that)

Given the particulars that are specific to this one case, I think the OP is well within his right to terminate the relationship and find someone more compatible due to her dishonesty and the importance that he place on sexual restraint.

Other than that, I am not saying she did anything wrong and I have been quite explicit to Blackeagle that he has the right to break up with her but does not have the right to treat her badly.

As far as I am concerned she is now a young adult that has had a steady, serious relationship for the past 4 years and nothing he has said has indicated that she mistreated him in any way or did anything unsavory during their relationship, other than hiding her past sexual history.

Assuming those things are true, as far as I am concerned she has walked the walk for the past 4 years and her teen behavior isn't really relevant going forward from this point. ......however it was relevant 4 years ago when they started dating and she was lying about it.

Her next dude probably won't give a rats ass either way and will be glad that the OP had his little hissy fit and walked away. His loss is her next guy's gain.

May 20, 2015

All I am saying is if an 18 year old that has spent the last 4 years screwing dozens of guys is telling me that she values relationships and believes that sexuality should be within the context of serious relationships, I am not going to give her much credibility or pay much credence to what she says.

On the other hand if years down the road from now if she has only been in one or two serious relationships and has been completely faithful and hasn't had any more ONSs or casual hook ups and has been good to her word, then I will accept what she says.

And how is she supposed to make it a few years down the road with one or two serious relationships if everyone thinks like you?

How does one build an "acceptable dating record" in a situation like this?

May 20, 2015

And how is she supposed to make it a few years down the road with one or two serious relationships if everyone thinks like you?

How does one build an "acceptable dating record" in a situation like this?

Read my last post. As far as I am concerned, she does have an acceptable dating record (your term, not mine)

And I think you are judging me a little harshly and inaccurately. I probably have one of the highest tolerances for past sexual behavior. I do not share Blackeagle's attitude and beliefs towards sexuality at all. I do not and have not ever held his convictions on virginity or low-count at all. I've dated and been fine with women that probably made his GF look like Mother Theresa.

All I have been saying throughout the thread is that based on his convictions and based on her behavior and her deception about it, he is well within his right to terminate their relationship.

I'm not saying that I would have done the same thing if I were in his shoes (actually I would if I found out that someone was working hard to pull the wool over of my eyes about something that was important to me. It's just that prior sex activities would not be the topic)

I've been saying that he has the right to break up with her, not that I would myself.

May 20, 2015

The way I see it, the OP's ex-girlfriend lied about something she knew was extremely important to the OP all along right from the very beginning. And when the OP found this out, he ended the relationship. That seems to me to be quite understandable on the part of the OP.

To those of you who are upset and feel that it is "unfair" or "judgmental" of the OP for ending the relationship with his girlfriend for the reasons he did, we have to remember that we all get to decide whether or not to date someone, by whatever things we feel are important to us. Even on things that others may feel are shallow or judgmental or even "none of anyone else's business". We have a right to date someone or not based on their looks, personality, height, "chemistry", and yes, sexual history (too much or too little). OP had every right to tell this girl when they started dating his feelings towards sex and to ask her what her take was, and expect either a straight answer, or "none of your business", in which case he could decide what to do with that.

Meanwhile, it's not like this young woman is condemned or anything. She is in her early 20's. She will likely have plenty of dating prospects moving forward. Plenty of guys won't care what she did when she was a teenager. It will be about who she is now.

However, I am wondering what kind of relationship OP and his girlfriend really had. I mean, back in their first year or two of the relationship, when the OP and the girl were "getting to know each other" (which usually means telling the other person about yourself, your experiences, and so on in the few years right before you met), what was this girl telling the OP? I can't imagine her not saying a lot of lies or omissions built on the one lie at the beginning of the relationship. You can't really connect with someone if you are keeping that big of a secret. How could ANYONE think OP and his girlfriend truly had a good relationship if even after 4 years, OP knew less about her than...a lot of people in her high school? Hell it wouldn't surprise me if a reason why the OP ended it is that he suddenly came to realize that he didn't know his girlfriend nearly as well as he thought.

OP, you did the right thing.

Edited May 20, 2015 by Imajerk17

May 20, 2015

The typical LoveShack BS, of "it's in the past...she was a different person"...

The point is the deception, which undermined the trust, which reflected on her "values" as a person, and therefore as fate would have it...you caught her in a very deep lie, expressing guilt...because she knew she was wrong, not because she "loved" you.

If people were so disconnected and felt the past had nothing to do with them now and had no bearing on their actions, personality or values today...then the truth is they wouldn't lie about them. Even if it meant judgment...and yet the comical thing here is, that people constantly promote this idea of complete and transparency while they are not willing to do so themselves or be selective about what one must be honest about...which of course is tailored to their own gain and benefit.

OP, when a person betrays you and undermines you in a way for 4 years, regardless of how long ago it happened...you cut them, and you cut them deep. Because these people need a hard lesson in what "truth" and honesty actually is...because I can bet your @ss she's going to demand "honesty" and qualities within a man herself in the future.

People will say "OMG that's not fair, so judgmental, so cruel"...look, don't let the hypocrites try to make this out to be a perfect world, the reality is people lie and manipulate to get what they want, their desire is that some things are worth lying about it, if that ultimately is for something "positive" and worth having..like let's say their "love"...their personal feelings and emotions override the input and emotions of the other person in the equation, essentially disrespecting that person by saying that they must be lied to in order for her/him to be "accepted for who they are today".

You don't know anyone anything in this world, and everyone is accountable for their own mistakes. Just because a girl banged 20 guys and smoked weed by 18 or whatever the case is, and feels bad, grew from it and yadda yadda is now a better person in her eyes...doesn't mean that somehow she "deserves" your love and can therefore lie to you and yet on the same hand be "accepted for her she is now", as some kind of twisted award for the adventure of "learning", a lesson you never had to learn yourself. A "value" and respect you had for something that meant something more to you.

Cut her loose, and let some other guy pick up the pieces and validate her trials in life....because I can assure you she will.

People will always try to chip away at your regard for things as they had bottom of the barrel "values" themselves, they deal with this internal conflict of being exactly what they hate and disrespect within themselves. They justify their behaviors with excuses of many kinds, in order to diminish the responsibility accountability one would have, by simply being honest. They in the end, forfeit the values they supposedly hold dear and cherish, supposedly...by feeling the need to lie to get what they want...and honestly that's how many people therefore operate in the world, therefore you cut them when they think they can use the same manipulative mindset on yourself.

ANYONE who lies deserves the consequences, we all know when we are doing wrong and often times deserve the judgment and criticism cast upon us. However, there are people who lie to muddy the waters of "truth" and distinguish what is a incredible lie and what is actually justified...they are biased, what is important is how you feel, nobody can justify your values away from how if it's how you feel and you live and stand up according to your own beliefs.

You're very young, she is very young...you both need to be apart and grow anyhow. You need to learn the dark side of many women, because you will honestly not know many of their secrets...they cower behind their behavior, justify their thoughts and behavior although they always knew they were wrong and they know that it is unfair or selfish...but I can assure you, when it is what they want on the line versus what is fair to you, they will choose themselves and then justify it by saying it will benefit you...because it's for "love", happiness, and a future that SHOULD also be what you want.

She is not the woman you thought her to be, should she be burned in fire for it? no, she had to go through what she had to go through as an individual, that is her life lesson and her path. But she didn't have the right to betray you, and nobody does for any reason they think is justifiable.

And this is coming from a cheater, which is kind of funny when a cheater has to tell the "better" people of the world, how to be responsible and accountable for their actions. It is far better to me to be honest about what I've done and be accountable for it, that's what to me is being a man...but for women, "don't judge me, I was just a poor victim and because I will be judged, I will lie to you".

Be careful as the world is full of BS and double-standards OP...the person you trust the most, will often be the person to cut you the deepest. And when you confront them with what they've done...you'll get all the justifications in the world, and that sword cuts both ways.

May 20, 2015

1. She lied, trust is broken. Integrity nonexistent.

2. The deception was about values/beliefs- they're not aligned and she knew it.

3. She is not who she pretended to be; deal breaker in fact and principle, then and now for OP.

4. She discussed it with others, she made him look like an ignorant schmuck.

5. OP is entitled to his beliefs and values; no obligation for him to change who he is to accommodate her past, her lies... and especially not other posters just because they have different values.

People end relationships every day for far less significant reasons. Women on LS are always talking about how important it is to be selective. They check criminal backgrounds, promiscuity/infidelity, credit reports, etc., based on the assumption that they are entitled to a guy with a spotless record. Well, so is he if that's what he wants. Sexual promiscuity doesn't entitle her to a pass on the promiscuity or the integrity aspects.

May 20, 2015

1. It's important for you to be with a relatively chaste woman. Nothing shameful about that. This is important to lots of men for various reasons.

2. It's important for you be with a woman you can trust. Completely respectable.

Glad you kicked her to the curb. The number may have been actually 40 for all you know now.

May 20, 2015

My past values mean nothing. Remind yourself of that.

People's past behaviors matter. Lots of people would not want to date convicted felons.

Either way he doesn't only have a problem with her past behavior. Her current behavior status is LYING about something she knows is hugely important to him.

May 20, 2015

Ok, you were seeing her for four months. That is awhile, but not that long if you weren't being alert and spending that time really getting to know someone.

If there is anything I've learned during my time on earth is that you can't control the actions of others. I'm sure you can find a way to forgive her for wanting to put her past behind her... but that doesn't mean you need to stay together. I'm with you on that.

Going forward, you really need to find a way to get to the bottom of things in a respectful way. Unless she is a sociopath (and I doubt that), people who are lying let go with all kinds of little 'tells'. I'm sorry to burst your bubble, or have you learn about this the hard way... but I have to believe that deep down you knew something was 'off', and there was a part of you that went along with it.

It shouldn't have taken 4 years to get to the bottom of this. Just my 0.02.

Yes, I know. If you are a trusting person, it is not fun to have to think like a liar. Still, this incident exposed your personal blind spot(s). You will need to do a better job sorting this kind of thing out in the future... and no, you don't need to be a jerk about it.

I have my ways... ways I've written about many times here on LS... to weed through the bold faced liars and the just the confused or well-intentioned (yet still incompatible). You can find ways too.

Here is a video that might help... Pay attention especially to her statement... that we get lied to partly because at some level, we want to be lied to... harsh lesson, but life is all about acknowledging your mistakes and part in things, and doing better in the future. Pamela Meyer: How to spot a liar | Talk Video | TED.com

May 20, 2015

1. It's important for you to be with a relatively chaste woman. Nothing shameful about that. This is important to lots of men for various reasons.

2. It's important for you be with a woman you can trust. Completely respectable.

Glad you kicked her to the curb. The number may have been actually 40 for all you know now.

It's important to lots of men who are hypocrites and have no good reason for pointing the finger at anyone.

I'd say most men I've come across who have that concern ARE, in fact, huge hypocrites. It's why I immediately dump any guy who tries to 'slut test' me. Those men are no prize. No double standards in my world.

As for the OP, I'm only defending him since he is only seeking someone who shares his values. Not some player douchebag who thinks he's entitled to whatever just because he happened to be born with an outty instead of an inny.

May 20, 2015

^ Agree. It's actually some of the support posts that are more alarming, not the OP really.

May 20, 2015

People have been dumped for less.

The ladies doth protest too much....

May 20, 2015

It seems like the OP has already made up his mind, no matter what any of us say. Not sure why he feels the need to be validated when he won't change his opinion anyway...

May 20, 2015

For me her being deceptive to him is enough reason to dump. But honestly, if a relationship has run it's course one doesn't need a valid reason to dump. My advice to him is to rethink is judgemental attitude. Not to take her back, her lying was harmful to the relationship, but for a chance at future relationship. I mean seriously, while I get the sexual past thing but I cannot imagine the sort of person who would have a problem with someone who used to smoke while a teenager.

May 20, 2015

People's past behaviors matter. Lots of people would not want to date convicted felons.

Either way he doesn't only have a problem with her past behavior. Her current behavior status is LYING about something she knows is hugely important to him.

If the OPs gf was reading this thread (and other similar ones) she will likely learn it was the lie that seems the bigger sin. Next time she wont be so careless with leaving written evidence around or be more diligent on passwords..OR...she wont lie and just refuse to discuss her past. "I've had my share of love & heartbreak", "Only insecure guys want to know that stuff"...etc. (which some will see though as a lie by omission)

Edited May 20, 2015 by ascendotum

May 21, 2015

... Next time she wont be so careless with leaving written evidence around...

Which just makes it worse. Her friend is complicit in her deceptions.

Who knows what else they are scheming on.

May 21, 2015

Which just makes it worse. Her friend is complicit in her deceptions.

Who knows what else they are scheming on.

meh, the email to her friend was a 'tell'. Her conscience was nagging her. Something was 'off' and the OP, um, happened to check her email.

The good news is that his ex isn't a sociopath. The bad news is that the OP maybe has conflict avoidance issues and needs to find a way to sort out someone's real values within the first 6 months or so.

It's ok. Very few people have those skills at a young age.

May 21, 2015

I wonder if the responses to this thread would be different if the poster were some poor young girl who gave away her virginity to a man who had banged tons of chicks and lied to her about it.

I think the deceit would be more forgivable had she confessed to the OP. But she never did. He found out by accident. A relationship needs honesty. This girl is clearly not capable of it; she tries too hard to be what her partner wants, instead of being herself and finding someone who accepts her for who she is. It's kind of sad, really. I think that taking her back at this point would be a big mistake as it would just teach her that she can get away with lying so long as she begs and pleads long enough to be taken back and forgiven. There's also a chance that she is lying about other things already. Hopefully in time you can forgive her, even if you don't want her back.

Edited May 21, 2015 by SpiralOut

May 21, 2015

I hope you're really good looking.

May 21, 2015

I'd say most men I've come across who have that concern ARE, in fact, huge hypocrites. It's why I immediately dump any guy who tries to 'slut test' me.

I almost spewed my all over the keyboard! Love your ability to see things from multiple perspectives.

May 21, 2015

Here is a video that might help... Pay attention especially to her statement... that we get lied to partly because at some level, we want to be lied to... harsh lesson, but life is all about acknowledging your mistakes and part in things, and doing better in the future. Pamela Meyer: How to spot a liar | Talk Video | TED.com

Thank you for the video. I must be awful in picking up lies and it makes me wonder how many signs there was that I must've missed all along. Definitely not a sociopath.

The hypocrites you're referring to are indeed losers. They deserve to be single.

As for forgiving well yes, I do find myself forgiving later on but will not get back with her.

SpiralOut, even she confessed it would still end up in a break-up but yes I suppose I might gone more softer instead of finding out myself because she was never going to tell me at all.

May 21, 2015

All,

The thing you need to insist on in a marriage and relationship is faithfulness, truthfulness and honesty. In this case, she knew that her past may be a deal breaker, so she lied. She did not give Blackeagledan the chance to "forgive" or accept her past. All I can state is what I think I would have done. If it was me, I may have accepted her past, knowing it is the future with her, I am interested in. I would have wanted to have a good idea of what went on, and a rule that she tell me if she meets or interacts with any of the guys she had slept with. People of faith know someone can repent and move on. It is part of the faith to accept this. But, you need to know what you are really "forgiving" and what you are really "accepting" not half truths. Forgiving a half truth is not fair to the one forgiving and is not true.

You see this is affairs all the time. If they would just come clean, and then let me make up my own mind, but spinning it and trickle truth-ing leads to a break up. It is always better to be up front and let the other know if you have a "colorful past". Things always come out. I think, in the end, if there is real love between you both, anything can be accepted or forgiven, as long as everything is made known. This is a real leap of faith, but is the only way to start a committed relationship.

As for those that say "it is none of their or anyone's business" Fine. Respect that, as long as that is your stance when the inevitable questions of your past come out. If I am in a relationship with you and that is what you told me up front, then you are being honorable. I would hope that you open up, if your past become a point of contention in your relationship, and you are up front on past loves and lovers if they try or are still in your life.

Truthful and honest marriages or relationships can stand the test of time. Because what ever happens, affairs, money issues, sexual problems, what fixes relationships, or dooms them from lack of, is open, truthful and honest communication between two people.

31513168

May 21, 2015

OP I see you're a new member and not familiar with the way this board works.

When guys voice their concerns and question why things are the way they are, they get a "that's what we want, deal with it" It goes something like this.

Why not date a guy under 6'? No, preference!

Someone without a degree? No preference!

Someone of a different socioeconomic background? No preference!

Someone of a different ethnicity? No preference!

Someone who isn't perfect? No preference!

It's what we want and you're not entitled to anything!

Then when a guy says.

Can I have someone who hasn't fu*ked a whole football?

They go off.

Double standard! Past is the past! It's none of your business!

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Was it fair to break up after she lied about her extensive past?

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