My 5 yr boyfriend's tactics to avoid difficult conversations re: our future

May 16, 2015

I have posted before about my boyfriend of nearly 5 years.

Very long story short, we lived together in my house in Upstate NY for a few years before I realized I had no future with him, and then I broke up with him and moved across the country alone after obtaining a job in my current location. He ended up following me here but only after I made him promise a few things would change. One of those things was that I didn't want to play house with him and if we weren't going to get engaged within a few months, I didn't want him to move here and live with me. He agreed. That was over a year ago now. I should add that I have an 11 year old son with high functioning autism (Aspergers) that my boyfriend has helped raise for the last 5 years and my son is VERY attached to him.

I am looking for help trying to understand this one thing in particular that happens when I bring up conversations about our future. My boyfriend will suddenly shut down completely when I bring up our future. He will suddenly tell me how tired he is, how he's sleeping, he'll ask me repeatedly what it is that I want even though I just told him what I want two minutes ago, etc. etc. etc.. It's like he does every single thing in the book he can to avoid the conversation. This just happened a few days ago and we have barely spoken to each other since. I am beyond hurt and angry. Now he's acting like everything is perfectly fine, being all jokey and stuff like that. I haven't even looked him in the eyes since this happened 3 days ago.

I totally get that my boyfriend must not want to get married. I'm sure if he did, we would have been engaged long ago and probably even married by now. My question really isn't WHY he's doing that, but why is he using that particular TACTIC (avoid, deflect, change the subject, etc..) to avoid the conversation.

It's just extremely frustrating that he does that. In all my dating experience (and I'm 32 now) I have never in my life had anyone else act that way towards me. It makes me angry in a way I can't even describe; I feel like it's so rude and disrespectful and I would never ever treat someone like this that I claimed to love. It's actually made me start to deeply resent and dislike him.

Can anyone (men?) give me any insights as to why he would use this particular tactic? I would respect him a LOT more if he would just sit me down and tell me he has no desire to marry me.

I will add this one last thing. I know we should break up; I know *I* should break up with him. I have tried to break up with him in the last few months and my son reacted horribly. He was extremely upset. I have vowed not to do anything at least for a few more years, so I'm stuck with this man. I feel trapped and I wish I never let him come down here to my new city. This situation has really taken a lot out of me mentally and emotionally.

He will never leave, I know this. He will just stay here as long as I let him. But I feel trapped because I need his help with my son (I have no one else here) and I need my son to be okay. My son would be devastated if he left.

Thanks...

Edited May 16, 2015 by kalika

May 16, 2015

In a nutshell?

He said what you wanted him to say, in order to regain a roof over his head, and a f**kbuddy.

he has absolutely no intention of following through and committing, because he doesn't want to, and plays the "Avoidance Game" to the extreme hilt, and evidently with great success.

Keeping him around simply because he's a help to you regarding your son, is deceitful and unfair.

he doesn't fulfil your life or ease your requirements, but he helps with your son.

I have several friends who either have Autistic children, or who are mildly autistic themselves.

THis absence of your so-called BF may be confusing to his routine, but you can't wrap him in cotton wool and prevent people coming and going in his life.

Seek assistance from local services. Investigate online, precisely what kind of support you can get for your son's condition, through local organisations and National associations.

But your reasoning for kicking this guy out, are totally sound.

Your excuse for keeping him close, is unreasonable.

May 16, 2015

Keeping him around simply because he's a help to you regarding your son, is deceitful and unfair.
he doesn't fulfil your life or ease your requirements, but he helps with your son.

Seek assistance from local services. Investigate online, precisely what kind of support you can get for your son's condition, through local organisations and National associations.

No, it's not selfish, it's called reality. I have absolutely no one here in my new city. Not one person other than him that I can depend on. I also make way too much to qualify for any type of social services. On top of that, I work full time and spend nearly 3 hours a day just commuting to work and back. This isn't a matter of MY convenience, it's also my son's safety at stake, since I have no choice but to work full time. Five days a week, I am not home for 12 hours every day. I am out the door by 7am and don't get home until around 7pm. I am not home to put my son on the bus, and I'm not home to get him off the bus.

He makes sure my son gets on the bus in the mornings and takes him to school for early morning activities. He is also there in the evenings when I get stuck in traffic because his schedule is much more flexible (he owns his own business). I need to know my son is safe above and beyond anything else that may or may not be going on in my life.

I guess if I'm also being deceitful and unfair, then we should be a match made in heaven.

Edited May 16, 2015 by kalika

May 16, 2015

It's tough, and I do understand that it's the crap-end of the deal, but options DO exist.

In which case:

Break up.

Tell him he is now no longer your BF, but instead has the status of tenant and helper.

He can pay a nominal rent, but as he helps you with your son, the sum should be low. (food and amenities still need paying for...)

Quit being his GF and make him equally responsible for the running and maintenance of the house and looking after your son.

Don't sleep with him any more, and if possible set up a spare room for him.

And let him date, and you do likewise.

Look, as above, there are options and solutions to your problem, but they all involve doing things you may not entirely like or want to do.

The question is, have you got the courage to put them into action?

Because he WON'T change.

There's no need or impetus for him to do so, and you can't force him to...

May 16, 2015

Tara -

The last 3 nights he has slept in the spare bedroom and we haven't really spoken. I don't have anything to say to him. I know this is over, at least for me, whether he officially moves out or not. I am not sure how to date other people when I still live with him. (Who would be my babysitter while I was out on a date? Him?! LOL!!)

I'm not really looking to date anyone either.. I have had men express interest in sleeping with me but they don't want anything serious and there's certainly no one I'm interested in right now.

He does pay half of all the household expenses.

I don't know how else to say this but I'm not going to be hanging out with him at the house, and I will try to remain cold. It is difficult because he is my best friend and I do love him but he has hurt me way too much and I don't even know that I'm "in love" with him any more because of this.

Either way.. My original question really isn't what to do (trust me, I know it's over and that our relationship is crap) but I really just want to understand why he is choosing that particular method to communicate it. Why is he changing the subject, suddenly claiming to be too sleepy to talk, etc... Why not just come clean? I'm trying to figure out what type of person would use that conflict avoidance method (avoid, change the subject, turning it around on me, etc..)

Right now I feel like his are the actions of someone who's just pathologically selfish. It's like .. because it's not important to HIM, he doesn't understand why it would be important to ME.. and I can't fathom telling someone Yes, this is how it will be.. and then when they look for me to fulfill my end of the bargain, I suddenly just change the subject.

I can't even explain that well how this makes me feel. I feel worthless, stupid, unworthy.. I feel like he's a selfish bastard and I wish I had seen this earlier..

Edited May 16, 2015 by kalika

May 16, 2015

I think you may be right.

And obviously Effective Communication is not his strong point.

He's hoping you'll read his mind and dump him.

THis is 'dumping by proxy'.

Really, he's 'done'. But he wants you to do the 'donkey-work'.

Which is, exactly as you put it, not only pathologically selfish but emotionally immature; stunted, even.

He may be wonderful material for helping you out with your son, but as a partner, sadly, he stinks.

You couldn't possibly think of dating as things currently stand, of course you couldn't.

But if you were to just lay your cards on the table and tell him, however sad it makes you, that you 'understand this is over, but let's be adult and reasonable about this'... in time, you'll both feel sufficiently independent to consider looking outside of the box and dating again.

I'm sorry you find yourself in this crappy situation, I genuinely am. I feel for you and can't imagine being in the same 'boat'.

So I'm sorry if I appeared blunt and unsympathetic.

But in a way, I was trying to make you sufficiently angry with the situation to determine definite action....

I wish you well, whatever you do.

Whatever you do, sadly the onus will be on you, and it won't be easy.....

May 16, 2015

Sorry...

You edited while I was composing my response...

yes, that's what I mean about 'dumping by proxy', he's sitting back and letting you be the eventual 'bad guy'.

And it's working.

He's playing on your emotions and to be frank, you already have a child who is a challenge, dealing with two of them is unfair and a hell of a strain on you.

So, really, 'Pathologically Selfish' doesn't even begin to cover it....

May 16, 2015

Can anyone (men?) give me any insights as to why he would use this particular tactic? I would respect him a LOT more if he would just sit me down and tell me he has no desire to marry me.

There's a few possibilities as to why your boyfriend ignores your pleas to talk about the future. He's confused about what he wants from the relationship. Maybe he sees you more as a roommate with benefits. Who knows. Or, he's just not a good boyfriend.

He could be ignoring you because he doesn't care enough not to; he won't open up to you because he doesn't want to. Or, he needs "emotional" space from you or the whole relationship and doesn't know how to tell you.

I also know that men shut down when they are hurt or angry about something. Sure he is joking and acting like nothing's wrong, but that's part of the passive-aggressive push-pull method to avoid talking to you about what he is really feeling, whatever that could be.

I will add this one last thing. I know we should break up; I know *I* should break up with him. I have tried to break up with him in the last few months and my son reacted horribly. He was extremely upset. I have vowed not to do anything at least for a few more years, so I'm stuck with this man. I feel trapped and I wish I never let him come down here to my new city. This situation has really taken a lot out of me mentally and emotionally.

The first thing you need to investigate is resources for your son. Is he in a special ed program at his school? Does he have a special ed para who helps him in his classes? Does he see a therapist or any kind of specialists? Does your son have any support at all for his Asperger Syndrome? Does he have any friends at all?

The reason I ask, is because it's not safe for your son to have no support system outside of you (his mother) and your live-in boyfriend.

Because if your son has friends, this would be the time for you to encourage him to spend time with his friends. Arrange to have your son go play at multiple friends' homes regularly so that you and your boyfriend can either attend counseling after work-hours or during work-hours, to discuss your communication breakdown. And then afterward, pick up your son from his friend's home, and do that routine until you and your boyfriend can come to an agreement about the future of your relationship.

Because what you're doing now isn't working...for anyone.

He will never leave, I know this. He will just stay here as long as I let him. But I feel trapped because I need his help with my son (I have no one else here) and I need my son to be okay. My son would be devastated if he left.

I think you need to give your boyfriend an ultimatum: he attends counseling with you for a few sessions, and if he refuses, he has x-amount of days to move out. Then you explain to your son that his friend (your boyfriend) is moving out, but will still be a solid presence in your son's life so that he doesn't have to worry.

I know that routine consistency is extremely important to an autistic child/person's emotional stability and feeling of safety. But life happens. As your son's mother, you need to find resources (in the form of friends or local community and county resources related to autistic support) to help your son transition to the likelihood that your boyfriend will not live with you and your son for much longer.

You need help with your son, so go out and find help. I really don't understand why you haven't sought state funded help for your son if he as Asperger's Syndrome a mild form of autism. Your son needs support and so do you. And it won't cost you a dime, because many autistic programs are covered by insurance.

If you don't do something, then your situation will never change. Inaction is worse than action.

May 16, 2015

I totally get that my boyfriend must not want to get married. I'm sure if he did, we would have been engaged long ago and probably even married by now. My question really isn't WHY he's doing that, but why is he using that particular TACTIC (avoid, deflect, change the subject, etc..) to avoid the conversation.

It's just extremely frustrating that he does that.

..

OK lets have a little reality check here. That's like saying you are extremely frustrated with a bankrobber holder up a bank with Colt revolver and asking why he would use a Colt revolver to rob a bank. Would you rather he uses a Smith and Wesson semi-auto??????

The key take away here is that he is robbing a bank via armed robbery, the tool for which he does it is irrelevant.

May 16, 2015

Thank you Tara and Writergal for your responses.

Tara - That's what is confusing me.. I agree ordinarily, I would think he was "dumping by proxy".. but he doesn't otherwise act at all like he wants to break up. He's loving, affectionate.. It's just like, he's perfectly happy how things are. But I'm not. And it feels like he doesn't care. I agree re: "pathologically selfish" doesn't begin to cover it..

Writergal - You did hit the nail on the head with something when you said we need support. I have work friends here but everyone lives far away and I don't have anyone close by to where I live (it's a big city). My nearest friend is 30 minutes away and I barely see her as it is. Yes my son does have some support (he has an IEP at school and gets services through the school) but he really doesn't have any friends here either. He never goes to anyone's house to play.

It's not Asperger's support I'm lacking.. It's really the practical day to day support; I need someone to help me take care of him and make sure he gets on the bus in the mornings, make sure he's safe coming home from school etc.. If my boyfriend moved out, finances would be MUCH tighter and I wouldn't be able to afford a regular babysitter or anything like that. Plus my experiences with sitters are that they're expensive and generally unreliable.

I do get what you're saying though. I do wish I knew more people close by - neighbors or something.. but I don't. I know I shouldn't be my son's only support, but realistically, right now it's just me and my boyfriend.

May 16, 2015

Sorry I forgot to add.. We did go to counseling but (shocking!!) it was me that initiated everything.. Unfortunately the counselor we went to just wasn't very good. We only went to 4 sessions together. It wasn't helping at all. Ultimately it was still just me making all the effort.

OK lets have a little reality check here. That's like saying you are extremely frustrated with a bankrobber holder up a bank with Colt revolver and asking why he would use a Colt revolver to rob a bank. Would you rather he uses a Smith and Wesson semi-auto??????

I know. This is really really stupid, I know. For some reason I just feel like maybe if I understood why, it would help me get over it and move on faster. I can't even explain it. Right now I almost feel like I'm in limbo with no closure or something.

May 16, 2015

Kalika, I like Oldshirt's response.

How he does it is irrelevant.

The fact he's doing it - and succeeding - is the problem.

Everyone has their methods of avoidance.

I'm reminded of the saying:

"He who cares the least, controls the most."

I've rarely come across a situation where the saying is so true, appropriate and fitting.

May 16, 2015

Wow Tara.. That's a good quote. And very fitting.

Ugh..

I get what y'all are saying.. I don't know what to do. Honestly if it were just ME alone I would have left him for good a few years ago. I know this in my heart. He's not making me happy. He's wasting my time.

But I truly feel that breaking up with him would be EXTREMELY - not just a little bit, but EXTREMELY detrimental to my son's emotional health - and it may also force me into a situation of relying on complete strangers who also know that I'm not hardly ever around and who could possibly hurt my child.

I don't know what to do. I'm so torn over this.

May 16, 2015

Sorry I forgot to add.. We did go to counseling but (shocking!!) it was me that initiated everything.. Unfortunately the counselor we went to just wasn't very good. We only went to 4 sessions together. It wasn't helping at all. Ultimately it was still just me making all the effort.

I know. This is really really stupid, I know. For some reason I just feel like maybe if I understood why, it would help me get over it and move on faster. I can't even explain it. Right now I almost feel like I'm in limbo with no closure or something.

Aaah. The old 'closure' trap.

How many times has it been said?

When the "Dumper" gives no Closure, the only palce to find it is within yourself.

It's impossible to climb into his head, and discern why exactly he's following this MO.

in fact, were you to ask him, he would probably struggle to find a comprehensible reason.

The fact is, schyte as it may be - it's happening.

A saying in Buddhism is that, if a man gets hit by an arrow, he does not pause to admire the carefully crafted shaft, the fine working of the perfect feathers, the straightness of its form, and the perfect sharp working of the arrow-head.

he just yanks the damn thing out, because it hurts.

May 16, 2015

I probably put this in my prior posts but .. the other thing is .. my son's dad left him here. When I applied for this job he encouraged me to do so, saying that he would move with us, telling everyone left and right - including our son - that he would be there for him.

Six weeks(!!) after moving here, he decides he hates everything about it and then he left and moved back across the country. My son was obviously very upset.

I even told my son at that point that if he wanted to move back to our old city, I would move. I didn't anticipate his dad would just up and leave us like that. But my son has told me repeatedly that he really loves it here and doesn't want to move, even though his dad moved back.

This all happened last November, 2014. His dad left right after Halloween.

So that's just one more thing making me not want to destabilize my son's life right now..

May 16, 2015

.

I will add this one last thing. I know we should break up; I know *I* should break up with him. I have tried to break up with him in the last few months and my son reacted horribly. He was extremely upset. I have vowed not to do anything at least for a few more years, so I'm stuck with this man. I feel trapped and I wish I never let him come down here to my new city. This situation has really taken a lot out of me mentally and emotionally.

He will never leave, I know this. He will just stay here as long as I let him. But I feel trapped because I need his help with my son (I have no one else here) and I need my son to be okay. My son would be devastated if he left.

Thanks...

You are simply going to have to make a difficult choice.

If having a guy around who helps take of your son for a while is your end-goal, then you are doing a good job.

If your goal is ultimately to find a man who commits to being in your lives permanently and getting married etc, then you need to terminate the romantic/sexual component of this relationship and quit pushing him for a commitment and get back on the dating market and find another guy.

It's that simple. Simplicity doesn't mean painless or seamless, but it is that simple.

You can still keep this guy around as a friend and companion and as someone in your son's life as long as he is not a molester or anything, but terminate the romantic/sexual aspect of your relationship and stop being exclusive to him and start openly dating others.

He has clearly shown his cards in that marriage/commitment to you are not in his plans so you are not obligated in any way to be exclusive on to him or be involved in a romantic/sexual nature with him.

May 16, 2015

Wow Tara.. That's a good quote. And very fitting.

Ugh..

I get what y'all are saying.. I don't know what to do. Honestly if it were just ME alone I would have left him for good a few years ago. I know this in my heart. He's not making me happy. He's wasting my time.

But I truly feel that breaking up with him would be EXTREMELY - not just a little bit, but EXTREMELY detrimental to my son's emotional health - and it may also force me into a situation of relying on complete strangers who also know that I'm not hardly ever around and who could possibly hurt my child.

I don't know what to do. I'm so torn over this.

I hate to be Captain Obvious, but why don't you just put it to him and see what he says?

For example:

"This isn't working.

We need to break up, as far as being a couple is concerned.

But I know you care deeply about my son, and he cares a great deal about you.

And he and I have come to depend on you for help and I'd be lost without it.

So what shall we do now?"

May 16, 2015

A saying in Buddhism is that, if a man gets hit by an arrow, he does not pause to admire the carefully crafted shaft, the fine working of the perfect feathers, the straightness of its form, and the perfect sharp working of the arrow-head.

he just yanks the damn thing out, because it hurts.

I know..

I was hoping that when my son was a little older (14? 15?? 16???) maybe he would be older/more teenagerish and wouldn't care that much if my boyfriend and I broke up.. maybe this is stupid and naive on my part.. but the other thing is, when he's older he should be more self sufficient and we would also not need my boyfriend for basic things like CHILDCARE..

May 16, 2015

Funnily enough, I tried to edit, to add this to my previous post:

Edit to add:

Your son is not going to be this age for ever.

Things move on.

Look at the bigger picture, ok?

May 16, 2015

I hate to be Captain Obvious, but why don't you just put it to him and see what he says?

For example:
"This isn't working.
We need to break up, as far as being a couple is concerned.
But I know you care deeply about my son, and he cares a great deal about you.
And he and I have come to depend on you for help and I'd be lost without it.

So what shall we do now?"

I'm part of this problem Tara. I have broken up with him - or stated that I wanted to - many times before. I find that only BIG GESTURES (like me finally leaving him and moving across the state alone) seem to get any kind of emotion out of him. When I'm REALLY about to leave, he starts showing up to bring me back.

Last time we talked about us breaking up he acted like he couldn't care less about the actual breakup; all he kept harping on was that he needs enough time to find a place big enough to move his stuff and his work trucks to, and that I wasn't going to be kicking him out in 2 weeks.

I think if I gave him a formal eviction notice from an attorney, that might knock him into gear/possibly also make him realize what he's about to lose, but I really don't want to start that process unless I know that I have support lined up to help me with my kiddo in the aftermath.

May 16, 2015

You are simply going to have to make a difficult choice.

If having a guy around who helps take of your son for a while is your end-goal, then you are doing a good job.

If your goal is ultimately to find a man who commits to being in your lives permanently and getting married etc, then you need to terminate the romantic/sexual component of this relationship and quit pushing him for a commitment and get back on the dating market and find another guy.

It's that simple. Simplicity doesn't mean painless or seamless, but it is that simple.

You can still keep this guy around as a friend and companion and as someone in your son's life as long as he is not a molester or anything, but terminate the romantic/sexual aspect of your relationship and stop being exclusive to him and start openly dating others.

He has clearly shown his cards in that marriage/commitment to you are not in his plans so you are not obligated in any way to be exclusive on to him or be involved in a romantic/sexual nature with him.

I think right now, my biggest goal and priority is to just make sure my son is well taken care of, at least until he gets old enough to be a little more independent, even if that means tolerating my boyfriend for a few more years. Even if we break up, my goal isn't to get married or anything. I honestly have zero interest in dating anyone else right now.

May 16, 2015

On some level though, I really don't want him to feel like he's "getting away with it".

May 16, 2015

I think if I gave him a formal eviction notice from an attorney, that might knock him into gear/possibly also make him realize what he's about to lose, but I really don't want to start that process unless I know that I have support lined up to help me with my kiddo in the aftermath.

Sounds like you have a good plan of action. Just a quick question, can't you adjust your work schedule so that you can see your son get on the bus, and be there for him when he gets home? Can you ask your boss if you can do that?

May 16, 2015

(Reply to post #22):

Well, that can be gone into at some point during the discussion, but right now, on a practical level, you need his physical presence more than his emotional absence.

In time, over time, you can let him know he's been underhand, unfair and you feel taken advantage of.

But right now, be straight with him with regards to things, as they stand, NOW.

May 16, 2015

Sounds like you have a good plan of action. Just a quick question, can't you adjust your work schedule so that you can see your son get on the bus, and be there for him when he gets home? Can you ask your boss if you can do that?

Writergal,

No unfortunately I am not really able to change my schedule as it's pretty strict. I have almost zero flexibility at work with regards to my schedule.

My only choice would be to try to find another job but I'm sure I wouldn't make the kind of money that I do now.

Well, that can be gone into at some point during the discussion, but right now, on a practical level, you need his physical presence more than his emotional absence.

In time, over time, you can let him know he's been underhand, unfair and you feel taken advantage of.

But right now, be straight with him with regards to things, as they stand, NOW.

I definitely will let him know where we stand. I know he's well aware of how I feel about him right now. He just doesn't care.

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My 5 yr boyfriend's tactics to avoid difficult conversations re: our future

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