The doctorate syndrome

[Mirages]

So I live near a city with a university, common, I know. The OLD realm here contains a lot fo 27-37 women who are either in grad school obtaining a doctorate, or have obtained one. Half of these are also ones who seem to be opinionated, and in some cases use verbiage in the profile to suggest intelligence. So I am not insecure about my brain, I can play in that court, but in many cases prefer not to. I do find the very large proportion (45%) of doctorate 27-37 women when compared to Masters and below. Sorry but this isn't normal at all, this is a new one for me...

 

Any experiences to share about the ones I describe? Are they pretentious, cannot be satisfied, need to travel to exotic places, or just normal and kind? While I don't expect the discussion to fall into a detailed review, a few experiences can prepare me for what these are about. Do they have a strong profile, but tone it down and enjoy life once things settle, or should I lose such hope and seek those who are not full of themselves.

 

In contrast, I support personal development and am attracted to intelligence, but relationally for me, I do not enjoy the company of those who view their career as an identity, and intellect as a sharpened sword, understandable I'm sure.

[anna121]

I think I disagree with what I sense is the underlying premise of your question - that just because one is pursuing a doctorate they are...pretentious. As opposed to "normal and kind".

 

But, yes, someone doing a dissertation is likely to be serious about their career . That doesn't mean they can't appreciate other qualities in the people they date, though.

[xxoo]

I know many kind, loving women (and men) with doctorate degrees, or the equivalent (medical degrees, etc). You're going to have to look deeper and get to know individuals within the group.

[Mirages]

OK, I hear you. I pair the "Pretentious," with the Dr. because of other statements in their profiles, not by assumption. My personal time around Dr.'ed males/females at work in a non dating environment in this city also gives me a similar feeling. We all have a different level called normal, mine has included some charity work, some mentoring of troubled kids, etc. I am trying to see if these types of women are similar to me (but putting an intense profile up perhaps to reduce messaging, etc.), or if they are indeed significantly different.

 

There are a few who are Dr.'ed and show a bit of a heart as well in their profile, a few...

[LookAtThisPOst]

I take it they don't do chain restaurants either? lol j/k...well...kinda.

 

 

Are they pretentious, cannot be satisfied, need to travel to exotic places, or just normal and kind?

[johndoe2]

I am getting my doctorate. We PhDs most certainly are not pretentious in the least. We're just better than everyone else.

 

In all seriousness, it depends on what the doctorate is in. Philosophy? I wouldn't be surprised if a little pretentious. Particle physics or Slavic languages? Probably no more than the usual person. What are they going to do, talk about bosons all the time or speak Ukrainian and expect people to understand them? It's harder to be pretentious in some subjects than others.

[MissBee]

So I live near a city with a university, common, I know. The OLD realm here contains a lot fo 27-37 women who are either in grad school obtaining a doctorate, or have obtained one. Half of these are also ones who seem to be opinionated, and in some cases use verbiage in the profile to suggest intelligence. So I am not insecure about my brain, I can play in that court, but in many cases prefer not to. I do find the very large proportion (45%) of doctorate 27-37 women when compared to Masters and below. Sorry but this isn't normal at all, this is a new one for me...

 

Any experiences to share about the ones I describe? Are they pretentious, cannot be satisfied, need to travel to exotic places, or just normal and kind? While I don't expect the discussion to fall into a detailed review, a few experiences can prepare me for what these are about. Do they have a strong profile, but tone it down and enjoy life once things settle, or should I lose such hope and seek those who are not full of themselves.

 

In contrast, I support personal development and am attracted to intelligence, but relationally for me, I do not enjoy the company of those who view their career as an identity, and intellect as a sharpened sword, understandable I'm sure.

 

Your views are pretty myopic.

 

That getting a doctorate means you are not kind or normal and must be pretentious and self-absorbed only exhibits your own biases.

 

I live in such an area and am also one of these women getting a doctorate and that said most of my friends are also women like that and we range the gamut, we are kind, funny, like normal things, but we're also educated, opinionated and becoming experts in a particular field and it's funny how if a man is doing that no one thinks a thing about it, and think it's fabulous but if it's a woman her character is immediately questioned and denigrated smh. Again, this is your own bias. Opinionated, self-absorbed people come in all shapes and sizes and education levels and it reflects a strange sexist and anti-intellectual stance when a woman with a lot of education is IMMEDIATELY read as threatening or a possibly unpleasant person versus the reality that people come in all types. Check your own biases.

 

This is one example of why, in other threads when people ask about dating someone with the same level of education as you, some people prefer to as at least the person will treat them normally, respect them, value what they do, have similar experiences and will be on the same page and not automatically assume they are an alien species who isn't normal and must be pretentious.

 

That said, I've never dated another doctoral student but certainly find that if a man automatically presumes negative things about me because I'm getting a doctorate he's 99% unlikely to be any kind of match for me. Whereas men I do end up dating instead of assuming I must be awful find it interesting, are curious about what I do, and that's a selling point for them and these types of men are likely to be a much better match than the suspicious ones who need to gather a poll about them educated wimmenz and how they really are.

 

I do like travel though for leisure (your definition of exotic and mind may differ) and I also have to travel for my research...if a dude isn't down with that, no harm, no foul, he doesn't have to date me and we won't be a good match. But lots of women without doctorates also like traveling or need to for work. This isn't reserved for just those getting a doctorate. Chalk it up to who you are, your life experience, values, etc. and find women whose values, interests and goals match your own.

[Satu]

Just filter out the ones who begin emails or letters with the word, 'So.'

 

If you do that, you should be alright.

[johndoe2]

Just filter out the ones who begin emails or letters with the word, 'So.'

 

If you do that, you should be alright.

 

Hey! I do that regularly. 'So' is my favorite conjunction!

[Satu]

Hey! I do that regularly. 'So' is my favorite conjunction!

 

Ok so thats fine

 

I'm joking - I still don't know how to use commas...

[carhill]

Ironically, I guess, the lady who I found to be the most gentle and feminine of all the women I dated, including my exW, was also the most educated, being a M.D. and working as an emergency doc. However, she did rule her kitchen with an iron fist so she did have sides! I didn't get any airs of pretentious behavior from her at all. However, she was older, had two daughters and a granddaughter so perhaps age and life experience put things into perspective for her.

 

In any event, in my generation and demographic, I can't say I've run into the doctorate syndrome in any substantive way. Then again, I haven't dated any cosmologists or theoretical physicists or similar. Most have been regular folks, the doc notwithstanding. What I liked about her in that realm was she didn't bring her work home and when we were out and about she never brought it up at all, like 'talking shop'. We simply enjoyed our time together. Ha, and she could kiss in a manner which could make a man forget all about details like degrees and jobs.

[Mirages]

Well the intent was not to ruffle feathers, but rather to gain a little wisdom. So I move to a different region, and notice a change of pace in OLD, rather strong one. We are speaking of the following lines becoming cliche in OLD:

 

1> "I am here for a year, but will move within a year to an unknown place because of my position"

2> Long references to their position and career, less about their person or heart.

3> List of books recently read is a huge # (I really read stuff myself, sorry you aren't working if you read 1000 pages a day...)

4> Strong opinion statements, presented with a disqualifier tone.

5> "I am intelligent..."

6> "I've run a marathon in 15 states, trying for all 50"

7> Anti-religious sentence in their profile with passion.

 

So it is really about the profile text, yes I read those (don't just look at the pictures), and I conclude that this city has plenty attractive ladies, but many frustrate me because I am a different blend. Let us speak about me: intellectual but casual career, actively serves homeless/crisis/troubled folks on my own, turned off by pontification for any cause (I rather run my hands than my mouth), very fit, has a religious bearing based on education and study, not fanaticism or emotion. Finally I can travel 2x a year, but lists of pleasure trips in your OLD profile will not happen so easily; I'd rather console a lonely dying elderly person than pleasure myself on the coasts of Africa.

 

Perhaps some can see the plight; I seek the humility and predictability of a humble woman, and the brains and intrigue of these Dr's, what I find are few that present themselves this way. I apologize, perhaps I should have titled it "The pretentious syndrome." It is also likely that all the Dr classification is not even true, I know the world does not have a mass of Dr. level people like OLD shows.

[Satu]

Well the intent was not to ruffle feathers, but rather to gain a little wisdom. So I move to a different region, and notice a change of pace in OLD, rather strong one. We are speaking of the following lines becoming cliche in OLD:

 

1> "I am here for a year, but will move within a year to an unknown place because of my position"

2> Long references to their position and career, less about their person or heart.

3> List of books recently read is a huge # (I really read stuff myself, sorry you aren't working if you read 1000 pages a day...)

4> Strong opinion statements, presented with a disqualifier tone.

5> "I am intelligent..."

6> "I've run a marathon in 15 states, trying for all 50"

7> Anti-religious sentence in their profile with passion.

 

So it is really about the profile text, yes I read those (don't just look at the pictures), and I conclude that this city has plenty attractive ladies, but many frustrate me because I am a different blend. Let us speak about me: intellectual but casual career, actively serves homeless/crisis/troubled folks on my own, turned off by pontification for any cause (I rather run my hands than my mouth), very fit, has a religious bearing based on education and study, not fanaticism or emotion. Finally I can travel 2x a year, but lists of pleasure trips in your OLD profile will not happen so easily; I'd rather console a lonely dying elderly person than pleasure myself on the coasts of Africa.

 

Perhaps some can see the plight; I seek the humility and predictability of a humble woman, and the brains and intrigue of these Dr's, what I find are few that present themselves this way. I apologize, perhaps I should have titled it "The pretentious syndrome." It is also likely that all the Dr classification is not even true, I know the world does not have a mass of Dr. level people like OLD shows.

 

Overthinking.

[johndoe2]

Ok so thats fine

 

I'm joking - I still don't know how to use commas...

 

Semicolons are better anyway; you don't even have to know when you're supposed to use them; no one does; but people think you're smarter if you do;

;;;

[LookAtThisPOst]

You do paint a rather good representative picture of some of the women's profiles I come across....though not with the same quantity that you've come across.

 

In my area, I get the occasional attractive "professional" woman, and they write in a dialogue that's "prose-like" in nature as if they are attempting to write an old literary works that some of us recall having read in AP English in High School,lol.

 

A couple of women I know of who have been on POF as permanent fixtures for years...and likely we know the reason why.

 

Some of their profile are more "fluff" pieces when they talk about running marathons in 50 states...she's only doing it to make her look better on paper. Who knows if that'll even happen.

 

Most notably, the profiles appear rigid in nature and you get the opposite of the warm fuzzies when you read it and you question whether there is even a hint of "softness" or femininity with these women.

 

Chances are if you marry them, you get the feel that it may wind up being a cold marriage or a marriage of convenience.

 

Well the intent was not to ruffle feathers, but rather to gain a little wisdom. So I move to a different region, and notice a change of pace in OLD, rather strong one. We are speaking of the following lines becoming cliche in OLD:

 

1> "I am here for a year, but will move within a year to an unknown place because of my position"

2> Long references to their position and career, less about their person or heart.

3> List of books recently read is a huge # (I really read stuff myself, sorry you aren't working if you read 1000 pages a day...)

4> Strong opinion statements, presented with a disqualifier tone.

5> "I am intelligent..."

6> "I've run a marathon in 15 states, trying for all 50"

7> Anti-religious sentence in their profile with passion.

 

So it is really about the profile text, yes I read those (don't just look at the pictures), and I conclude that this city has plenty attractive ladies, but many frustrate me because I am a different blend. Let us speak about me: intellectual but casual career, actively serves homeless/crisis/troubled folks on my own, turned off by pontification for any cause (I rather run my hands than my mouth), very fit, has a religious bearing based on education and study, not fanaticism or emotion. Finally I can travel 2x a year, but lists of pleasure trips in your OLD profile will not happen so easily; I'd rather console a lonely dying elderly person than pleasure myself on the coasts of Africa.

 

Perhaps some can see the plight; I seek the humility and predictability of a humble woman, and the brains and intrigue of these Dr's, what I find are few that present themselves this way. I apologize, perhaps I should have titled it "The pretentious syndrome." It is also likely that all the Dr classification is not even true, I know the world does not have a mass of Dr. level people like OLD shows.

 

I seek the humility and predictability of a humble woman

 

Bingo! Yep, a rare find!

[guest569]

... but relationally for me, I do not enjoy the company of those who view their career as an identity, and intellect as a sharpened sword, understandable I'm sure.

 

Oh, I hear you on that! There's more to life than a job, and whilst I admire those who have a passion and pride in what they do.. yeah. I've been there.

 

People can be pretentious regardless of what they do or how many or few years they spent studying. Get to know these people and see for yourself. I think it will shine through on the first date if they are pompous, pretentious or arrogant! Unless they are good at false modesty.

[JuneJulySeptember]

People really don't care about academic accomplishments unless they translate into monetary and tangible success.

 

And the chances that a pHd will turn into that are tenuous at best.

 

So, a person who has a tenure track position at a Top tier university might be able to brag with some swag.

 

A person with a pHd who was sitting in a cubicle next to a person with just a BS doing the same work bragging about it would be pretty much laughed at.

 

And yes, I have that at my work. A pHd sitting next to a BS. Not the bragging part.

[salparadise]

we range the gamut, we are kind, funny, like normal things, but we're also educated, opinionated and becoming experts in a particular field and it's funny how if a man is doing that no one thinks a thing about it, and think it's fabulous but if it's a woman her character is immediately questioned and denigrated smh. [...]

 

I do like travel though for leisure (your definition of exotic and mind may differ) and I also have to travel for my research...if a dude isn't down with that, no harm, no foul, he doesn't have to date me and we won't be a good match. But lots of women without doctorates also like traveling or need to for work.

 

I live in a small town with a big university, and have gone out with women with doctorates, heads of departments, and one [very] high income earning woman. My belief is that you just can't generalize much, if at all. Sure there are nuances of attitude and confidence that smart, educated people usually have in common, but the underlying personalities are as divergent as with savvy but lesser educated categories.

 

The more true self-confidence and awareness a person has, the less they need to use their accomplishments as a sharpened sword. You run into both types (and shades between) in a university town, so you need to read the clues and stay away from the ones whose identities, presumed status, and self-worth are based on their CV. In my experience, those are a small minority anyway.

 

My perception is that money is probably more an issue than education. There seems to be something either culturally or genetically programed (or both) in women that make them less willing/able to accept income disparity if they are the higher earners. Let's say for example that a woman is either a high or moderately high earner and wants to travel. Acceptable scenarios are a) each pays their own way, or b) the man pays. Scenario c) simply doesn't exist.

 

So when I hear women saying things like "funny how if a man is doing that" and using that as evidence that gender bias exists in one direction and not the other, I just think that's kinda funny too.

[johndoe2]

People really don't care about academic accomplishments unless they translate into monetary and tangible success.

 

And the chances that a pHd will turn into that are tenuous at best.

 

So, a person who has a tenure track position at a Top tier university might be able to brag with some swag.

 

A person with a pHd who was sitting in a cubicle next to a person with just a BS doing the same work bragging about it would be pretty much laughed at.

 

And yes, I have that at my work. A pHd sitting next to a BS. Not the bragging part.

Well most people don't go to get PhDs for the money. Usually they go in spite of the fact that they could earn just as much or more with an MS. People are not purely motivated by financial motives after all.

[MissBee]

Well most people don't go to get PhDs for the money. Usually they go in spite of the fact that they could earn just as much or more with an MS. People are not purely motivated by financial motives after all.

 

Ditto.

 

Same with sal's response, money has little to do with it, as while one may eventually earn a lot of money, there are copious amounts of other professions that don't require PhDs where you earn A LOT more. No person who knows anything about academia or the PhD process would go into it because they are motivated by the dollar, as while it is possible to eventually become a high earner, it's not a sure-fire way to it like some other career options where you don't need that. So money isn't usually the deciding motivation and compatibility is usually based on sharing certain values and interest not sharing similar income brackets.

 

I don't care how much money a man makes, if he doesn't have certain values, if he for example is anti-intellectual, assumes educated women will be awful people, is blissfully or arrogantly ignorant about various social, political, cultural, economic issues, hates traveling, is just happy to live in a small bubble and work 9-5, doesn't like to think much beyond what's absolutely required, isn't curious about the world, has no broader ambitions, that's not the guy for me even if he earns millions of dollars. I would never be stimulated or happy in that kind of relationship.

 

I think what a lot of women (and men) who are in PhD programs have in common is that they do have this desire to know, to learn, to research, to understand and to stretch themselves beyond their bubble and think about doing things that could possibly benefit the world outside themselves in some way and that lends itself to more willingness to expose yourself to different cultures, people, ways of knowing, which includes travel, reading a lot, doing a lot of different things. I think it's a lifestyle. Of course some people are just looking for someone to match their degree or whatever status they think they have, but many are simply looking for someone who matches them on an intellectual and emotional level who can enjoy some of the same stuff they do, and that person doesn't have to also have a graduate degree. Like I said, I've never seriously dated another PhD student, but the men I date seriously have those types of qualities I listed regardless of degree or income and that's what's important to me.

Edited May 15, 2015 by MissBee

[Els]

I'm not really sure what the point of the question is, to be honest - you're clearly not compatible with these ladies and nothing anyone says about their own experience or opinion is going to change that. And frankly we'd do no one any favours by trying to convince you to date them... you should continue to search for women whom you are compatible with, while these ladies should continue to date men whom they are compatible with.

 

I mean, I could elaborate all I want on why I think your preconceived notions are largely false, but that isn't going to serve any purpose. You like who you like. So by all means hold out for a humble woman who doesn't like to travel and is religious. They're not all that uncommon - have you considered meeting people IRL instead of on OLD, or looking in nearby cities as well?

[guest569]

What is it called, reverse snobbery?

[johndoe2]

What is it called, reverse snobbery?

 

Populism? Or maybe philistinism, but that would be ironic since only snobs call people philistines.

[GoodOnPaper]

I have a science Ph.D. and am a professor in academia and I'd agree with those posting that like other women, those who are highly educated will have their own individual attractive and unattractive qualities that will vary from person to person. However, attempting to generalize my experience, here is what I would offer:

 

I always struggled to attract women but my senior year in college, I managed to actually feel like a normal human being when it came to women and dating. I was very much looking forward to grad school, figuring that finding someone to really connect with wouldn't be that difficult. I couldn't be more wrong. The social environment was much much closer to high school than I ever imagined it would be.

 

It seemed that the women in my program were all very intent on pursuing opposites-attract type relationships. I guess since they already had the brains, intellectual stimulation was secondary. They looked for other qualities and other types/styles of intelligence. Of course many had boyfriends/fiances/husbands -- none were on the academic track themselves. I remember one was an Air Force pilot, a couple others did blue collar things, etc. Until recently, all of this really confused me but I think this was the common factor:

 

The women wanted to feel like the "smart one" in the couple and at the same time have a partner with a very strong personality.

 

In this context, the profile you mention makes perfect sense to me.

 

1> "I am here for a year, but will move within a year to an unknown place because of my position"

2> Long references to their position and career, less about their person or heart.

3> List of books recently read is a huge # (I really read stuff myself, sorry you aren't working if you read 1000 pages a day...)

4> Strong opinion statements, presented with a disqualifier tone.

5> "I am intelligent..."

6> "I've run a marathon in 15 states, trying for all 50"

7> Anti-religious sentence in their profile with passion.

 

Anyone even a little familiar with graduate-level academia will instantly see that #1 means that the woman is either finishing up her last year in grad school, is a post-doc researcher (these contracts are usually one year, or less, at a time), or in a temporary or visiting faculty position (again, these contracts are usually one year). So it's important to get that information out there.

 

The other points all scream that she wants a man with a strong personality. If the tone seems pretentious, that's probably a sign that she also feels more comfortable being the "smart one", at least in an academic/intellectual sense, in the couple.

[salparadise]

The women wanted to feel like the "smart one" in the couple and at the same time have a partner with a very strong personality.

 

Good observations. I just love smart women- probably need to start attending sapiophile anonymous meetings. But here's the deal... she has to be humble too in order for there to be potential. Smart with insecurities, arrested development or emotional immaturity can make for an awfully difficult relationship. Don't ask me how I know.

 

Unfortunately, needing to feel like the smarter one in the couple might be an indicator. People who are really smart and secure tend not to lead with it (need always be right) and how smart they actually are is often highlighted by what is left unsaid, and a demonstrated ability to keep the ego in its place.

 

So the point I'm making is watch out for the combination of high IQ with low EQ because it can be downright painful.