he said he's not sure if he ever wants to remarry (after 5 months)

[candie13]

I did read your thread. The difference between you and I is if a man told me:

 

He Said if he had no other Choice and if he had to do u'r, he would.

 

I would take it as a no he doesn't want to get married but he would do it under extreme circumstances like an unwanted pregnancy. Which is still a no, he doesn't want to get married. I am sorry you are going through this, 5 months is a considerable amount of time to invest in someone. When we are in love we see and hear what we want to see and hear so I can't really blame you. I've been there as well.

 

absolutely not - I would never ever use a pregnancy to get a ring on my finger. And he would be extatic to get me pregnant first - and I can assure you he would NOT pop the questions after that.

 

None of us are keen on emotional blackmails or cheap ultimatums. If I absolutely wanted to be married, the 7 years ex showed me the ring in an attempt to stop me from leaving him. I don't want a ring. I don't want to be married. I want the partner to want to marry me, which is fundamentally different, because it is his desire, not me enforcing my will onto him.

[katiegrl]

absolutely not - I would never ever use a pregnancy to get a ring on my finger. And he would be extatic to get me pregnant first - and I can assure you he would NOT pop the questions after that.

 

None of us are keen on emotional blackmails or cheap ultimatums. If I absolutely wanted to be married, the 7 years ex showed me the ring in an attempt to stop me from leaving him. I don't want a ring. I don't want to be married. I want the partner to want to marry me, which is fundamentally different, because it is his desire, not me enforcing my will onto him.

 

Just so I am clear...you associate a man *wanting* to marry you as *confirmation* of his love?

 

Because as I said, some men (people) love their partners DEEPLY but still have no desire to be married.

 

Marriage and love are not mutually exclusive.

 

Couples can love deeply and fully *without* marriage.

 

And couples often marry for reasons that have nothing to do with love, or even commitment.

 

You DO realize this don't you? That true commitment comes from within one's heart...and not from a piece of paper?

[Gaeta]

absolutely not - I would never ever use a pregnancy to get a ring on my finger. And he would be extatic to get me pregnant first - and I can assure you he would NOT pop the questions after that.

 

None of us are keen on emotional blackmails or cheap ultimatums. If I absolutely wanted to be married, the 7 years ex showed me the ring in an attempt to stop me from leaving him. I don't want a ring. I don't want to be married. I want the partner to want to marry me, which is fundamentally different, because it is his desire, not me enforcing my will onto him.

 

You completely misunderstood my post. I never said you would do such a thing. I was only giving an example of what he may have meant when he said he would marry if he MUST but not otherwise.

[cessna]

absolutely not - I would never ever use a pregnancy to get a ring on my finger. And he would be extatic to get me pregnant first - and I can assure you he would NOT pop the questions after that.

 

None of us are keen on emotional blackmails or cheap ultimatums. If I absolutely wanted to be married, the 7 years ex showed me the ring in an attempt to stop me from leaving him. I don't want a ring. I don't want to be married. I want the partner to want to marry me, which is fundamentally different, because it is his desire, not me enforcing my will onto him.

 

So you're more bothered by a man wanting to marry you than the act of marriage itself?

 

I just don't get it. What difference does it really, honestly make? If he loves you he loves you. Isn't that enough?

 

It sounds like you're seeking some sort of validation by wanting a man to want to marry you.

[candie13]

Sounds like this guy dodged a bullet. Christ... You've been dating for five months girl! Get a gri. You even admitted it will be hard because he was such a great guy. So why are you throwing all that away? Would you rather be married to someone who was okay just so you could be married? Or would you not rather stay together, unmarried, to the one you really love?

 

This all seems a bit silly and childish to me, like you're having some sort of hissy fit because you didn't like what you heard.

 

if your role here is to make cruel statements, you've succeeded fully.

 

this topic is very important and close to my heart. Yes, I made a huge hissy fit, because I bloody 34, almost 35 and I wasted 5 months of ovulation on his sorry arse. Plus the emotional involvement.

 

To me, marriage is about showing commitment and respect, not just for me, as a person, but towards my parents who worked very hard to raise me up well, made sure I am educated, with a sane set of values. MArriage to me is higher than the couple, it's about honouring my family, my background, it's cultural, it's beyond me and him. It includes my identity, things higher than just the couple. God. My family. His family. My church. His temples. My culture. His beliefs. It's rich and complex.

 

Of course I made a hissy fit and I am angry as hell because I feel deceited. The way I have interpreted his statement "I'll get married in an Orthodox church only if I absolutely have to" as - only if it's really important to my partner. That is the case. Marriage is important to me. And until last night, I thought I was done with the weeding, dating, and keeping my eyes on other potential partners, because I thought I had found one who was sharing my value system, which is what he led me to believe.

 

Please, show some respect and consideration towards my grief. I do feel like whipping his back for every tear I dropped.

 

I have met a lot of men willing to stay with me without getting married, including my ex, 7 years ago. I was madly inlove with him, we had a great thing going, his family loved me. I didn't leave him and everything we build together, when I was 30 to accept the exact scenario 5 years later. That's settling.

[katiegrl]

if your role here is to make cruel statements, you've succeeded fully.

 

this topic is very important and close to my heart. Yes, I made a huge hissy fit, because I bloody 34, almost 35 and I wasted 5 months of ovulation on his sorry arse. Plus the emotional involvement.

 

To me, marriage is about showing commitment and respect, not just for me, as a person, but towards my parents who worked very hard to raise me up well, made sure I am educated, with a sane set of values. MArriage to me is higher than the couple, it's about honouring my family, my background, it's cultural, it's beyond me and him. It includes my identity, things higher than just the couple. God. My family. His family. My church. His temples. My culture. His beliefs. It's rich and complex.

 

Of course I made a hissy fit and I am angry as hell because I feel deceited. The way I have interpreted his statement "I'll get married in an Orthodox church only if I absolutely have to" as - only if it's really important to my partner. That is the case. Marriage is important to me. And until last night, I thought I was done with the weeding, dating, and keeping my eyes on other potential partners, because I thought I had found one who was sharing my value system, which is what he led me to believe.

 

Please, show some respect and consideration towards my grief. I do feel like whipping his back for every tear I dropped.

 

I have met a lot of men willing to stay with me without getting married, including my ex, 7 years ago. I was madly inlove with him, we had a great thing going, his family loved me. I didn't leave him and everything we build together, when I was 30 to accept the exact scenario 5 years later. That's settling.

 

Wow.....

 

 

.....................

[candie13]

Just so I am clear...you associate a man *wanting* to marry you as *confirmation* of his love?

 

Because as I said, some men (people) love their partners DEEPLY but still have no desire to be married.

 

Marriage and love are not mutually exclusive.

 

Couples can love deeply and fully *without* marriage.

 

And couples often marry for reasons that have nothing to do with love, or even commitment.

 

You DO realize this don't you? That true commitment comes from within one's heart...and not from a piece of paper?

 

Lol, I've heard that sooooo many times before. I also know that many times, men fall deeply inlove with many women, but only ask ONE to marry them.

 

I understand and accept that people have their own way of manifesting their love. I understand and respect free unions. I totally understand that no piece of paper will change a thing.

 

But not doing it, to me, it's a sign that you don't really believe it. Marriage secures - in the eyes of the law and society - a certain security to those people involved and to their children. Financial security. Legal security.

 

Having children implies a lot, not just a lot of love, but a lot of commitment and a lot of money. The system in Switzerland protects the family, and quite correctly so. Lots of love never paid for diapers or international language school. Money does. If a man is serious about a women, that he takes these commitments seriously and signs up for them. It's upfront, no scheming.

 

No marriage, no children. At least not with me. I've invested too much in my education, in myself, I have too much self respect to spew bastards.

[cessna]

if your role here is to make cruel statements, you've succeeded fully.

 

this topic is very important and close to my heart. Yes, I made a huge hissy fit, because I bloody 34, almost 35 and I wasted 5 months of ovulation on his sorry arse. Plus the emotional involvement.

 

To me, marriage is about showing commitment and respect, not just for me, as a person, but towards my parents who worked very hard to raise me up well, made sure I am educated, with a sane set of values. MArriage to me is higher than the couple, it's about honouring my family, my background, it's cultural, it's beyond me and him. It includes my identity, things higher than just the couple. God. My family. His family. My church. His temples. My culture. His beliefs. It's rich and complex.

 

Of course I made a hissy fit and I am angry as hell because I feel deceited. The way I have interpreted his statement "I'll get married in an Orthodox church only if I absolutely have to" as - only if it's really important to my partner. That is the case. Marriage is important to me. And until last night, I thought I was done with the weeding, dating, and keeping my eyes on other potential partners, because I thought I had found one who was sharing my value system, which is what he led me to believe.

 

Please, show some respect and consideration towards my grief. I do feel like whipping his back for every tear I dropped.

 

I have met a lot of men willing to stay with me without getting married, including my ex, 7 years ago. I was madly inlove with him, we had a great thing going, his family loved me. I didn't leave him and everything we build together, when I was 30 to accept the exact scenario 5 years later. That's settling.

 

My role isn't to make cruel statements it's to be honest with my opinions.

 

If you're going to come on a public forum asking for peoples opinions that's exactly what you're going to get. I make no apologises for that.

 

Why were you with your ex for seven years if marriage was so important? You were madly in love with one another and you binned it off for reasons I still don't fully understand.

 

The aggression you show towards your most recent ex of five months is worrying too.

[Gaeta]

No marriage, no children. At least not with me. I've invested too much in my education, in myself, I have too much self respect to spew bastards.

 

Wow, I have just felt off my chair in disbelieves.

[candie13]

So you're more bothered by a man wanting to marry you than the act of marriage itself?

 

I just don't get it. What difference does it really, honestly make? If he loves you he loves you. Isn't that enough?

 

It sounds like you're seeking some sort of validation by wanting a man to want to marry you.

 

Sort of. Yes, of course. It is about validation, amongst many others, It's about the social status, about becoming formally, in the eyes of the law, part of their family, it becomes part of your identity.

 

It's also about the protection that the law offers the woman and the child - at least in Switzerland. It's a number of things that blend together.

 

I dunno, I have a lot of divorced friends and I am most certainly idealizing it, but... it's something I would like to experience before having children.

 

I'm not saying there is no chance in hell I have kids in any other circumstance. Lord knows that if I have a ONS and get knocked up, I'm keeping the child. Because as much as I believe in marriage, I hate abortion more. I'm not afraid of being a single mom, if I get into that sort of accident.

 

But that is NOT a situation that I would actively chose. Never.

[candie13]

My role isn't to make cruel statements it's to be honest with my opinions.

 

If you're going to come on a public forum asking for peoples opinions that's exactly what you're going to get. I make no apologises for that.

 

Why were you with your ex for seven years if marriage was so important? You were madly in love with one another and you binned it off for reasons I still don't fully understand.

 

The aggression you show towards your most recent ex of five months is worrying too.

 

It's not aggression, it's pain. I'm biting my hands as we speak. I can't explain it, i just really believe in it and thought - really genuinely thought it was for real. Not the usual girlfriend routine.

 

It's hard to let go of my dream. It took me 5 years to meet a guy like him. And he is better than my ex of 7 years too. just not good enough to want to marry me.

 

And now, I'm down in the gutter, up to trying ol' OLD and sh*t again. Brilliant. It's not even about having to start all over again, it's about the disappointment. having your hopes up, living the dream and... actually, no, wait, there's one little misunderstanding here. And then when you dig deeper... actually, turns out the guy isn't even that involved, because he does the same trick with all of the gfs - the parents, apartment, trip abroad routine. Joke. A big fat joke.

 

well, we live and we learn.

[candie13]

For some people social status and pressure is a top priority. One day she'll get married, it'll end in a divorce a few years later and she'll see that it pretty much means nothing in terms of commitment.

 

this is called self fulfilling prophecy. If you believe that is what will happen, that is what will happen.

 

You know what? People still get married, despite these gloomy prediction. Everyday. Everywhere. I remind you that the divorce rate is at it's highest low nowadays...

 

beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.

[candie13]

Wow, I have just felt off my chair in disbelieves.

 

pull up a chair and have a glass of fresh water, it usually passes in a few minutes.

 

That is my own hell, Gaeta, that is how I would feel and think about myself. That is why I cannot do it. It's not that I don't want to. It's just something that I will never actively choose - having children before being married.

[Trishern]

I completely share your point of view. We don't live together, thanks Lord - I hate all the "living together" part before things are clear. If the milk's for free, who'd buy the cow?

 

I don't plan on letting myself get manipulated. I've deleted his number, deleted him and his friends from fb, and deleted the stuff we've shared on the phone. Told him I'll keep in touch with a common friend for all the stuff he has at my place - I have at his. The less I hear from him, the better I feel and the more progress I'll make.

 

at least, this time, it's clear. I know all the whys and the hows (all those that count). I have my closure. We've had a reasonably healthy relationship, it'll be ok to let go.

 

 

 

Smart move Candie. He better look for women with a similar view, who don't want marriage, but do want kids. That would suit him best. Even asides from my religion, it was not my desire to have a child out of wedlock. Everyone is entitled to their views and to find a compatible partner.

 

 

If I'm good enough to have a child with, then I'm god enough to marry, otherwise it bye bye from me.

 

 

Imagine if you lived with a guy for years, had kids shared the house etc. You stay at home with the kids and sacrifice your career progression because of that, then one day he decides he wants out. You have no financial security and its often the man that wants the woman to stay at home with the kids.

 

 

You can find a suitable and and he can find a suitable woman, no harm done.

 

 

You did the right thing by ditching him.

 

 

Mrs. Trishern

[katiegrl]

Lol, I've heard that sooooo many times before. I also know that many times, men fall deeply inlove with many women, but only ask ONE to marry them.

 

I understand and accept that people have their own way of manifesting their love. I understand and respect free unions. I totally understand that no piece of paper will change a thing.

 

But not doing it, to me, it's a sign that you don't really believe it. Marriage secures - in the eyes of the law and society - a certain security to those people involved and to their children. Financial security. Legal security.

 

Having children implies a lot, not just a lot of love, but a lot of commitment and a lot of money. The system in Switzerland protects the family, and quite correctly so. Lots of love never paid for diapers or international language school. Money does. If a man is serious about a women, that he takes these commitments seriously and signs up for them. It's upfront, no scheming.

 

**No marriage, no childrenAt least not with me. I've invested too much in my education, in myself, I have too much self respect to spew bastards.**

 

Your poor choice of words (spew bastards) notwithstanding... I understand...and if my bf and I wanted kids, we would get married. But we don't so for US there is no point, we don't need it.

 

To each his own.

 

However, that said, I understand you feel hurt and deceived ...but the way you are responding to all this is very immature and frankly over the top. With that attitude, you might find yourself still single at 40 or maybe even 50.

 

It didn't work out, move on gracefully. Wish him well and be thankful for the experience. Lesson learned for next time. Get rid of the bitterness and continue your search. Stay positive.

[Gaeta]

 

 

Imagine if you lived with a guy for years, had kids shared the house etc. You stay at home with the kids and sacrifice your career progression because of that, then one day he decides he wants out. You have no financial security and its often the man that wants the woman to stay at home with the kids.

 

 

 

Marriage is a contract, there is nothing keeping common-law couples to have the same contract, they just need to head to a notary instead of a church.

 

I have no intention of getting remarried but if I move in with a man we will go to the notary have a clear agreement written between us concerning a separation or a death.

 

I bet you I will be more protected than a married couple.

[cessna]

Smart move Candie. He better look for women with a similar view, who don't want marriage, but do want kids. That would suit him best. Even asides from my religion, it was not my desire to have a child out of wedlock. Everyone is entitled to their views and to find a compatible partner.

 

 

If I'm good enough to have a child with, then I'm god enough to marry, otherwise it bye bye from me.

 

 

Imagine if you lived with a guy for years, had kids shared the house etc. You stay at home with the kids and sacrifice your career progression because of that, then one day he decides he wants out. You have no financial security and its often the man that wants the woman to stay at home with the kids.

 

 

You can find a suitable and and he can find a suitable woman, no harm done.

 

 

You did the right thing by ditching him.

 

 

Mrs. Trishern

 

I really can't agree with this notion. If you, as a woman, decide to have kids that's a decision you and your partner share equally. If you choose to sacrifice your career to look after the kids that's on you and that's your decision I think if a couple get a divorce no money should go either way at all. My dad had to pay for his ex wife until the day she died so she could sit at home and enjoy the money that he worked hard for. Seems fair doesn't it...

[candie13]

It's not a matter of being 'jaded' at all. Again, what is the point of getting married here? The fact that having it on paper means so much to you in itself seems like cause for suspicion. Why should he have to put himself on the line for your relationship to exist?

 

And things change. Suppose you have kids and start working less; then he has to make up the difference and start working more, and you become more financially dependent on him, setting the stage for everything he'd worked for getting taken out from under him yet again should the relationship degenerate. There are custody issues to. A prenup, I would say, is a given, but even those aren't air tight.

 

One may say 'if you loves me, you will be willing to put everything on the line me.' But then I would be inclined to say 'if you loved me, you wouldn't be asking me to.'

 

See, I'm the more ambitious of the two. Chances are I will never work less, but more. It's about trust in the other person. I don't want to get married to work less, I want to get married to build together, to get more out of it.

 

What if I have kids without being married and he bumps into a prettier, younger blonde and leaves? You have any idea how expensive school is in Switzerland? I want to make sure that my children have access to the best education ever, access to the best chances to make out there, more than I ever did. What if he suddenly decides to become a monk and stop working and dedicate himself to his spiritual life?

 

Marriage makes sure that half of his assets go to the children, if he wants out of the marriage for x or y reasons. Kids are expensive. Marriage protects them.

 

I'm an overachiever. I don't need a man to pay for me, for my rent or for my shoes. And you bet I won't need that when I'm married either.

 

Just like he doesn't want to be taken to the cleaner's if he gets married, I don't want to end up raising his children by myself, if I'm not married. And marriage makes sure that if that happens, the children will be in a more secure financial situation. A man who gets married acknowledges that he is taking his role of a father more seriously - exposing himself financially to the risks of a divorce. Because it's fair for the children, not for the wife who wants to spend that cash in shoes and bags.

 

It all depends on what sort of partner one picks.

[candie13]

Marriage is a contract, there is nothing keeping common-law couples to have the same contract, they just need to head to a notary instead of a church.

 

I have no intention of getting remarried but if I move in with a man we will go to the notary have a clear agreement written between us concerning a separation or a death.

 

I bet you I will be more protected than a married couple.

 

it's exactly what I seek from marriage. Protection. on top of love and affection.

 

It doesn't matter how you call it. Marriage, certified agreement, bullocks.

 

When two people decide to have children they should think of the children FIRST. IMHO, marriage offers the best protection to children, or more protection compared to no contractual agreement at all.

 

Because when one of the partners leaves (man or woman), the one who stays with the kids get hits with the costs. That ain't fair. On top of the lack of status and living with the betrayed trust.

[MissBee]

hi, guys

 

just wanted to pass something by you: I've been seeing a guy for the past 5 months. More seriously 4. He introduced me to his dad and his step brothers. We planned for hols together. We planned to go meet my folks next week.

 

We were discussing about our exes last night when the discussion totally lost control. I used to date a guy for 7 years - LDR - and I was telling my bf how I left my ex as he didn't make any decision to ask me to get engaged or move to my city or even to my country. he would have liked to have a kid or two first, which is against how I see life

 

this is where my bf reacted. Mind you, I am 34, he is 38 (divorced). He tells me he is not sure he wants to get married again. and if he does, it will be in mid/ long term. But he does want children in the short term.

 

I'm like... excuse me? I'm good enough for you to live with me and to bare your children, but not good enough for you to marry me?

 

he said he didn't know. He didn't know if he ever wanted to marry.

 

now, I don't want him to want to marry me after 5 months, but marriage is important to me. He said that getting married didn't bring him much, only a lot of hassle (he got quite traumatised by it). he is sort of convinced, deep down inside, that no relationship will ever last... it becomes more and more apparent to me.

 

don't get me wrong, he is a wonderful partner. Supportive, understanding, gives me space... just not very passionate, quite rational.

 

how does this sound to you? IS marriage a dealbreaker to you or not? Discuss

 

You're 34, he's a man, he can father kids into his 50s and be fine, you can't, do its definitely more pressing for you. If you want kids but he doesn't want that until way into the future, which is his right, you guys just aren't at similar life stages. It would be a deal breaker for me.

 

It's very early in so it's good you've found out now and can make an informed decision about your future. It would be a deal breaker for me personally. I'm not having your kids unless I'm your wife, that's my preference and I prefer men who feel the same.

[Rejected Rosebud]

I could not disagree more. If those are the rules women play by, then they'd better change them.

 

The guy put is hand in the fireplace once, and got burned. Now the OP is asking him to do it again. He doesn't want to; in other words, he's rational.

That's fine, that's up to him, but if the lady wants to get married and he is against it she is right to move on and find a guy with common values to hers right?? And he just needs a woman who never wants to get married. Simple!

[candie13]

Your poor choice of words (spew bastards) notwithstanding... I understand...and if my bf and I wanted kids, we would get married. But we don't so for US there is no point, we don't need it.

 

To each his own.

 

However, that said, I understand you feel hurt and deceived ...but the way you are responding to all this is very immature and frankly over the top. With that attitude, you might find yourself still single at 40 or maybe even 50.

 

It didn't work out, move on gracefully. Wish him well and be thankful for the experience. Lesson learned for next time. Get rid of the bitterness and continue your search. Stay positive.

 

 

^bloody hell, katie, it happened f*cking yesteday ! Like yesterday! I have the F*cking flight tickets to go home to my folks in front of my eyes. Two days ago, I was going with my bf in South of France for holidays. Cancelled all that sh*t. Cut me some slack, will ya

 

right now, if you happen to be peeing standing, you're on my black list. Today, at least... I look really well with my black dress, suit and puffy red eyes behind my glasses. I'm a hit, I tell you, a big hit !

[Trishern]

But why is there negativity surrounding children born out of wedlock? It makes absolutely no difference. None. Zero.

 

Maybe it's a cultural thing, I'm not sure where you are from but I can imagine the views in deeply religious, conservative America differ from my views and the views of many here in England where religion is, thankfully, not as popular.

 

Having kids out of marriage is acceptable to many, but it should not be forced on people if they don't want it for themselves.

 

 

Why should you compromise your principles for anyone.

 

 

Even in England people most women, I think most would still rather be married before they have kids. It's really a case of each to their own.

 

 

I knew someone who had been with her partner for 12 years and they had 3 kids. I once mentioned a friend that got married after dating for 16 years, and she said, so there's still hope for me. I felt so sorry for her.

 

 

Marriage is NOT just a piece of paper and that is commonly said by people who don't want to get married IMO.

 

 

At the end of a day we all have a choice of what we want and if a man (or woman) isn't willing to get married and you want to get married, then you end the relationship and moved on.

 

 

Mrs. Trishern

[candie13]

You're 34, he's a man, he can father kids into his 50s and be fine, you can't, do its definitely more pressing for you. If you want kids but he doesn't want that until way into the future, which is his right, you guys just aren't at similar life stages. It would be a deal breaker for me.

 

It's very early in so it's good you've found out now and can make an informed decision about your future. It would be a deal breaker for me personally. I'm not having your kids unless I'm your wife, that's my preference and I prefer men who feel the same.

 

I agree, very well put, thank you, MissBee.

[Trishern]

I was merely pointing out that most people think 'out of wedlock' they probably think 'one parent, knocked up before reaching anything resembling maturity.' Historically, that was the connotation, because historically, everyone else was married. That's where the taboo comes from, imo.

 

I agree with your statement.