he said he's not sure if he ever wants to remarry (after 5 months)

[candie13]

I completely share your point of view. We don't live together, thanks Lord - I hate all the "living together" part before things are clear. If the milk's for free, who'd buy the cow?

 

I don't plan on letting myself get manipulated. I've deleted his number, deleted him and his friends from fb, and deleted the stuff we've shared on the phone. Told him I'll keep in touch with a common friend for all the stuff he has at my place - I have at his. The less I hear from him, the better I feel and the more progress I'll make.

 

at least, this time, it's clear. I know all the whys and the hows (all those that count). I have my closure. We've had a reasonably healthy relationship, it'll be ok to let go.

[johndoe2]

Listen, marriage is a normal part of relationships. If he wants it, he has to put a ring on it.

 

You you want to play with women, you'd better know the rules.

 

I could not disagree more. If those are the rules women play by, then they'd better change them.

 

The guy put is hand in the fireplace once, and got burned. Now the OP is asking him to do it again. He doesn't want to; in other words, he's rational. Frankly, until divorce court and family court are significantly reformed in this country (and outdated things like alimony are left in the past), a guy is perfectly justified in not wanting to get legally married.

 

I would take the exact opposite position in fact: anyone who feels they need a piece of paper from the government to validate their relationship is the one who has their priorities seriously messed up.

[candie13]

I understand, and from his experience, it seems he completely shares your pov. He is jaded. He should hang out with jaded Women and have a jaded life.

 

Thing is, that woman who's asking him to put his hand in the Fire is me. I am 4 years younger than him and make just as much money as he Deos. His ex wife was not working. She had phobias and difficulties leaving the house. I went abroad 4 times these past 5 months alone.

 

There are prenupts, there are ways to find a middle ground. If there's a will, there's a way.

 

Silence speaks louder than words.

[johndoe2]

I understand, and from his experience, it seems he completely shares your pov. He is jaded. He should hang out with jaded Women and have a jaded life.

 

Thing is, that woman who's asking him to put his hand in the Fire is me. I am 4 years younger than him and make just as much money as he Deos. His ex wife was not working. She had phobias and difficulties leaving the house. I went abroad 4 times these past 5 months alone.

 

There are prenupts, there are ways to find a middle ground. If there's a will, there's a way.

 

Silence speaks louder than words.

 

It's not a matter of being 'jaded' at all. Again, what is the point of getting married here? The fact that having it on paper means so much to you in itself seems like cause for suspicion. Why should he have to put himself on the line for your relationship to exist?

 

And things change. Suppose you have kids and start working less; then he has to make up the difference and start working more, and you become more financially dependent on him, setting the stage for everything he'd worked for getting taken out from under him yet again should the relationship degenerate. There are custody issues to. A prenup, I would say, is a given, but even those aren't air tight.

 

One may say 'if you loves me, you will be willing to put everything on the line me.' But then I would be inclined to say 'if you loved me, you wouldn't be asking me to.'

[katiegrl]

It's not a matter of being 'jaded' at all. Again, what is the point of getting married here? The fact that having it on paper means so much to you in itself seems like cause for suspicion. Why should he have to put himself on the line for your relationship to exist?

 

And things change. Suppose you have kids and start working less; then he has to make up the difference and start working more, and you become more financially dependent on him, setting the stage for everything he'd worked for getting taken out from under him yet again should the relationship degenerate. There are custody issues to. A prenup, I would say, is a given, but even those aren't air tight.

 

One may say 'if you loves me, you will be willing to put everything on the line me.' But then I would be inclined to say 'if you loved me, you wouldn't be asking me to.'

 

 

^^^All valid points. Bottom line is commitment comes from the HEART for many people... and they don't need marriage. Just because he is opposed to marriage, does not mean he doesn't love you or doesn't want your children or to even spend his life with you.

 

 

He got burned once and does not wish to go there again...that's ALL it means. It's not about YOU or how he feels or does not feel about you. This is HIS issue.

 

 

However, that said, marriage IS very important to you. I won't judge you for that, those are your feelings to which you are entitled. You DO need that "piece of paper" many people do. NOT everyone, but many, if not most I would say.

 

 

So, for that reason, ending it was the right decision. Now you can move on and find a man who DOES want what you want.

 

 

Lesson learned. Find our early how he feels about marriage and if he sees that in his future. If not, it's next.

 

 

Good luck!

Edited May 14, 2015 by katiegrl

[cessna]

I will never understand the obsession with marriage... It's as if that bit of paperwork you sign changes everything. It doesn't.

 

I don't blame him, marriage is designed to screw the man over nearly every time.

 

Nothing wrong with having kids outside of marriage either. People need to get real and start thinking rationally and logically. It's 2015 people, come on.

[central]

I got married a second time in my 50s, after we'd lived together over 7 years and I knew it would not be a mistake. We were - and are - still deeply in love, but even so, we only decided to do so for pragmatic reasons. If this marriage ends for any reason, I very much doubt I'd marry again no matter how good the relationship. It simply isn't necessary and usually there are too few advantages in doing so.

 

 

I still think marriage may be a good thing if you want children together, but given that the stigmas of the past are essentially gone, it isn't necessary. Marriage guarantees nothing anymore - except additional misery (call it state-sponsored terrorism, if you like) if you break up.

[No Limit]

It's not surprising he doesn't want to marry again since I presume his last one failed badly. But yeah, I wouldn't even think of getting kids without marriage either. Still too much negativity about kids "out of wedlock" and it's the mothers who get judged for it. Besides, he says he believes no relationship would ever last - so why does he want children that badly? Sorry but that alone is a big red flag, unless you've always dreamed about being a single mother.

Edited May 14, 2015 by No Limit

[cessna]

It's not surprising he doesn't want to marry again since I presume his last one failed badly. But yeah, I wouldn't even think of getting kids without marriage either. Still too much negativity about kids "out of wedlock" and it's the mothers who get judged for it. Besides, he says he believes no relationship would ever last - so why does he want children that badly? Sorry but that alone is a big red flag, unless you've always dreamed about being a single mother.

 

But why is there negativity surrounding children born out of wedlock? It makes absolutely no difference. None. Zero.

 

Maybe it's a cultural thing, I'm not sure where you are from but I can imagine the views in deeply religious, conservative America differ from my views and the views of many here in England where religion is, thankfully, not as popular.

[Popsicle]

hi, guys

 

just wanted to pass something by you: I've been seeing a guy for the past 5 months. More seriously 4. He introduced me to his dad and his step brothers. We planned for hols together. We planned to go meet my folks next week.

 

We were discussing about our exes last night when the discussion totally lost control. I used to date a guy for 7 years - LDR - and I was telling my bf how I left my ex as he didn't make any decision to ask me to get engaged or move to my city or even to my country. he would have liked to have a kid or two first, which is against how I see life

 

this is where my bf reacted. Mind you, I am 34, he is 38 (divorced). He tells me he is not sure he wants to get married again. and if he does, it will be in mid/ long term. But he does want children in the short term.

 

I'm like... excuse me? I'm good enough for you to live with me and to bare your children, but not good enough for you to marry me?

 

he said he didn't know. He didn't know if he ever wanted to marry.

 

now, I don't want him to want to marry me after 5 months, but marriage is important to me. He said that getting married didn't bring him much, only a lot of hassle (he got quite traumatised by it). he is sort of convinced, deep down inside, that no relationship will ever last... it becomes more and more apparent to me.

 

don't get me wrong, he is a wonderful partner. Supportive, understanding, gives me space... just not very passionate, quite rational.

 

how does this sound to you? IS marriage a dealbreaker to you or not? Discuss

 

Run, run for your life.

[johndoe2]

But why is there negativity surrounding children born out of wedlock? It makes absolutely no difference. None. Zero.

Probably mainly because 'out of wedlock' usually means 'single parent.' Concern over single parent child-rearing is likely more pragmatic than purely cultural.

[cessna]

Probably mainly because 'out of wedlock' usually means 'single parent.' Concern over single parent child-rearing is likely more pragmatic than purely cultural.

 

No, out of wedlock means just that. It means a child was born to parents who were not married to one another. Nothing to do with them being together or not.

 

Put it this way, does marriage make it any more or less likely that a couple will stay together? No, of course it doesn't which is why I think marriage is such a non-issue when it comes to having kids.

 

It is a piece of paper, nothing more. It doesn't change people feelings, peoples love for one another.

 

In fact with the stupid money people waste on weddings these days (it's only one day remember) I'd argue that you're better off saving the money and putting it to better use, such as supporting your children.

[johndoe2]

I was merely pointing out that most people think 'out of wedlock' they probably think 'one parent, knocked up before reaching anything resembling maturity.' Historically, that was the connotation, because historically, everyone else was married. That's where the taboo comes from, imo.

[Diezel]

It always surprises me how one person's view on something like marriage can completely shock someone else.

 

We live in different times now. Not everyone wants to do things the "traditional" way. I've lived decades without ever thinking about marriage.

 

After all of the horror stories I've read?

 

The solution is always simple, just don't stay with the person if their views don't match yours. I probably would have reacted the same way the guy and been like "It's been fun".

 

In all of my years of dating, I met women who didn't want to get married, or didn't want kids either or wanted both. You never know until you have the conversation and until the ACTUAL conversation happens, there is no leading on. It's just guessing at that point.

[candie13]

see, Diezel, your speech makes sense. You are open to it. With the right person, if the time is right. Fain enough.

 

His pov is "I'll most likely never get married". Not "it depends on the relationship" or "it depends on how we two evolve" or "if I love you". No. "Marriage brought me nothing but misery, I'll most likely never marry again"

 

Which brings me to your point: indeed, I have nothing to do by his side. I want to love, I want to be madly irrationally totally inlove. I want to be with a man who feels the same way about me. Who will feel honored that I say yes to his proposal of marriage. Only then will I consider children.

 

It has nothing to do with our times. It has to do with how one wants to be loved. I want to be loved fully. Totally. Completely. I want to love with all my force, with all my heart, I want to love so much and so intensely that it hurts.

 

These are "my terms" and screw the universe if that makes me precious or out of touch with reality.

[candie13]

so last night I wrote him a line saying "thank you for being straightforward with me" and told him it's best to start no contact and that I will contact his friend to seal he deal - give her all of his stuff and get the cash he owes me for the flight tickets.

 

Thing is, she is stalling me. Telling me to meet up after my trip to Romania - I'll come back in 2 weeks time. I just wanna be done with it now. Nothing to think about, just seal the deal and disappear from the face of the Earth.

 

I feel like such a fool for having bought his act. OMG, I was so stupid and he was so cruel... introducing me to his dad, giving me his keys. He's done that with all the girls before me. The day I wanted to give him the keys to my appartment, the woman cleaning up was busy... otherwise I would have gotten her keys and given them to him. I almost flew him half the bloody continent to meet my parents. I haven't done any of that with anyone for the last 5 years. I haven't told anyone I love you in 5 -6 years.

 

Yup, stupid, because he looked safe. Bloody ****ing liar, I hope he burns in hell !!!

[candie13]

hope I get to see her this weekend. God, I just wanna get it out of the way, end it, mark it in my calendar as another big error and focus on healing !

[Gaeta]

so last night I wrote him a line saying "thank you for being straightforward with me" and told him it's best to start no contact and that I will contact his friend to seal he deal - give her all of his stuff and get the cash he owes me for the flight tickets.

 

Thing is, she is stalling me. Telling me to meet up after my trip to Romania - I'll come back in 2 weeks time. I just wanna be done with it now. Nothing to think about, just seal the deal and disappear from the face of the Earth.

 

I feel like such a fool for having bought his act. OMG, I was so stupid and he was so cruel... introducing me to his dad, giving me his keys. He's done that with all the girls before me. The day I wanted to give him the keys to my appartment, the woman cleaning up was busy... otherwise I would have gotten her keys and given them to him. I almost flew him half the bloody continent to meet my parents. I haven't done any of that with anyone for the last 5 years. I haven't told anyone I love you in 5 -6 years.

 

Yup, stupid, because he looked safe. Bloody ****ing liar, I hope he burns in hell !!!

 

I don't understand why you want to make him the bad guy. When you date one of the first thing you ask is what are your views on marriage and children. You didn't. You waited 5 months to ask and he didn't drag you along, he told you his position as soon as he was asked. The only person to be mad at is yourself for not asking him this question right at the beginning when you know marriage is of high importance to you.

 

And all of those things he said and did, he said and did because he felt them, he was not pretending.

[elaine567]

I feel like such a fool for having bought his act. OMG, I was so stupid and he was so cruel... introducing me to his dad, giving me his keys. He's done that with all the girls before me.

 

Things to you that spelled commitment and falling in "love", were just routine girlfriend stuff to him.

It is a trap many fall into, thinking that conventions like meeting the parents, giving keys to the house, going on big trips abroad, choosing furnishings, going out with close friends etc. - actions that would normally signify "serious" intent, may just be used by others to give a false sense of security and permanency, to what may just be a temporary arrangement.

[candie13]

I don't understand why you want to make him the bad guy. When you date one of the first thing you ask is what are your views on marriage and children. You didn't. You waited 5 months to ask and he didn't drag you along, he told you his position as soon as he was asked. The only person to be mad at is yourself for not asking him this question right at the beginning when you know marriage is of high importance to you.

 

And all of those things he said and did, he said and did because he felt them, he was not pretending.

 

Read my thread, i did ask about children, marriage and family. The First Time we Met. And a few times after that too. He said yes to children and Family - and i have inferred marriage. I mentioned marriage several other times - even telling hin about how important it is to me to get married in an Orthodox church. Like one month - one month and a half before. He Said if he had no other Choice and if he had to do u'r, he would. He Never Said "wait, i don't think i want to ever get married".

 

While i am grateful that he spelled it out for me now, 5 months later, i do believe he waited to make sure that i am emotionally involved to do it.

 

The biggest lie is the truth untold. That is why i am so upset. I feel deceited.

 

I am also bitter because he is a great person. It will be Really hard to replace him. And even harder to get over him.

Edited May 14, 2015 by candie13

[candie13]

Things to you that spelled commitment and falling in "love", were just routine girlfriend stuff to him.

It is a trap many fall into, thinking that conventions like meeting the parents, giving keys to the house, going on big trips abroad, choosing furnishings, going out with close friends etc. - actions that would normally signify "serious" intent, may just be used by others to give a false sense of security and permanency, to what may just be a temporary arrangement.

 

Precisely. Exactly. I couldn't have Said it better myself. Well, now i know. And now that i saw the pattern, i cannot unsee it. Motherf..., i am just so mad with myself for buying this sh*t. At least, he did not have my keys. He Never Met my parents. He never met my really close friends - they live further away. Thanks Lord for that. I am glad.

[cessna]

Sounds like this guy dodged a bullet. Christ... You've been dating for five months girl! Get a gri. You even admitted it will be hard because he was such a great guy. So why are you throwing all that away? Would you rather be married to someone who was okay just so you could be married? Or would you not rather stay together, unmarried, to the one you really love?

 

This all seems a bit silly and childish to me, like you're having some sort of hissy fit because you didn't like what you heard.

[Gaeta]

Read my thread, i did ask about children, marriage and family. The First Time we Met. And a few times after that too. He said yes to children and Family - and i have inferred marriage. I mentioned marriage several other times - even telling hin about how important it is to me to get married in an Orthodox church. Like one month - one month and a half before. He Said if he had no other Choice and if he had to do u'r, he would. He Never Said "wait, i don't think i want to ever get married".

 

While i am grateful that he spelled it out for me now, 5 months later, i do believe he waited to make sure that i am emotionally involved to do it.

 

The biggest lie is the truth untold. That is why i am so upset. I feel deceited.

 

I am also bitter because he is a great person. It will be Really hard to replace him. And even harder to get over him.

 

 

I did read your thread. The difference between you and I is if a man told me:

 

He Said if he had no other Choice and if he had to do u'r, he would.

 

I would take it as a no he doesn't want to get married but he would do it under extreme circumstances like an unwanted pregnancy. Which is still a no, he doesn't want to get married. I am sorry you are going through this, 5 months is a considerable amount of time to invest in someone. When we are in love we see and hear what we want to see and hear so I can't really blame you. I've been there as well.

[Gaeta]

Sounds like this guy dodged a bullet. Christ... You've been dating for five months girl! Get a gri. You even admitted it will be hard because he was such a great guy. So why are you throwing all that away? Would you rather be married to someone who was okay just so you could be married? Or would you not rather stay together, unmarried, to the one you really love?

 

This all seems a bit silly and childish to me, like you're having some sort of hissy fit because you didn't like what you heard.

 

For some people social status and pressure is a top priority. One day she'll get married, it'll end in a divorce a few years later and she'll see that it pretty much means nothing in terms of commitment.

[katiegrl]

see, Diezel, your speech makes sense. You are open to it. With the right person, if the time is right. Fain enough.

 

His pov is "I'll most likely never get married". Not "it depends on the relationship" or "it depends on how we two evolve" or "if I love you". No. "Marriage brought me nothing but misery, I'll most likely never marry again"

 

Which brings me to your point: indeed, I have nothing to do by his side. I want to love, I want to be madly irrationally totally inlove. I want to be with a man who feels the same way about me. Who will feel honored that I say yes to his proposal of marriage. Only then will I consider children.

 

**It has nothing to do with our times. It has to do with how one wants to be loved. I want to be loved fully. Totally. Completely. I want to love with all my force, with all my heart, I want to love so much and so intensely that it hurts.**

 

These are "my terms" and screw the universe if that makes me precious or out of touch with reality.

 

Asterisk above -- fair enough but realize there are people who **don't** need marriage to love that intensely and fully and completely...and to be 100% committed to their partner..

 

My bf and myself are perfect examples of that..

 

But again, you DO need that for yourself .. so you did the right thing.

Edited May 14, 2015 by katiegrl