candie13 Posted May 13, 2015 Posted May 13, 2015 hi, guys just wanted to pass something by you: I've been seeing a guy for the past 5 months. More seriously 4. He introduced me to his dad and his step brothers. We planned for hols together. We planned to go meet my folks next week. We were discussing about our exes last night when the discussion totally lost control. I used to date a guy for 7 years - LDR - and I was telling my bf how I left my ex as he didn't make any decision to ask me to get engaged or move to my city or even to my country. he would have liked to have a kid or two first, which is against how I see life this is where my bf reacted. Mind you, I am 34, he is 38 (divorced). He tells me he is not sure he wants to get married again. and if he does, it will be in mid/ long term. But he does want children in the short term. I'm like... excuse me? I'm good enough for you to live with me and to bare your children, but not good enough for you to marry me? he said he didn't know. He didn't know if he ever wanted to marry. now, I don't want him to want to marry me after 5 months, but marriage is important to me. He said that getting married didn't bring him much, only a lot of hassle (he got quite traumatised by it). he is sort of convinced, deep down inside, that no relationship will ever last... it becomes more and more apparent to me. don't get me wrong, he is a wonderful partner. Supportive, understanding, gives me space... just not very passionate, quite rational. how does this sound to you? IS marriage a dealbreaker to you or not? Discuss 2
Gary S Posted May 13, 2015 Posted May 13, 2015 It's not uncommon for recently divorced people, particularly men, to not be interested in marriage. Some of them loose their shirts in divorce or least get emotionally beaten badly. However, people should not be having children out of wedlock. Period. 1
Gaeta Posted May 13, 2015 Posted May 13, 2015 meh.... In my case it's not important but it's cultural. Where I live people mostly live common-law. Something like 54% of children are born from unmarried parents. Ask yourself why is marriage important to you? Your boyfriend has been married, he knows there is nothing magic about marriage and it won't in anyway make your relationship last. If it's meant to last it will marriage or not. 2
Gaeta Posted May 13, 2015 Posted May 13, 2015 However, people should not be having children out of wedlock. Period. Why? My brother has been with his common-law wife for 25 years. Have 3 children together and their relationship is still loving and strong. On the other end I was married, marriage lasted 15 years and our daughter went through her parents divorcing. So tell me, which kids are better? 2
Michelle ma Belle Posted May 13, 2015 Posted May 13, 2015 I'm not surprised at all to be honest. As Gary pointed out, many men (and women) who've had a long and miserable marriage and/or have gone through an especially difficult divorce become quite gun shy regarding remarrying. He has every right to feel the way he does as do you. As for having kids outside of marriage, again, it is better any worse than growing up in a family where their parents can't exchange a kind word and end up using the children as a pawn in their divorce? Who knows. To each their own. All I have to say is that it's better you found this out NOW rather than a year or two down the road when you're even more invested in him and your relationship. If marriage is important to you and having children within the confines of that union then great. You should hold on to your beliefs and wait for someone who shares them. 1
SoulCat Posted May 13, 2015 Posted May 13, 2015 I can understand his attitude. I'm his age, also divorced and not planning on ever getting married again. I get why it's important to some people but for a lot of folks who have gone through a (especially difficult or traumatic) divorce will not want to put themselves in that position again. We are in a way damaged goods.... 2
Redhead14 Posted May 13, 2015 Posted May 13, 2015 hi, guys just wanted to pass something by you: I've been seeing a guy for the past 5 months. More seriously 4. He introduced me to his dad and his step brothers. We planned for hols together. We planned to go meet my folks next week. We were discussing about our exes last night when the discussion totally lost control. I used to date a guy for 7 years - LDR - and I was telling my bf how I left my ex as he didn't make any decision to ask me to get engaged or move to my city or even to my country. he would have liked to have a kid or two first, which is against how I see life this is where my bf reacted. Mind you, I am 34, he is 38 (divorced). He tells me he is not sure he wants to get married again. and if he does, it will be in mid/ long term. But he does want children in the short term. I'm like... excuse me? I'm good enough for you to live with me and to bare your children, but not good enough for you to marry me? he said he didn't know. He didn't know if he ever wanted to marry. now, I don't want him to want to marry me after 5 months, but marriage is important to me. He said that getting married didn't bring him much, only a lot of hassle (he got quite traumatised by it). he is sort of convinced, deep down inside, that no relationship will ever last... it becomes more and more apparent to me. don't get me wrong, he is a wonderful partner. Supportive, understanding, gives me space... just not very passionate, quite rational. how does this sound to you? IS marriage a dealbreaker to you or not? Discuss Did you two not have a conversation fairly early on about what you each wanted for yourselves out of your dating experiences? And, you went through 7 years with someone without a clear understanding of that stuff too? Yes, it's a dealbreaker. You definitely want marriage and he doesn't know and likely won't. You move on. Unless the parties are on the same page early on, you don't enter into a relationship with them Period. Leave this one. He wants children out of wedlock and you don't. Different pages there too. 1
Author candie13 Posted May 13, 2015 Author Posted May 13, 2015 I can understand his attitude. I'm his age, also divorced and not planning on ever getting married again. I get why it's important to some people but for a lot of folks who have gone through a (especially difficult or traumatic) divorce will not want to put themselves in that position again. We are in a way damaged goods.... FYI, he was married for a few years when he was 24, that is over 12 years ago. I understand and accept that divorce changes the perspective. Just be clear early on and don't led on anyone. 1
Redhead14 Posted May 13, 2015 Posted May 13, 2015 FYI, he was married for a few years when he was 24, that is over 12 years ago. I understand and accept that divorce changes the perspective. Just be clear early on and don't led on anyone. Unless you had a conversation about all this in the earlier stages of dating, he didn't lead you on. You two just never talked about it. Now the subject is up. It's best to be clear sooner before either party gets too emotionally invested. 4
OldRover Posted May 13, 2015 Posted May 13, 2015 Your relationship is young... you can spend more time working on it. Talk about what each of you want and are willing to forego. Marriage should not be a deal breaker, there is no guarantee that the marriage certificate will work any better than a serious commitment. 2
Author candie13 Posted May 13, 2015 Author Posted May 13, 2015 Did you two not have a conversation fairly early on about what you each wanted for yourselves out of your dating experiences? Yes, we actually did. I thought he also wanted marriage and children. I wouldn't have dated him otherwise to begin with. or maybe he was talking children and family and I had inferred marriage. It is possible. Then, as months passed he revealed a certain restraint towards marriage. But we did talk about it a few months ago - I was the one talking and joking, talking about getting married in an Orthodox church and asking him how he would react / if he saw himself, as a buddhist, in an Orthodox church. He could have said right then and there "sorry lad, not quite sure I ever want to get married". HE said something like "if she absolutely wanted to, yeah, I'd do it". I may have heard what I wanted to hear. And, you went through 7 years with someone without a clear understanding of that stuff too? Yes, that is all me. Stupid, young and inlove. I was 23. I was convinced we'd end up together. I left that guy 5 years ago You definitely want marriage and he doesn't know and likely won't. You move on. Indeed, it looks like this is how it will end. Unless the parties are on the same page early on, you don't enter into a relationship with them Period. I thought I did, actually. I wouldn't have been on a second date with him, if I knew his pov on marriage.With all due respect. He wants children out of wedlock and you don't. Different pages there too. yes, he does. I don't.
Author candie13 Posted May 13, 2015 Author Posted May 13, 2015 Your relationship is young... you can spend more time working on it. Talk about what each of you want and are willing to forego. Marriage should not be a deal breaker, there is no guarantee that the marriage certificate will work any better than a serious commitment. he is a wonderful guy, OldRover, but what on Earth shall we talk about? He still won't know if he wants marriage and I'll still feel rejected, because of that. In my book, if I bump into a guy who doesn't really know if he wants a relationship, I will leave. Same with marriage. There's nothing we can talk about without him not feeling pressured into it. And I don't want to marry him absolutely or tomorrow. I just want to know that marriage is out there. On the horizon. And he is 38 and wants children sooner than later. I don't want kids out of the wedlock. I love myself more than that.
Satu Posted May 13, 2015 Posted May 13, 2015 You have to be with someone who wants to marry as much as you do. That's all there is to it. 7
Author candie13 Posted May 13, 2015 Author Posted May 13, 2015 so to kill the suspense, I did tell him we'd be lying to eachother if we continued this relationship. I believe we have had this discussion earlier on, he says he did not. Whatever. We've exchanged a few emails, as I canceled our trips and the holiday and he wants to pay me his share. He was very nice and thanked me for what I did "for us". And that's about it, folks. No screaming and yelling, no fighting, no nothing. I think I was more in distress when I break a nail. Just acceptance. Ok, I know I am the impulsive, drama queen one, but... nothing? Really? And he wants me to have children with him? Like... never in a million years. I want to love and to be loved back really strongly before mothering a child with a man. That is not love. That is a nice shrug of shoulders and moving on. I cannot explain how frustrated this gets me. Oh well, it appears I was living in a different dimension. In that dimension, it takes me a long time to call a man my bf. It takes me longer to introduce him to my friends... and it takes me forever to give him a set of my keys and to introduce him to my parents. Actually, after the big 7 years ex, I've never done that. It looks like he's a serial monogamist. 7
Michelle ma Belle Posted May 13, 2015 Posted May 13, 2015 he is a wonderful guy, OldRover, but what on Earth shall we talk about? He still won't know if he wants marriage and I'll still feel rejected, because of that. In my book, if I bump into a guy who doesn't really know if he wants a relationship, I will leave. Same with marriage. There's nothing we can talk about without him not feeling pressured into it. And I don't want to marry him absolutely or tomorrow. I just want to know that marriage is out there. On the horizon. And he is 38 and wants children sooner than later. I don't want kids out of the wedlock. I love myself more than that. Anyone can tell you that marriage is an option...at some point in the future. Then what? Then you hang on year after year after year waiting for the future to arrive so you can finally get married. What happens when he still hasn't changed his mind? Men (especially) will say anything to keep getting what they're getting. And women will think they hear what they want from the men they're in love with. It's impossible to know for certain about anything past today so asking him to stay open about marriage in the future is a waste of your time and energy in my humble opinion. 3
Gary S Posted May 13, 2015 Posted May 13, 2015 Listen, marriage is a normal part of relationships. If he wants it, he has to put a ring on it. You you want to play with women, you'd better know the rules. 2
Author candie13 Posted May 13, 2015 Author Posted May 13, 2015 Listen, marriage is a normal part of relationships. If he wants it, he has to put a ring on it. You you want to play with women, you'd better know the rules. you make me die laughing :lmao: if he wants it, he has to put a ring on it... eventually, that's my theory !
preraph Posted May 13, 2015 Posted May 13, 2015 (edited) Well, now you know he's not going to commit. The very last thing you need to do now is keep living with this guy and end up pregnant. Because if he won't commit to marriage, he certainly isn't committing to fatherhood in any good way. So stay on the pill or get on the pill and start dating other guys who DO want a relationship instead just a convenient bed partner. Common-law marriage is like accidental pregnancy -- they accidentally committed whether they wanted to or not. Wouldn't you rather want someone who is not a reluctant spouse and always resisting everything? Because that's how it will be if someone says they don't want to remarry. Edited May 13, 2015 by preraph 1
Ninjainpajamas Posted May 13, 2015 Posted May 13, 2015 so to kill the suspense, I did tell him we'd be lying to eachother if we continued this relationship. You'd have just been lying to yourself, he didn't really care and it kind of slipped out on accident his true views. I believe we have had this discussion earlier on, he says he did not. Whatever. It wasn't obvious and to the point enough, he's evading or doesn't remember. We've exchanged a few emails, as I canceled our trips and the holiday and he wants to pay me his share. He was very nice and thanked me for what I did "for us". And that's about it, folks. No screaming and yelling, no fighting, no nothing. I think I was more in distress when I break a nail. Just acceptance. Ok, I know I am the impulsive, drama queen one, but... nothing? Really? And he wants me to have children with him? Of course he's being cordial, it's who he has been for the last 4 months. But you definitely don't know the guy as well as you think you do. The reason there was no drama, is because he didn't really care or you just kind of up ended the situation with your "serious conversation"...he couldn't really motivate himself to avoid or smooth over either, just probably doesn't have the fight in him to do so, so it was just easier to let it go. And just because the guy wants to have kids with you, doesn't mean he wants to be married or even in a long-term relationship with you...it's not about you, it's what he desires for himself. Not sure why you're looking at it as you being "good enough" or not..you don't influence whether he wants children or not, but you do have the vagina to make it happen and he might think you're a decent woman. Like... never in a million years. I want to love and to be loved back really strongly before mothering a child with a man. That is not love. That is a nice shrug of shoulders and moving on. I cannot explain how frustrated this gets me. Oh well, it appears I was living in a different dimension. In that dimension, it takes me a long time to call a man my bf. It takes me longer to introduce him to my friends... and it takes me forever to give him a set of my keys and to introduce him to my parents. Actually, after the big 7 years ex, I've never done that. It looks like he's a serial monogamist. It's frustrating because you had this guy wrong and were expecting more, but the guy isn't even emotional about it. It seems like you were working towards something, while he was just simply taking the train as far as he could...once you told him to get off or it was going to cost you, he decided to just get off. He's very rational about it all because he's not really that emotionally invested, and after all...it's only been 4 months, which on the emotional level doesn't seem like much had been developed anyway. It seems like this serious talk was a bit before the actual romantic foundation...although it wouldn't have changed anything had you waited. He may initiate contact, just over the fact that you are trying to upright and leave...he may try to negotiate some kind of compromise, depending on how this goes down...after all, you're trying to get a reaction out of him and he may just bite. I don't think you're going to just walk away in a hurry honestly, and if he knows that you're seeking him out to say or do certain things, then he knows he can still buy some time with a few lies or disingenuous promises. He's older and likely wiser as you're not the first woman that's come around looking for a commitment, he might realize at this point it might just be easier to cut you lose..4 months is a good enough time that he's had you around, he's got something out of that so it wasn't like day 2 and a complete loss. He can just savor that for what it was and still be seen as a pretty awesome guy that just simply didn't want to commit...not a bad way to end a 4 month relationship...on to the next for him. 1
Author candie13 Posted May 13, 2015 Author Posted May 13, 2015 man, Ninja, I really really hate you, especially when you're 100% right !!! At least it was a smooth ride. I'm installing no contact, I'll give his stuff to a common friend. I'm installing no contact fully, since tonight. I think I said all the things I had to say - all the "provocation", as you've correctly pointed it out - and the response I got was unimpressive. So I'm cutting my losses and moving on. Hello, healing time!
Author candie13 Posted May 13, 2015 Author Posted May 13, 2015 I do believe he's not emotionally invested - or far less that I am. I don't think he's a liar. I think he will not try to make any come back, because if he did, it would mean he cares and he doesn't want to admit it - and even less show it. He loves to show gratitude and indeed, loves it when he can be the good guy, the bigger and better person. He hated it when I pointed out that he deliberately lied. He may deny it until tomorrow turns blue, he did lie. He knows it and I know it. I think he was afraid I might pull this stunt. In the mean time, he fell sick and I really took care of him. It's when he suddenly grew balls, because he took my nurturing side as weakness. It baffles me, though, why go to Romania and meet my parents, if he couldn't care less? Like why go through all that trouble? I am talking gifts, money spent and stuff... it's not like my folks live next door. I canceled the flight - gone for almost 5 days, next week. I cancelled the holidays... man, I sure pulled a "sudden departure" on the guy, hahaha! Oh well, better luck next time, for both of us.
elaine567 Posted May 13, 2015 Posted May 13, 2015 It baffles me, though, why go to Romania and meet my parents, if he couldn't care less? Like why go through all that trouble? I am talking gifts, money spent and stuff... it's not like my folks live next door. Some people just like to experience different things. Going to Romania and meeting real people who live and work there, sounds like an exciting and interesting experience to me.
Author candie13 Posted May 13, 2015 Author Posted May 13, 2015 you're right, didn't think about that.
Trishern Posted May 13, 2015 Posted May 13, 2015 hi, guys just wanted to pass something by you: I've been seeing a guy for the past 5 months. More seriously 4. He introduced me to his dad and his step brothers. We planned for hols together. We planned to go meet my folks next week. We were discussing about our exes last night when the discussion totally lost control. I used to date a guy for 7 years - LDR - and I was telling my bf how I left my ex as he didn't make any decision to ask me to get engaged or move to my city or even to my country. he would have liked to have a kid or two first, which is against how I see life this is where my bf reacted. Mind you, I am 34, he is 38 (divorced). He tells me he is not sure he wants to get married again. and if he does, it will be in mid/ long term. But he does want children in the short term. I'm like... excuse me? I'm good enough for you to live with me and to bare your children, but not good enough for you to marry me? he said he didn't know. He didn't know if he ever wanted to marry. now, I don't want him to want to marry me after 5 months, but marriage is important to me. He said that getting married didn't bring him much, only a lot of hassle (he got quite traumatised by it). he is sort of convinced, deep down inside, that no relationship will ever last... it becomes more and more apparent to me. don't get me wrong, he is a wonderful partner. Supportive, understanding, gives me space... just not very passionate, quite rational. how does this sound to you? IS marriage a dealbreaker to you or not? Discuss It would have been a dealbreaker for me before I got married. I would not have children before marriage, that' s my personal view. Others are okay with it, but I'm not. Having a child is the biggest commitment two people can make IMO and if a man isn't sure about marrying me, then I'm not going to have kids with him. If you love together and don't get on, then you break up and move on. You can't do this when you have a child together and have to maintain contact, which is tough with a difficult break up. Don't compromise your principles and don't waste your time waiting for him to change his mind, or you'll regret it. If that's his view, it's not a wrong view, but its not your view. If his experience of marriage has put him off, then there's nothing you can do about that. I'm not so keen on doing wifely duties, when I'm not a wife. Mrs. Trishern 2
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