The spouse

May 15, 2015

Solo, I would block her and ignore any request. It will just feed her obsession. I never contacted the ow, just her bs, I had no reason to believe she'd be honest with me and would therefore just set me back. Why engage with (in my case) the village bicycle? She contacted me and told me that she and her husband would love to sit down w me and my h - wtf? I didn't answer. If the bs in your case is obsessing or looking for fuel, she won't be satisfied contacting you only once. Can o worms.

May 15, 2015

Its funny their grown daughter contacted me too. Its a family affair I guess.

May 15, 2015

Oh come on.

"Taking them to eat in a nice restaurant, getting them a tasteful card on their birthday, being pleasant over dinner, etc seem to "prove", to those BWs, that they were still very much loved and valued by their WH".
This is actually insulting. How do you even know this?

I think it was meant to be.

How can you compare being married for decades to an affair? How many spouses, after working all day and dealing with the kids and bills, regularly have spontaneous hot sex on the kitchen table or quickies in the movie theater or, for that matter, sit around gazing in each others' eyes for hours? Who does the laundry and dishes while all this gazing is happening?

And lying in bed in each others' arms until the wee hours, talking? Most of us have to get up and go to work in the morning.

Couldn't agree more.

Ten characters.

May 15, 2015

I think like every single thing in an affair, the attitude that you have towards the betrayed spouse, and everything else for that matter, largely depends on what your affair partner is and has been telling you about the spouse and other things. My AP, for instance, doesn't talk much about her. He does talk about activities in general, weekend plans, his kids etc. But never about her in particular. He has mentioned once or twice that he "doesn't love her" the way she loves him, but I really don't take that at face value. He might've not been thinking clearly, or he just wanted to please me. You always have to take those statements with a grain of salt. So, I'm wondering if there are any other MMs out there who don't necessarily talk a lot about their spouses. All I hear and read here all the time is about OW - especially the single ones, like myself - whose married men complain about their married lives and/or wives. I am treated really really very well by him, but am I really the only one who doesn't get to hear all these horror stories about bad Ws and no sex life etc.? Makes me wonder.

May 15, 2015

I am treated really really very well by him, but am I really the only one who doesn't get to hear all these horror stories about bad Ws and no sex life etc.? Makes me wonder.

you aren't.

i think MMs who really don't have a horrible life at home and aren't really stressed all the time at home, won't talk sh*t about the spouse because there is nothing to tell. it's usually something missing in the relationship but the spouse isn't really doing anything wrong.

and some MMs simply think that their marriage is none of their AP's business.

May 15, 2015

I think like every single thing in an affair, the attitude that you have towards the betrayed spouse, and everything else for that matter, largely depends on what your affair partner is and has been telling you about the spouse and other things. My AP, for instance, doesn't talk much about her. He does talk about activities in general, weekend plans, his kids etc. But never about her in particular. He has mentioned once or twice that he "doesn't love her" the way she loves him, but I really don't take that at face value. He might've not been thinking clearly, or he just wanted to please me. You always have to take those statements with a grain of salt. So, I'm wondering if there are any other MMs out there who don't necessarily talk a lot about their spouses. All I hear and read here all the time is about OW - especially the single ones, like myself - whose married men complain about their married lives and/or wives. I am treated really really very well by him, but am I really the only one who doesn't get to hear all these horror stories about bad Ws and no sex life etc.? Makes me wonder.

My AP RARELY speaks of her. Every now and again he will mention that he "had to deal with her or talk to her about something", otherwise, he claims they rarely interact and they each do their own things. His actions and words show me that he doesn't like the topic of her. Maybe it's because he's resentful ,maybe it's guilt. Maybe it's because he really does love me. Honestly, I don't know and thinking about it hurts too much. Ugh.

May 15, 2015

Also late to the party.
I demonized the BS. Hated her. Had no empathy whatsoever. I saw her as the one thing that came between him and me.
He didn't help things, of course. He spoke so badly of her, told me so many intimate details about her, and even confided that he had considered killing her so he could be with me.
Now I just see him as a passive aggressive coward who put her down yet didn't have the balls to do anything about it.
However, I still I guess am hanging onto old wounds. I still don't feel a lot of empathy towards her. She called me recently and left a message demanding to know if I had proof. I ignored her message. I still waffle about whether she should know but I would only be telling her now out of revenge.

OMG you need to demonize the MM if you cannot see that he most likely drove her to this point. What an awful person he sounds like!

May 16, 2015

it's usually something missing in the relationship but the spouse isn't really doing anything wrong

I think that he doesn't know himself what's wrong with his marriage. IF there is anything wrong with it AT ALL, which I'm not sure about either, then he probably cannot identify it. She seems very content and happy, and so do the kids. He seems to be happy, too, when he's home. I think. And what he tells me doesn't count. I've learned that much from the forums. So the only thing I can assume is that because he's never home - he travels for business extensively - he needs some distraction. And we found each other. And we're a good match. But seriously, anything other than that, I don't see any deficiencies in the marriage. So I cannot agree with your opinion that if somebody has an affair, there is something wrong in the marriage. Or something missing. Or something not fulfilled.

May 16, 2015

So I cannot agree with your opinion that if somebody has an affair, there is something wrong in the marriage. Or something missing. Or something not fulfilled.

he told you that he doesn't love his W the way she loves him AND he is having an A -- the A alone proves that something isn't right, either with his marriage or with him because happy folks in happy marriages and relationships don't cheat.

May 16, 2015

I think that he doesn't know himself what's wrong with his marriage. IF there is anything wrong with it AT ALL, which I'm not sure about either, then he probably cannot identify it. She seems very content and happy, and so do the kids. He seems to be happy, too, when he's home. I think. And what he tells me doesn't count. I've learned that much from the forums. So the only thing I can assume is that because he's never home - he travels for business extensively - he needs some distraction. And we found each other. And we're a good match. But seriously, anything other than that, I don't see any deficiencies in the marriage. So I cannot agree with your opinion that if somebody has an affair, there is something wrong in the marriage. Or something missing. Or something not fulfilled.

Minnie: If I didn't know better...I'd say we were seeing the same MM. He never trashed her to me, and in fact had generally positive things to say. Occasionally I would get a hint, very subtle, if I listened between the lines. (He might subtly indicate that they hadn't had sex in several weeks, for example.) I came to respect him for not running her down to me. I thought that, given the lack of respect he was showing in his having an affair in the first place, he was at least showing some respect by not doing that.

I also arrived at the conclusion that he must be having an A out of boredom or loneliness while traveling for work, but I now don't think that's true. My conclusion is that our relationship allowed him to give voice to a part of himself that he has to hide in his marriage. He has a devilish, playful, naughty side that could not be accommodated inside the boundaries of his marriage.

We all have many facets. Sometimes, not always, in an LTR we have to make some of those facets dormant in order to get along with the partner. If one doesn't have to do it at all, that's the best. If one is doing this only to a limited degree, it can be workable. (In my M, I had to do that with almost all of my real self, which is why it ended. ) I think that my MM wanted to let his dormant side out of the dungeon. His W doesn't like to do the things I like to do, socially, artistically, politically, sexually, etc. She is probably a great mother and a devoted wife. I think he chose her as a wife because he knew she would be. But she's just not into the things he's into in some realms, and I am. Doesn't make her a bad wife or mean they have a bad marriage. She just can't be his partner in those things, and I can. He loves me for doing that.

May 16, 2015

it might have a romantic component but it's not romantic at all. i agree with you -- but the kind of love you described your MM having for the spouse, in my opinion, is highly problematic. that kind of love is viewed as pathological and it usually doesn't transform FROM romantic love because in most cases, the romantic love was never there.

This is true in their case; there never was romantic love in the way it is commonly understood. However, pathological or no, there absolutely is love and a strong bond between MM and his W. He will never leave.

Just as we often discuss work, our respective children, and other things important in our lives, we also discuss MM's W and M. And not in a whining, disparaging way at all. I don't see this as disrespectful. When people love each other it's normal and natural to discuss the things they care about. I wish we were out in the open and he could be as honest with his W about me.

May 16, 2015

No, I'm not. I'm simply acknowledging the complexities of these relationships and understanding of the fact that leaving a marriage with children and financial difficulties isn't as easy as some (like you) make it out to be. It's really not that simple or easy.

Yeah, keep telling yourself that. Not one MM on the infidelity forum claims he was very happy at the time of his MM. Comfortable at best, but definitely not happy.

Mine is. He told me the other day he thinks he has an awesome life.

May 16, 2015

However, pathological or no, there absolutely is love and a strong bond between MM and his W. He will never leave.

i have no doubt that there is a strong bond between your MM & his W -- i just don't think it's love or even based on love (it might be based on your MM's self-love). i see a LOT of pathology disguised as love but LOVE? no.

Just as we often discuss work, our respective children, and other things important in our lives, we also discuss MM's W and M. And not in a whining, disparaging way at all. I don't see this as disrespectful. When people love each other it's normal and natural to discuss the things they care about. I wish we were out in the open and he could be as honest with his W about me.

it is disrespectful because you're discussing his W without her consent - her problems, issues, past, thoughts, opinions, personal conversations... it really doesn't get more disrespectful than that. it's straight up gossiping and "selling out" someone who told you things believing that will stay between the two of you and no amount of love can possibly justify that.

May 16, 2015

Mine is. He told me the other day he thinks he has an awesome life.

was his life awesome before the A though?

May 16, 2015

So, I'm wondering if there are any other MMs out there who don't necessarily talk a lot about their spouses. All I hear and read here all the time is about OW - especially the single ones, like myself - whose married men complain about their married lives and/or wives. I am treated really really very well by him, but am I really the only one who doesn't get to hear all these horror stories about bad Ws and no sex life etc.? Makes me wonder.

Nope, he barely ever says anything about her. Figured I'd get upset with her if he said what it was like.

Meanwhile I asked him he was gonna have make-up sex with her yet, because according to him he can sex anytime he wants..just chooses not to because of constant fighting.. I don't know how long I could stand being married to someone who didn't want sex with me. A major spirit crusher. Actually thinking about that I really hope for her sake he's lying. It was bad enough when my husband only wanted it twice a month.

May 16, 2015

was his life awesome before the A though?

Not bad by any stretch. He just wanted more intimacy - not just sex. Other than that, he told me very early on that he loves her, loves his life with her. He thinks she's a great mother and quite successful in her own right.

I have no negative feelings towards her. Obviously she's a better person than me. She, like many other spouses I guess, doesn't realise how important intimacy is to her husband. Doesn't mean she deserves an unfaithful husband. But that's the end result anyway.

May 16, 2015

i think MMs who really don't have a horrible life at home and aren't really stressed all the time at home, won't talk sh*t about the spouse because there is nothing to tell. it's usually something missing in the relationship but the spouse isn't really doing anything wrong.

Maybe not really a horrible home life, just not completely fulfilling. People change over time and unfortunately, not even the spouse grows at the same rate to be on the same page. Or maybe whatever was missing had always been "not there" to begin with, but both parties probably hoped that they can work it out over time.

I think about this a lot, this "missing" thing in the marriage is important enough for a WS to seek it outside of the M. The WS chooses to risk the M in order to obtain it.

May 16, 2015

I think like every single thing in an affair, the attitude that you have towards the betrayed spouse, and everything else for that matter, largely depends on what your affair partner is and has been telling you about the spouse and other things. My AP, for instance, doesn't talk much about her. He does talk about activities in general, weekend plans, his kids etc. But never about her in particular. He has mentioned once or twice that he "doesn't love her" the way she loves him, but I really don't take that at face value. He might've not been thinking clearly, or he just wanted to please me. You always have to take those statements with a grain of salt. So, I'm wondering if there are any other MMs out there who don't necessarily talk a lot about their spouses. All I hear and read here all the time is about OW - especially the single ones, like myself - whose married men complain about their married lives and/or wives. I am treated really really very well by him, but am I really the only one who doesn't get to hear all these horror stories about bad Ws and no sex life etc.? Makes me wonder.

My MM is the same Minnie, he hardly talks about her or if there's something that's on his mind, he would ask me if I want to hear about it before he shares it. And they're not really horror stories, they're normal relationship problems imo. With these sharing moments, I have never 'bashed' his W, it doesn't help and I don't want to influence him or his decisions. MM is very generous with me, I never ask but he continues to surprise me with his generosity and tells me constantly that he only wants to see me happy.

May 16, 2015

Maybe not really a horrible home life, just not completely fulfilling.

of course, the fact that someone even has an A goes to show that SOMETHING is missing, something isn't right. and that "something" is never really a small thing.

in my experience, if a MM has a "peaceful" enough home -- he won't really talk about it. but conflict free relationship don't mean happy and fulfilling relationships. sometimes a relationship is dead and you kind of co-exist, no drama, just peacefully living and doing normal and regular family things with each other. you have those MMs who are in a home constantly filled with tension, who are stressed by it, constantly fighting with their spouse and who are actually extremely ANGRY at said spouse. and then you have those who tell their APs what they think they want to hear, no matter what is the actual truth.

i have a lot more respect for those MMs who keep quiet about the spouse and family life -- meaning, they don't take their marital problems and spouse bashing outside of their home. it's not necessary, it's creating drama and tension already from the OW to the spouse and things can get SUPER complicated when the MM decides to divorce - because the OW & spouse often have to co-exist and co-parent and that's basically impossible when the OW has been "filled" with nothing but negative infos about the spouse.

May 16, 2015

I think about this a lot, this "missing" thing in the marriage is important enough for a WS to seek it outside of the M. The WS chooses to risk the M in order to obtain it.

this is interesting - this "missing" thing is important enough to risk the marrige... but not enough to actually CHOOSE to end the marriage. but then again, divorce isn't easy and not everyone can afford it... so there is that.

but it is interesting - you're risking something and at the same time, you're not letting it go. folks like to wait for a "better moment" but that moment usually never comes - delay is the deadliest form of denial.

May 16, 2015

You can disect it, romanticize it, whatever you want but in the end, it's pure selfishness on the part of the married person. I'm sorry so many are hurt by the selfish acts of these people, that includes hurting OWs, BS's and most of all the kids.

May 16, 2015

Oh come on.

"Taking them to eat in a nice restaurant, getting them a tasteful card on their birthday, being pleasant over dinner, etc seem to "prove", to those BWs, that they were still very much loved and valued by their WH". This is actually insulting. How do you even know this?

As I stated in the post you're lampooning, this is based on what BWs themselves have posted on LS. If it's "insulting", then blame those BWs for insulting... Who? Themselves?

How can you compare being married for decades to an affair?

I'm not sure why it comes down to being married *for decades* - infidelity can happen at any stage in a M, or even before the M, as you'll know from reading these boards. And I don't believe the length of M has any real bearing - my H's parents have been M for more than 50 years and are as passionate and as intimate as I described in the post you choose to lampoon (although arthritis prevents too much shagging on kitchen tables these days).

And, actually, I do feel better qualified than many to compare affairs to marriages, having actually transitioned an affair into a marriage with the same person, and having been together for more than a decade. Most of the people here have not done that, and so can't comment in the same way. They may have had marriages, or affairs, or both, but not a decent-length marriage and affair to the same person, ie the same relationship through different stages, with different labels. So while they may be comparing apples and cabbages, I'm actually comparing the same thing. I live it every day. It's not just a question of prejudice for me - it's my own lived experience.

How many spouses, after working all day and dealing with the kids and bills, regularly have spontaneous hot sex on the kitchen table or quickies in the movie theater or, for that matter, sit around gazing in each others' eyes for hours? Who does the laundry and dishes while all this gazing is happening?

And lying in bed in each others' arms until the wee hours, talking? Most of us have to get up and go to work in the morning.

I feel really sorry for the impoverished life you - and those you describe - must lead. I always make time for what really matters to me - and I'd far rather let computers pay my bills and machines wash my dishes if it gives me time to spend with my H. And I know I'm not the only one. But I guess that's why some Ms are more fulfilling than others - some people place more stock on polishing the silverware than connecting with their partners.

May 16, 2015

As I stated in the post you're lampooning, this is based on what BWs themselves have posted on LS. If it's "insulting", then blame those BWs for insulting... Who? Themselves?

Bet I've read at least as many posts as you have, and that's not the impression I have.

I disagreed with your post. The fact that it was a public disagreement ("lampoon") is because this is, well, a public forum.

I'm not sure why it comes down to being married *for decades* - infidelity can happen at any stage in a M, or even before the M, as you'll know from reading these boards. And I don't believe the length of M has any real bearing - my H's parents have been M for more than 50 years and are as passionate and as intimate as I described in the post you choose to lampoon (although arthritis prevents too much shagging on kitchen tables these days).

Most people would agree that the longer a marriage goes on, the more responsibilities (children, mortgage, etc) and therefore, the less gazing in your eyes time and kitchen table sex time. Just a matter of math. However, that has NOTHING to do with spousal love or connection. In fact, those things can and do strengthen spousal love, without the need for illicit sex in the bathroom at the movie theater. Which is the part of your post that I had a real problem with.

And, actually, I do feel better qualified than many to compare affairs to marriages, having actually transitioned an affair into a marriage with the same person, and having been together for more than a decade.

I don't see why your transitioning a affair to a marriage is any less relevant than those of us who were in multi-year affairs and multi-year marriages with two different people. The math is still the same. And anyway, your affair was relatively short and it was meant from the beginning to end in a marriage. In that way it's really no different than the courtship that precedes a marriage (except for the cheating part, of course).

I feel really sorry for the impoverished life you - and those you describe - must lead.

Yeah, my life is "impoverished".

You don't have a clue of what is in my life.

I'm truly glad that you and your H spend all your time "connecting" and don't have any of that real-life stuff interfering. Just don't assume that other people are so much more miserable than you. Because you are wrong.

May 16, 2015

let's not forget that most common of variables: kids. My WW actually do make use of the kitchen table from time to time. But it's not necessarily common, as we don't want computers and machines occupying our son that often. I don't think kids are an excuse to not be connected or lose some of the passion, but it's a huge part of a couple's life, a stress that needs to be accounted for.

May 16, 2015

As I stated in the post you're lampooning, this is based on what BWs themselves have posted on LS.

no, sweetie -- it's based on the fact that you can't move away from your own situation & experience with an A & your H's BS, you're heavily projecting & you're looking at every A & BS assuming that it's the same situation that yours was. your posts are usually full of bitterness & arrogance towards the BS so when you write something that comes off as insulting to them? not surprising.

And I don't believe the length of M has any real bearing...

it does -- if it doesn't, it means that your relationship never progressed, it STAGNATES & stays the same for years. bad news. folks who have the same relationship in their 1st & 10th year have a BIG problem.

...my H's parents have been M for more than 50 years and are as passionate and as intimate as I described in the post you choose to lampoon...

but "shagging on the kitchen table" is not the only way to keep the passion alive and is not the only "proof" that there IS passion in your relationship -- that's what Hope tried to say, i think. just because someone isn't shagging on a kitchen table, it doesn't mean that there is no passion & intimacy there.

you can connect with your spouse in many other different ways.

And, actually, I do feel better qualified than many to compare affairs to marriages, having actually transitioned an affair into a marriage with the same person, and having been together for more than a decade.

you're actually not qualified at all -- according to your previous posts, you never felt like you were in an A & it was short, so you can't compare because there was no real difference between your A & actual relationship (and this is based on your posts).

I feel really sorry for the impoverished life you - and those you describe - must lead.

you feel sorry for people who don't lead a life you think they should lead...? you feel sorry for people who lead different lives than you...? welp.

But I guess that's why some Ms are more fulfilling than others - some people place more stock on polishing the silverware than connecting with their partners.

just because someone can't afford to go to movies & sneak out to have sex OR to gaze into each other's eyes until 6AM -- it doesn't mean that they put more stock on polishing the silverware than connecting with their partners.

again... people connect in many different (more realistic) ways.

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