Emilia Posted June 11, 2015 Posted June 11, 2015 Men who are disrespectful, in general, not just to women, tend to be noticed more because, well, behaviors which contravene society's conventions are more noticeable than those which conform. That women are attracted to these men is a sideshow since women are attracted to all kinds of men. These men are simply more easily noticed. Hence the Charlie example. The quiet accountant from Nebraska, not so much, even though he might get women just as much, or more. This is certainly true as well.
elaine567 Posted June 11, 2015 Posted June 11, 2015 Sort of, what the women in question are attracted to is darkness. That manifests itself in different ways. Some claim it's because they are young, gullible etc but I think more because they have that same kind of darkness. I'd imagine Manson's girlfriend is an example of that, she certainly looks like there is something mentally wrong with her. I agree, some humans are attracted to the "dark" side, some are attracted to scary people, some love drama, some love arguments and fights, some love being disrespected, some just feel better when things are going wrong and they are in a mess, some love being the victim, etc. But none of that is "normal" and usually comes from messed up lives, - abuse, neglect, violence, alcohol, drugs... For anyone to suggest all women are this way is ridiculous.
Robert Z Posted June 11, 2015 Posted June 11, 2015 I doubt that the head-scratching guys posting here are actually "average guys" IRL tho. No offense but I get the distinct impression they're socially deficient in more ways than one, which is actually most likely the heart of their problem as opposed to perceived or imagined prejudices or foolishness on the part of the women who reject or ignore them. Maybe, but it is a paradigm as old as the hills. If you wish to bash the men here specifically, I'm not in a position to argue either way. Given that you have a bf and 5 gfs, I don't think you quite qualify as average. So maybe you're not the best judge.
jen1447 Posted June 11, 2015 Posted June 11, 2015 Meh, I get "average" guys hitting on me all the time so I know who they are. I also know the ones who mainly slink in the shadows and stare. Also the truth minus antagonism isn't bashing. 2
Renton Posted June 11, 2015 Posted June 11, 2015 I do agree with you here! Dating is harsh for all, though. It's really not that much different on this side of the fence. I see men wrapped around the fingers of women who give them nothing but grief and drama. That's not dating that's called marriage 2
BronzeAgeJaeger217 Posted June 11, 2015 Posted June 11, 2015 Why is being a doormat, letting people walk over you a thousand, million times worse if you are a guy?
toscaroscura Posted June 11, 2015 Posted June 11, 2015 Why is being a doormat, letting people walk over you a thousand, million times worse if you are a guy? Because you're going against the paradigm of western masculinity? 1
autumnnight Posted June 11, 2015 Posted June 11, 2015 Why is being a doormat, letting people walk over you a thousand, million times worse if you are a guy? See, this is not actually what I see happening. I see a guy bending over backward with a woman, not because he actually CARES all that much about HER, but because he thinks if he does x, y, and z, she will somehow be mathematically obligated to date and/or sleep with him. And when this mathematical formula (aka the behaviors he performed mostly to "get" something) fail, he rails against her, sends her nasty texts about being immature, and joins a web site to rant about how awful women are. Rinse and repeat. Then he reads a post like mine and calls me bitch under his breath and tells me I don't understand or have empathy. Look....if there is/was a female counterpart to this, I was it for a long time. I tried to become whatever guy of interest might want, my world revolved around what his smile might mean, and when he asked out someone else, I bemoaned the shallowness of men who want a smaller-nosed woman. It didn't make me any happier or get me more dates. And the bespectacled, slightly overweight, acne-prone, too tall (insert additional "flaws" here) women who sat around and moaned with me did NOT do me any favors. My friend who told me to get over myself did.
MrNate 2.0 Posted June 11, 2015 Posted June 11, 2015 So... What about the guys that tease women in a playful way? Are we sure that's not what's going on?
ascendotum Posted June 11, 2015 Posted June 11, 2015 (edited) I doubt that the head-scratching guys posting here are actually "average guys" IRL tho. No offense but I get the distinct impression they're socially deficient in more ways than one, which is actually most likely the heart of their problem as opposed to perceived or imagined prejudices or foolishness on the part of the women who reject or ignore them. I'd say that's true too. The average is the middle 50%. As to how really bad they are in terms of making a good bf its hard to say. There is a compounding factor here as well, as the longer they are less experienced the longer they stay somewhat emotionally stunted and the more women are aloof with them the less they will appreciate then and the more women will be seen like a separate species almost. That Mason girl for instance, if she rarely initiated a conversation with someone she did not know, was not proactive or ambitious, was a bit of a doormat, did not play any sports, did not have many interests, did not have many friends, was not interested in current events, was a bit shy, was very insecure, stc, but she was a sweet girl - that would not worry these guys. In fact it would not be a problem for a lot of other guys who are confident and have their act together. A lot of the short comings they have are really not unique to men and there are plenty of plan/average looking 'sweet girl' equivalents of the 'nice guy' but they are seen differently by the sexes. I guess its a bit of an indictment on men that many will over look character shortcomings for a slim body and easy going nature. Many sweet girl types don't want nice guys (for the reasons usually given) even tho they have many of the same traits. Edited June 12, 2015 by ascendotum
autumnnight Posted June 12, 2015 Posted June 12, 2015 I think guys are just more forgiving of faults than women are. I disagree. I think forgiveness willingness is a personality thing, not a gender thing.
Renton Posted June 12, 2015 Posted June 12, 2015 Everyone says dating is a numbers game on here, yet when a guy actually plays the numbers and goes out with plenty of women, ladies like you assume he is a lowlife. Isn't it "online dating is a numbers game" though. I have heard both version of the phrase but the online one is the most common one.
clia Posted June 12, 2015 Posted June 12, 2015 I never said anything about her being good quality. The thing is, Manson obviously is NOT good quality, yet even he has a woman. That is discouraging to all the struggling dudes out there, because they don't feel they are as bad as Manson, and they can't get a date. I wouldn't date Manson's girl, but I have more options too. But the struggling dudes aren't just Charles Manson without the crazy. Manson was intelligent, manipulative, charming, charismatic, and confident. He was able to sleep with any woman he chose and convinced both men and women to have sex with him and kill for him. There is obviously something about him that attracted numerous people to him. Tons of people loved this guy. Struggling dudes don't have "that." So anyone who is saying "Well gee, Charles Manson can get women but I can't" isn't looking at the bigger picture. Interestingly enough, he is also only around 5'1". 1
TouchedByViolet Posted June 12, 2015 Posted June 12, 2015 But the struggling dudes aren't just Charles Manson without the crazy. Manson was intelligent, manipulative, charming, charismatic, and confident. He was able to sleep with any woman he chose and convinced both men and women to have sex with him and kill for him. There is obviously something about him that attracted numerous people to him. Tons of people loved this guy. Struggling dudes don't have "that." So anyone who is saying "Well gee, Charles Manson can get women but I can't" isn't looking at the bigger picture. Interestingly enough, he is also only around 5'1". I'm sure plenty of sane men and women rejected Manson, you just hear about the morons who followed him. Typically people who are more emotionally driven and aren't able to think for themselves follow these type of psychos... IME there are a significant number of women who respond positively to being disrepected. Concerning the social aspect, I dont believe most struggling guys have huge social failures. They are often just perceived that way because they are mostly single. I know a few great guys who blame their social skills but they really just don't look good enough. 2
autumnnight Posted June 12, 2015 Posted June 12, 2015 I know a few great guys who blame their social skills but they really just don't look good enough. And you know? Many people may disagree with me, but I honestly think it's hard to be ugly. No matter your height or nose size or hair color or chin angle...if you take care of yourself, are hygienic, have your hair actual shaped from time to time, wear clothing that is clean and neat that DON'T all have giant boobs or Gollum on them, buy some soap and clearasil....pretty much anyone will look passable enough to find someone. But yeah even if you have great raw material, if your hair is shaggy, your skin is pasty, and your clothing has gaming marathon week-old pizza on it....you aren't going to get a lot of dates. 2
jay1983 Posted June 12, 2015 Posted June 12, 2015 (edited) I'm sure plenty of sane men and women rejected Manson, you just hear about the morons who followed him. Typically people who are more emotionally driven and aren't able to think for themselves follow these type of psychos..I bet my balls this is true. IME there are a significant number of women who respond positively to being disrepected. Yeah, but there's usually a balancing act, not just treating them like sh*t 100% of the time or vice versa. Concerning the social aspect, I dont believe most struggling guys have huge social failures. They are often just perceived that way because they are mostly single. I know a few great guys who blame their social skills but they really just don't look good enough. Yes, but these in particular, I read a lot of what these guys write and they're pretty clueless as well as stubborn when taking advice. Edited June 12, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator Fix quote
jay1983 Posted June 12, 2015 Posted June 12, 2015 ...and that's why they continue to fail. My best dating tactic has always been to get women used to seeing me. It doesn't matter where I am or what I'm doing, I use that same tactic. I go to the same convenience store to get gas. I go to the same deli and get sandwiches often. I used to hit the same bars, and even the same strip clubs when that was my thing. Each time, it paid off for me. When some guy they don't know shows up and starts staring them down, women can be defensive. When a friendly enough guy shows up each week and makes no moves to hit on them, they open up a bit, and often will start chatting him up. It's always worked that way for me. Even though I have a GF, some cute young girl from the deli down the road has a bit of a crush on me. All because I go in there so often. Gold.......
SammySammy Posted June 12, 2015 Posted June 12, 2015 And you know? Many people may disagree with me, but I honestly think it's hard to be ugly. No matter your height or nose size or hair color or chin angle...if you take care of yourself, are hygienic, have your hair actual shaped from time to time, wear clothing that is clean and neat that DON'T all have giant boobs or Gollum on them, buy some soap and clearasil....pretty much anyone will look passable enough to find someone. But yeah even if you have great raw material, if your hair is shaggy, your skin is pasty, and your clothing has gaming marathon week-old pizza on it....you aren't going to get a lot of dates. I can agree with you. Men have to learn to control the things we can control. Physical fitness, grooming, clothing, confidence, manners ... those are all things we can do something about. There are plenty of "ugly" guys with girlfriends or wives. Some with beautiful girlfriends or wives. Those guys have overcome their "ugliness" in some fashion and it's usually by taking care of the things they control. 4
GorillaTheater Posted June 12, 2015 Posted June 12, 2015 There are plenty of "ugly" guys with girlfriends or wives. Some with beautiful girlfriends or wives. Damn right there are. 3
StanMusial Posted June 12, 2015 Posted June 12, 2015 Second, there is maybe a quarter of a percent of women out there who would actually date a murdering prisoner. So using THEM to generalize to all women is just stupid. I'm sorry. It holds zero water. Some of them are on here.
autumnnight Posted June 12, 2015 Posted June 12, 2015 Some of them are on here. The manson woman is on here??? Ok, ya got me...but that wild look in his eye is irresistible. If all a man who moans about "getting women" wants is a vagina to fill, then he can probably go to a dive bar at 2:00 am right before last call. If he wants a woman of any quality, he needs to concentrate on being the kind of person a quality woman would want. However, I still say what they really want is a mathematically guaranteed way to get into the pants of a "hot" girl. 1
StanMusial Posted June 12, 2015 Posted June 12, 2015 The manson woman is on here??? I don't know, but it would not surprise me at all. I was referring to other stuff I have read on here. http://www.loveshack.org/forums/general/general-relationship-discussion/496616-why-do-some-women-date-felons To be honest, what I found when searching for this particular thread was fairly depressing. Because there is a lot of the same. Women going ass over elbow in their justifications of dating convicts. Whatever. A little bit is entertaining but a lot of it is depressing.
autumnnight Posted June 12, 2015 Posted June 12, 2015 I don't know, but it would not surprise me at all. I was referring to other stuff I have read on here. http://www.loveshack.org/forums/general/general-relationship-discussion/496616-why-do-some-women-date-felons To be honest, what I found when searching for this particular thread was fairly depressing. Because there is a lot of the same. Women going ass over elbow in their justifications of dating convicts. Whatever. A little bit is entertaining but a lot of it is depressing. Yikes. Yeah, I can't really say much to pretty up that pig of a thread. I will say that there is a difference between Manson and a guy who did something stupid at 18, turned his life around, and at 40 is on the straight and narrow. Not sure I'd date him, but that is different from Manson. Honestly, there are some women on forums who just like taking the contrary position as some warped sense of...feminism or something? 1
jay1983 Posted June 12, 2015 Posted June 12, 2015 Yikes. Yeah, I can't really say much to pretty up that pig of a thread. I will say that there is a difference between Manson and a guy who did something stupid at 18, turned his life around, and at 40 is on the straight and narrow. Not sure I'd date him, but that is different from Manson. Honestly, there are some women on forums who just like taking the contrary position as some warped sense of...feminism or something? I wonder if that's how they are IRL, do they act differently when they're out and about with friends? Or do they not get out much and spend all their time on the computer? I question a lot of the dudes on here too, who just agree with everything these women say.
autumnnight Posted June 12, 2015 Posted June 12, 2015 I wonder if that's how they are IRL, do they act differently when they're out and about with friends? Or do they not get out much and spend all their time on the computer? I question a lot of the dudes on here too, who just agree with everything these women say. I'm going to confess without remorse that I am a traditional, southern, raised-by-a-gracious-belle feminine woman who can be tough as nails when necessary. I have always had more women friends than men friends. I may not like every woman I have ever met, but I do love women (not THAT way, but I do not despise my own gender). I do not have any inherent need to prove to myself that I can do everything someone with a penis can do....simply because I do not WANT to do everything someone with a penis can do. I like men. Some men are idiots, but as a rule, I admire men. I had a great dad, my brother rocks, my brother in law rocks, and though we were waaaaay incompatible, my ex has numerous good qualities. The majority of the men I have ever encountered have been good people. The ones who weren't I just tried to stop encountering. I was raped but do not buy "rape culture." I am ambitious but have no desire to "quash" the so called boys' club. Honestly, I think most of the women who spout of hate to other women, hate to men, and jaded, ill-crafted sarcasm online just don't like themselves very much. Same for the men.
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