WhereSpiritsRoam Posted April 21, 2005 Posted April 21, 2005 This girl and I have been hanging out for awhile, and while we really like each other, she's not quite ready to get into another relationship at this point in time. School is her priority right now, and she still has unresolved issued with her ex. While she has not guaranteed anything for the future, she sees a lot of good things in me and the general consensus is that I have a good to excellent chance of dating her in the future if I play my cards right. For now, she wants to hang out as friends and get to know each other better until which time she feels comfortable dating again. My question to you all is this: how much effort should I put in from this point forward? Should I keep daily contact like we have been and continue to try and separate myself from the pack, or should I just drop back quite a bit and only talk to her casually now and then? My only concern with the latter is that I will fall into the mix with all the other guys who like her, and I know she does like me a lot right now. What's the best way to proceed? I will obviously still hang out with her, and I will continue to talk to other girls, but this is kind of a difficult situation to be in. I have expressed, and she understands, that being friends is not my long-term objective and she is fine with that. She just needs time to sort things out on her life. Thanks for your input.
ReluctantRomeo Posted April 21, 2005 Posted April 21, 2005 Originally posted by WhereSpiritsRoam This girl and I have been hanging out for awhile, and while we really like each other, she's not quite ready to get into another relationship at this point in time. School is her priority right now, and she still has unresolved issued with her ex. While she has not guaranteed anything for the future, she sees a lot of good things in me and the general consensus is that I have a good to excellent chance of dating her in the future if I play my cards right. That's very big of her. My question to you all is this: how much effort should I put in from this point forward? Should I keep daily contact like we have been and continue to try and separate myself from the pack, or should I just drop back quite a bit and only talk to her casually now and then? My only concern with the latter is that I will fall into the mix with all the other guys who like her, and I know she does like me a lot right now. I'd move on romantically. Keep the friendly link with her and the door open, but be sometimes available and friendly, sometimes unavailable and with other girls or with guy friends. This will give you the chance to look at better prospects elsewhere - you currently have little prospect of anything from her - but also (paradoxically) will make you more attractive to her. Girls love dynamic guys with their own lives. And that attract other girls.
Marshbear Posted April 21, 2005 Posted April 21, 2005 I would make yourself not to available to her. If you become to close while you are waiting you might be classified as a friend for good. Absence makes the heart grow fonder. I would stay casual for now and see what happens....
Author WhereSpiritsRoam Posted April 21, 2005 Author Posted April 21, 2005 Originally posted by ReluctantRomeo I'd move on romantically. Keep the friendly link with her and the door open, but be sometimes available and friendly, sometimes unavailable and with other girls or with guy friends. This will give you the chance to look at better prospects elsewhere - you currently have little prospect of anything from her - but also (paradoxically) will make you more attractive to her. Girls love dynamic guys with their own lives. And that attract other girls. This concept has been a difficult one for me to grasp, but I've seen a lot of truth to it. My friends say that if I "disappear" some (but not fall off the face of the Earth), it will somehow increase my perceived value to her. I guess it goes back to the whole "chase or be chased" thing. It has been a good 7 or 8 years since I have a found a girl of this caliber that sets my heart on fire, so finding "better prospects" is unlikely, though I will try. I concur that I have little prospect with her for the short-term, but I would like to preserve my chances for the future (consider it a long-term investment, if you will). What makes this hard is that we both enjoy talking to each other, and we have kind of become accustomed to sending long e-mails back and forth to each other every day. Do you think I should stop doing that? If I do, she surely will think is something is wrong. She notices little things like that.
Author WhereSpiritsRoam Posted April 21, 2005 Author Posted April 21, 2005 Originally posted by Marshbear I would make yourself not to available to her. If you become to close while you are waiting you might be classified as a friend for good. Absence makes the heart grow fonder. I would stay casual for now and see what happens.... This seems to what everyone is suggesting, so I will go with it. What would you consider casual, though? Online once or twice a week? A few e-mails a week? I have no problem scaling things way back, but I don't want it to blow up in my face. She's had other guys just vanish from her life after they were told the same thing, and I don't want to become one of "them". P.S. I've been reading your posts Marshbear, and you have really great, objective opinions. It's always nice to see new members on here!
LucreziaBorgia Posted April 21, 2005 Posted April 21, 2005 Make your emails at first shorter, and then fewer. Not abrupt, or lacking in quality - just less on the quantity end in both content and frequency. You can explain the shortness and slowing frequency of emails by 'being busy' or 'having a lot to catch up on' - and then go out and actually do things that will keep you busy - throw yourself into something that will lower her on your priority list - even if you have to grit your teeth and force yourself to do it. Eventually she'll naturally be lower on the priority list and you won't have to fake it. She let you know that you aren't her top priority, and its time for you to show her the same. That's not to say that you should play games or anything, just legitimately fill your schedule with other things and allow the time you would normally prioritize for her to be filled with other things. Eventually you'll find less time to do the 'lengthy email every day' - and hopefully with more time and a varied schedule, you'll find that you don't really 'need' to do that. Keep it friendly, but don't be 'friends' - unless you want to find yourself exiled to the 'just friends' zone. Don't go out of your way for her any more than you would any other friend, and go out and DATE. Even if its the most casual of friendly dates - be in the company of other females: movies, coffee - 'safe' dates. Not the drinking/casual sex route, but the friendly 'go out and have fun' sort of stuff. You don't have to let her know you are dating - the purpose isn't to date in order to let her know you are dating - this needs to be time for you to date in general. You don't have to go and fall in love, or 'get your mind' off of her - just move away and see what happens naturally. You never know - you may just end up meeting someone who will give you a higher priority.
ReluctantRomeo Posted April 21, 2005 Posted April 21, 2005 Yeah, it's difficult to do. And to strike the right balance. But measured disappearance is the way to go. Don't stop replying to her emails. Just write back less often. Don't make a big thing of it, but make sure she knows you're busy and having a great time - let her make the link to the reduced frequency of emailing. If she asks - by email or in person - the tone I would be tempted to take (what's your opinion, Marshbear?) is "of course we're still friends, I just haven't had the time this past week, what with the hot dates with Natasha and Helena and that crazy barbecue night with the guys on the beach. Boy am I tired today". Be truthful of course - this is just the tone I'd take.
Author WhereSpiritsRoam Posted April 21, 2005 Author Posted April 21, 2005 Originally posted by LucreziaBorgia Make your emails at first shorter, and then fewer. Not abrupt, or lacking in quality - just less on the quantity end in both content and frequency. You can explain the shortness and slowing frequency of emails by 'being busy' or 'having a lot to catch up on' - and then go out and actually do things that will keep you busy - throw yourself into something that will lower her on your priority list - even if you have to grit your teeth and force yourself to do it. Eventually she'll naturally be lower on the priority list and you won't have to fake it. She let you know that you aren't her top priority, and its time for you to show her the same. That's not to say that you should play games or anything, just legitimately fill your schedule with other things and allow the time you would normally prioritize for her to be filled with other things. Eventually you'll find less time to do the 'lengthy email every day' - and hopefully with more time and a varied schedule, you'll find that you don't really 'need' to do that. Keep it friendly, but don't be 'friends' - unless you want to find yourself exiled to the 'just friends' zone. Don't go out of your way for her any more than you would any other friend, and go out and DATE. Even if its the most casual of friendly dates - be in the company of other females: movies, coffee - 'safe' dates. Not the drinking/casual sex route, but the friendly 'go out and have fun' sort of stuff. You don't have to let her know you are dating - the purpose isn't to date in order to let her know you are dating - this needs to be time for you to date in general. You don't have to go and fall in love, or 'get your mind' off of her - just move away and see what happens naturally. You never know - you may just end up meeting someone who will give you a higher priority. Thanks, Lucrezia. As always, this is another outstanding post from you. I will follow your advice to the letter - in fact, I've printed it out. Lol. Making my e-mails gradually shorter and less-frequent is an excellent idea. Should I apply the same thinking to being online? We usually meet up online every night around the same time and talk for about an hour. I suppose becoming "busy" (hopefully for real) during this time period wouldn't be such a bad idea, either. I will talk to other people and fill my schedule other ways not because I want to, but because there's no other option for me. And it certainly won't hurt if someone or something can bump her down a few notches on the priority list. Something that is frequently preached on here is becoming a little more "mysterious", and I certainly can accomplish that by simply doing other things and not telling her what I'm up to all the time. She will be somewhat bothered by my newfound busy schedule, but like you said, she's the one who was very blunt about me not being # 1 on her list right now, so I can show her the same. This will be a little jarring to her, especially considering how excited/enthusiastic I have always been talking with her, etc., but I'm sure she'll live.
Marshbear Posted April 21, 2005 Posted April 21, 2005 Thanks for the nice words WhereSpiritsRoam! I would just be a casual friend, not to involved in her life, and always end the conversation first, leaving her wanting more. The frequency is up to you. As Lucrezia says, have other things in your life besides her. This should keep her interest level in you high (if she has it). I wouldn't wait for ever on her so if you don't see things progressing after a fashion find someone who really ants to be with you..
Author WhereSpiritsRoam Posted April 21, 2005 Author Posted April 21, 2005 Originally posted by ReluctantRomeo Yeah, it's difficult to do. And to strike the right balance. But measured disappearance is the way to go. Don't stop replying to her emails. Just write back less often. Don't make a big thing of it, but make sure she knows you're busy and having a great time - let her make the link to the reduced frequency of emailing. If she asks - by email or in person - the tone I would be tempted to take (what's your opinion, Marshbear?) is "of course we're still friends, I just haven't had the time this past week, what with the hot dates with Natasha and Helena and that crazy barbecue night with the guys on the beach. Boy am I tired today". Be truthful of course - this is just the tone I'd take. Measured disappearance it is, then. I usually reply right away, but I'll wait awhile now and make my replies shorter (but still friendly). She will probably ask what's up after awhile, but I don't know if my telling her that I'm going on dates, etc., is really the best thing to say (even if that's what I'm doing). I would rather just keep it general, like "Oh, I've just been busy hanging out with folks" or "I've been working late", etc. I'm thinking the fewer details about my absence, the better.
Author WhereSpiritsRoam Posted April 21, 2005 Author Posted April 21, 2005 Originally posted by Marshbear This should keep her interest level in you high (if she has it). I wouldn't wait for ever on her so if you don't see things progressing after a fashion find someone who really wants to be with you.. This girl has friends out the wazoo, so she's keeping me around for a reason. One of my good friends suspects she likes me a lot more than she's saying, but she obviously won't come out and say that unless she is ready to date again. I am always on the lookout for new people who want to be with me, but with the crap luck I've had lately, I'm looking to give the best effort on every prospect that comes my way. I'm not waiting for her by any means, but I want to give myself the best opportunity to possibly be with her one day. And if you all think dropping into the shadows is the best way to go, I'm going to trust your judgment.
Author WhereSpiritsRoam Posted April 21, 2005 Author Posted April 21, 2005 After a brief phase-out period, I'm thinking of just contacting her once or twice a week - and then only to ask about possibly getting together. Does a phone call every 3 or 4 days sound reasonable? She likes to e-mail, and while I will respond to her contact, I won't be sending many more long ones of my own.
Topaze Posted April 22, 2005 Posted April 22, 2005 Actually, phase outs work best if you let HER contact YOU. Wait 24 hours to respond to e-mails or voice mails. Keep e-mails short (2 sentences and to the point). Screen your calls. If you see it's her, let it go through to voice mail. Try to respond to her voice mails when you know she won't be in. Then you will have to leave a voice mail. Talk on the phone only occasionally but, for now, leave a two week gap before you do it again. In other words....give her a chance to miss you. Sometimes this work....sometimes it doesn't. Get out and date. When she asks "what's up" be honest. Say your feelings for her haven't changed but, at this stage of your life, you're ready for more than platonic friendships with women so you're getting out there, meeting as many people as possible and dating.
Author WhereSpiritsRoam Posted April 22, 2005 Author Posted April 22, 2005 Originally posted by Topaze Actually, phase outs work best if you let HER contact YOU. Wait 24 hours to respond to e-mails or voice mails. Keep e-mails short (2 sentences and to the point). Screen your calls. If you see it's her, let it go through to voice mail. Try to respond to her voice mails when you know she won't be in. Then you will have to leave a voice mail. Talk on the phone only occasionally but, for now, leave a two week gap before you do it again. In other words....give her a chance to miss you. Sometimes this work....sometimes it doesn't. Get out and date. When she asks "what's up" be honest. Say your feelings for her haven't changed but, at this stage of your life, you're ready for more than platonic friendships with women so you're getting out there, meeting as many people as possible and dating. Thanks for the post, Topaze. She will certainly contact me - probably once she becomes concerned that my contact is becoming less frequent. I think the real shock will come when my e-mails go from three pages to three sentences. I like the 24 hour thing - it's long enough to make it obvious that I'm not getting back to her right away, but not so long that she will think I'm mad at her, etc. My only concern is that if I tell her I'm dating other people (which I will do), she may assume that I have lost total interest in her, which I don't want happening. When girls who have liked me went out and started hanging out with other guys, I pretty much figured they weren't as hyped on me as they originally suggested.
Marshbear Posted April 22, 2005 Posted April 22, 2005 I would spend some time with her every once in a while ( like make a day of it ) so she knows your still into her. Then cut back and let her miss you. This should keep her wondering if your really into her or not ( women like mystery). If she starts asking what your doing or why she doesn't see you like she used to then you know your making progress....
Author WhereSpiritsRoam Posted April 22, 2005 Author Posted April 22, 2005 Originally posted by Marshbear I would spend some time with her every once in a while ( like make a day of it ) so she knows your still into her. Then cut back and let her miss you. This should keep her wondering if your really into her or not ( women like mystery). If she starts asking what your doing or why she doesn't see you like she used to then you know your making progress.... Thanks, marshbear. Becoming mysterious should be fairly easy. Just not writing as much, etc., will definitely do the trick. On top of that, I used to talk to her best friend a lot, and I will also cut way back on that. I want them to wonder if my interest is waning, and just when they think it is, I'll "reappear" for a short cameo and then vanish again for a bit. I REALLY hate having to play games like this, but they have proven effective for others in the past. As far my initiating contact, how does once a week for the sole purpose of hanging out sound? I basically want to eliminate to the "buddy" talk, as much as I enjoy our conversations.
Author WhereSpiritsRoam Posted April 23, 2005 Author Posted April 23, 2005 It's only been 36 hours and she's already called and e-mailed me, wondering where I am. She's online right now and I'm restraining myself from talking to her. I want her to think I'm out doing things and having fun. Since she wrote and called, should I respond to both tomorrow, or will just a brief phone call suffice?
LucreziaBorgia Posted April 23, 2005 Posted April 23, 2005 Maybe you could do a friendly but short reply to her email saying "sorry I missed your call, I was pretty busy today. I'll give you a call in the next few days if I can get some time, and maybe we can hang out or something. Take care, _______."
Three of Swords Posted April 23, 2005 Posted April 23, 2005 Originally posted by Marshbear I would spend some time with her every once in a while ( like make a day of it ) so she knows your still into her. Then cut back and let her miss you. This should keep her wondering if your really into her or not ( women like mystery). If she starts asking what your doing or why she doesn't see you like she used to then you know your making progress.... This type of behaviour is what is driving me insane about someone I would like to be with - and I do not like it one little bit. And instead of making me want him more, I am thinking he is not worth it. But then maybe he is not a fabulous as you
Author WhereSpiritsRoam Posted April 23, 2005 Author Posted April 23, 2005 A tornado came through my county last night, and she e-mailed me early this morning asking me to call her ASAP to see if I was ok. Given the circumstances, I called her right away. I will also briefly respond to her e-mail later, but then nothing again for a few days. Maybe an e-mail on Monday or Tuesday asking about dinner during the middle of the week? I thought it was really sweet that she wanted to check on me.
gd1039 Posted April 24, 2005 Posted April 24, 2005 I'm in a very similar situation to yours, so I know how you feel. While I do think that reducing contact could be beneficial, it may also do some harm. Absence makes the heart grow fonder, but it also makes the heart forget. She could see the reduced contact as meaning you aren't as interested in her anymore. Maybe she will try harder to get you then, or maybe she will say forget it and move on. I guess its all about finding the right balance of just how available and unavailable you should be. Since you were so available now, I say be more available than not. So, scale back somewhat, but if you find yourself always thinking "I can't seem available" you are avoiding her too much. good luck.
ReluctantRomeo Posted April 25, 2005 Posted April 25, 2005 Originally posted by Three of Swords This type of behaviour is what is driving me insane about someone I would like to be with - and I do not like it one little bit. And instead of making me want him more, I am thinking he is not worth it. But you're already hooked ... this one isn't.
Three of Swords Posted April 25, 2005 Posted April 25, 2005 Originally posted by ReluctantRomeo But you're already hooked ... this one isn't. Yeah - but diligently working on getting "unhooked". IMHO - he is NOT worth it.
ReluctantRomeo Posted April 25, 2005 Posted April 25, 2005 Originally posted by Three of Swords Yeah - but diligently working on getting "unhooked". Do you think it's maybe just that he has read a dating book which has told him to behave this way or he'll lose you? Or is it just natural?
Three of Swords Posted April 25, 2005 Posted April 25, 2005 Originally posted by ReluctantRomeo Do you think it's maybe just that he has read a dating book which has told him to behave this way or he'll lose you? Or is it just natural? I would say natural. But I have read a 'dating book' which says if he is not calling you He is just not that into you". So you see how this can become a bit of a conundrum/paradox!
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