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Posted
My xMM would say that I am "gift" to him. That he doesn't deserve me, that he is greedy and selfish where I'm concerned. At first, this all sounded romantic. But over time, it starts to feel different. Because therein lies the truth. Yours says you are an escape. and you are. a wonderful sweet escape. he will want to maintain that for as long as he can, because it works for him. Now he is back pedaling, to ratchet down your expectations. Probably fear of being caught, or having things get out of control.

 

Exactly!!! He even said he's afraid of things getting out of control.

 

How were you able to be affectionate in front of his BFF? Does the BFF know about your A? Maybe MM is worried about exposure there. In any case, the bottom line is that you are not getting what you deserve here. He won't protect your feelings or take care of you in this R, so you're going to have to do that for yourself.

 

Yes, his BFF knows. He trusts this guy with his life. He said he also has a lot of dirt on the BFF, so I think for a variety of reasons, he feels safe.

 

But the BFF is sometimes a little bit of a big mouth with inside jokes and innuendo, and at work, that can be dangerous... especially when there's someone else there who's friends with his W and has commented to him that she's noticed us spending a lot of time talking at work.

Posted
"Wait, what are you doing? You're okay with the lights on?"

 

"Oh Jesus, oh Jesus! OMG. What are you doing?!" when climbing on top of him or taking him in my mouth.

 

I mean, he isn't a freak. At all. But he acts like I am over pretty standard sex. He's like... genuinely AMAZED that I'm willing to have sex "outside the box." :confused: When he explains that his sex life "leaves a lot to be desired," he says we do things that his W is unwilling to do. He doesn't talk about her skills, just the acts themselves that aren't available to him, which aren't freaky.

 

He's talked about this in MC, telling her outright that what's lacking makes him attracted to other women who might be.

 

She blames porn.

 

We've watched porn together, and it's, again, pretty standard stuff. PIV, cowgirl. A blow job. Big whop.

 

This is why I believe him about his sex life being really vanilla. I think that might have a lot to do with him only having a couple partners as a teenager, and nothing new since.

 

I agree with you in that it does sound vanilla. There are some women who do blame porn, I am not one of those I actually think it helps sometimes. :D But I hear you. I just thought you should be careful. I agree with some of the others that have said the MM like to spin things in their favor.

  • Like 2
Posted
Exactly!!! He even said he's afraid of things getting out of control.

 

 

 

Yes, his BFF knows. He trusts this guy with his life. He said he also has a lot of dirt on the BFF, so I think for a variety of reasons, he feels safe.

 

But the BFF is sometimes a little bit of a big mouth with inside jokes and innuendo, and at work, that can be dangerous... especially when there's someone else there who's friends with his W and has commented to him that she's noticed us spending a lot of time talking at work.

 

that is a lot of exposure risk, and frankly, it shows a real lack of respect for his wife. I assume the BFF also hangs out with the BW sometimes? So he is making her look like even more of a chump in front of his BFF. It's hard to do, but try to consider it from her POV. It can really illuminate what kind of man he is when you view it through that lens. It's so fun to be able to be out in public together, you don't want to think about the dark side of the equation. You have to do that, though. It helps you move on.

 

My xMM never complained about the BW. Always said they were happily married and that he just happened to "love two women." When I stopped to think about it, it made me realize how selfish he was really being. She isn't even doing anything wrong, and he betrays her anyway? How could I ever trust him?

  • Like 2
Posted
He says that she'd never leave him, even if she found out. That's she's essentially said as much. She's literally begged in the past for him to not leave, even while accusing him of cheating (when he wasn't). He said he just doesn't want to hurt her, that being exposed would crush her. He's very protective of her feelings.

 

You're totally right about being able to go out without being in secret. We've done that in the past on overnight work trips, his BFF was even with us (we work with him too). That was awesome, to be able to be out in public and affectionate in front of people we know.

 

When you read your posts as an outsider and objectively one can see a lot of contradictions in the things your MM claims. For one thing a woman who is desperate to hold onto a man does not act like a cold fish in bed. If his wife suspects that he cheats on her and she still wants him then she is getting her freak on. If she is really the crappy lay he says she is then I doubt she is the one begging him to stay with her and it's more than likely him who is desperate to stay married.

 

 

Secondly the fact that he was so comfortable in outing you as his OW to his bff and other coworkers indicates that he is a practiced cheater and his bff knows him as such. You say that your job isn't just a job, it's a career that you have worked for. In that case it is not awesome that you went public with your affair during a work trip. You are damaging your reputation and making yourself look bad at work. Nobody at work will say anything to your face but you will lose their respect. I sure wouldn't count on your MM's bff to keep this secret. I feel like you are caught up in some sort of lala land right now and when this affair ends you will wish nobody you worked with ever knew about it. I think you need to take steps to end this just for the sake of your professional life.

  • Like 5
  • Author
Posted
that is a lot of exposure risk, and frankly, it shows a real lack of respect for his wife. I assume the BFF also hangs out with the BW sometimes? So he is making her look like even more of a chump in front of his BFF. It's hard to do, but try to consider it from her POV. It can really illuminate what kind of man he is when you view it through that lens. It's so fun to be able to be out in public together, you don't want to think about the dark side of the equation. You have to do that, though. It helps you move on.

 

My xMM never complained about the BW. Always said they were happily married and that he just happened to "love two women." When I stopped to think about it, it made me realize how selfish he was really being. She isn't even doing anything wrong, and he betrays her anyway? How could I ever trust him?

 

Yup, BFF has occasion to hang out with the W, albeit briefly. Sometimes he stays in their guest room! :eek:

 

I wouldn't say MM complains about his W so much as he complains about his entire situation. He's actually made a point of saying that she's a good person, and has noted that I have a distorted view of their M, as he's not talking about the good parts of their marriage, only the bad stuff, because most people focus on what's lacking instead of what's good. He's also said he's no angel and has his own issues that have contributed to how things currently are.

  • Author
Posted
When you read your posts as an outsider and objectively one can see a lot of contradictions in the things your MM claims. For one thing a woman who is desperate to hold onto a man does not act like a cold fish in bed. If his wife suspects that he cheats on her and she still wants him then she is getting her freak on. If she is really the crappy lay he says she is then I doubt she is the one begging him to stay with her and it's more than likely him who is desperate to stay married.

 

Meh. I acted like a disinterested fish in an ex-R that I was desperate to stay in. I didn't want to let him or the R go, I was scared of change, of being alone. But I had no attraction to him, for a number of reasons. I had no desire to please him, but I was desperate to make him stay.

 

The bolded doesn't make any sense.

 

That said, I've already said that he ended it to work on his marriage. So yeah, he wants to stay married.

 

 

Secondly the fact that he was so comfortable in outing you as his OW to his bff and other coworkers indicates that he is a practiced cheater and his bff knows him as such. You say that your job isn't just a job, it's a career that you have worked for. In that case it is not awesome that you went public with your affair during a work trip. You are damaging your reputation and making yourself look bad at work. Nobody at work will say anything to your face but you will lose their respect. I sure wouldn't count on your MM's bff to keep this secret. I feel like you are caught up in some sort of lala land right now and when this affair ends you will wish nobody you worked with ever knew about it. I think you need to take steps to end this just for the sake of your professional life.

 

A lot of assumptions here. There was no outing of us at work. The only person who knows ANYTHING about us is his BFF. The three of us were/and do go on work trips together, no one else is present.

Posted

Sorry for the assumption but your post said this: "That was awesome, to be able to be out in public and affectionate in front of people we know." which implied more than one person was with you as one doesn't usually refer to one person as people.

  • Author
Posted
Sorry for the assumption but your post said this: "That was awesome, to be able to be out in public and affectionate in front of people we know." which implied more than one person was with you as one doesn't usually refer to one person as people.

 

Only one PERSON we work with (his BFF), but people (plural) we each know on a non-work/personal only level, yes. The only work person who knows is his BFF. There's another coworker who's commented to him about him spending a lot of time talking to me, which made him nervous.

Posted

Well that should make you nervous too. You don't want people at work to know about this affair

  • Like 1
Posted
"Wait, what are you doing? You're okay with the lights on?"

 

"Oh Jesus, oh Jesus! OMG. What are you doing?!" when climbing on top of him or taking him in my mouth.

 

I mean, he isn't a freak. At all. But he acts like I am over pretty standard sex. He's like... genuinely AMAZED that I'm willing to have sex "outside the box." :confused: When he explains that his sex life "leaves a lot to be desired," he says we do things that his W is unwilling to do. He doesn't talk about her skills, just the acts themselves that aren't available to him, which aren't freaky.

 

Let me give you a guy's perspective here. No man on earth is that naive. If an 18-year old virgin boy is hooking up for the first time and his girl goes down on him to give him a blowjob, he doesn't act like a shocked school boy who doesn't know what is going on. He acts like its business as usual. A grown man in a low sex marriage isn't oblivious to the fact that women give blowjobs. Just because he isn't getting it doesn't mean his mind is erased of all knowledge of the existence of oral sex. And trust me that he knows a lot of people have sex with the lights on.

 

What your MM was doing to you was 100% an act for your benefit to boost your ego. He was directly propping you up and putting you on a pedestal above his lowly wife. By giving you positive reinforcement, he was taking steps to ensure that you keep doing what you are doing. He likes blowjobs. If he puts you into a competition with his wife who doesn't give blowjobs, you will always have an incentive to give him blowjobs to set yourself apart from his wife.

 

His "shock" in the middle of sex was simply him continuing to play the role. Trust me that a guy doesn't suddenly lose the ability to keep up a lie in the middle of sex.

  • Like 11
  • Author
Posted
Let me give you a guy's perspective here. No man on earth is that naive. If an 18-year old virgin boy is hooking up for the first time and his girl goes down on him to give him a blowjob, he doesn't act like a shocked school boy who doesn't know what is going on. He acts like its business as usual. A grown man in a low sex marriage isn't oblivious to the fact that women give blowjobs. Just because he isn't getting it doesn't mean his mind is erased of all knowledge of the existence of oral sex. And trust me that he knows a lot of people have sex with the lights on.

 

What your MM was doing to you was 100% an act for your benefit to boost your ego. He was directly propping you up and putting you on a pedestal above his lowly wife. By giving you positive reinforcement, he was taking steps to ensure that you keep doing what you are doing. He likes blowjobs. If he puts you into a competition with his wife who doesn't give blowjobs, you will always have an incentive to give him blowjobs to set yourself apart from his wife.

 

His "shock" in the middle of sex was simply him continuing to play the role. Trust me that a guy doesn't suddenly lose the ability to keep up a lie in the middle of sex.

 

I'm the one having sex with him, you're not. It's real, it's sincere, that he's not been getting anything but missionary at night in the dark on the weekends for a long time. LOL why is that so hard to believe?! He used to talk about this for years (among others, not just to me) around the watercooler, getting **** from the guys when he'd whine/complain, prior to anything ever happening when it was all strictly platonic. He's been dissatisfied with the specific sex acts available for YEARS. She recently indeed started giving him blow jobs after they entered MC and he said he's been tempted by other women bc of what's lacking, but now he resents them, because she's treating it like a chore, she's only giving them now because of the "threat."

  • Author
Posted
Well that should make you nervous too. You don't want people at work to know about this affair

 

In this place, rumors run rampant about everyone. They're fairly easy to deflect or ignore. If you're not allegedly screwing Bob today, you will be tomorrow. Or Tom, Dick, or Harry. All you gotta do is be seen talking in the hallway, and you're screwing.

 

But yes, I don't want anyone else to REALLY know.

Posted

I would take the words in Anika's initial post to heart.

 

Whether or not MM is setting you up to accept breadcrumbs intentionally or not, we don't know. But good grief, we have all seen this exact story play out time and time again. And unfortunately, many of us have experienced it ourselves.

 

We get into an affair (regrettably). It starts off all amazing and love and stuff. And then MM pulls back, feels guilty, starts acting differently. He ends it, saying he needs to 'do the right thing.' And then a week, or two, or three later, he comes back...I miss you, I can't be without you, blah, blah. Maybe it feels like old times, mostly. For a little bit. Then he pulls back again. More guilt. Tries to end it again. Then he misses you. This time he comes back again. You have sex. Then he goes quiet on you. You wonder what happened. After a few days, he's nice again, you have sex, then silence. And thus begins the push/pull, hot/cold, miserable cycle. Over time, you accept less and less, for a variety of reasons - maybe he'll change his mind; maybe you think this could even work for you too. You are unwittingly participating in this awful feedback mechanism, letting him know it's okay to treat you this way.

 

Some of us do this for months, even years.

 

Do yourself a favor and do NOT let him come back to you. Draw a line in the sand and don't participate. I don't hear in your tone that you are emotionally done with him. I think you'll take him back if he comes (unless I'm missing something). I'm just telling you that you shouldn't. And if you do, one day you'll look back and perhaps remember this advice you received on LoveShack and think damn, it's like they had a crystal ball or something. Wish I'd listened.

 

Not trying to be harsh. Just really crossing my fingers for you...

  • Like 9
  • Author
Posted
I would take the words in Anika's initial post to heart.

 

Whether or not MM is setting you up to accept breadcrumbs intentionally or not, we don't know. But good grief, we have all seen this exact story play out time and time again. And unfortunately, many of us have experienced it ourselves.

 

We get into an affair (regrettably). It starts off all amazing and love and stuff. And then MM pulls back, feels guilty, starts acting differently. He ends it, saying he needs to 'do the right thing.' And then a week, or two, or three later, he comes back...I miss you, I can't be without you, blah, blah. Maybe it feels like old times, mostly. For a little bit. Then he pulls back again. More guilt. Tries to end it again. Then he misses you. This time he comes back again. You have sex. Then he goes quiet on you. You wonder what happened. After a few days, he's nice again, you have sex, then silence. And thus begins the push/pull, hot/cold, miserable cycle. Over time, you accept less and less, for a variety of reasons - maybe he'll change his mind; maybe you think this could even work for you too. You are unwittingly participating in this awful feedback mechanism, letting him know it's okay to treat you this way.

 

Some of us do this for months, even years.

 

Do yourself a favor and do NOT let him come back to you. Draw a line in the sand and don't participate. I don't hear in your tone that you are emotionally done with him. I think you'll take him back if he comes (unless I'm missing something). I'm just telling you that you shouldn't. And if you do, one day you'll look back and perhaps remember this advice you received on LoveShack and think damn, it's like they had a crystal ball or something. Wish I'd listened.

 

Not trying to be harsh. Just really crossing my fingers for you...

 

You don't come across as harsh, and I'm taking her initial post to heart, too.

 

You're right that I'm not emotionally done with him. :/

 

I know myself. If he came back today, I'd have him back. The more time that passes, the less likely I'll be swayed. I'm actually quite thankful that he's out of the office the next two weeks, as seeing him is going to be what makes it hard, and even just two weeks will help me gain perspective.

 

And I have a feeling he feels the same. And if he's truly trying to repair his marriage, he's going to find it difficult to see me everyday. I wouldn't be surprised if he leaves here, eventually, because of that.

 

You know what's annoying? The "special" nature of an A. If a "regular" BF did this, and said he wanted to work on another relationship, or in some way suggested he wasn't fully invested in me, I'd bail. I've been cheated on before, and walked - quickly, no looking back. I wonder what's so different about this situation that makes me want to stay and deal...?

Posted
You don't come across as harsh, and I'm taking her initial post to heart, too.

 

You're right that I'm not emotionally done with him. :/

 

I know myself. If he came back today, I'd have him back. The more time that passes, the less likely I'll be swayed. I'm actually quite thankful that he's out of the office the next two weeks, as seeing him is going to be what makes it hard, and even just two weeks will help me gain perspective.

 

And I have a feeling he feels the same. And if he's truly trying to repair his marriage, he's going to find it difficult to see me everyday. I wouldn't be surprised if he leaves here, eventually, because of that.

 

You know what's annoying? The "special" nature of an A. If a "regular" BF did this, and said he wanted to work on another relationship, or in some way suggested he wasn't fully invested in me, I'd bail. I've been cheated on before, and walked - quickly, no looking back. I wonder what's so different about this situation that makes me want to stay and deal...?

 

Because the rules are different in an A! The expectations are different. You start off already knowing he belongs to someone else. Triangulation is in full effect. In a sense, you are competing for him. You may not consciously feel that way, but you are. He is even using that to his benefit when he makes those comparisons to his wife. It is a toxic, unhealthy relationship from day one.

 

I worked with my xMM and found it impossible to end it with him until I no longer worked there. Some other posters also worked with their MMs and have managed to continue to work with him even after ending it, but I think they will tell you it is NOT fun. I was forced to work very closely with xMM, so I had to leave. Besides, I'm married. Kinda different.

 

You should just know you are entering into what will be a very painful cycle. It won't be painful right away, because it will just feel good to be back with him. It will feel like the quickest path to relieve the pain you are currently in. But it will get there. There are some happy endings, but very, very few. Most of the time, it is better to choose to suffer in the present (in the hope of a better future) rather than bypass current suffering for immediate gratification...

  • Like 3
Posted
He said he wanted to try and make his marriage work, for the kids.

 

Really, what more is there to say?

  • Like 2
Posted
I'm the one having sex with him, you're not. It's real, it's sincere, that he's not been getting anything but missionary at night in the dark on the weekends for a long time. LOL why is that so hard to believe?! He used to talk about this for years (among others, not just to me) around the watercooler, getting **** from the guys when he'd whine/complain, prior to anything ever happening when it was all strictly platonic. He's been dissatisfied with the specific sex acts available for YEARS. She recently indeed started giving him blow jobs after they entered MC and he said he's been tempted by other women bc of what's lacking, but now he resents them, because she's treating it like a chore, she's only giving them now because of the "threat."

I don't doubt that he is isn't getting a satisfactory amount of sex (both from a quantity and quality standpoint) from his wife. My point is that even if the guy hadn't been touched by another woman for 20 years, the faux shock and surprise that he showed you was a load of crap. I understand that out of the two of us, you are living and breathing this story so you have a huge advantage on me in trying to ascertain the truth, but keep in mind that sometimes it is much easier for an independent, outside observer to recognize the truth than a person deeply involved.

  • Like 5
  • Author
Posted
Really, what more is there to say?

 

So I'm not allowed to talk about this situation, because he ended it for this reason? Is that what you're suggesting?

  • Like 1
  • Author
Posted
I don't doubt that he is isn't getting a satisfactory amount of sex (both from a quantity and quality standpoint) from his wife. My point is that even if the guy hadn't been touched by another woman for 20 years, the faux shock and surprise that he showed you was a load of crap. I understand that out of the two of us, you are living and breathing this story so you have a huge advantage on me in trying to ascertain the truth, but keep in mind that sometimes it is much easier for an independent, outside observer to recognize the truth than a person deeply involved.

 

Nope. Please stop trying to make your reality mine. What you call "faux shock" was sincere excitement and a thrill of what he's truly not getting at home - not in quantity of sex, but in type of sex acts. You weren't there. You telling me that he's getting these sex acts on the regular is what's crap. He has no complaint about quantity, at all. And he's told me that.

 

He has no reason to lie about what he does with his wife. He's not claiming to be sexless.

Posted

By the way, there's only a very subtle level of dishonesty and manipulation going on with your MM's reaction to your bedroom activities. Straightforward, honest responses would be something like, "Wow, that feels great. It's been forever since I've felt that and I forgot how wonderful it can be" and "I love the fact that we're keeping the light on--at home, my wife always makes me shut the light off."

 

Now, unless your MM was simply being sarcastic, his pseudo shock at your actions are dishonest. It's an indirect way of communicating what I've written above but in a slightly dishonest manner that typifies a passive-aggressive, conflict-avoidant and manipulative personality.

  • Like 2
  • Author
Posted
Because the rules are different in an A! The expectations are different. You start off already knowing he belongs to someone else. Triangulation is in full effect. In a sense, you are competing for him. You may not consciously feel that way, but you are. He is even using that to his benefit when he makes those comparisons to his wife. It is a toxic, unhealthy relationship from day one.

 

I worked with my xMM and found it impossible to end it with him until I no longer worked there. Some other posters also worked with their MMs and have managed to continue to work with him even after ending it, but I think they will tell you it is NOT fun. I was forced to work very closely with xMM, so I had to leave. Besides, I'm married. Kinda different.

 

You should just know you are entering into what will be a very painful cycle. It won't be painful right away, because it will just feel good to be back with him. It will feel like the quickest path to relieve the pain you are currently in. But it will get there. There are some happy endings, but very, very few. Most of the time, it is better to choose to suffer in the present (in the hope of a better future) rather than bypass current suffering for immediate gratification...

 

Sometimes I feel like I'm competing, and other times I feel like she and I are both screwed. I'm everything she isn't, and vice versa. I have some pluses in my column, but so does she - ostensibly more meaningful pluses at that (20 years together, children, history). She could easily compete with me by taking over my pluses; I can never take over hers. If there's a competition, I know she'll win every time.

 

The last paragraph sounds like addiction, and I have at times felt addicted to him. Other than changing workplaces (won't be my doing, he might be able to leave though, but it won't be a quick and easy move), what do you suggest in terms of avoiding the cycle? Just hold firm if he returns?

Posted
Nope. Please stop trying to make your reality mine. What you call "faux shock" was sincere excitement and a thrill of what he's truly not getting at home - not in quantity of sex, but in type of sex acts. You weren't there. You telling me that he's getting these sex acts on the regular is what's crap. He has no complaint about quantity, at all. And he's told me that.

 

He has no reason to lie about what he does with his wife. He's not claiming to be sexless.

I'm not now nor have I ever argued with you about the quantity or type of sex your MM is having with his wife. I'm agreeing with you that your MM is being perfectly honest with you about his sex life at home. No disagreement. What I'm saying is that this:

"Wait, what are you doing? You're okay with the lights on?" is either a guy being sarcastic or putting on a weird act where he thinks all women want the light off during sex. I'm telling you no guy is so dense that he would believe that just because his old lady was boring in the sack that all women in the world are th same way. In fact, it's just the opposite. Married men sit around and get resentful and upset because they know that there are tons and tons of women who would love to do all sorts of fun crazy stuff in bed and they are stuck with plain Jane wife who won't do anything but begrudging vanilla in bed.

  • Like 3
Posted

I can't speak specifically about an A but in my relationship with my last serious boyfriend, we did the whole break up/get back together thing like 4 times. I always ended up devastated. It didn't end until I refused to get sucked back in. It was about a year of horrible depression and anxiety. I blocked his number, email address, Facebook etc.

It truly is the only way to get over someone and move on with your life.

  • Author
Posted
I'm not now nor have I ever argued with you about the quantity or type of sex your MM is having with his wife. I'm agreeing with you that your MM is being perfectly honest with you about his sex life at home. No disagreement. What I'm saying is that this:

"Wait, what are you doing? You're okay with the lights on?" is either a guy being sarcastic or putting on a weird act where he thinks all women want the light off during sex. I'm telling you no guy is so dense that he would believe that just because his old lady was boring in the sack that all women in the world are th same way. In fact, it's just the opposite. Married men sit around and get resentful and upset because they know that there are tons and tons of women who would love to do all sorts of fun crazy stuff in bed and they are stuck with plain Jane wife who won't do anything but begrudging vanilla in bed.

 

You don't speak for all men. Sorry.

 

If you don't disagree and don't think he's lying about his sex life, then what's the point of your posts if not to challenge/contest whether or not he's having the type of sex that he/I say he is? He's not acting. He's got no reason to, as I jumped into this with eyes wide open and under no disillusionment of what was on the table. He was dissatisfied and "wanted to experience things he hasn't experienced before." I've had guys react the very way he did - back when I was 17-21 and sexing sexually inexperienced guys. A lot of "oh god, oh god!" as in "I can't believe this **** actually happens!" This dude may have a lot of sex in quantity, but his experience in terms of variety of acts/types is pretty slim.

 

The guy is a goofy dork, in an adorable way. Our first few times together, he was nervous as all get out, actually shaking.

 

As friends, he REGULARLY said "I understand women don't like" this or that (blow jobs, cum in her mouth, riding cowboy, anal, sex in the daylight), that seeing those acts in porn was a fantasy, that women don't actually enjoy doing those things. He spoke for all women the way you are trying to speak for all men now. How/why he's under that impression, I can only assume to be his W's doing.

  • Like 1
  • Author
Posted
I can't speak specifically about an A but in my relationship with my last serious boyfriend, we did the whole break up/get back together thing like 4 times. I always ended up devastated. It didn't end until I refused to get sucked back in. It was about a year of horrible depression and anxiety. I blocked his number, email address, Facebook etc.

It truly is the only way to get over someone and move on with your life.

 

In my normal relationships, I've never taken them back. Not once.

 

And yet here, I know I will, if he comes back soon enough... I don't want to, but I know I will.

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