spiderowl Posted May 2, 2015 Posted May 2, 2015 I've been out to a music event this evening where people were playing and singing. I played my instrument too (I want to keep this as anonymous as possible hence not specifying instrument). I do play sometimes at music sessions and sometimes people come up to me afterwards and make nice comments. Of course this is very gratifying even though I'm always a bit surprised they took the trouble. Quite often, they are strangers or people I don't know very well. A new guy was there this evening who seemed known by several others and apparently he supports stars at top venues. For example, one of the places he played at recently was the Royal Albert Hall in London. He played and he was clearly a good singer and musician. Afterwards, he came up to me and commented on my playing, saying 'I wish I could play the **** as well as you.' This isn't the first time that someone I consider to be very accomplished has come and spoken to me afterwards. To date I've had nice comments from people I consider to be top local musicians and a local radio DJ who manages bands. Bear in mind I am not seeking comments, these people walk over to me because they want to say something. It's wonderful and a real boost I must admit. I don't mention this to boast (well, not much ) but for another reason. Some guys come up to me after I've played and say nice things - well they all say nice things - but there is a tendency for some to start advising me too. How to play this, how to tune up, how loud to play, etc. I can always learn something new, that's true, but I can't imagine guys going up to another guy, who they've already acknowledged is a good player, and starting to give him advice. Why do they do this? While I'm sure they mean well, I cannot fathom why some can't resist doing this. It really does make me feel dispirited about them. There is one guy who seems really nice and we've had interesting talks before but tonight he did the same thing, started giving advice. I suddenly found myself feeling quite annoyed and this must have shown because he suddenly changed tack and looked bit crestfallen. I don't want to feel annoyed, it just suddenly hit me, and I'm sure no-one wants to annoy another musician. I'm baffled that guys do this. It seems such a paternalistic attitude. I am quite petite, so I guess this might have something to do with it, but I suspect it's because I'm female and somehow invading a male preserve? What do you think?
preraph Posted May 2, 2015 Posted May 2, 2015 I came from a music culture and business. All I can tell you is that musicians never tire of talking about music. Never. It's rare they can find someone to have an intelligent conversation about it. It's even more rare if that someone is a woman. Some of them are probably interested in you both musically and as a woman. You shouldn't be insulted by it unless someone is just thoughtless and arrogant and criticizing. And of course, we all know there are no arrogant musicians! But honestly, I found my niche as a non-player simply by being intelligent about the craft and expert on the music. I could and did give advice even as a nonmusician because I was an expert ear in many ways. I never got any negative kickback about it, and in fact, made many friends that way. I wasn 't above telling the mixing board to turn up or turn down something or telling a musician he wasn't being mixed prominently enough and that type thing. But usually I kept it to what little bit of the music in particular or lyric I thought was really good. Enjoy it. Musicians live and breathe music. For the really good ones, it's not even a choice. They have to do it.
blackcat777 Posted May 2, 2015 Posted May 2, 2015 Sometimes guys will give instruction to appear knowledgeable/alpha in order to impress a pretty girl. Might be instinctive, even. 2
jen1447 Posted May 2, 2015 Posted May 2, 2015 Can I ask what genre of music you perform? I think it could have an impact on the explanation.
Author spiderowl Posted May 2, 2015 Author Posted May 2, 2015 Thanks, it does puzzle me. I don't presume to advise them on their craft unless they ask me something specifically, though I will tell them I liked what they played. Sadly, I can't claim to be pretty so I don't think it's that I play acoustic music, no amplification.
Phoe Posted May 2, 2015 Posted May 2, 2015 I agree with Jen that the genre may play a role, as well as even the instrument. I'm a classical flautist and while I have had compliments on my performances, I've never had anyone presume to tell me how to play. I can imagine it growing irritating, like you said. Sorry spiderowl
Author spiderowl Posted May 2, 2015 Author Posted May 2, 2015 I agree with Jen that the genre may play a role, as well as even the instrument. I'm a classical flautist and while I have had compliments on my performances, I've never had anyone presume to tell me how to play. I can imagine it growing irritating, like you said. Sorry spiderowl Thanks Phoe. No worries, usually it washes over me but it's particularly annoying if I like the guy because then suddenly I see him in a different light as someone who doesn't respect me. The guy I mentioned above actually can't play anywhere near as well and he knows it, so starting to advise me seems disrespectful.
jen1447 Posted May 3, 2015 Posted May 3, 2015 Some guys come up to me after I've played and say nice things - well they all say nice things - but there is a tendency for some to start advising me too. How to play this, how to tune up, how loud to play, etc. I can always learn something new, that's true, but I can't imagine guys going up to another guy, who they've already acknowledged is a good player, and starting to give him advice. Why do they do this? While I'm sure they mean well, I cannot fathom why some can't resist doing this. It really does make me feel dispirited about them. There is one guy who seems really nice and we've had interesting talks before but tonight he did the same thing, started giving advice. I suddenly found myself feeling quite annoyed and this must have shown because he suddenly changed tack and looked bit crestfallen. I don't want to feel annoyed, it just suddenly hit me, and I'm sure no-one wants to annoy another musician. I'm baffled that guys do this. It seems such a paternalistic attitude. I am quite petite, so I guess this might have something to do with it, but I suspect it's because I'm female and somehow invading a male preserve? What do you think? I play acoustic music, no amplification. I'm not a musician, but I've seen this in the wild before, tho I have to say I haven't seen it limited to men giving tips to women. I was going to say that if you played a classical instrument, it might be a bit more legit in that I think there's more of a classroom/textbook mentality to classical performances than others. If that were the case, it seems like it might be more of a genuine desire to 'help' due to fraternity. BUT, I think in more cases it's actually a defensive or insecure reaction. Many musicians seem to be rather competitive. Not necessarily mean-spirited, just competitive. Given that and maybe a bit of a genuine desire to see others improve, giving lessons (unwelcome as they may be) becomes an easy method to 'flex' and an outlet to try to show some superiority. By instructing someone, you show superiority, and if you're going around feeling inferior in general, that could be a welcome sensation. It's not hard to do in music, because there's such a wide variety of skill sets, and a variance within those skill sets that's not necessarily always linear. So it's easy to find something you know about something that someone else doesn't, or just a way the two of you do it differently. The nature of the insecurities could vary a lot too - poor (relatively) performer, frustrated songwriter, frustrated artist who doesn't believe they get the recognition they deserve, good performer who doesn't understand production well and thus always sounds bad anyway, etc. But the advice can always be given under the light of helping, so it's a safe haven. They may even do it unconsciously, or at least not really intend to hurt anyone with it. And there may be others who are just so into it they can't stop themselves, like literature buffs who want to tell you which authors to read and which books of theirs to ignore rather than let you decide/discover for yourself. I'm a classical flautist and while I have had compliments on my performances, I've never had anyone presume to tell me how to play. @Phoe - I'm impressed! 1
StanMusial Posted May 3, 2015 Posted May 3, 2015 Please click one of the Quick Reply icons in the posts above to activate Quick Reply. 1
Phoe Posted May 3, 2015 Posted May 3, 2015 Thanks Phoe. No worries, usually it washes over me but it's particularly annoying if I like the guy because then suddenly I see him in a different light as someone who doesn't respect me. The guy I mentioned above actually can't play anywhere near as well and he knows it, so starting to advise me seems disrespectful. I'd guess there is an intimidation factor... if you're leaps and bounds more talented and these other musicians can see it, they might try to make themselves appear to be more knowledgeable than they really are, try to play themselves up a bit by being able to "give advice" to someone who is quite good. Might quite simply be an inability to be humble and appreciative of someone who is quite talented. Admitting that you just plain did a great job and that's that, is too difficult.
lgspot Posted May 3, 2015 Posted May 3, 2015 Those that can DO, those that can't --- give advice... Seems we have the beginnings of a LoveShack orchestra... :)
StanMusial Posted May 3, 2015 Posted May 3, 2015 Please click one of the Quick Reply icons in the posts above to activate Quick Reply. I don't know what happened there but what I meant to say was, "Maybe he was trying to help."
Author spiderowl Posted May 4, 2015 Author Posted May 4, 2015 Thanks all, I have no idea what's going on but maybe it's feeling inadequate or a desire to help, I really don't know. Perhaps I'm being oversensitive. I'm not a brilliant player but in the recent case I had two comments - one from a guy I thought played very well (and has professional experience) and he made a genuine compliment, and the other from the guy who plays a fairly standard and repetitive accompaniment and he started giving advice. It does feel a bit like an 'I'll look after you little girl' type message. I'm so unappreciative aren't I? Great to hear you play too Phoe. I started learning classical, and I do like it, but it does get too perfectionist for me.
Male Posted May 4, 2015 Posted May 4, 2015 I'm baffled that guys do this. It seems such a paternalistic attitude. I am quite petite, so I guess this might have something to do with it, but I suspect it's because I'm female and somehow invading a male preserve? What do you think? Probably the same reason when women visits my home for the first time, they always have to give me advice/critique my furnishings throughout the house.
thefooloftheyear Posted May 4, 2015 Posted May 4, 2015 Its no different than the idiots who try to give people advice on workout regimens, training and exercise and diet, when they look a thousand times worse than you do.... Its insecurity... TFY 1
Mr Scorpio Posted May 4, 2015 Posted May 4, 2015 There is no shortage of egotistical musicians in the world. And given that music isn't typically an objective battlefield like sports, everyone can have an opinion on what is the "best" way to do something. A humble gentleman would compliment your playing and then ask you for advice on how you played such passage, what scale you used, etc. Others will first compliment you but then try to get one over on you. I think you have two options. Either learn to not be bothered by it, or start challenging these people to a duel right then and there. Bet your soul against theirs and see what they have to say then. 1
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