yaWgnorW Posted May 1, 2015 Posted May 1, 2015 (edited) Hi everyone, I've looked around and did find similar threads of course, but I still wanted to put mine down here and throw myself to the wolves. I've been dating this girl for 3 months. Just for reference I'm 30, shes 27. We both had been reasonably single for roughly a year before hand; only dating here and there, nothing that ever made it past a few dates. We have told eachother of our most recent 'dates' and 'flings' or whatever. Of course we have a history of bad breakups and broken trust, who doesn't. Her 5 year relationship ended horribly and was the last major relationship. She has hinted at issues stemming from that, but who knows. We started seeing each other the first 3 weeks on weekends only. The 3rd week was our first overnight, and after that 3 week mark we started seeing each other during the week, and once again see each other on average 4 days during a work week (usually just skipping Monday), at a minimum no less than 3 days a week, only to repeat the weekend again. In the last 9 weeks of 12 total, we've spent every weekend together nearly entirely, a few hours here and there to go home and clean up. We typically talk on the days we do not see each other. I've been to family events, such as birthday dinners and an Easter dinner, regular dinners etc. We are pretty close when alone together, and that comfort seems to grow each week. Some point around the end of the 1st month we talked about being exclusive and not seeing anyone else, but of course didn't establish it as being official (too soon, and I agree with that). Today (3 months or so) I talked with her about becoming official, boyfriend/girlfriend etc. She said she "liked how things were" and "didn't really want to change it and put a title on it". I didn't really poke around to much here. Her one question was "what would change if we did?" Truthfully nothing of course would change, but it depends what side your on where that matters. We then reconfirmed about our being exclusive, despite not having the title. We ended the conversation on that note. Slight curve ball, late one night she received a text from a friend/former short fling asking if she was single (weeks ago). She stated she was 'seeing someone but wasn't official'. Now, the conversation halted there with her giving him tips on dating, so I didn't think anything of it because well, it wasn't a lie necessarily and the relevant part didn't go further. Thinking back I find it interesting that if we don't require a title yet, that it is necessary to state we 'aren't official'. Anyway, one final note, I do get the strong impression she does not tell certain friends much about me, if at all how close we are. It isn't required of course, but it may become concerning. I know what exclusive is, in that it pretty much means your 'official', but I guess if you don't state it's an official relationship yet, then it isn't. I know what this points too, but I'd like other opinions. Is she just keeping me around until something better comes along, or maybe keeping options open? Is she still trying to find a connection still? She doesn't really have the time to 'look for' or 'consider' anyone else considering how much time we spend together. If that was to change, I'd start thinking otherwise. What does this sound like? And, more importantly, I want to bring this up to her again soon, not asking to be official but asking for a better reason. I could use some help with what to ask her, because I'm having trouble forming the questions. Edited May 1, 2015 by yaWgnorW Clarification
fitnessfan365 Posted May 1, 2015 Posted May 1, 2015 I don't think she takes you seriously man. If she genuinely liked you, she would have said "I'm seeing someone" and that's it. But the fact that she stressed that it wasn't official was her way of saying it's not serious and that she's still single. To a guy she used to have sex with no less. So if she still isn't feeling it after three months, she probably won't be anytime soon and is just enjoying the ride. Looks like you're living a real life version of 500 Days of Summer. 2
Author yaWgnorW Posted May 1, 2015 Author Posted May 1, 2015 Interesting comparison. I do agree, that if she did like me 'enough' she wouldn't have said 'but we aren't official'. Thanks for the response. I want to bring stuff up to her again this weekend. Any suggestions on how to approach it / more importantly what to ask exactly? I mean, the straight up "do you take me seriously" could be to much.
neowulf Posted May 1, 2015 Posted May 1, 2015 Interesting comparison. I do agree, that if she did like me 'enough' she wouldn't have said 'but we aren't official'. Thanks for the response. I want to bring stuff up to her again this weekend. Any suggestions on how to approach it / more importantly what to ask exactly? I mean, the straight up "do you take me seriously" could be to much. Just sit down and matter of factly explain the situation isn't working for you. You want something more serious, you need to know if that's something she wants. If she "umms and ahhs" about it, walk. That last bit is key. If you can't come to agreement that works for both of you, you're just wasting time and setting yourself up for resentment.
ascendotum Posted May 1, 2015 Posted May 1, 2015 Is she just keeping me around until something better comes along, or maybe keeping options open? Is she still trying to find a connection still?In answer to your questions, I would suspect the answer is yes to the first question more then the 2nd one. We don't know what her normal style is when it comes to relationships, whether she's the type that loves the instant chemistry and dives in, or likes to take it slow and make sure about a person because she hates break ups and the last one was a bad one (tho it was a yr ago). With that other fling guy, she left the door open for him, so maybe the fling would have become more if she had her way before. If you agreed on exclusivity then you'd hope she sticks to it and doesn't try to loophole her way around it but the breakup will be easier for her if it happens in the summer. It wouldn't phase me too much if it wasn't officially declared at 3 mths, but if I felt the woman wasn't all in then I'd want to clarify it so I was on the same page emotionally.
Gottabestrong Posted May 1, 2015 Posted May 1, 2015 Hmm, it sounds to me like she is not sure about you and whether you two are a long-term match. She seems to be happy to date you exclusively - as she probably would not have the time to see others anyway - but she does not want to commit, in case she does meet someone else, or simply decides to end this. If you had been only dating for a month or so, I would say don't worry and give it time, but after 3 months and seeing each other nearly daily! I think this is concerning. Why are you guys seeing each other this much anyway? Do you not spend evenings apart to be with friends, family, hobbies, etc.? I know whenever I have seen a guy more than three times a week, it was because I was absolutely crazy about him and would definitely love to be called his girlfriend, it does not sound like she feels that way. How does she react if you suggest spending a day or night apart, when you usually are together? My advice would be to have another conversation with her like you suggest, and try to get a better explanation for why she does not want to be official. Good luck!
RedRobin Posted May 1, 2015 Posted May 1, 2015 She already told you what her investment is in the relationship. She is willing to have sex with just you, but is clearly keeping her options open. If it were me, I'd take that as my answer and pull the plug ASAP so that you can be available for someone who is looking for a relationship. I don't see any point in having any more conversations with her about it. Tell her thanks for her honesty, and break up with her... then stick to your guns if she tries to suck you in with sex... unless you are sure you are ok with it being casual. 1
Guitarisgood Posted May 1, 2015 Posted May 1, 2015 My assumption is you're not going to break up with her. The others are right, she may not take you more seriously. Hence, it's time to do what you should have been doing in the first place. 1) Not spend as much time with her 2) Spend more time networking and going out socially; heck don't be afraid of talking to girls - friendly competition never hurt no one (don't tell me girls don't do the same at times) 3) Having your own hobbies you'd put above her You do this to make her see that YOU are a great catch and it's up to her to lose you. This isn't about playing games. Rather, it is time you stop investing so much time in her if she does not reciprocate. 3
Author yaWgnorW Posted May 1, 2015 Author Posted May 1, 2015 Just sit down and matter of factly explain the situation isn't working for you. You want something more serious, you need to know if that's something she wants. If she "umms and ahhs" about it, walk. That last bit is key. If you can't come to agreement that works for both of you, you're just wasting time and setting yourself up for resentment. Thanks for the response. She isn't the type to umm and ahh, but I think she would struggle to find a reason if she doesn't immediately come out being honest. I'll have to come out explaining it isn't working for me like that. In answer to your questions, I would suspect the answer is yes to the first question more then the 2nd one. We don't know what her normal style is when it comes to relationships, whether she's the type that loves the instant chemistry and dives in, or likes to take it slow and make sure about a person because she hates break ups and the last one was a bad one (tho it was a yr ago). With that other fling guy, she left the door open for him, so maybe the fling would have become more if she had her way before. If you agreed on exclusivity then you'd hope she sticks to it and doesn't try to loophole her way around it but the breakup will be easier for her if it happens in the summer. It wouldn't phase me too much if it wasn't officially declared at 3 mths, but if I felt the woman wasn't all in then I'd want to clarify it so I was on the same page emotionally. Normally, at 3 months it wouldnt phase me as much either; however the amount of time we spend throws this ratio off. It isn't a two-three times a week thing, but a 5-6 times. I believe her normal style is actually taking this slow, but maybe this is something i should find out. As far as the 'loophole', i think I understand what you mean; basically the idea of not actually being official would, in theory, make a break up or split easier. Thanks! Hmm, it sounds to me like she is not sure about you and whether you two are a long-term match. She seems to be happy to date you exclusively - as she probably would not have the time to see others anyway - but she does not want to commit, in case she does meet someone else, or simply decides to end this. If you had been only dating for a month or so, I would say don't worry and give it time, but after 3 months and seeing each other nearly daily! I think this is concerning. Why are you guys seeing each other this much anyway? Do you not spend evenings apart to be with friends, family, hobbies, etc.? I know whenever I have seen a guy more than three times a week, it was because I was absolutely crazy about him and would definitely love to be called his girlfriend, it does not sound like she feels that way. How does she react if you suggest spending a day or night apart, when you usually are together? My advice would be to have another conversation with her like you suggest, and try to get a better explanation for why she does not want to be official. Good luck! Thanks for this response. I'm going to have the conversation with her this weekend, just to try to understand it more. I'll decide from there what to do. As far as your questions, to be fair, my good friends live a good distance away, so our plans are always 'arranged' and special occasions. She is more local, and has 'minor' friends, but doesn't really have any serious friends that she talks to regularly. When we do have nights apart, there isn't much of a reaction on either of our parts. We realize we spend a ton of time together, so a night apart during the work week is just treated as whatever. She already told you what her investment is in the relationship. She is willing to have sex with just you, but is clearly keeping her options open. If it were me, I'd take that as my answer and pull the plug ASAP so that you can be available for someone who is looking for a relationship. I don't see any point in having any more conversations with her about it. Tell her thanks for her honesty, and break up with her... then stick to your guns if she tries to suck you in with sex... unless you are sure you are ok with it being casual. Everyone seems to be leaning that she is keeping her options open. I do intend to talk to her regardless about it again this weekend, while the previous conversation last night is still fresh in mind. I think I want to come out and just say what I think, and ask if she is keeping options open. We'll see, thanks! My assumption is you're not going to break up with her. The others are right, she may not take you more seriously. Hence, it's time to do what you should have been doing in the first place. 1) Not spend as much time with her 2) Spend more time networking and going out socially; heck don't be afraid of talking to girls - friendly competition never hurt no one (don't tell me girls don't do the same at times) 3) Having your own hobbies you'd put above her You do this to make her see that YOU are a great catch and it's up to her to lose you. This isn't about playing games. Rather, it is time you stop investing so much time in her if she does not reciprocate. I think this solution may be good after the conversation I intend to have with her. I agree maybe some time apart would be good, just as much as it could back fire; but thats the point, to open my door too. I think I'll be trying to find out if she does take me seriously or not, and if she is keeping options open when we talk. That will determine how I approach it, be it break up or whatever. Thanks!
Frank2thepoint Posted May 1, 2015 Posted May 1, 2015 And, more importantly, I want to bring this up to her again soon, not asking to be official but asking for a better reason. The reason why you want to bring this up to her again is because you want the relationship to solidify and be official. You want to be her boyfriend and she your girlfriend. Don't fool yourself. As others have said, she is keeping her options open until she finds someone she can call a boyfriend. The moment that happens, she will drop you. If you're going to talk to her again, then I suggest you express your intentions of wanting to be in a relationship. If she doesn't agree, then let her go. Seriously, break it off with her immediately. I'm saying this because I already know where this is heading for you. If you keep participating in this farce, she'll just drag you along until she finds someone she is willing to call a boyfriend or she just gets bored with you. During this time, it'll bother you to no end that you guys are not official, and she will hurt you. If you know for sure that you want more from her, then it's best to cut her out of your life. 2
Redhead14 Posted May 1, 2015 Posted May 1, 2015 Hi everyone, I've looked around and did find similar threads of course, but I still wanted to put mine down here and throw myself to the wolves. I've been dating this girl for 3 months. Just for reference I'm 30, shes 27. We both had been reasonably single for roughly a year before hand; only dating here and there, nothing that ever made it past a few dates. We have told eachother of our most recent 'dates' and 'flings' or whatever. Of course we have a history of bad breakups and broken trust, who doesn't. Her 5 year relationship ended horribly and was the last major relationship. She has hinted at issues stemming from that, but who knows. We started seeing each other the first 3 weeks on weekends only. The 3rd week was our first overnight, and after that 3 week mark we started seeing each other during the week, and once again see each other on average 4 days during a work week (usually just skipping Monday), at a minimum no less than 3 days a week, only to repeat the weekend again. In the last 9 weeks of 12 total, we've spent every weekend together nearly entirely, a few hours here and there to go home and clean up. We typically talk on the days we do not see each other. I've been to family events, such as birthday dinners and an Easter dinner, regular dinners etc. We are pretty close when alone together, and that comfort seems to grow each week. Some point around the end of the 1st month we talked about being exclusive and not seeing anyone else, but of course didn't establish it as being official (too soon, and I agree with that). Today (3 months or so) I talked with her about becoming official, boyfriend/girlfriend etc. She said she "liked how things were" and "didn't really want to change it and put a title on it". I didn't really poke around to much here. Her one question was "what would change if we did?" Truthfully nothing of course would change, but it depends what side your on where that matters. We then reconfirmed about our being exclusive, despite not having the title. We ended the conversation on that note. Slight curve ball, late one night she received a text from a friend/former short fling asking if she was single (weeks ago). She stated she was 'seeing someone but wasn't official'. Now, the conversation halted there with her giving him tips on dating, so I didn't think anything of it because well, it wasn't a lie necessarily and the relevant part didn't go further. Thinking back I find it interesting that if we don't require a title yet, that it is necessary to state we 'aren't official'. Anyway, one final note, I do get the strong impression she does not tell certain friends much about me, if at all how close we are. It isn't required of course, but it may become concerning. I know what exclusive is, in that it pretty much means your 'official', but I guess if you don't state it's an official relationship yet, then it isn't. I know what this points too, but I'd like other opinions. Is she just keeping me around until something better comes along, or maybe keeping options open? Is she still trying to find a connection still? She doesn't really have the time to 'look for' or 'consider' anyone else considering how much time we spend together. If that was to change, I'd start thinking otherwise. What does this sound like? And, more importantly, I want to bring this up to her again soon, not asking to be official but asking for a better reason. I could use some help with what to ask her, because I'm having trouble forming the questions. Some people will agree to "exclusivity" but only as far as being sexual. They agree to only be sexual with that person but will continue to date others until the point where they decide to be sexual with another person. If they are "honorable", they would have to tell the first one that they are moving on. Technically, if they've found someone else they want to be sexual with, it would mean that they like the next one better. Some people feel that exclusivity means boyfriend and girlfriend. If you date in stages, stage 1 is dating without intimacy. Stage 2 is exclusivity which is intended to allow both parties to focus on each other for a period of time to further evaluate compatibility including on an intimate level. Stage 3 is boyfriend/girlfriend. Stage 4 is marriage. So, it appears to me that she wants to be sexually exclusive with you and doesn't view it as boyfriend and girlfriend. Some people would view exclusivity as a limbo period and kinda like an FWB situation and hopefully temporary. Technically almost all couples who are dating and have become intimate and not yet at the boyfriend girlfriend stage are in an FWB position anyway for a while.
PegNosePete Posted May 1, 2015 Posted May 1, 2015 She said she "liked how things were" and "didn't really want to change it and put a title on it". I didn't really poke around to much here. Her one question was "what would change if we did?" She contradicts herself. Says she doesn't want it to change anything, and then says it would change nothing. My response to her question would have been, "nothing would change, so there's no reason not to". From her reluctance and contradictory reasoning it sounds like she's not very invested in you or your relationship. And from her text to the ex-fling it sounds like she is keeping her options open. I would bail, or at least prepare yourself for the end.
Author yaWgnorW Posted May 1, 2015 Author Posted May 1, 2015 The reason why you want to bring this up to her again is because you want the relationship to solidify and be official. You want to be her boyfriend and she your girlfriend. Don't fool yourself. As others have said, she is keeping her options open until she finds someone she can call a boyfriend. The moment that happens, she will drop you. If you're going to talk to her again, then I suggest you express your intentions of wanting to be in a relationship. If she doesn't agree, then let her go. Seriously, break it off with her immediately. I'm saying this because I already know where this is heading for you. If you keep participating in this farce, she'll just drag you along until she finds someone she is willing to call a boyfriend or she just gets bored with you. During this time, it'll bother you to no end that you guys are not official, and she will hurt you. If you know for sure that you want more from her, then it's best to cut her out of your life. Thanks for calling it as it was. Yes, at this point I do want something more with her. I'll be suggesting my intentions along with what I think she is doing with her this weekend. I'm not afraid to break it off and protect myself. I may be giving that impression, but if I was afraid to protect myself I wouldn't be speaking to her again to fully understand. Some people will agree to "exclusivity" but only as far as being sexual. They agree to only be sexual with that person but will continue to date others until the point where they decide to be sexual with another person. If they are "honorable", they would have to tell the first one that they are moving on. Technically, if they've found someone else they want to be sexual with, it would mean that they like the next one better. Some people feel that exclusivity means boyfriend and girlfriend. If you date in stages, stage 1 is dating without intimacy. Stage 2 is exclusivity which is intended to allow both parties to focus on each other for a period of time to further evaluate compatibility including on an intimate level. Stage 3 is boyfriend/girlfriend. Stage 4 is marriage. So, it appears to me that she wants to be sexually exclusive with you and doesn't view it as boyfriend and girlfriend. Some people would view exclusivity as a limbo period and kinda like an FWB situation and hopefully temporary. Technically almost all couples who are dating and have become intimate and not yet at the boyfriend girlfriend stage are in an FWB position anyway for a while. Well, you definitely provided a more positive thought regarding all of this, at least that is how I'm reading it. So, we're in this stage 2, which makes sense. That I can accept. Her keeping options open as she may be is something I don't like. I guess I'll be finding, or working to find out more this weekend. Thanks! She contradicts herself. Says she doesn't want it to change anything, and then says it would change nothing. My response to her question would have been, "nothing would change, so there's no reason not to". From her reluctance and contradictory reasoning it sounds like she's not very invested in you or your relationship. And from her text to the ex-fling it sounds like she is keeping her options open. I would bail, or at least prepare yourself for the end. Thanks, I actually hadnt thought about her contradicting herself. I almost didn't want to bring up the ex-fling, but I'm glad I did now that everyone is discussing it as the most telling sign she isn't invested or taking me serious. Don't get me wrong, of course I didn't like it at all when I read "but its not official", who in my position would? But after there wasn't a continuation of it beyond discussing dating tips. I think I tried focusing on that nothing happened after that line. Like I said, I'll ensure to carry out the conversation to the fullest this weekend, try to draw out some different responses from her that may lead to the truth. Honestly I don't expect it to go well, but we'll see. I won't drop her until I bring this up again.
Duplantier Posted May 1, 2015 Posted May 1, 2015 I was in the same situation as you. She could not give me a clear answer so I bailed. If she can´t give you an answer when you have spent that much time together I would run and never look back. Felt like **** the first 2 weeks but now I am much better (1 1/2 months of NC). I know the feeling bro. Stay strong.
SawtoothMars Posted May 1, 2015 Posted May 1, 2015 The only reason I can think of that someone would want exclusivity, but not a title is that they want to continue dating. I suppose it's possible that she is afraid the title will create expectations and responsibilities, but she already shot that idea down herself.
PogoStick Posted May 1, 2015 Posted May 1, 2015 A counter argument: Her motivation might not be to date other people, but that she doesn't want a serious relationship. Maybe she likes being with you, having sex, and just doesn't want more out of any relationship. That can be common at her age and after a difficult relationship. The fact that you are having sex and spending tons of time together signals that she's happy with the current situation.
PogoStick Posted May 1, 2015 Posted May 1, 2015 I was in the same situation as you. She could not give me a clear answer so I bailed. If she can´t give you an answer when you have spent that much time together I would run and never look back. That depends on what he wants out of the relationship. Does he want something more serious and leading to LONG term? Or can he enjoy a more casual relationship where they go on dates and have sex but it doesn't progress into anything more. That's how my relationships have been in recent years because I'm not very settled. I've been moving every year or two for employment reasons and I don't want the burden of dragging a girl with me. Although I'm honest with my intentions, stating that I'll probably be moving away in a year and assume the relationship will be ending down the road.
Redhead14 Posted May 1, 2015 Posted May 1, 2015 Ask her what exclusivity means to her. As I said above, some people consider exclusivity to be the boyfriend/girlfriend stage. Some people consider exclusivity the point at which they are intimate with only one person while still casually dating others and not intimate with them. It's a matter of the two of you being on the same page with that. Stop guessing and ask her.
losangelena Posted May 1, 2015 Posted May 1, 2015 I would refrain from asking her anything and instead state very matter of factly what you want out of this situation. If she's not on the same page and it bothers you, then break it off. That sounds like a lot of time together at three months. My BF and I don't see each other that often at 8 months. At most we see each other four days out of seven.
fitnessfan365 Posted May 1, 2015 Posted May 1, 2015 At most we see each other four days out of seven. I think that four days a week is ideal. Often enough for regular contact and a healthy sex life, while leaving room for separate lives and interests.When you're attached at the hip seven days a week, co-dependency develops.
Guitarisgood Posted May 1, 2015 Posted May 1, 2015 I think this solution may be good after the conversation I intend to have with her. I agree maybe some time apart would be good, just as much as it could back fire; but thats the point, to open my door too. I think I'll be trying to find out if she does take me seriously or not, and if she is keeping options open when we talk. That will determine how I approach it, be it break up or whatever. Thanks! No need to talk to her. She's made it very clear where she stands. Stop talking and start doing. I.e. don't need to spend as much time with her. Pick up a new hobby or go out with friends instead. If you talk to her, you give her ammunition to argue back and lets face it, a guy never wins in an arguement with a chick Soon she'll get the message and IF particularly so you really do start changing for the better, she may start chasing and want to become exclusive seeing the more YOU you. Obviously don't treat her any different. Just don't spend as much time with her i.e. investment.
chantos Posted May 1, 2015 Posted May 1, 2015 I'm not sure you're getting the exact point, though. The problem is you're being too available and she's losing attraction. You're not attracting her correctly, so it's not really her fault for getting bored and keeping her options open. And pressing her for a relationship is the exact opposite of what you need to be doing if you want a relationship with her. It hints at desperation, which pushes her away. *You* are supposed to be limiting your interactions with her. It take two to tango. You keep repeating that you intend to talk to her about it this weekend. Realize that if you do so, you will either leave that conversation single, or be single shortly thereafter. If you want her to be your girlfriend stop seeing her every day and make sure she's wanting to be with you more than you are wanting to be with her. Very simple.
RedRobin Posted May 2, 2015 Posted May 2, 2015 ^^ A bit of the above, yes. But I'm not into playing games and the above sounds a bit like game playing What I do believe in is reciprocity. I'm also a person who tends to lean towards a 'one last conversation' approach just to make double dog sure that our paths truly are not converging. But here's the catch on that... lots of people are happy to provide some wishy washy language so they can keep getting something for nothing. Nothing meaning your needs being met. Your needs aren't being met. You've already stated what your needs are, if I'm not mistaken. Perhaps it is worth one more conversation, but meh, I'm not seeing it. Move along, is my advice. You can do it the slow fade way, or the 'was nice to know you and this isn't what I'm looking for' way. Sounds like she's a slow fade or monkey brancher style. I'm happy to push those people out the door. Me personally, I have no time for fence sitters. I'll give people some reasonable time. a month to three... then I'm moving on if I or they are less than 100%. won't be anyone's FWB. But that is just me.
chantos Posted May 2, 2015 Posted May 2, 2015 ^^ A bit of the above, yes. But I'm not into playing games and the above sounds a bit like game playing What I do believe in is reciprocity. I'm also a person who tends to lean towards a 'one last conversation' approach just to make double dog sure that our paths truly are not converging. But here's the catch on that... lots of people are happy to provide some wishy washy language so they can keep getting something for nothing. Nothing meaning your needs being met. Your needs aren't being met. You've already stated what your needs are, if I'm not mistaken. Perhaps it is worth one more conversation, but meh, I'm not seeing it. Move along, is my advice. You can do it the slow fade way, or the 'was nice to know you and this isn't what I'm looking for' way. Sounds like she's a slow fade or monkey brancher style. I'm happy to push those people out the door. Me personally, I have no time for fence sitters. I'll give people some reasonable time. a month to three... then I'm moving on if I or they are less than 100%. won't be anyone's FWB. But that is just me. Haha, if a girl wanted to be my exclusive girlfriend after knowing her only one to three months I'd head for the hills! Different strokes...
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