katiegrl Posted May 1, 2015 Posted May 1, 2015 alpha, if you want the physical intimacy to escalate, then YOU escalate it! I don't quite get why you think it's up to her. SHE is probably thinking the same thing about you...why hasn't he kissed me, I know he likes me and thinks I'm beautiful, but is he "attracted to" to me? Next time you are out together, escalate it. Not in an overtly aggressive way (although "some" women DO respond positively to that ...lol), but in your own way, whatever you are comfortable with. What I'm saying is, if you feel like kissing her, then kiss her!!! Right? What's holding you back from doing that? I don't understand...,.
Author alpha99 Posted May 1, 2015 Author Posted May 1, 2015 yeah, I guess I have to escalate things if that's what I want. It is traditionally seen as the man's role isn't it. I know I'm harping on here but I am just confused. Yes, she initiated contact early on, and yes we have been on three dates in a week, but despite that she replies slowly with very brief messages and I feel like I am initiating contact more. Maybe she just doesn't like texting? Since we met just over two weeks ago she has not been a heavy texter. She replies slowly with brief messages. Even when initiating contact after a great second date she just wrote how's you. I replied and that led her to inviting me out somewhere...but I just couldn't make it at that time. When we've gone out though she is far livelier though, although as I say without much initiation of anything. I know that may be my job but I would expect a sign that she would like me to do something. Maybe I have missed the signs, or maybe there haven't been any. Again, she's very confident, smiley, chatty, laughing, joking with me, but without any real intimacy. On our first date we sat right in the back corner of the cinema on the back row, but she sat with her feet on the chairs in a pose that would have been awkward to kiss her from. On our last (3rd) date so far I leaned in closer to her and spoke to her throughout the film but she seemed focused on the film. At one point I noticed her breathing quite heavily and deeply as I was slowly moving towards her. She leaned forward shortly after. I couldn't tell whether this was to focus on the film or to allow me to stroke her back or something. Like a dufus I just sat there getting quite close to her without doing much. I suppose the plan of action is like one of the replies I've gotten, keep asking her out, see if she is receptive when I try to escalate things, and if appropriate tell her that I think she's beautiful etc and see how things go from there, maybe leading to a kiss. We'll see what happens this evening but tomorrow is her birthday and there will be fewer people out, so that's maybe the time to attempt a kiss etc.
hunk Posted May 1, 2015 Posted May 1, 2015 Male, my point was not one claiming you need to hide who you fundamentally are or pretend to be someone else to get women. It was simply an argument around attraction, which has nothing to do with "what women like", it's what PEOPLE in general like and are drawn to and attracted to. People like to chase people they are interested in, people like uncertainty in the early stages of dating because it creates mystery which is ATTRACTIVE. This isn't game playing it's just how we work. I don't know why this is the case - but it's the case. There is a process and game to dating that gets completely tossed aside when feelings are thrown out in the open too early. The game is attractive and is what allows two people to become interested in eachother so eventually the walls come down and games don't need to be played and they can both just be real. Unfortunately being real and telling a woman you like them early on will just get you nowhere - it has one of two results - the woman is turned off because the uncertainty / thrill of the chase is dead, or she says "i like you too" (attraction is still lost even in this case). I agree with FF, as men we can show women we like them through our actions, we don't have to tell them. Obviously when the time comes and we're looking to become exclusive etc then yes there's nothing to lose telling a woman you like them, but by this point they would probably already know anyway. In my eyes, there really isn't ANYTHING to gain from telling a woman you like her and alot to lose - this is just how society and people are. The last time I told a girl i liked her I was 16:D:D:D:D, but the last time i told a girl i LOVED her was a few weeks ago.
hunk Posted May 1, 2015 Posted May 1, 2015 and Alpha definitely kiss her tomorrow. No need for the gushy compliments, just go and have fun with her, have a few drinks and flirt your a$$ off, be a genuine fun and good guy. Don't focus on trying to kiss her just let it happen, because if you allow it to it will. I guarantee the opportunity will come up when it's just you and her, you're talking about something stupid and you both pause and just look at eachother - you strike then. Swift and clean, no hesitation. Devour her face, clean her throat with your tongue, polish her trachea, smack her on the bottom and neck 4 beers in succession afterwards i promise she'll be impressed and aroused
katiegrl Posted May 1, 2015 Posted May 1, 2015 (edited) hunk, I realize I am very different from most women, but I love it when a man has enough confidence in himself to be that straightforward with me -- "Katie, I'm really attracted to you and would love to get to know you better. Are you free for dinner tomorrow night?". Then he waits for my response. A man having THAT much confidence would actually increase my interest level, assuming I had interest in him to begin with. Which interest would NOT be determined by how much *uncertainty* I felt, but how much chemistry there was between us and good positive energy. Many other women I associate with are the same, but we are not 20 something's, we are in our 30s. Maybe that's the difference. Edited May 1, 2015 by katiegrl 1
Gary S Posted May 1, 2015 Posted May 1, 2015 This woman was really into you, making dates and taking the lead. But now her interest is waning. Do you know why? - because you have not gone for the first big kiss yet! If you don't kiss a woman by the third date, she can start loosing interest. That first big kiss is one of the biggest moves you will ever make in a relationship, but you have to man up and do it. The kiss is the catalyst which takes the relationship to the next stage. 1
Redhead14 Posted May 1, 2015 Posted May 1, 2015 I was worried I'd missed the boat. - Ships run on a schedule, dating and dating partners do not necessarily have a schedule. It's about letting things happen naturally not when you want them to
Gary S Posted May 1, 2015 Posted May 1, 2015 Yeah, but the boat is leaving the dock, he's about to miss it!
katiegrl Posted May 1, 2015 Posted May 1, 2015 Yeah, but the boat is leaving the dock, he's about to miss it! +1000 .... and Bon Voyage!
Author alpha99 Posted May 2, 2015 Author Posted May 2, 2015 I went out to a social gathering last night. This girl was due to go. She was texting me throughout the evening asking where I was, who was there etc, but she had gone to meet 'a friend'. She texts me later on to say she's drunk. We meet up (with others) late on in the evening. Her friend is male. We chat briefly, have drinks etc but she was nore focused on her friend. I think on a previous date she said she'd known him a long time and there's nothing to it, but they danced pretty closely whilst out. They never kissed but I wondered whether there's more going on than she has said. Anyway, I got home, asked if she was fine, said her and her friend looked quite the couple and that I didn't want to step on any toes. She replied saying she was home, was sorry for the evening, and that I wasn't stepping on toes, she was just drunk/having fun. We've texted today, she said she really hopes I'm OK, sorry for last night, and how hungover she is. The thing is so far our dates as I've said have been great but lacking intimacy. Last night I saw another side to her, she was drunk, looser, dancing etc. We danced and i tried to kiss her but she wasn't really paying attention. I don't know but i don't think the friend and her have anything going on. Out tonight again with her. In our texts back and forth after the night out I said how much I like her and asked if i was barking up the wrong tree due to her friend. I think tonight is the night. We'll be out together from the start, fewer people, and now I've seen her drunk Ive seen another side to her that may be up for a kiss. Her apology and not stepping on toes comment seems to have left the door open. I'll try for a kiss this evening.
Author alpha99 Posted May 4, 2015 Author Posted May 4, 2015 OK, a little update...is it time to move on? We didn't end up going out for the birthday night out. She said everyone cancelled and she was still rough from the night before. Of course that may be perfectly true but then again the thought crosses your mind that maybe she just didn't want me to go out. The night before certainly was a heavy one and I didn't personally feel like another session but of course would have gone since it was her birthday. I don't know what to think over that. Anyway, we've texted a little back and forth over the last day or two, although as ever she takes an age to reply back to texts.... hold that thought, as I wrote the last line she has just replied to my last text. I don't know if she just isn't interested, playing it cool, just busy or what? I asked if she's having a nice day, what's she up to. She replied and asked about me... When we've gone out we've got on great, like I wrote in the last message she was texting me throughout the night out the other night asking where I was etc, but things are moving at a snail's pace. Again, I don't mind moving slowly if it's going somewhere but it's hard to tell. I don't want to seem to pushy after only a few dates, but she is gorgeous and don't want to let this chance slip away. It's a bank holiday today so I know she ain't working. I think I might ask her out for this evening, maybe calling her to do so. What do you guys think? Just as a side note, a friend I met on the night out the other night who doesn't know this girl and only saw her briefly said he thought she looked like she'd be a lot of hard work...that's proving to be right! lol
hunk Posted May 4, 2015 Posted May 4, 2015 It's weird she didn't suggest another time to meet up after blowing off the party, but maybe don't read too much into that. If I were you i'd be leaving it and letting her put some work in to even things out but that's just me. You have nothing to lose calling her if that's what you feel like doing. Just know that you have shown sufficient amount of interest for her to know that you're definitely interested and keen on her and it probably wouldn't hurt dropping off. My gut feeling about this one is her interest level might not really be there, whether that's due to the lack of physical escalation or whatever. By sitting back you will get an answer - if she's interested you'll hear from her, if not then you know she wasn't that keen to begin with. Forget about her being gorgeous, just treat her like any other woman. You don't wanna be putting in all the work. This is just my personal opinion and how I usually deal with these situations, people will say to be more aggressive and pursue her harder but in my experience this rarely leads to the outcome you want. Women make it pretty obvious when they're into you.
Author alpha99 Posted May 4, 2015 Author Posted May 4, 2015 Hi Hunk, Thanks for the comments, I think you might have hit the nail on the head. She initiated contact to begin with, suggested first date, then initiated contact after second date, agreed to third date. All went well in my opinion. The friday night out she texted throughout the evening but when we met up only spoke briefly. she apologised the next day via text. As I wrote before, I said I didn't want to step on anyone's toes. She said I wasn't in her reply. That would seem positive, right? She has not actually said she likes me (I've told her I like her via text) but at the same time does eventually reply to texts and again, has previously initiated contact and gone on three dates. I think I've seen her in one form or another about 6 times in the last 2.5 weeks. That might seem a lot but three of those were group social occasions, including the first time I met her. In the few weeks I've known her, even when she has initiated contact, her texts are brief and her responses slow - a contrast to her personality and behaviour when we're out. Speaking of which, when we're out she doesn't use her phone at all really. Maybe she is just not a big phone user. Maybe I'm looking for reasons despite the potential obvious - she ain't that into me. My confusion is over someone who gets on great with me when we're out - and I don't think she's being polite or whatever, we have laughed, joked, talked about past Rs, she's made comments like 'funny what life turns up sometimes' etc indicating big time she was happy she contacted me initially - but someone who is very slow in responding in text. She replies quickly when a date is imminent and we are planning where to meet, what to do etc, but day to day general texts are slowly responded to. Maybe she likes being chased and likes the attention. Maybe she just ain't interested and is being polite (but why the dates and meet up texts even up to 2/3 days ago). Maybe she ain't a big phone user. Maybe there's a million other reasons (a current family problem). I guess other comments are true, if she was interested she would make the time to get back to me. But if she is expecting to be chased and I do pull back she may lose total interest. what am I to do? Only the matter of a few days ago on our last date she was hinting big time for 'someone' to help her out with a weekend activity. I offered and she seemed made up although that never materialised in the end. Why drop big hints about spending a lot of time together only to not bother following it up. True, she might be into someone else or whatever. Arghh it's been a long time since I've dated, and it wasn't like this. If she wasn't such a stunner it wouldn't be worth the hassle, but I'd like to keep seeing her. Of course I don't want to chase and be a pest if she ain't interested. Why can't a women just say clearly what she wants? All these confusing signs drive you crazy. In my last text I said what I was up to today and asked if she has plans. She's gone out for a bit (possibly without phone) so haven't been expecting an immediate reply. I won't text again today unless she contacts me. If she does I'll call her back a short while after and seek to arrange a date. I think I'll get a clearer idea of her feelings over the phone by hearing her voice than just a short text message. Arghhhhh!!!!
hunk Posted May 4, 2015 Posted May 4, 2015 I think seeing her 6 times with no kiss is a big issue. I know it's not your fault, you haven't been put in the position where you've really been able to. But it's still affected the dynamic of your interactions. It sounds like you're sliding / have slid into the friend zone - you haven't been aggressive enough in your early dates, meaning you haven't been the one to take the lead (it's fine to responsibility here - you set up a date, she sets up the next etc) but it seems like she's done alot of the work. Since she was the one doing the work, on the dates you should be the one trying to escalate things physically. You need to kind of shift things back into your control - so she's not the one doing everything from setting up the dates to controlling the level of intimacy etc. You gotta kind of just go for it and assume since she's essentially asked you out that she's attracted to you and into you, so you assume the role as the man and show her. This can't be done via text i'm afraid and is actually counter-productive - it just looks weak. She'll be thinking "well, i've asked him out, he hasn't made any moves, and now he's telling me he likes me via a text message ... no thanks" I've made the mistake of being too intimidated by a beautiful woman when i'm on a date with them to initiate touching, but you need to do it. Women sense this insecurity and they know it's because they're beautiful and consequently the power is shifted and you just end up looking insecure and unsure of yourself. After what you typed just now i'm gonna actually say you need to call her up and be EXTREMELY assertive. Have something planned, tell her you're going and you want her to come. NO texting, from now on out stop messaging her entirely. Your focus now is sexual escalation not any talk about feelings. It's possible this is salvageable but I feel like the ship may have sailed. Either way I think you definitely should call her and assess.
Author alpha99 Posted May 4, 2015 Author Posted May 4, 2015 (edited) Hello again Hunk, in the six times I've seen her since meeting, first time: social occasion, just met her, second time: at a gig she invited me to, third time: first date, fourth time: my birthday (nice, quite romantic meal), fifth time: third date, sixth time: briefly on night out (she was really drunk). Each date has ended with hug/peck on cheek. She's a confident woman and I guess I have felt a little intimated by her intelligence and beauty, but at the same time I've held my own in the conversations we've had. I think you're right. trying to step outside myself and look at it, it seems her initial interest has waned due to me not stepping up to the plate. I thought last weekend would provide a chance to rectify that but it didn't due to not meeting up til late, her being really drunk, and then the next day being cancelled. My other big moment of letting it slip was probably the third date at the cinema. She was breating heavily at one point as I was slowlly moving my hand over to her. She sat forward and I didn't know whether it was a sign to stroke her back etc or she was just really into the film. Her breathing was really heavy though. I replicated it briefly in a subtle way to see if it felt a normal level to have just watching a film, and it seemed beyond that - maybe it was the anticipation of something happening - I dont know, but the chance went and I did nothing (gutted!) I need to man up. I am going to call her and ask her out in a few minutes. At least that way there's no waiting on a text for a yes or no, or even not replying haha. As well, I think I'll be able to assess her voice to see for any reluctance or whether she's happy to go out again, whether she's been busy, or whatever the matter is. I won't be pushy at all but I will try and be assertive and confident. Wish me luck! Edited May 4, 2015 by alpha99
hunk Posted May 4, 2015 Posted May 4, 2015 Fantastic. Let us know how it goes, i'll give you feedback/objective interpretation
Author alpha99 Posted May 4, 2015 Author Posted May 4, 2015 OK, couldn't edit again but here's what I wanted to add: edit: OK, I've had a think about what I could potentially do this afternoon so I can mention it when calling. I'm just wondering whether to go into asking whether she sees anything happening, or save that for later down the line? should it simply just be asking her out for a date in the call or what?
Fhsjkfjrhsdh3646 Posted May 4, 2015 Posted May 4, 2015 I went out to a social gathering last night. This girl was due to go. She was texting me throughout the evening asking where I was, who was there etc, but she had gone to meet 'a friend'. She texts me later on to say she's drunk. We meet up (with others) late on in the evening. Her friend is male. We chat briefly, have drinks etc but she was nore focused on her friend. I think on a previous date she said she'd known him a long time and there's nothing to it, but they danced pretty closely whilst out. They never kissed but I wondered whether there's more going on than she has said. Anyway, I got home, asked if she was fine, said her and her friend looked quite the couple and that I didn't want to step on any toes. She replied saying she was home, was sorry for the evening, and that I wasn't stepping on toes, she was just drunk/having fun. We've texted today, she said she really hopes I'm OK, sorry for last night, and how hungover she is. The thing is so far our dates as I've said have been great but lacking intimacy. Last night I saw another side to her, she was drunk, looser, dancing etc. We danced and i tried to kiss her but she wasn't really paying attention. I don't know but i don't think the friend and her have anything going on. Out tonight again with her. In our texts back and forth after the night out I said how much I like her and asked if i was barking up the wrong tree due to her friend. I think tonight is the night. We'll be out together from the start, fewer people, and now I've seen her drunk Ive seen another side to her that may be up for a kiss. Her apology and not stepping on toes comment seems to have left the door open. I'll try for a kiss this evening. I'm going to stop you here before I read anymore. While her behavior wasnt the greatest, you telling her that she and her friend looked like a couple and you were backing out was a terrible move. While you shouldn't have put up with that crap there, there's nothing good about complaining to her afterwards. You came off as needy, no confidence, and you gave up too easy. How is she going to view you as a Man if you curl up into the fetal position if she has a guy friend around? Keep in mind you two aren't even exclusive yet, so you should act accordingly. You should read everything you've written so far so you realize how bad you screwed the pooch on this one.... Sorry op but try another girl.
hunk Posted May 4, 2015 Posted May 4, 2015 Definitely don't ask anything like that. Find something interesting, an exhibit, a new bar, whatever - tell her you're going and you want to see her and would like her to come. This call is about setting up a date. You need to come off casual and fun with no mention of liking her/the future etc. "hey, what's up? how've you been? Hey look i was thinking, I really wanna go to this new bar in X/really wanna check out this exhibition/ and was wondering if you'd want to come? We could grab a drink and something to eat aswell. Awesome, alright I was thinking around 6 - does that work for you? Sweet! I'll see you then!"
hunk Posted May 4, 2015 Posted May 4, 2015 (i'm also inclined to agree with barcode but you really need to make this phone call)
Fhsjkfjrhsdh3646 Posted May 4, 2015 Posted May 4, 2015 Texting seems dry and boring. Never make plans the day of. Never invite yourself to the activity she needs help with, being at her beck and call is borderline friend zone. OP I wouldn't call, I would go read up on how to interact with Women before you sabotage things further. You're making the mistake of getting obsessed with this girl.
Author alpha99 Posted May 4, 2015 Author Posted May 4, 2015 Thanks the advice I actually did call about an hour ago or so before seeing any more messages here. Straight to VM. I left a brief message. She does take a while to reply...but that's it - no more contact from me until I hear from her. I wouldnt say I'm obsessed. I've texted her probably twice a day the last few days, hardly overdoing it. She does reply...slowly, and thats what I don't get, whether she just aint interested or whether she ain't a big phone user. It appears more now to be the former. Is it common for a girl to just ignore a date request rather than get back to hou to turn you down. In her last text, before I then asked her out, she said she was doing something but that thing seems a short activity. Don't want to be too explicit in detail here but it seemed like an hours worth of work stuff. She's been slow accepting dates previously so we'll see, tho I'm not holding my breathe anymore lol. Never mind, it looks like time to move on...unless she gets back pretty sharpish
Fhsjkfjrhsdh3646 Posted May 4, 2015 Posted May 4, 2015 Op the first way you're going to get better with women is realization. You ARE obsessed. You're holding your breath for this girl, and daily contact 3 dates in is too much. Keep it every 3 days minimum, process should look like this: 1. Go on a date. 2. Develop a connection/attraction 3. Setup the next date (immediately at end of night or within 2 days) 4. Hold off on contact until next date except occasional witty banter. Rinse repeat. Women want to have fun, but don't want to be smothered. I'm sure this girl can feel you bearing down on her. Leaving a voicemail is unnecessary, and really too much if her interest level is borededline. You need to gauge a woman's interest and level of contact, and mirror it. If you go faster than her, she'll get scared away. If she's not letting you set up a date, you're in the friend zone also pal. You can't get out, it's quicksand.
hunk Posted May 4, 2015 Posted May 4, 2015 Yeah, time to drop this one. It's done. You've done all you can do now. To be blunt, ya blew it. But you need to re-read over this whole thread and really understand and internalize WHY you blew it, that's the only way you're going to be able to move forward and not repeat these mistakes. We can't type them up for you, you gotta be the one to study it yourself. You made the call, now you COMPLETELY forget this unless she calls you back and only if she calls you back.
Fhsjkfjrhsdh3646 Posted May 4, 2015 Posted May 4, 2015 Yup, all you can do now OP is go dark on her and reset (and that's a long shot). Re engage her in a week and be flirty and work up from there. If she contacts you first, gauge her interest level and respond accordingly, don't pounce. You need to pull back a bit so she doesn't feel smothered. Honestly though I'd chalk this one up as a learning experience and move on.
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