No contact isn't yet possible... what do I do? I feel so unresolved. [update]

[tylerj]

You guys are right.

 

I was feeling really down earlier, but she's shown her true colours just now.

 

She sent me an email saying she will pay the rent but will not contribute to any of the joint bills and commitments e.g. Sky that we have committed to.

 

I believe she is legally obliged on anything where she is named.

 

She's making it messy for no apparent reason.

 

I've had the kick I need. I deserve better.

[tylerj]

To add to the above, I found my charger cable for my Wii U last night behind the sofa, in two pieces, clearly cut by scissors or something similar.

 

What is up with that?

 

I have never ever been malicious towards her and it just seems I'm uncovering a layer of spite from nowhere.

[tylerj]

Can anyone advise on how to handle this seeminly malicious behaviour.

 

Like I said before, I can't avoid contact until bills/rent/tax/possessions are sorted out, but her being such a bitch about it is making it really, really hard.

 

I had a viewing on a place today which is a really positive step for me, at least.

[Ruby65]

People work together, live together, even co-parent for years together while maintaining NC. You do this by setting up healthy boundaries -- both in your dealings with your ex and in your own mind (as in, there are certain lines you don't cross.)

 

So nope, you don't confront her about your Wii, you just get yourself another controller wire and let it go. Don't mention it to her. Figure out a way to handle the bills/rent in a way that minimizes contact. As much as you can afford to, let her off the hook financially.

 

It's worth it to you emotionally to minimize the need for contact and to drag out the financial involvement here.

 

Can you get a roommate to cover her part of the rent and bills, or are you dead-set on moving out of there as well ?

[PegNosePete]

I believe she is legally obliged on anything where she is named.

I wouldn't be so sure. Usually if something is in joint names the contract will say you are "jointly and severally" responsible. Which means you're both responsible for the full amount. The creditor can choose to chase either one of you, for the full amount. It does not mean "half each".

 

Can anyone advise on how to handle this seeminly malicious behaviour.

Do not allow her access to any belongings you hold dear to you. Take all important paperwork to work or a friend's. Be glad it's just a Wii controller, not something more expensive. Just bin it and don't get angry with her, that is what she wants.

[tylerj]

People work together, live together, even co-parent for years together while maintaining NC. You do this by setting up healthy boundaries -- both in your dealings with your ex and in your own mind (as in, there are certain lines you don't cross.)

 

So nope, you don't confront her about your Wii, you just get yourself another controller wire and let it go. Don't mention it to her. Figure out a way to handle the bills/rent in a way that minimizes contact. As much as you can afford to, let her off the hook financially.

 

It's worth it to you emotionally to minimize the need for contact and to drag out the financial involvement here.

 

Can you get a roommate to cover her part of the rent and bills, or are you dead-set on moving out of there as well ?

 

 

It is a one bedroom place, so shared living is not possible in that circumstance.

 

And I can't afford it alone, this area is expensive, and I barely get by when sharing the burden of all the bills.

[Ruby65]

Okay, then moving soon is a good plan.

 

But MOST important: creating and maintaining boundaries.

 

Both in your own mind, lines you won't cross.... and in limiting the number of contacts with your ex and being sure not to stray from logistic/monetary conversations... and only when really necessary.

[Chi townD]

Dude, get the logistics of the rent and the bills settled as quickly as possible. Here's the deal, you're probably a really great guy and she knows it. She also knows that you did deserve the way she's treating you. Therefore, she has to demonize you in her own mind. Make you the bad guy and rewrite your relationship history in order to ease her own guilt.

 

 

So, it's important that you get to NC as quickly as possible. All she's going to do is bring you down at this point.

[tylerj]

The situation is messed up.

 

There was enough money in the joint account to pay the rent but the gas/electric bills have bounced.

 

She is not responding to any of my communication (despite reading it).

 

This is going to reflect badly on both our credit ratings and she won't even reply to me.

 

What the hell am I supposed to do in this situation?

[elaine567]

The situation is messed up.

 

There was enough money in the joint account to pay the rent but the gas/electric bills have bounced.

 

She is not responding to any of my communication (despite reading it).

 

This is going to reflect badly on both our credit ratings and she won't even reply to me.

 

What the hell am I supposed to do in this situation?

 

Ask your family & friends to help you out and if you know her family well, then ask them to get through to her.

[tylerj]

She's making me really start to resent her. I've tried to sort out my living circumstances and I have found a place from the beginning of July, that I've applied for. She's trying to get out of paying anything:

 

"I fail to see any reason for you to delay moving out until July. Other opportunities will be available and if you wish to ignore them, then that is your right and should be at your cost. Any delay in departing on your part adds to other costs, and these can be reduced by your early departure, to the financial benefit of us both."

 

This completely ignores the fact that I will have to pay half of £825 to end the tenancy early, so moving early costs me more - I'm actually doing her a favour by moving.

 

Secondly, I've only responded to her emails, and she has the cheek to say:

 

"I need you to understand that I find the frequency, content and tone of your communications provocative. "

 

I have done nothing but be polite and factual

 

 

Separate to this, does anyone have any tips on how to deal with mornings? It's those where I feel saddest / most alone.

[hunk]

Yeah mornings are notoriously bad. The only thing you can really do is just get up and face the day. There's nothing else. Maybe try and get into a little routine, set up your alarm, get up NO MATTER WHAT, meditate or go for a walk. Either you do something like this or you stay in bed wanting to die. You make the choice. But yeah morning's ****ing suck, i'm with you there

[PegNosePete]

Sorry tyler I don't remember if you're married or not. This makes a very big difference in how you should proceed, legally. If you're married then I would certainly go and see a solicitor ASAP. Take with you all the details of the rent, bills, joint account, etc. Anything that you have to pay, may later be taken out of her half of the marital pot. It all depends on the facts and figures. A solicitor will be able to give you much more specialized information (and the free consultation is FREE so no reason not to do it!). Also a letter from a solicitor shows that you're serious about what you're saying. My ex refused to co-operate or respond to me directly but as soon as a solicitor was involved she suddenly started responding.

[tylerj]

Sorry tyler I don't remember if you're married or not. This makes a very big difference in how you should proceed, legally. If you're married then I would certainly go and see a solicitor ASAP. Take with you all the details of the rent, bills, joint account, etc. Anything that you have to pay, may later be taken out of her half of the marital pot. It all depends on the facts and figures. A solicitor will be able to give you much more specialized information (and the free consultation is FREE so no reason not to do it!). Also a letter from a solicitor shows that you're serious about what you're saying. My ex refused to co-operate or respond to me directly but as soon as a solicitor was involved she suddenly started responding.

 

In some ways I'm feeling pretty fortunate we're not married.

 

However, she has become pretty petty for no apparent reason - taking some joint possessions (although leaving the others in the property with me).

 

After she emailed me outlining her intentions (to not pay any of the joint bills which are set up against our joint account), I said I'd need to take legal advice.

 

She then responded stating she believes she's been threatened with legal action and that my behaviour has been malicious in its intent.

 

I genuninely don't know why she's acting the way she is. I get that she doesn't want to be with me, but now she's going out of her way to make my life difficult and she's trying to portray me as the bad guy in this when it is her that has taken joint decisions on her own and her that initiated this dialog.

 

And still, I'm remaining calm and not rising to it. I feel like she's trying to taunt me into some kind of response and I'm not giving her what she wants.

[Ruby65]

Stop the back and forth.

 

Figure out how much she owes you and send her an invoice by registered mail, return receipt. You can cc her parents, also by return receipt. Give her a deadline to make the first payment. When/if she misses the first payment, file a claim in Small Claims Court.

 

Dumpers re-write history to make dumpees the bad guy... especially if there's a new "hero" in their lifestory. Nothing you can do but suck it up and protect your financial interests legally.

[PegNosePete]

After she emailed me outlining her intentions (to not pay any of the joint bills which are set up against our joint account), I said I'd need to take legal advice.

And did you? I think it's a good idea.

You may have grounds to take her to court for her half of the bills.

Or you may not...

A solicitor would be the best to advise you on this.

You can get a free half hour consultation from most family solicitors so I'd definitely do it if I were you.

 

She then responded stating she believes she's been threatened with legal action and that my behaviour has been malicious in its intent.

Who cares? Just ignore what she says and get on with it.

 

You're not married. It doesn't matter who's the "bad guy" or not. All that matters is what the law says regarding who is liable to pay these bills.

[tylerj]

Yeah, I'm gonna have to take legal advice and just cut all contact from now on except legally worded letters / emails.

 

The only positive is that this whole ordeal has helped me move on. Not in a sense that I'm happy, but in the sense that I don't have a longing to have her back.

[tylerj]

Well, she responded to my response to the last email:

 

"I have given your suggestion of a 48 hour response limit some thought and believe that I cannot be held to such a restrictive agreement. Three days is more than sufficient, especially when you consider that prisoners on licence for murderonly have to report in once a week.

 

You are clearly under the impression that if you ignore my feelings and continue to behave in this controlling and bullying manner I will agree to whatever you think you want.

 

My suggestion is that I contact you on Thursday with my final offer subject to the legal advice I am seeking which on preliminary investigation suggests that you are not as entitled as you imply.

 

I am sorry that you are finding it difficult to deal realistically with the breakdown of this relationship, but think you may have been a little naive if you felt that a relationship would be based on no risks and that you would be exempt from the financial costs of ending the tenancy early.

If you contact me before I e-mail on Thursday then I do not see how communication can continue."

 

 

It feels like she's trying to manipulate the situation to suggest I'm harassing her, when all I have ever done is respond to her points she has raised. My email that she is replying to was politely worded (I took advice from my friends / family and uncle - a solicitor - when writing it).

 

For example, after responding to each of her points clarifying billing arrangements I responded to her comment accusing me of being provocative I signed off the email with:

 

"There has been nothing provocative about my communications. They have been in response to your initial communication (referenced above) that you had taken full responsibility for joint decisions, including dictating my living circumstance by removing yourself from council tax, asserting you would not contribute to bills etc. I have simply responded in a factual manner.

 

There has been no malicious or provocative intent behind any of my communications, so I am disappointed to read that you have construed them in this manner. I have also been clear not to insult you in any way. I do care and want things to be resolved.

 

I suggest a 2-day response window, unless information on joint accounts is required urgently. Does this meet your approval?"

 

 

I am now tempted to cut contact entirely and I'm definitely going to have to seek proper legal advice from someone qualified in this field (my earlier referenced uncle is a business lawyer).

[PegNosePete]

Stop contacting her, yes. It's pretty obvious that at this point, she is not interested in solving this amicably/fairly, and is only going to do what is required by the law. Definitely seek legal advice. No, do not ask your uncle business lawyer! That is like asking a brain surgeon how to do a heart transplant. He may think it's close enough, and he may give you advice, but it's not the same so no matter how well-intended, his advice could be wrong and misleading.

 

You should make an appointment with a local family solicitor. Pretty much every family solicitor does a free half hour initial consultation so it costs you nothing and they are bound by confidentiality and conflict of interest laws. There's really no reason not to do it. Even if they tell you you have no case, at least you'll know for sure, from an expert in the field.

 

See a brain surgeon for brain issues, and a heart surgeon for heart issues! A business lawyer if you have business problems, but a family lawyer for relationship breakdown issues. The law is very very different in these specialties.

 

And remember, no response is a response. There's really nothing to say in response to her email above. Ignore, delete, whatever. Don't even dignify her ridiculous waffle with a response. When she responds with some actual substance or useful negotiations, then you can respond. But until then, there's absolutely nothing to be gained by arguing or responding to her at all.

Edited May 6, 2015 by PegNosePete

[Ruby65]

I am now tempted to cut contact entirely and I'm definitely going to have to seek proper legal advice from someone qualified in this field (my earlier referenced uncle is a business lawyer).

 

YES!!! Finally. Good for you.

[minime13]

I left for my parents the following morning. On the Friday, she collected all her things and moved out officially. She lost some jewellery in the move and accused me of stealing them (via a text message to my mum).

 

 

 

My grandma subsequently found some of her jewellery yesterday, and I messaged her to say so. She seemed very apologetic that she’d accused me of stealing, and was unusually quick to reply in her messages, to thank us for looking. This surprised me as she made it clear she was only going to speak to my mum.

 

Before going into the advice that you are asking for, take a look at these 2 paragraphs. She accused you of stealing from her. Whatever the case may be, whether it is a warranted accusation or not, this shows that she does not trust you. I would never think or lay that kind of accusation down when it came to an ex that I lived with. Those are strong words. So, the first piece of advice would be to look at that and ask yourself if you can accept your partner making those accusations.

 

The fact that she is making further accusations about subsequent emails and other contacts you have made shows that she is not interested in any reconciliation, and is more concerned about how she makes it out without having to tote any further financial obligations than simply communicating and making a clean break like an adult.

 

That email she sent was very legal. She's getting the aid of a lawyer, and if she's bringing that to the table, so should you.

 

Let the two lawyers hash it out, because she's proven to you that she doesn't trust you, and really cannot be trusted herself.

[tylerj]

Before going into the advice that you are asking for, take a look at these 2 paragraphs. She accused you of stealing from her. Whatever the case may be, whether it is a warranted accusation or not, this shows that she does not trust you. I would never think or lay that kind of accusation down when it came to an ex that I lived with. Those are strong words. So, the first piece of advice would be to look at that and ask yourself if you can accept your partner making those accusations.

 

The fact that she is making further accusations about subsequent emails and other contacts you have made shows that she is not interested in any reconciliation, and is more concerned about how she makes it out without having to tote any further financial obligations than simply communicating and making a clean break like an adult.

 

That email she sent was very legal. She's getting the aid of a lawyer, and if she's bringing that to the table, so should you.

 

Let the two lawyers hash it out, because she's proven to you that she doesn't trust you, and really cannot be trusted herself.

 

Yeah that's the situation I am in, summed up pretty well.

 

I do not, however, think she will have taken legal advice. I am 99% certain her emails have been drafted by her mother, who is quite a vindictive person.

 

She's trying to paint this fictional picture of my where I've stolen her jewellery, am trying to be controlling to the point of harassing her, alleging I'm struggling to deal rationally with the breakup (when in reality, especially since the email trail was initiated by her, I've been impeccable in my behaviour and have simply resorted to being factual and only responding to her emails). She's trying to shirk responsibility for communicating and being adult about things by implying that I'm not capable of it.

 

In reality, she's annoyed I'm standing my ground and annoyed that she's having to pay for somewhere that she's not living in (she wants me out ASAP, so she no longer has legal obligations towards the tenancy).

 

I've sought advice. Bills enter a grey area, except those where there is a 12 month commitment (e.g. phone/broadband). Our verbal agreement was that we'd contribute half each. It is all set up against our joint bank account so our liability, should bills go unpaid is equal. Either or both of us can be pursued legally.

 

The downside to a solicitor is the cost. Mediation has been recommended. I will await her email later today and make a decision based on 'her final offer'.

[PegNosePete]

Who did you get this legal advice from, Yogi Bear? It doesn't seem very accurate to me.

 

Our verbal agreement

You know what they say about verbal agreements. They are not worth the paper they're written on. It's pretty clear that she's playing hardball here. I would be very surprised if she honours a verbal agreement, and the value of a verbal agreement in a courtroom is zero. Your word against hers.

 

It is all set up against our joint bank account so our liability, should bills go unpaid is equal. Either or both of us can be pursued legally.

Yeah, that means the creditor can choose who to pursue. They don't flip a coin you know, they go the path of least resistance to their cash. If you were Richard Branson, who would you pursue for the outstanding Virgin Media bill? The guy who is still living in the house and using your services, or his ex who is living goodness knows where, will fail to respond to all your letters, and will be virtually impossible to bring any court action against? I'm sorry but Virgin Media have the choice of which of you to chase, and there's no question that it's you, the house occupier, who will get the court summons if the bills go unpaid. Virgin Media don't give 2 short ships if it's "fair" or not, they just want to get paid. If all you have is a verbal agreement saying that she will contribute half, then I'm afraid you're probably screwed here. If she's honouring the verbal agreement then I would simply not rock that boat, but if she's not, I don't think you can do much to force her.

 

Things like rent and council tax may be different. Council tax, if she's moved out, you should register that with the council (it can be back-dated to the day she left). You'll get a single occupancy discount. You may or may not have any luck trying to recover any of her unpaid "half" through court action - this is why you need to see a family solicotor. Rent will depend on your rental contract but most people would say that since you have exclusive use of the property, you should be paying all of the rent. Again if she owes you her "half" for previous months then this may or may not be recoverable through court.

 

Electric, gas and water you generally only pay for what you use so you'll simply be paying for your own usage, and can't really expect her to contribute to that. Fair's fair.

 

The downside to a solicitor is the cost. Mediation has been recommended. I will await her email later today and make a decision based on 'her final offer'.

Mediation is only good if both of you want to reach an amicable agreement. She quite obviously doesn't. So mediation will be a total waste of time and money.

 

As for the cost of the solicitor, this is why most do a free initial consultation. They will be able to tell you if you have a case or not. If not then you can cut your losses, don't take on the solicitor on a paid basis, and be none the worse. If you do have a case then the solicitor will advise you whether it's worth paying them, or if you can do it yourself. Minimizing their clients' costs is one of a solicitor's most important duties, even if that means telling you not to use their services.

[Chi townD]

Yeah that's the situation I am in, summed up pretty well.

 

I do not, however, think she will have taken legal advice. I am 99% certain her emails have been drafted by her mother, who is quite a vindictive person.

 

She's trying to paint this fictional picture of my where I've stolen her jewellery, am trying to be controlling to the point of harassing her, alleging I'm struggling to deal rationally with the breakup (when in reality, especially since the email trail was initiated by her, I've been impeccable in my behaviour and have simply resorted to being factual and only responding to her emails). She's trying to shirk responsibility for communicating and being adult about things by implying that I'm not capable of it.

 

In reality, she's annoyed I'm standing my ground and annoyed that she's having to pay for somewhere that she's not living in (she wants me out ASAP, so she no longer has legal obligations towards the tenancy).

 

I've sought advice. Bills enter a grey area, except those where there is a 12 month commitment (e.g. phone/broadband). Our verbal agreement was that we'd contribute half each. It is all set up against our joint bank account so our liability, should bills go unpaid is equal. Either or both of us can be pursued legally.

 

The downside to a solicitor is the cost. Mediation has been recommended. I will await her email later today and make a decision based on 'her final offer'.

 

At this point, get a lawyer. Print up all those emails and bring them to your meeting. Let your lawyer do the talking from now on. If your lawyer contacts her and she sends you anything through email, direct it to your lawyer, he or she is your advocate and mouthpiece now. This isn't about a relationship anymore, it's about living up to your and her financial responsibilities.

[tylerj]

I am really confused. She did email me as planned last night and appears to have completely changed her tone since the previous email. Very strange behaviour?

 

"Here is what I suggest:

 

I will pay 50% of the rent – I will ask the letting agent if I can pay this to them direct to assuage your fears.

 

I will pay my share of the bills until you leave the property, subject to you showing me the appropriate information. Please send me scanned copies of the most recent bills from NPower, Sky, Thames Water, and any I may have missed.

 

I am no longer required to pay council tax. However, I will send you the £47.27 credit that we received when I took myself off the tax. I have signed the forms and will put this in the post to you.

 

I will pay 50% of the surrender fee if you choose to leave the property early.

 

We split the flat deposit 50:50.

 

Your spreadsheet leaves off the wine racks from Argos (est.£20), the Brita filter and filters (est. £26). Please add these items to your spreadsheet and any others that you may have subsequently remembered. I suggest you pay me 50% of the worth of our joint belongings subject to your amended spreadsheet. Ideally, I would like to receive this now, as I am having to pay rent to my parents and extra travel expenses. "