Differing views on marriage

[MissionPossible]

Hi all,

 

I'm currently in a very happy relationship with my bf of one year. Let's just say that I've kissed a lot of frogs, and finally, after some deep examination of my own self-worth and patterns in relationships, I did some work on myself and finally managed to find a prince We rarely disagree (I don't think I'd say that we've ever even had an argument) and when we do it gets resolved respectfully. He is sweet, thoughtful, faithful, yet independent and passionate about his hobbies enough that I don't feel smothered. Our sex life is great and we both have great careers that allow us to be financially secure. All in all, I couldn't be happier.

 

The problem? For one, I'm 7 years older (I'm early 30's, he is mid-20's) and we have differing views on marriage. We discussed it recently and I was surprised to find out that he views marriage as an unnecessary religious practice. We are both atheists so I sort of understand viewing the religious connotation as a negative, but I've never really related the two much in my mind. It also surprised me because his parents have an amazing marriage, still going strong after 30+ years.

 

When I asked him what he thought the downsides were, he named things like loss of independence, having to "check with someone" before doing something like buying a house, etc. He then also said that all of the positives of marriage can be had without the legality of being married - i.e. he knows lots of couples who have amazing, monogamous relationships and aren't married, as well as couples who are married and are terrible together. He doesn't see any association between being married and having a good relationship, it's almost an arbitrary line to him that comes only with some limitations on freedom.

 

It was an interesting perspective and it made me think a lot. On the contrary, though, getting married is something I definitely want to do. I'm posting because after talking to a male friend about it, he recommended that I put some honest thought into breaking up, because my boyfriend's views are unlikely to change and he thought that eventually, not getting married would be a deal breaker for me. He might be right, but I'm not sure.

 

A few days after the original marriage conversation, my bf asked me why I thought marriage was so great. I thought it was awesome that he asked, but I actually had trouble answering the question. Best I could do was describe it as a deepened sense of trust and security, and I don't think he really understood what I was saying because to him, you can have that without going through the trouble of a ceremony.

 

So - I guess I'm just looking for some guidance. This is by far the happiest relationship of my life, and I literally wouldn't change anything about him EXCEPT for views on marriage. I'm not necessarily in a hurry to get married (don't care if I end up having kids or not), but I'd like to feel like it's at least a possibility for the future. Is it worth throwing away something awesome because of this one sticking point? Or is it possible he'll change his mind? I remember being his age and being totally unconcerned with getting married because it seemed like I had an infinite amount of time, so those years were focused on traveling, learning who I was and exploring the world. That's where he's at right now, which I totally support, but I can't help but think that as he gets a little older, his perspective might shift. Yet my male friend tells me I'm being dumb by holding out hope.

 

Help?

[badpenny]

My H and I would never have married except that it was far more favourable for financial reasons in the long run.

Otherwise, as a female 5 years my H's senior, (I'm in my mid/late 50's: We married in 2011) I agree with your BF.

[d0nnivain]

Because your BF is only in his mid 20s it's possible that he will change his mind but it's more probable that he won't. If marriage is important to you then you have a difficult choice to make but you can't stay & hope he'll change because you will only end up resenting him

[katiegrl]

I actually agree with your boyfriend's POV on every single point! Well except that marriage = loss of freedom and independence. Which isn't necessarily true for all couples. Many married couples still maintain their independence after marriage, SAME as they did while they were dating or living together. Marriage does not necessarily have to change that.

 

That said, to me (and my boyfriend thankfully), commitment comes from the *heart* ..... NOT a piece of paper ( marriage certificate).

 

As for your feeling safer and more secure if you were married, not sure why you would, when your husband could cheat, lie, deceive just as easily when married as he could when not married and dating you/living with you (sans marriage).

 

My boyfriend and I have been happily living together for three years and I actually feel MORE safe and secure living together (than I would if we were married)....because by living together, I KNOW he stays with me because he WANTS to stay with me, not because he feels OBLIGATED to stay with me via a marriage certificate.

[MissionPossible]

I actually agree with your boyfriend's POV on every single point! Well except that marriage = loss of freedom and independence. Which isn't necessarily true for all couples. Many married couples still maintain their independence after marriage, SAME as they did while they were dating or living together. Marriage does not necessarily have to change that.

 

That said, to me (and my boyfriend thankfully), commitment comes from the *heart* ..... NOT a piece of paper ( marriage certificate).

 

As for your feeling safer and more secure if you were married, not sure why you would, when your husband could cheat, lie, deceive just as easily when married as he could when not married and dating you/living with you (sans marriage).

 

My boyfriend and I have been happily living together for three years and I actually feel MORE safe and secure living together (than I would if we were married)....because by living together, I KNOW he stays with me because he WANTS to stay with me, not because he feels OBLIGATED to stay with me via a marriage certificate.

 

Interesting perspective...I'll have to think about that. It kind of threw me for a loop when he asked me why it was important to me and I didn't really have a good, concrete reason. Since then I've been wondering if it's really necessary or if I'm attached to the idea for the wrong reasons. Then also are those couples where the man says his wife changed once they got married - seems like some women stop trying once they feel like he's "in the bag". I don't ever want to get lazy like that.

 

So conflicted!

[katiegrl]

Interesting perspective...I'll have to think about that. It kind of threw me for a loop when he asked me why it was important to me and I didn't really have a good, concrete reason. Since then I've been wondering if it's really necessary or if I'm attached to the idea for the wrong reasons. Then also are those couples where the man says his wife changed once they got married - seems like some women stop trying once they feel like he's "in the bag". I don't ever want to get lazy like that.

 

So conflicted!

 

I think if a couple wants children, marriage should be considered, but if they don't plan on having kids, again don't really see the point.

 

Commitment comes from the heart, not a piece of paper.

 

At least that's true in my relationship.

[d0nnivain]

I lived with a guy for a decade who fed me that BS about it's just a piece of paper & being together without benefit of marriage makes our commitment stronger because it's a choice.

 

So not true.

 

The act of getting married, of making those promises legally in front of God and all of your loved ones is profound. It moved me deeply. Even listening to other people take their vows renews mine & DH's commitment to each other.

 

You can get up & walk away from a dating relationship at any time for any reason with minimal legal or financial consequences. Not so with a marriage.

 

While I never felt insecure in my living together relationship, this is sooooo much deeper. It's hard to put it into words.

[katiegrl]

I lived with a guy for a decade who fed me that BS about it's just a piece of paper & being together without benefit of marriage makes our commitment stronger because it's a choice.

 

So not true.

 

The act of getting married, of making those promises legally in front of God and all of your loved ones is profound. It moved me deeply. Even listening to other people take their vows renews mine & DH's commitment to each other.

 

 

You can get up & walk away from a dating relationship at any time for any reason with minimal legal or financial consequences. Not so with a marriage.

 

While I never felt insecure in my living together relationship, this is sooooo much deeper. It's hard to put it into words.

 

>>You can get up and walk away from a dating relationship at any time for any reason with minimal legal or financial consequences. Not so with a marriage.<<

---

 

Exactly! Which is precisely why I feel SAFER and MORE emotionally secure NOT married.

 

Because I KNOW he is there because he loves me and WANTS to be there.

 

NOT because of some arbitrary piece of paper which *obligates* him to be there.

 

Different strokes....

[Arieswoman]

MissionPosible,

I think you need to think long and hard about whether or not you want to continue with this relationship.

 

If you want marriage and he doesn't then I can't see anyway around this impasse.

 

Marriage makes a legal bond between two people. It sets out in law who is responsible for what. It draws up boundaries.

 

This is from UK and spells it all out.

 

Citizens Advice - Living together and marriage: legal differences

 

Your choice

[katiegrl]

I lived with a guy for a decade who fed me that BS about it's just a piece of paper & being together without benefit of marriage makes our commitment stronger because it's a choice.

 

So not true.

 

The act of getting married, of making those promises legally in front of God and all of your loved ones is profound. It moved me deeply. Even listening to other people take their vows renews mine & DH's commitment to each other.

 

You can get up & walk away from a dating relationship at any time for any reason with minimal legal or financial consequences. Not so with a marriage.

 

While I never felt insecure in my living together relationship, this is sooooo much deeper. It's hard to put it into words.

 

You don't need a piece of paper to feel that level of deepness d0nnivain... at least I don't.

 

But if you do, that's your prerogative. It is just not true for *all* couples though

[Dork Vader]

From what I gather your boy friend is not marriage material. There is a lot more too it then just his belief that marriage is a religious thing. He simply is not ready for it or has no desire to ever do it (likely a combination of the 2).

 

There are reasons too get married beyond the religious ceremony. It brings about legal benefits too both parties. For example let's say you 2 spend 10 years married together and one of you were too pass away suddenly. It would make you (or him) the legal beneficiaries of the estate. It would also provide social security benefits known as survivor benefits. That is assuming you are in the USA. This can be HUGE in life especially when someone passes away. It gives you access to banking accounts, pension benefits and so so so much more.

 

Marriage can and does provide tax benefits. Marriage also provides you with other legal benefits in emergencies.

 

But the key to your entire post is the statement that he does not want to lose independence. Hello?! Are you in there?! This is a major red flag!! This means he does not want to share things with anyone. He even said that includes big financial decisions such as a home!! If you 2 have kids together and he decides he wants a Ferrari, it sure sounds like he's going to go buy it with out discussing the financial impact it will have on you and your kids. If he wants to buy a home and you don't want too he's going to flex his independence and do it..

 

That is not good boy friend material and surely is not good spouse material. No offense but I think you really need to access this relationship and what he is saying.

Edited April 26, 2015 by Dork Vader

[d0nnivain]

You don't need a piece of paper to feel that level of deepness d0nnivain... at least I don't.

 

But if you do, that's your prerogative. It is just not true for *all* couples though

 

I have had both. You have only had the one. For me it's better being married. Just because that is how I feel, doesn't mean you have to feel that way.

 

My point to the OP however is that if she feels marriage is important but her BF does not, she can't count on him changing his mind. She had to figure out what is more important to her. It's OK to pick him but it's equally OK for her to find somebody who shares her views on marriage.

[katiegrl]

I have had both. You have only had the one. For me it's better being married.

 

"Just because that is how I feel, doesn't mean you have to feel that way."

 

My point to the OP however is that if she feels marriage is important but her BF does not, she can't count on him changing his mind. She had to figure out what is more important to her. It's OK to pick him but it's equally OK for her to find somebody who shares her views on marriage.

 

Quoted sentence above -- absolutely! Which is exactly what I said in my earlier posts.

 

Different strokes = Everyone has different feelings about this, to which they are entitled.

 

I realize I am in the minority about this ..most people feel the same way YOU do!

[abby_tx]

I was in a similar position. I'm in my early 30's and dated a 27 year old guy who didn't believe in marriage and didn't want kids. It was the best relationship to date but at 4 months we had 'the talk' and realized how different our views were. The night we had the talk, we parted ways. It was his call because he didn't want me to resent him. In our case, I wanted kids and he didn't which I'm sure weighed more heavily in the breakup than our different views on marriage. I say if you care about him more than getting marriage, stick with it but definitely don't expect him to change his mind.

[Diezel]

So what you really want is for us to answer the "Why is marriage so great" question for you?

 

I don't know, the way he poses his view on it, sounds pretty iron-clad, specially since you couldn't answer his question, really, either...

 

All you did was strengthen his position.

 

And his parents might have an amazing marriage, but does this account for how many other people he might now that didn't?

 

He MIGHT change his views, but he has to do that on his own. Are you going to wait around for that to happen?

[BlueIris]

I agree with your male friend- your boyfriend is unlikely to change his mind. I’ve never known someone who feels that way to change his or her mind. I don’t recommend hoping he’ll change and marry you one day, perhaps because you want it or to please you. I would never marry someone who didn’t personally value and prioritize marriage.

 

Personally I prefer and value marriage, for many reasons, but many people do not.

 

Don’t marginalize or dismiss what you value and want in order to keep someone. Your reasons were legitimate, so don't think they weren’t good enough.

[casey.lives]

Marriage is just a piece of paper, if it's not tied to God. why do care about a piece of paper????

[smackie9]

Even tho I have been living common law for over 15 years, and have no interest in the ceremony of marriage/ or having a piece of paper that says we are married, I still understand your desire/mind set to getting married. It's a conscious act of devotion, hands down and most people want that. Marriage is a binding contract, not just for love but for financial/property ownership reasons too. Your BF is worried about his stuff, and dealing with the burden of splitting assets. I agree with your male friends, he's never going to marry you which means you are not the one.

 

***Even tho I am not legally married....it has worked for us, and it was my choice and he accepted it without an issue.

 

Since you have a desire/expectation of marriage because this is very important to you, sadly you need to end your relationship.

 

 

***If you live in Canada, the laws of being common law are different, but if you live in BC where I live, if you cohabitate for two years you are concidered as married, which means the property is divided 50/50 if you separate no matter what.

[BluEyeL]

From what I gather your boy friend is not marriage material. There is a lot more too it then just his belief that marriage is a religious thing. He simply is not ready for it or has no desire to ever do it (likely a combination of the 2).

 

There are reasons too get married beyond the religious ceremony. It brings about legal benefits too both parties. For example let's say you 2 spend 10 years married together and one of you were too pass away suddenly. It would make you (or him) the legal beneficiaries of the estate. It would also provide social security benefits known as survivor benefits. That is assuming you are in the USA. This can be HUGE in life especially when someone passes away. It gives you access to banking accounts, pension benefits and so so so much more.

 

Marriage can and does provide tax benefits. Marriage also provides you with other legal benefits in emergencies.

 

But the key to your entire post is the statement that he does not want to lose independence. Hello?! Are you in there?! This is a major red flag!! This means he does not want to share things with anyone. He even said that includes big financial decisions such as a home!! If you 2 have kids together and he decides he wants a Ferrari, it sure sounds like he's going to go buy it with out discussing the financial impact it will have on you and your kids. If he wants to buy a home and you don't want too he's going to flex his independence and do it..

 

That is not good boy friend material and surely is not good spouse material. No offense but I think you really need to access this relationship and what he is saying.

 

Besides the feeling that the partners are so sure they want to be with each other forever that they'd risk complications in case of a split, the practical reasons above are my reasons for wanting to eventually get married. Although I'm personally not in a hurry since I'm older and the having kids era is gone, and I've been married before so I don't want to be a double divorcee. So I'd like to date a man for about 3 years before thinking of marriage. I would live with a man, but if we end up being up there in our 60s, getting close to the end of our lives, signing for medical procedures, inheritance, social security, taxes and all of the other reasons he mentioned above are serious reasons to choose marriage. I wouldn't like to have my partner die on me and be kicked out of the house we shared, have no survivor benefits etc. Same for him. Also, if one of us is in the hospital, do I go there and say 'i'm his girlfriend"...(or boyfriend). It's just a deeper feeling to being the spouse. In front of everyone. But, again, I'd do it after I'm sure we're going to last the test of time.

 

For you, OP, since you are in your 30s, I would lean towards ending this relationship. It's not going to last, that's my feeling. He doesn't seem to have ideas consistent to a deeper commitment to a woman and having a family. Mentioning he doesn't want to "respond" to someone for buying a house...that's what a committed couple does, negotiates all of that stuff. He doesn't want it. I'm sorry, I know it would be extremely painful to end it, but in the long run, if you keep your good habits, you'll definitely find a man just as good as him and better, because he'll be marriage material too. And don't date men so much younger than yourself. They're more risky for commitment. Marriages like that happen, but it's better to date someone your age or slightly older if at all possible.

[Diezel]

Marriage is just a piece of paper, if it's not tied to God. why do care about a piece of paper????

 

Tax benefits.

[lana-banana]

You guys need to have a long talk to figure out exactly where you stand. If he's certain he doesn't want to marry you, please don't stick around and hope he will. You'll both end up miserable. If he thinks marriage is unimportant but he wants to make a lifetime commitment to you, then ultimately at the end of the road he ought to marry you, because you do care so much about it. If he's really and truly against the idea, I don't think you're going to find a good common ground.

 

Yes, marriage is just a piece of paper and you don't need it to be a happy, fulfilled couple, blah blah blah. We've all heard it and I think most of us agree to some extent. But marriage matters to me. I want to be married because it's a part of the cultural tradition in which I was raised, and I put a lot of stock in making and exchanging vows. I'm not ashamed to admit it.

 

Story time: when my boyfriend and I first started dating, he was pretty against marriage as a concept. (He'd been engaged once before and his fiancee cheated on him.) As we've dated he's let slip that he's thought about marrying me, that I "make him want things [he] thought he'd never want again", and all that, but I haven't put too much stock in it.

 

Last night we attended our first wedding together. Beforehand we talked a bit about the institution of marriage as a legal contract, the role of tradition, and so on. He sounded a little pessimistic and I was concerned, to the point where he said "hey, hey, don't worry, we're just having a conversation!" We were on the dance floor later having a good time when he swung me close and said "You know, I can think of worse things than being contractually bound to you." So...you never know.

[Vercetti]

Takes as much faith to be an atheist as a Christian...stopped playing that opposite game a long time ago. Yet if are a true beiliving atheist his views are not shocking. Of all the contracts on earth marriage is the only legal document bound by god. As an atheist you are your own god, every carnal reptile desire should be indulged as there is no consequence. Not even earthly concerns of diseases and respect of other people should stop you.

 

Perhaps your not as atheist as think. Perhaps men that have existed less then a second next to the scope of the universe know nothing.

 

My only advise is...watch Carl Sagan's COSMOS and read the Bhagavd Gita a few times before figure out what to do with extremely limited time.

 

Beyond that your boyfriend reminds me of my first relationship that lasted less then a year. I dumped her as felt there was apparent no future with such person. She is 37 now, strips does web cams, has three kids and doesn't know who any of the dad's are, bar and club hops, her friends are all collage age burnouts, has to move back with mom in a mississpi trailer when things get to hot, married some third world guy that skipped country on her......LMFAO she still thinks she has all the answers to life, a brilliant independent atheist unbounded from shame. Think I should have stayed with her?

 

Religion has nothing to do with ethics morality intergity...how much you think your current boyfriend has?