payback affair? I was hoping to work on our marriage but it looks bleak

[Cis]

My husband and I have been separated for 5 weeks. I betrayed him and had an intense emotional and physical affair with someone from my childhood. It lasted about 4 months - was mostly email since we lived 3,000 miles apart. We did have a few visits.

 

The more time passes the more I realize just how absolutely insane, stupid and wrong the whole thing was. It was unrealistic and it was so much about fantasy and mysticism and dreaming than anything real. I am gullible and was very vulnerable, because truthfully while I love my husband, I was feeling very lonely in my marriage.

 

It's been many months since I've had contact with my "friend", and I came completely and totally clean to my husband. I told him everything, been remorseful, apologized all over the place, showed him ALL of the emails (perhaps a mistake - not sure) and have tried to answer all of the questions no matter how graphic etc. My purpose for telling my husband everything was to put all of our cards on the table, to be honest and to see if we might be able to be honest about what we thought was missing in our marriage, attempt to meet each other's needs (my needs = him to curb his drinking and become emotionally available to me) and make a much better marriage.

 

Well, my husband can't get past his anger so the working on the marriage part isn't happening. Like some of the others here he is so hung up on what I did with the other guy. We go to therapy, we talk etc., but my husband gets so angry and continues to punish me with his barbs and says very mean and negative things.

 

Saturday we had lunch and took a walk. During lunch he informed me that he had been contacted by his ex-wife. This was his second wife and was his soul mate the love of his life etc... they had similar ideas about open marriage etc,.. but when she changed her mind about the whole set up - I guess (or I was told) that she was just too scared to ask about changing the rules, and ask for a monogamous relationship.

 

She was a threat to the early days of our marriage, and in therapy my husband recently revealed that he thought about her during the first two years of our marriage. I'm certain that someone from my husband's work (where she used to work also) contacted her and told her that he had separated from me.

 

Of course I was distressed to hear about him seeing her, "kissing and cuddling with her, and seeking closure with her". He says he is not going to get back with her, there is too much water under the bridge, baggage etc. Then he tells me he is traveling 600 miles to see her this weekend!

 

I am of course very hurt. I don't think engaging with her is helpful or productive - and frankly I don't believe that he just kissed and cuddled her -

 

I don't want to throw in the towel, but he says I'm dead to him, he doesn't wear his ring and now he wants to go and screw his ex-wife! After telling me all this on Saturday, he also had the nerve to ask to come to my apartment to make love!

 

Should I just suck this up as the "pay back affair", continue to ask for his participation, or receive it as a signal that he truly has left the marriage?

[johan]

It's hard to tell how much of what he's doing is just out of anger. Probably most everything, if you figure he most likely hasn't stopped loving you. Not sure how much you can take, though, or how far he could go. Even if he loves you, he may go beyond the point of no return.

 

I feel bad for you that things have turned so bleak. Think you did the right thing to tell him?

[quankanne]

aya-yi, you've got a really big problem here.

 

as hard as this is going to be, your best course of action is to get in his face and tell him point-blank that as much as you wish you could turn back time so that you could make the right decisions concerning y'alls marriage, it's not possible. That as much as he wants to rant and rail and strike back, the only thing you have to offer is your sincere apology for what happened.

 

let him know that you understand his anger and pain, but for him to honestly think about what he wants from you and from the marriage when he gets to a point where he can do so. (Anger has is time and place, but when it comes to making restitution, there's no room for it – it must be left behind so that the healing can start.) Until then, there is no way the two of you can move forward.

 

in the meantime, you will also need to seriously think through what you want from the marriage, and be prepared to face head-on what he throws your way -- like bringing up his ex and saying he is going to see her. I get the feeling that he's saying this to make himself feel better about being cheated on, as well as to hurt you. There also is the thought that maybe he can get some kind of closure from the death of their marriage; he may need to do this so he can be able to address what's going on with your marriage to him?

 

those are just my thoughts, and prolly not very realistic since I don't know the true dynamics of your relationship. However, one thing I will strongly advise is for the both of you to seek some kind of relationship counseling so that you receive the tools needed to help heal your marriage.

 

best of luck to ya,

quank

[whichwayisup]

Cis, I feel for you.

 

What he is doing by throwing his ex in your face is purposely meant to hurt you. Seems he wants to hurt you as much as you hurt him. Two wrongs DO NOT make a right.

 

I know how hard you've worked, to make it up to him and be patient...I'm sure you're frustrated as well as very upset with how he is acting. Quite childish and yet typical first reaction...Just a shame that he is acting upon it. Letting it rule and run his life instead of realizing you are willing to do everything that it takes to make things better.

 

I guess let him get this out of his system? This mean phase and anger...I bet he isn't really sleeping with her either.

 

If you still love him and want him, then continue with patience and tell him you love him and go to councilling together. At the same time, he isn't willing to hear that yet - Or if he is, he's decided not to put any effort in.

 

I hope he comes around...If he doesn't atleast you'll know you gave it everything you could...He may not ever be able to get over it, but I hope he does coz life is short.

 

Hang in there Cis.

[Cis]

Thank you so much for your support.... I have to remember that I don't want the marriage we had - I want a marriage I truly believe we are capable of having - one with intimacy, and respect. I love my husband, but his immature and angry behavior is difficult - he can only see what happened and not why it happened...(that is what my therapist said he would do and had advised against me telling him).

 

I look at posters like Dazed and I do understand that my selfish behavior has destroyed my husband's trust in me . I guess it's the Madonna image men want to have with their wives (doesn't jive with his previous open marriage) ...I don't know - I guess I'll just hang in there for now and see what happens.

 

I'm in a quandary though - I do want to meet his post important emotional needs (sexual intimacy), but when he "kisses and cuddles", and drives 8 hours to be with his ex wife I don't think he is meeting my most important emotional needs (emotional intimacy and companionship)...and frankly I don't want to be intimate with him when I think he is having sex with his ex-wife -and I know that my withholding sex will drive an even bigger wedge between us . I guess in the end the reality is - he isn't ready or may never be ready to do anything positive that would result in working towards reconciliation. I guess I need to really really get that.

 

But all in all - I'm glad we are facing up to this. I can't image spending the rest of my life feeling detached from my husband and being lonely. So in the end, I'm glad I fessed up - I'm having to take a lot of judgement from family etc. I guess I'll always be the black sheep now !

 

Thanks again to you all - I'm doing OK - living with my little dog in the city. It's actually very peaceful and I'm so busy walking the dog, exercising, buying things for the apartment, taking care of elderly parents, working and trying to read and socialize that I only feel really rotten half of the day...

[TMCM]

Originally posted by Cis

Thank you so much for your support.... I have to remember that I don't want the marriage we had - I want a marriage I truly believe we are capable of having - one with intimacy, and respect.

 

And you have every right to expect that kind of marriage but it takes two people to make this kind of marriage possible.

 

I love my husband, but his immature and angry behavior is difficult - he can only see what happened and not why it happened...(that is what my therapist said he would do and had advised against me telling him).

 

Just like you were acting inmature when you were in your 'intense emotional and physical affair' so is your H with his behavior driven by his anger. But it's easy to see things differently when you no longer are being controlled by intense emotions. Just like nobody was able to control your actions during your affair, nobody is able to control your H's actions. And just like your affair ran its course so will your H's alleged affair with his exW.

 

As far as what your therapist said, I wonder what he/she beleives keeping a big secret like an affair does for intimacy [the sharing of ones deepest thoughts and feelings] and respect. So many people that had an affair and follow the advice of well wishing friends and relatives of never revealing it to their spouse, end up having another affair in the later on. This is natural considering that the marriage has not changed one iota and the unfaithful spouse remains frustrated with the betrayed spouse. Affairs live and thrive off secrecy, lies and deception, so if these are still part of the marriage, the stage is already set for another affair.

 

I'm in a quandary though - I do want to meet his post important emotional needs (sexual intimacy), but when he "kisses and cuddles", and drives 8 hours to be with his ex wife I don't think he is meeting my most important emotional needs (emotional intimacy and companionship)...and frankly I don't want to be intimate with him when I think he is having sex with his ex-wife -and I know that my withholding sex will drive an even bigger wedge between us

 

Ah but if you withold sex from him you will not be doing it out of spite but out of love for him and for yourself. He is your H and as your H he has made a committment to be faithful to you and no other woman. If he doesn't want to observe that committment then he has no right to expect sex from his W, you. Besides, you'd be devaluing yourself and breeding resentment towards your H.

 

But all in all - I'm glad we are facing up to this. I can't image spending the rest of my life feeling detached from my husband and being lonely. So in the end, I'm glad I fessed up - I'm having to take a lot of judgement from family etc. I guess I'll always be the black sheep now !

 

An affair can bring the best and worst in people. Some people will find it in their hearts to forgive you and others will not. The former are the ones you want to keep and cherish, and the latter jettison like a dead skunk. The main thing is that you did what is right and that you can start to heal no matter what the outcome is.

[deemanct]

think of the relationship as a body...It's been beat up for a long time and now been subjected to severe injuries. It's much too soon to have it be up and walking around trying to heal itself. Lay low and heal a while. You only have control over what YOU do. You have no control over what he does. Let him do what he will. You should relax, unwind, and busy yourself other places/pusuits while you heal. All this will leave scars too...and they don't flex as far and as easy as emotional flesh thats never been damaged... good luck.

[Cis]

TMCM - I love you! You are so right and your words are inspiring - and you've been there since the beginning of this difficult journey...I think you were part of the group that helped me decide to come completely clean.

 

So today is therapy day - I'm nervous. Each time I'm afraid my husband will say it's the last time - and today we are sure to talk about his exwife etc.

 

I'll go into that session as authentic as possible - tell the truth and see where the chips fall. I've just been missing my husband so much - comparing our life to my current life and feeling sad. It's hard not to get on the "pity pot".

 

Dee - you're right you can't drag anyone along.... I've done a terrible job of letting go this past year. I need to start reading my Hugh Prather books again !

[TMCM]

Cis,

 

Although we may be poor substitutes for your H, nonetheless we are here for you. Your are not alone.

 

TMCM

[Cis]

Well, as expected, yesterday was horrible. My husband started the marriage counseling session announcing that it was his last since he is not willing to work on the marriage. The session was masterfully managed by the therapist and she brought out many important points including that ultimately I don't want to be married to someone who is not capable of forgiving me.

 

Towards the end she asked him if reconnecting with his ex-wife influenced his decision to end therapy. He hesitated. Earlier he had attributed a conversation he had with her to helping him realize that he lacked the ability to be emotionally intimate! My god - that's what all of our therapy and his personal therapy has been about. Oh well, he has made the choice that his ex-wife will now be his new therapist - good luck.

 

I came home, took off my rings which I've worn every day for twelve years, and left him a message asking when I can come and get my stuff.

 

I can't help but think that since he was raised without a mother's love (she died when he was five) he doesn't know what it feels like to be intimate, to really love or how to forgive.

 

Cis

[whichwayisup]

Cis, sorry to hear that. Wish things had worked out differently for you.

 

I hope he just lets you get your stuff and doesn't cause you anymore hurt. Enough has happened and hopefully in time he will regret his actions not to make it work with you. I'm surprised his EX isn't pushing him back your way. I wonder what her motives are...Guess I don't need to really ask.

 

Hang in there and keep posting, venting..

[TMCM]

Cis,

 

I also am sorry that he is still harboring resentment towards you and indulging in a self-destructive affair with his ex-W, but you did the right thing in putting your foot down and not allowing his abusive behavior to treat you like a doormat. Your self-respect comes first for without it, there is no love.

 

TMCM

[deemanct]

Hi Cis, I'm new to this forum, but I do like it. I wish I had known about it prior to my divorce. It would have helped alot. I'm really happy for you that you took off the rings and "took a stand" in your situation. Please don't second guess your choices... let them play out and see where they lead you. One thing I did when my "mess" was at its peak was keeping a private journal to help understand my feelings and sort them out. Some are recurring feelings that hindered my wellbeing... I couldn't see my way clear of them until I started writing down what I was feeling each day then reading it every few days to see where I've been, so to speak. I was then more able to recognize the feelings that were leading me out of the emotional mess and those that would keep me circling around and spiraling down in the "whirlpool" of self pity, self degradation, no hope, and so on.

I hope, and I know, things will continue to improve for you. By the looks of things you have lots of support here from your other friends too. Good for you!!! This life we each have is really big, and full of wonderful things and people. Surround yourself with those who care enough about you to help you back up on your feet, dust you off, and help you wear your smile right side up... and distance yourself from those who use you, mess with your head and heart, wear their smile upside down, and keep you in the "whirlpool" of misery. I did, and it made a world of difference. Life is too short to settle for such BS in your most intimate of relationships. Dee.

[Cis]

He says he hasn't give up on us and wants me to not give up on him! But it just doesn't jive with his actions:

 

1) quits marriage counseling

2) drives to LA to see his ex-wife - stays with her! He originally positioned it that he would just be visiting her...

3) doesn't wear his rings (I know I sounds like a broken record but it bothers me)

4) doesn't make an effort to get together with me (I haven't seen him in a week)

 

Oh well - I put my rings back on..I couldn't stand it - it seemed too sad. BUT I did spend money this weekend buying furniture and so now the flat is much more comfy and I don't feel like I'm punishing myself so much!

 

Thanks for your support you nice cyber people....

[deemanct]

I wish you well as you continue on. For what it's worth, remember:

1) People's words reflect many motivations, but their actions say what they really want to pursue in life.

2.) At the end of the day, we each have the life (i.e. level of happiness) we settle for and accept as legit. Watch what you settle for, 'cause that's what you'll have. Good luck to you. Deemanct

[whichwayisup]

He says he hasn't give up on us and wants me to not give up on him! But it just doesn't jive with his actions:

 

1) quits marriage counseling

2) drives to LA to see his ex-wife - stays with her! He originally positioned it that he would just be visiting her...

3) doesn't wear his rings (I know I sounds like a broken record but it bothers me)

4) doesn't make an effort to get together with me (I haven't seen him in a week)

 

Oh well - I put my rings back on..I couldn't stand it - it seemed too sad. BUT I did spend money this weekend buying furniture and so now the flat is much more comfy and I don't feel like I'm punishing myself so much!

 

Thanks for your support you nice cyber people....

 

Seems he's testing you and he's wanting to punish you at the same time...To see what your breaking point will be? Just a thought here. I mean, why would he say he's not giving up on you and doesn't want you to give up on him? AND then go off to be with his exWife? OK, this ex of his SHOULD be pointing him back to you...She's not a real "friend" to him, she's being selfish. If he doesn't want to move back home atleast she should be pointing him to a guy buddy's house and he could crash on the couch or something.

 

I'm glad you're wearing the rings. At the same time, put yourself first more and more. Good for you that you bought furniture! LIVE a little and try to be happy as much as you can. Don't punish yourself, you're working hard and deserve some rewards too! Don't forget that Cis.

[Cecelius]

He's still confused about what he wants, and his anger (which is a vital tool for a man, if its controlled) is the best way to not feel castrated, which is what this kind of thing I imagine could do to a man. I'd just give it more time.

[Cis]

anger and his hurt....

 

I feel like crap. He keeps comparing how I behaved toward my friend with how I behave toward him. It's unfair - when you are in the initial stages of "love" you just act and say things in a big and undefended way - and when you express your love to your spouse of 12 years - its' just different - not as wild and passionate. My husband says he won't be happy until he gets what I gave to my lover....

 

He just forgets how it was for us so many years ago. I remember - it was passionate - it was loving - we did write each other beautiful letters and notes - too bad they all burned up in a fire so I can't pull them out to show him.

 

Apologies to the men (Dazed, TMW etc) - but sometimes I can't help but feel he is choosing to hold on to this hurt to punish me. If you live long enough, are married long enough, bad stuff is gonna happen. You get betrayed, you get sick, you get swindled, you can get lied to, your house burns down, you can become addicted to a substance, etc. anything can happen and god damnit I wanna know that my partner and I can get through it.

 

He gives me fair warning that he is not recovering - that he may never be able to get over this - he says we can talk about it - but we never do.

[TMCM]

Cis,

 

I know you feel terrible about your affair, but please give some though to what I am going to tell you.

 

For your sake ,and his, you must reclaim your self-respect and dignity. It is good that you have expressed remorse for your affair, but don't allow yourself to become a doormat by giving him the impression that you will condone and become an accesory to what he is doing. So unless he shows signs that he truly wants to save/rebuild the marriage, you should consider not being available for him while he is engaging is such destructive behavior. If he truly loves you, your NC [no contact] just may be what finally gets through the pain and anger he is experiencing. I'm not telling you to act defiant and self-righteous, but to sit down with him and calmly, quietly and respectfully express to him that your NC is not a game or manipulative tactic on your part to further hurt him but a way to protect the love you have for him [if the feelings are genuine, then by all means cry in front of him]. Once he knows that you are no longer willing to be part the triangle between him, you and his ex-W, he may come to realize that you mean more to him than his pain and anger.

 

TMCM

[DesertDweller]

Hi, Cis. I've followed your posts and I think we're overlooking the fact that your husband drinks more than you'd like him to, and he wanted to have an open relationship with his ex. He doesn't sound like he has the right to be self-righteous. Does he have an alocoholic personality? You might look into Al-Anon. If you can stop feeling so horrible about your affair, (which I don't think would've happened if your H had been emotionally available) you may be able to step back and think about how you really feel about staying with a man who isn't meeting your needs. And get that self-esteem in gear!

[deemanct]

I agree with DesertDweller. That was very well put and to the point. Another point I think is important is that in the midst of turmoil such as yours, the people (meaning your H) who want to 'come back' to love and try to make it work, come back of their own accord, making a noticable effort.

 

If they don't want to come back, you can't make them 'want' to. What you can do, is do your best to get your own emotional house in order...that part of the equation you DO have control over. Let him make what ever foolish choices he wants to make.

 

His foolish head games will try to make you think you're indebted to him, and therefore you need to put up with his BS. You absolutely DO NOT have to put up with it.

 

I agree with DesertDweller...get some wind under your self-esteem wings. It will help get it all in the truest perspective... and that is the best place to make your choices from...not from within the turmoil. Deemanct

[Cis]

So AFTER making love on Sunday - I find out he is taking his ex-wife with him to France on a business trip! I promptly kicked him out of my flat and told him to not contact me until he can be honest with me.

 

You see - I came clean on my affair with the expressed desire to recreate an honest and loving marriage - for the duration of our marriage he's never been honest about anything (his feelings, his secret drinking, porn watching, visits to massage parlors, now trips with his exwife. etc).

 

He tells me he needs time to process the trauma of all the emails he reads - and continues to read and quote to me on a daily basis. He needs time to experience sobriety (that I'm very happy about), he needs this he needs that.... well if he wants to repair our marriage he also needs to:

 

1) cancel his trip with his ex-wife

2) re-start marriage counseling

3) continue his AA meetings

4) continue his individual therapy meetings

5) BE HONEST with me

 

The rings are off - and I'm going NC!

Thanks for all your support - I'm going to need it.

[whichwayisup]

You just did the hardest thing ever- but you did it for YOU. It hurts, no doubt but this is the only way now to handle this situation. You've tried everything to make it work, make it up to him...It seems he was only interested in making you suffer, make you pay for what you did - Then be nice, string you along then BOOM - Smack in the face. Can only take so much before saying F it this crap - I'm done!

 

Keep on posting and read No Foolin's thread in the Coping section - It will help you with the NC.

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t56954/15-1?highlight=

 

Pamper yourself, hang with girl friends and spend time with those who make you feel good.

[TMCM]

Cis,

 

I'm glad that you finally put your foot down and told him to get out.

 

As far as I can see, he's got 2 choices to make:

 

1. Stay married and work to address his issues [while you address your issues] to rebuild the marriage into a new, happier and healthier one than the old one. It's not easy, but if he truly loves you [like you love him] he will do it.

 

2. Divorce you and move on with his life.

 

Of course he wants a 3rd choice which is the unacceptable one of cake eating until he chooses one way or the other.

 

Cis, just like your actions will speak louder than your words so will his. Don't settle for anything less.

 

TMCM

[RecordProducer]

He'll be back. He is just trying to show you how much it hurt. Why else would he pick his ex-wife (who he already divorced!)? The more you show him how hurt you are the sooner he will come back to you. If you tell him he did no harm to you, he will continue to hurt you until you're completely broken. So let him know that you're devastated and want to die, etc.

Actually it's good for both of you to get even; that way the balance of (in)fidelity will be re-created.