Dating is worthless for men who can't read body language

[kry]

Honestly why bother? Tried to kiss a woman on a date and she give this look of horror. It was a 3rd date so I wasn't being a pervert. Same thing happened again and then again. I have asked the last few if she wanted to be kissed. Embarrassment and the effect of pouring ice water on any attraction from her. Now I've given up completely.

[fitnessfan365]

Well I gotta admit, it's weird that a woman would go out on three dates with you if she wasn't attracted enough to kiss you. I mean if she didn't want to kiss you, why keep going out with you? So I sympathize with you on that one.

 

Also, this is just my opinion of course. But I'd advise to NEVER ask a woman's permission to kiss her. Makes her feel awkward and the lack of confidence turns her off. So as much as it sucks, just try to brush it off and don't ask permission in the future. But even though this will give you little comfort, you were able to get three different women out with you. So you be doing something right.

[Dork Vader]

Why not learn the body language? The body language is not always the same for every woman though.

 

You should not give up on dating. But if you'd like some advice on how to go in for a kiss.

 

1. Don't just go for a kiss out of no place. This can be done AFTER the first kiss. But come on.. it's like jumping out from behind a corner to scare someone. You're always going to get a Woah!

2. Start slow with physical contact. When walking into a restaurant see if she'll allow you too put your hand on her back place just at the TOP of the tail bone or so. If you go too low she'll become uncomfortable (sort of like grabbing their bum), if you go to high she'll think friend.

3. Most woman I have dated prefer the man too sit next to them at restaurants instead of across. It's more intimate but only do this when it is appropriate (booths, or tables in which it won't be awkward for you to sit next to her).

4. Do not tense up when you make physical contact. You want to be relaxed and confident. If you tense up they will sense it. It's like being hugged by an electrical wire.

5. If they are okay with some playful physical contact.. Put your hand on their thigh start at the knee and just kind of caress them a bit. DO NOT go too far in between the legs (you'll come off as a perv). You also do NOT want to go to high up the thigh as your caress the leg.

 

If you have a female friend ask them for advice on these things. If the woman is okay with all of the above then wait for the moment when you two lock eyes and go in for it slowly. Be confident and do not tense up. If you're unsure of when then do it when you drop them off or say good bye for the night. It's a great time for a hug and a kiss.

 

As for their body language. If a woman wants you they will maintain eye contact with you. They will make physical contact with you tapping your shoulder when they laugh and so on. I

[fitnessfan365]

^^^

 

Pretty great advice actually. I especially like the jump out and scare analogy.

 

The one part I disagree on is sitting next to a woman at a restaurant. Especially if it's in the early stages, I prefer sitting across from her. If you're on top of her, it's harder to observe body language. Also, who wants to be talking out of the side of their face, or repeatedly having to turn to face the food, and then tuen sideways again to talk face to face, etc..? It's just awkward. Not to mention, footsy under the table if you're across and feeling chemistry. What are you going to do side to side, rub knees? Haha

[fred123]

Well I gotta admit, it's weird that a woman would go out on three dates with you if she wasn't attracted enough to kiss you. I mean if she didn't want to kiss you, why keep going out with you? So I sympathize with you on that one.

 

Also, this is just my opinion of course. But I'd advise to NEVER ask a woman's permission to kiss her. Makes her feel awkward and the lack of confidence turns her off. So as much as it sucks, just try to brush it off and don't ask permission in the future. But even though this will give you little comfort, you were able to get three different women out with you. So you be doing something right.

 

Maybe she thought they were just hanging out as friends rather than dates who knows but this has happened before many times.

[kry]

Well I gotta admit, it's weird that a woman would go out on three dates with you if she wasn't attracted enough to kiss you. I mean if she didn't want to kiss you, why keep going out with you? So I sympathize with you on that one.

 

Also, this is just my opinion of course. But I'd advise to NEVER ask a woman's permission to kiss her. Makes her feel awkward and the lack of confidence turns her off. So as much as it sucks, just try to brush it off and don't ask permission in the future. But even though this will give you little comfort, you were able to get three different women out with you. So you be doing something right.

 

Huh what? One said its being a pervert for kissing before that? But if I don't ask I don't know if she wants it. That's crazy. Don't want to be k own as a pervert.

Edited April 15, 2015 by kry

[kry]

Why not learn the body language? The body language is not always the same for every woman though.

 

You should not give up on dating. But if you'd like some advice on how to go in for a kiss.

 

1. Don't just go for a kiss out of no place. This can be done AFTER the first kiss. But come on.. it's like jumping out from behind a corner to scare someone. You're always going to get a Woah!

2. Start slow with physical contact. When walking into a restaurant see if she'll allow you too put your hand on her back place just at the TOP of the tail bone or so. If you go too low she'll become uncomfortable (sort of like grabbing their bum), if you go to high she'll think friend.

3. Most woman I have dated prefer the man too sit next to them at restaurants instead of across. It's more intimate but only do this when it is appropriate (booths, or tables in which it won't be awkward for you to sit next to her).

4. Do not tense up when you make physical contact. You want to be relaxed and confident. If you tense up they will sense it. It's like being hugged by an electrical wire.

5. If they are okay with some playful physical contact.. Put your hand on their thigh start at the knee and just kind of caress them a bit. DO NOT go too far in between the legs (you'll come off as a perv). You also do NOT want to go to high up the thigh as your caress the leg.

 

If you have a female friend ask them for advice on these things. If the woman is okay with all of the above then wait for the moment when you two lock eyes and go in for it slowly. Be confident and do not tense up. If you're unsure of when then do it when you drop them off or say good bye for the night. It's a great time for a hug and a kiss.

 

As for their body language. If a woman wants you they will maintain eye contact with you. They will make physical contact with you tapping your shoulder when they laugh and so on. I

 

I asked for help and my friends tried and tried but got exasperated and said I'd never get it. But I'm tense on a date because I can't get many except for every couple of years. Don't even believe women want physical contact with me because it always goes wrong and she just laughs at how awkward I am. All the things you listed I got told to me but it doesn't work. One of my friends bet that I would be 50 before I had my first girlfriend and he's probably right because nothing works and I don't want to be seen as a pervert who is just after sex and treats women like objects ever.

[kry]

My friend is right isn't he that I won't have a girlfriend even by 50? He said go to a hooker or I'll never see a woman naked and all his did was laugh so I don't know if serious. I wish I didn't even ask anybody about these things because it's a nightmare. Don't even understand, I'm not ugly, have my own house with three bedrooms, have a good car which I bought with cash, have hobbies, but not even the ugly women have a desire for me, I guess I'm done for because I'm worth nothing to women because I don't know what they want and can't understand them. It's like we're not even the same species because I don't get it.

[Buddhist]

As someone who is socially awkward in everyday life I concur its frustrating and indeed sometimes it seems like nothing ever works. Over and over the same reactions and still no idea why it happens. People are phobically attuned to social awkwardness, its like startling deer. Just from what I've read here I'll make a few observations.

 

1. Its possible that you were going for the kiss in places and times deemed inappropriate. 3rd date, yep sounds okay. But did you try to kiss her where other people might have witnessed it? Was the lighting too bright, was it lacking privacy, was it just at an odd place in the conversation rather than at the end of a pregnant pause? Because you know the kissing moment happens when silence overtakes the conversation, when you are both fishing for something to say. When she's making glassy deer eyes at you and leaning in close. If you never get to that moment then she's not interested.

 

2. People don't like to be called out on their emotions which is why things turn cold when you ask to kiss them. You killed the moment, with a shot to the head and an ugly blood splatter pattern. Its like asking someone to be honest with you, this is what goes on.

 

No way in hell am I going to tell you what I honestly think. I know you'll get butt hurt because I've been faking what I think about you for a long time. **** that and besides you are only really asking me to stroke your ego anyway, so I'm going to do just that and earn social brownie points for me.

 

Yes my socially awkward friend, people ARE that contradictory. What you see is almost never what you are getting.

 

So when you bluntly call out a woman's inner emotions by asking her to verbalise it you are in effect performing an enormous social faux pas. Unless of course you are devilishly handsome and the question is popped as an erotic whisper while leaning in close and giving her a kiss that is basically an orgasm. But something tells me you might not quite be up to that.

 

3. You could look incredibly funny while attempting these little romantic steps, and she is aghast because it's a kinder expression than bursting out in laughter. There is only one solution and it feels every bit as stupid as it sounds. But girls do this from the time they learn to pee independantly, so maybe it's not such a bad idea. You have to watch yourself in a mirror while you do what you are doing in front of women. In your head it probably seems okay, in practice it could look hilariously awkward.

[Gaeta]

^^^

 

Pretty great advice actually. I especially like the jump out and scare analogy.

 

The one part I disagree on is sitting next to a woman at a restaurant. Especially if it's in the early stages, I prefer sitting across from her. If you're on top of her, it's harder to observe body language. Also, who wants to be talking out of the side of their face, or repeatedly having to turn to face the food, and then tuen sideways again to talk face to face, etc..? It's just awkward. Not to mention, footsy under the table if you're across and feeling chemistry. What are you going to do side to side, rub knees? Haha

 

It would be interesting to ask other women how they feel about it but I love sitting side by side instead of face to face. It's something I like to do from date 3. I don't care about footsy I much prefer feeling his whole body next to me and conversing in a more intimate matter instead of shouting at each other across the table.

[ascendotum]

My friend is right isn't he that I won't have a girlfriend even by 50? He said go to a hooker or I'll never see a woman naked and all his did was laugh so I don't know if serious. I wish I didn't even ask anybody about these things because it's a nightmare. Don't even understand, I'm not ugly, have my own house with three bedrooms, have a good car which I bought with cash, have hobbies, but not even the ugly women have a desire for me, I guess I'm done for because I'm worth nothing to women because I don't know what they want and can't understand them. It's like we're not even the same species because I don't get it.

 

If it helps you to relax around women, then it might well be worth your while to have a few of visits to a pro. I'd say the problem is you are too tense, so you are probably over thinking things in your head while on the date and maybe stiff in your body language, and the girl picks up on it and is not relaxed around you. Try and get your tenseness/anxiousness under control so you enjoy your time in their company and their is less pressure on you. the house/car/hobbies mean shyte unless you can get a good vibe going with them. You want a girl to desire you not those things which are bonuses. View some dating attraction advice clips on the www. There is sure to be some decent ones on Indicators of interest & body language. View the ones that deal with masculine body language also as that might be more relevant in your case.

[guest569]

Were they dates? And at what point did you "try" to kiss them? Bit mystified without these details why they would be shocked.

[todreaminblue]

i am not a fan of side by side......i like a bit of personal space......i also read body language....and faces...i prefer to be face to face....a guy if he sits besides me, throws me for six straight up......i like eyes...and i like to look straight on.....not from the side.....its a completely different view.....side on.....

 

as far as body language goes...if you get to hung up on it...you try to read everything into every little nuance...and it becomes confusing.....concentrate on your own body language because often it is your body language that can affect anothers......in a positive way ro a negative....you cant control anothers emotions or feelings but you can understand and control yoru own....

 

 

...be open be honest be warm be friendly....gets you far....dont guard your food or your body....leave your arms open......smile often..be engaging and interested .relax your shoulders stop them from creeping up around your neck.....be confident......and keep your elbows away from around your plate....dont guard food..be open to the fork from across the table that wants to try a morsel...deb

[loveweary11]

I asked for help and my friends tried and tried but got exasperated and said I'd never get it. But I'm tense on a date because I can't get many except for every couple of years. Don't even believe women want physical contact with me because it always goes wrong and she just laughs at how awkward I am. All the things you listed I got told to me but it doesn't work. One of my friends bet that I would be 50 before I had my first girlfriend and he's probably right because nothing works and I don't want to be seen as a pervert who is just after sex and treats women like objects ever.

 

We've all had that happen. Happened to me last year. Went in for a kiss since I thought we were feeling it, got the chicken neck response and no kiss.

 

Felt pretty awkward at the time and she had to explain herself from then on... what she saw us as. And she was, herself, very confused about that since we'd actually had sex a couple times before that.

 

Main thing is... get the idea of being a perv only after sex out of your head. As much as women don't want to be treated as sex objects, there comes a moment when that's exactly what they want.

 

You are psyching yourself out. You are worrying that you are awkward, that you are an awkward perv. You must get a higher self image. More self respect to know you are worthy, you are not a perv and you are not awkward, except just enough to be charming.

 

Hiw about those big bang theory characters? Awkward AF, but I know many a girl that fantasizes about them.

 

This isn't the 70's and 80's where only the jock gets the girl. Times have changed and plenty of women like slightly awkward guys.

 

But all of your issues aren't with womnen and skilks in body language. The issues are in your own head. Self doubt and self confidence issues. Fix them and everything will change.

[Gary S]

Hey, at least you got to the point of going for a first kiss, some guys don't even go that far, you are doing well!

 

There are other more obvious clues that a woman likes you besides body language:

 

- On the date - does she touch you? Count how many times.

 

- If she gives you compliments

 

- If she contacts you first after a date

 

- talking about future dates

 

- Sometimes when she lets you pay for the date it means she likes you.

 

- if she stares at you a little too long

 

- if she seems too happy to be there

 

- if she wants to extend the date

 

- if she asks personal questions - women who are falling for you want to learn everything about you

 

- if she mentions attraction

 

- if she tries to get a little too close to you

 

Talk is cheap but actions scream. You only need to find one good one.

[Justanaverageguy]

3. Most woman I have dated prefer the man too sit next to them at restaurants instead of across. It's more intimate but only do this when it is appropriate (booths, or tables in which it won't be awkward for you to sit next to her).

 

 

The one part I disagree on is sitting next to a woman at a restaurant. Especially if it's in the early stages, I prefer sitting across from her. If you're on top of her, it's harder to observe body language. Also, who wants to be talking out of the side of their face, or repeatedly having to turn to face the food, and then tuen sideways again to talk face to face, etc..? It's just awkward. Not to mention, footsy under the table if you're across and feeling chemistry. What are you going to do side to side, rub knees? Haha

 

 

I'm with Dork on this one. I always pick corner tables or booths if they are available. It allows you to sit next to each other so contact can be more mutual and gradual. I actually find this is most important on early dates when physical contact hasn't been properly established yet. Once I know a girl and they are comfortable with me touching them it is not as important. For me it totally makes it easier to:

 

1. Tell if she is interested by how she positions herself next to me. In these scenarios girls who are interested always close the gap.

 

2. Gradually escalate things so you aren't throwing hail mary's at the end of the night. Girls even when they are really into you don't like to go from 0-100. You want to establish consistent body contact and gradually increase it which is difficult from the other side of the table. Next to each other you can start with closing the space, lean ins and then gradually progress to touching and other contact from there.

 

3. Lastly and most importantly people are more comfortable being close to someone else when they are side by side. Seriously it is a psychological instinct with all humans. If you don't believe me go and stand directly in front of someone and see what they do. They will feel awkward and move away. Then go stand beside someone and in all likelihood they won't care. You want a girl to be comfortable and you want to initiate contact in a way she likes. Reaching across a table is the worst way to do that as you are directly entering her space from the front. Its confrontational for many and illicit's an instinctual negative response.

[d0nnivain]

OP have you tried professional therapy. Perhaps if you could learn to relax more & your own body language wasn't given off such a tense vibe, things would go more smoothly for you.

 

Clearly you have had success in other areas of your life -- you earned enough to afford a nice home -- so I have to think there is hope for you.

 

Trying for a kiss on a 3rd date do not make you a pervert so you can relax on that score.

 

FWIW I disagree with the side by side folks. Sit across from me so I can see your face. It's fine if it's a big curved booth but otherwise, stay on your side, unless there are 4 people then do sit with me.

[ZA Dater]

Perhaps I have had an extra does of cynicism today but reading through this has really made me wonder about a few things.

 

 

Are females SO put off by an awkward guy, surely if he is well mannered, nice personality, smart looking being awkward isn't a total deal breaker?

 

 

Why cant females make the first move, why must it always be the guy who must look and feel stupid when he is brushed off?

 

 

It constantly amazes me with my own experiences that GUYS are expected to be this pyramid of perfection, perfect body language, perfect everything and yet females, well their body language doesn't seem to matter, its perfectly ok if they brush off guys.

 

 

As I say the dose of cynicism is very strong today.

[BluegrassBaldGuy]

Why not learn the body language? The body language is not always the same for every woman though.

 

You should not give up on dating. But if you'd like some advice on how to go in for a kiss.

 

1. Don't just go for a kiss out of no place. This can be done AFTER the first kiss. But come on.. it's like jumping out from behind a corner to scare someone. You're always going to get a Woah!

2. Start slow with physical contact. When walking into a restaurant see if she'll allow you too put your hand on her back place just at the TOP of the tail bone or so. If you go too low she'll become uncomfortable (sort of like grabbing their bum), if you go to high she'll think friend.

3. Most woman I have dated prefer the man too sit next to them at restaurants instead of across. It's more intimate but only do this when it is appropriate (booths, or tables in which it won't be awkward for you to sit next to her).

4. Do not tense up when you make physical contact. You want to be relaxed and confident. If you tense up they will sense it. It's like being hugged by an electrical wire.

5. If they are okay with some playful physical contact.. Put your hand on their thigh start at the knee and just kind of caress them a bit. DO NOT go too far in between the legs (you'll come off as a perv). You also do NOT want to go to high up the thigh as your caress the leg.

 

If you have a female friend ask them for advice on these things. If the woman is okay with all of the above then wait for the moment when you two lock eyes and go in for it slowly. Be confident and do not tense up. If you're unsure of when then do it when you drop them off or say good bye for the night. It's a great time for a hug and a kiss.

 

As for their body language. If a woman wants you they will maintain eye contact with you. They will make physical contact with you tapping your shoulder when they laugh and so on. I

 

Just wanted to say that this is great advice. You clearly know what you're talking about when it comes to body language! Good stuff.

 

I'll add that regarding a first kiss, you've got to be able to read the situation. Sometimes girls are ready on a first date, other times it takes longer... or never lol. If you've crafted a comfortable environment for the two of you to interact in during the date, that makes all the difference.

 

When girls are comfortable with you, it instills a sense of trust. Then the kissing is easy... sounds so simple, right? If only it was haha

[fitnessfan365]

2. Gradually escalate things so you aren't throwing hail mary's at the end of the night. Girls even when they are really into you don't like to go from 0-100. You want to establish consistent body contact and gradually increase it which is difficult from the other side of the table. Next to each other you can start with closing the space, lean ins and then gradually progress to touching and other contact from there.

 

3. Lastly and most importantly people are more comfortable being close to someone else when they are side by side. Seriously it is a psychological instinct with all humans. If you don't believe me go and stand directly in front of someone and see what they do. They will feel awkward and move away. Then go stand beside someone and in all likelihood they won't care. You want a girl to be comfortable and you want to initiate contact in a way she likes. Reaching across a table is the worst way to do that as you are directly entering her space from the front. Its confrontational for many and illicit's an instinctual negative response.

 

Well to be honest, I have never and will never take a woman to dinner on a first date. I always plan something low key where we can walk around, chat, and break the touch barrier naturally. Being stuck at a table turns it into an interview. Dinners are better when there's already romance forming and you want to be more intimate. Also, seating arrangement depends on the context. If it's a woman you've already been seeing, and romance is already forming, then sitting next to her is no big deal. However, if someone was going to do a dinner date on a first date, when she's a complete stranger it's different. I mean think about it from her POV man. Here's this guy she doesn't know, that's crowding her, and subtly touching her all night while she's trying to eat. That's just awkward, clingy behavior.

 

On a first date, you always want to lean back and give a woman time to adjust to you. When you're sitting across, you can allow her to lean in as she gets more interested. Then you have a much better gauge of her body language. Is she facing away slightly and crossing her arms. Or is she opening herself up to you? Is she touching her hair or a piece of jewelry? Are her pupils dialated? This is one natural response the body gives off when she's attracted. If you're sitting on top of someone side to side, you can't really observe her at all. But if you give a woman space and allow her to be receptive as her interest grows, that's when you know how to proceed IMO.

Edited April 15, 2015 by fitnessfan365

[Justanaverageguy]

Well to be honest, I have never and will never take a woman to dinner on a first date. I always plan something low key where we can walk around, chat, and break the touch barrier naturally. Being stuck at a table turns it into an interview. Dinners are better when there's already romance forming and you want to be more intimate. Also, seating arrangement depends on the context. If it's a woman you've already been seeing, and romance is already forming, then sitting next to her is no big deal. However, if someone was going to do a dinner date on a first date, when she's a complete stranger it's different. I mean think about it from her POV man. Here's this guy she doesn't know, that's crowding her, and subtly touching her all night while she's trying to eat. That's just awkward, clingy behavior.

 

On a first date, you always want to lean back and give a woman time to adjust to you. When you're sitting across, you can allow her to lean in as she gets more interested. Then you have a much better gauge of her body language. Is she facing away slightly and crossing her arms. Or is she opening herself up to you? Is she touching her hair or a piece of jewelry? Are her pupils dialated? This is one natural response the body gives off when she's attracted. If you're sitting on top of someone side to side, you can't really observe her at all. But if you give a woman space and allow her to be receptive as her interest grows, that's when you know how to proceed IMO.

 

Yeah understand your point of view. Really depends on the situation. I agree that if it is a first date where you don't know the girl at all - then you definitely don't want to be all over her. For that type of completely cold first time meeting - across from each other is probably the preferred option. Regardless though when side by side I will never be in there crowding her. The whole point of side by side is it allows "mutual" closeness. Like I said you actually want the girl to close the gap to you - you can feel off her body language if she wants to be touched by how she positions her body to you. In the end you really want a 50/50 when it comes to who is touching who. If I don't know the girl at all then I will normally not really try too much touching at all on the very first date. But dates 2 and 3 you want to progress past that point and side by side is much easier to do.

 

As an example - I have a date this evening with a new girl. Its technically a first date - but we met each other on the weekend in a bar. We really hit it off and spent a couple of hours chatting and flirting. At the end of the night she was riding home so I walked her to her bike, got her number and snuck in a cheeky good night kiss. So we have already broken the touch barrier and even shared a quick kiss - its not your typical first date setup. I would basically consider this as a second date.

 

It's spring so we are meeting to take a walk along the river and grab a drink somewhere in the sun - then walking to a restaurant for dinner. I booked ahead at the restaurant and specifically requested a corner booth so we can be side by side. The date is a little bit of a mix of low key casually walking around - like you mentioned - but then with dinner after to sit down and get a bit more cosie.

[GravityMan]

Dating is worthless for men who can't read body language

 

Honestly why bother? Tried to kiss a woman on a date and she give this look of horror. It was a 3rd date so I wasn't being a pervert. Same thing happened again and then again. I have asked the last few if she wanted to be kissed. Embarrassment and the effect of pouring ice water on any attraction from her. Now I've given up completely.

 

You make it seem like it's impossible to learn how to read body language.

 

It's not.

 

Besides, I think you can already read body language. You probably wouldn't have accomplished some of the other things in your life without that ability.

 

I think you just need to relax and stop putting so much pressure on yourself. You're too deep inside your own head, thus making the situation unnecessarily awkward. It's just a date...no need to build it up into this huge mental sacred spectacle. Intimate actions such as kissing tend to go better when both people (or at least the person that takes the lead) are relaxed and in a fun mood.