Researching Florence Nightingale Syndrome

[caregiver218]

I posted a concern about a gentleman I had met about 3 months ago. (introduced by a mutual friend). In some of the replies I had received, it mentioned the Florence Nightingale Syndrome.

 

Reading into this it isn't all relating to my personality type. I mean, we all have "issues" and we want to find someone that "helps" with those...makes them better, makes us better, brings joy into our life, etc.

 

I am confused on this topic, since I see myself not as a full blown Florence Nightingale personality. I AM a caregiver....I help those in need because I know what it is like to NOT have help or anyone when you need it the most. Do I overly help....maybe....sometimes for the ones I care about the most BUT do I want the broken and the drama that their poor pity me parties...NOT AT ALL!

That is where I am quite the opposite.

 

I was married to my high school sweetheart, dated since middle school. He cheated and justified it as "we never experienced life". We had a business, a big house, lots of land and we had everything we ever wanted. We divorced and ended on good terms.

I spent most of my life raising my kids and being involved in my career and my children and volunteer work, etc. I only dated when I felt I had the time or just flat out wanted to.

 

I have only "dated" a handful of gentleman since my divorce. I have had a lot of one time dates, set-ups, etc. I am a serious, loyal person when I find someone to invest my time in (being a single mom and businesswoman, I value my time...and respect others time as well).

 

I became a very independent, strong and confident businesswoman that made her way in a "man's business world". Like most (females/males), I have had my insecure moments, my bad moments, my need to help others and lose myself in the process sometimes. I have worked hard on trying to be a better person. (WE ARE ALL FAULTED in some way)

 

I pride myself in not wanting drama in my life. I am a too trusting person and I do see the good in everyone (to an extent) - and I feel like in this world, these are now BAD TRAITS to have!!! (sigh) I am not a jealous person, I pretty much try to be the person I would like to have in my life. (the good the bad the ugly)

 

The man I recently met and have gotten completely away from...was different from any others I have known/met before. From our first "date" (remember, we had just met) he talked nonstop about the crazy horrible psycho "bitches" he had (two main ones he talked about), about losing his parents, about how he lost everything in a divorce, how his ex just up and left with his kids one day and how she is remarried and had kids with the new guy and how she now cooks and cleans and is seemingly happy. On and on and on about all the bad in his life. FIRST DATE!!!

 

I should have walked...I know...but I stayed because I generally liked him. We had so much of the some interests/hobbies (well, so it seemed...come to find out later, we never did any of those things).

 

He was depressed, he had anxiety thru the roof, he had a nervous stomach, he made everything in his life stressful and complicated (HE MADE HIS LIFE THAT WAY).

By date four (which HE had to see me everyday since we met...and to be honest, I enjoyed it), he told me that he "knew my type....knew that I was always looking for the next best thing and that I used guys as stepping stones". He couldn't have been more WRONG about me. I asked him what in the world would make him think that....he told me it was the way I looked, the vehicle I drove (all for attention) and that I am always looking at guys.

First....I was just in shock. I told him my struggles in life, how I had lost everything and had to work HARD being a single mom (with no support or help from my ex) to get out in the workforce again (was a stay at home mom and worked with our business). That my vehicle was the only thing I had ever bought for myself, it fits my lifestyle with the kids, friends, family, etc. My looks...well....I can't help that (no plastic surgery, no make-up and in fact, the first week of him seeing me, I had been fighting a horrible sinus infection and wore jeans or my work dress slacks).

Second...I didn't get upset and walk away...LIKE I SHOULD HAVE (I know, I know).

 

In the 3 months of being with him, yes, of course there had been good times, but most of the time I was walking on eggshells with him. I couldn't do ANYTHING (nothing at all) right in his eyes. Wearing his hat on a hike, I wore it wrong and was going to embarrass him or mess it up. Cutting up food for dinner...I was cutting the mushrooms too small, using the wrong spoon to stir, etc. Cleaning his kitchen and vacuuming his floor...I couldn't do it right...he would actually come and take the rag or vacuum from him, stop what he was in the middle of and take over.

I could go on and on.....

 

Did I feel sorry for his past yes. Did I want to make his life better..of course! I told him some horrible times in my past, but he would just tell me that those weren't that bad and not even close in comparison to his past hardships. I constantly had to hear about his past, past girlfriends, ex, all this bad stuff. On the flip side, I always had to hear about how many "younger" girls were after him, how he could have anyone that he wasn't looking when we met (funny because our mutual friend said that this guy was telling him he had given up on finding a good woman with the some interests as him and took care of herself and was confident and independent). -- Our friend that he described me to a T and I definitely needed to meet him.

 

I seriously think this guy was so afraid of me...I think he was insecure and had been so hurt, that he had to act to horrible towards me for some weird mental reason. He could be on his phone 24/7, if I picked up my phone once, the rude hateful comments started ('soo you are on facebook again...you are one of those types always posting ****' or 'talking to your next prospect'?) --- both were nonsense. When in reality maybe HE was the one doing all of that?? I mean, afterall, he had his own business, would work from coffee shops or his house at any time he wanted. He had tons of girls he talked to and even one that he had place a restraining order against at some point and he never changed his number and she wrote him one day saying she had a baby and was married AND HE REPLIED and still talks to her!!! WHAT????

 

He would drive away and leave me standing outside of a store, if he went off over something. He would walk away, he would call me every name in the book, he would be so hateful and hurtful. I "called him out" on numerous things and tried to get him to understand things couldn't stay this way if he wanted it to work. Well come to find out (from this wonderful forum) that he had a lot of Narcissist Personality traits. Now...I am FAR (FAR) from perfect but I couldn't stand everything being turned around on me, walking on eggshells and not doing anything right and the constant threats of he can have whoever he wants, etc. 3 months of that...I knew I didn't want that for a lifetime. So I walked away. I know what I don't want in my life. I know my self-worth.

 

Anyway....I am not certain if I qualify as the Florence Nightingale Syndrome. But I will admit I to care too much, I do like to help people. BUT I don't want a man in my life I need to "change". I haven't had anything traumatic in my past which most women with this syndrome have had.

 

Any thoughts on how I can NOT attract another man like I just got away from. (((well in a sense...I didn't attract him, we were introduced, and from the first date, he was persistent on seeing each other every day))).

 

Just so concerned now about the types of people out there!

[caregiver218]

Written in from an e-counseling site I was researching.

 

Kathy says:

NML — I adore your posts sooo much. But I have to say I disagree with you on one point here. In my life, I have in fact met MANY people who want to be pitied. It is a form of manipulation, of guilting someone into rescuing them, enabling them, taking care of them. I have been sucked into the Florence Nightingale role a couple of times, not willingly, but all of a sudden “waking up” and saying “How did I get here? This was not anything I thought I was agreeing to at the beginning. Instead it has been a slippery slope.” I do, however, take responsibility for my part in not having good boundaries and in not realizing when it first started happening that I was playing into an unhealthy pattern. My philosophy now is to be wary of anyone who wants me to feel sorry for them because it is a trap. And I do not intend to get snared again,

• NML says:

 

You’re totally right Kathy that there are some people that do want to be pitied and we can be sucked in but we also don’t have to pity them, plus the fact that someone plays the victim status is actually a red flag in itself. Someone doesn’t have to be an ‘assclown’ to be chosen for a fixer upper and not everyone plays the pity card plus on top of it, FN’s take all sorts of information and believe them to be signals to fix/heal/help. Someone can look for pity but we don’t have to give it. While there are some very dangerous people who are very manipulative, this would be a distorted representation of society as a whole if we were to say everyone or most people are like this. The fact is, if you get caught out a couple of times it’s different, but I know of many people who ONLY do relationships where they can be rescued. If you (not you but people in general) find yourself habitually in the same situation with different guys, you are the common denominator so you must ask what you are doing to contribute. Like you said, lack of boundaries and not recognising the red flag of pity hunting were a couple of things that drew you into that dynamic

[caregiver218]

Sorry for the "novel" of a post.

Just beyond me how people are....and makes me truly worry there is something wrong with me.

 

I have ordered some books that were recommended about dating a narcissist and an unavailable man, etc.

 

BUT I would be very interested in any self-help programs, books, research that would help ME and my too nice/caregiving personality.

I would love to better myself in many areas in my life!

[Redhead14]

I posted a concern about a gentleman I had met about 3 months ago. (introduced by a mutual friend). In some of the replies I had received, it mentioned the Florence Nightingale Syndrome.

 

Reading into this it isn't all relating to my personality type. I mean, we all have "issues" and we want to find someone that "helps" with those...makes them better, makes us better, brings joy into our life, etc.

 

I am confused on this topic, since I see myself not as a full blown Florence Nightingale personality. I AM a caregiver....I help those in need because I know what it is like to NOT have help or anyone when you need it the most. Do I overly help....maybe....sometimes for the ones I care about the most BUT do I want the broken and the drama that their poor pity me parties...NOT AT ALL!

That is where I am quite the opposite.

 

I was married to my high school sweetheart, dated since middle school. He cheated and justified it as "we never experienced life". We had a business, a big house, lots of land and we had everything we ever wanted. We divorced and ended on good terms.

I spent most of my life raising my kids and being involved in my career and my children and volunteer work, etc. I only dated when I felt I had the time or just flat out wanted to.

 

I have only "dated" a handful of gentleman since my divorce. I have had a lot of one time dates, set-ups, etc. I am a serious, loyal person when I find someone to invest my time in (being a single mom and businesswoman, I value my time...and respect others time as well).

 

I became a very independent, strong and confident businesswoman that made her way in a "man's business world". Like most (females/males), I have had my insecure moments, my bad moments, my need to help others and lose myself in the process sometimes. I have worked hard on trying to be a better person. (WE ARE ALL FAULTED in some way)

 

I pride myself in not wanting drama in my life. I am a too trusting person and I do see the good in everyone (to an extent) - and I feel like in this world, these are now BAD TRAITS to have!!! (sigh) I am not a jealous person, I pretty much try to be the person I would like to have in my life. (the good the bad the ugly)

 

The man I recently met and have gotten completely away from...was different from any others I have known/met before. From our first "date" (remember, we had just met) he talked nonstop about the crazy horrible psycho "bitches" he had (two main ones he talked about), about losing his parents, about how he lost everything in a divorce, how his ex just up and left with his kids one day and how she is remarried and had kids with the new guy and how she now cooks and cleans and is seemingly happy. On and on and on about all the bad in his life. FIRST DATE!!!

 

I should have walked...I know...but I stayed because I generally liked him. We had so much of the some interests/hobbies (well, so it seemed...come to find out later, we never did any of those things).

 

He was depressed, he had anxiety thru the roof, he had a nervous stomach, he made everything in his life stressful and complicated (HE MADE HIS LIFE THAT WAY).

By date four (which HE had to see me everyday since we met...and to be honest, I enjoyed it), he told me that he "knew my type....knew that I was always looking for the next best thing and that I used guys as stepping stones". He couldn't have been more WRONG about me. I asked him what in the world would make him think that....he told me it was the way I looked, the vehicle I drove (all for attention) and that I am always looking at guys.

First....I was just in shock. I told him my struggles in life, how I had lost everything and had to work HARD being a single mom (with no support or help from my ex) to get out in the workforce again (was a stay at home mom and worked with our business). That my vehicle was the only thing I had ever bought for myself, it fits my lifestyle with the kids, friends, family, etc. My looks...well....I can't help that (no plastic surgery, no make-up and in fact, the first week of him seeing me, I had been fighting a horrible sinus infection and wore jeans or my work dress slacks).

Second...I didn't get upset and walk away...LIKE I SHOULD HAVE (I know, I know).

 

In the 3 months of being with him, yes, of course there had been good times, but most of the time I was walking on eggshells with him. I couldn't do ANYTHING (nothing at all) right in his eyes. Wearing his hat on a hike, I wore it wrong and was going to embarrass him or mess it up. Cutting up food for dinner...I was cutting the mushrooms too small, using the wrong spoon to stir, etc. Cleaning his kitchen and vacuuming his floor...I couldn't do it right...he would actually come and take the rag or vacuum from him, stop what he was in the middle of and take over.

I could go on and on.....

 

Did I feel sorry for his past yes. Did I want to make his life better..of course! I told him some horrible times in my past, but he would just tell me that those weren't that bad and not even close in comparison to his past hardships. I constantly had to hear about his past, past girlfriends, ex, all this bad stuff. On the flip side, I always had to hear about how many "younger" girls were after him, how he could have anyone that he wasn't looking when we met (funny because our mutual friend said that this guy was telling him he had given up on finding a good woman with the some interests as him and took care of herself and was confident and independent). -- Our friend that he described me to a T and I definitely needed to meet him.

 

I seriously think this guy was so afraid of me...I think he was insecure and had been so hurt, that he had to act to horrible towards me for some weird mental reason. He could be on his phone 24/7, if I picked up my phone once, the rude hateful comments started ('soo you are on facebook again...you are one of those types always posting ****' or 'talking to your next prospect'?) --- both were nonsense. When in reality maybe HE was the one doing all of that?? I mean, afterall, he had his own business, would work from coffee shops or his house at any time he wanted. He had tons of girls he talked to and even one that he had place a restraining order against at some point and he never changed his number and she wrote him one day saying she had a baby and was married AND HE REPLIED and still talks to her!!! WHAT????

 

He would drive away and leave me standing outside of a store, if he went off over something. He would walk away, he would call me every name in the book, he would be so hateful and hurtful. I "called him out" on numerous things and tried to get him to understand things couldn't stay this way if he wanted it to work. Well come to find out (from this wonderful forum) that he had a lot of Narcissist Personality traits. Now...I am FAR (FAR) from perfect but I couldn't stand everything being turned around on me, walking on eggshells and not doing anything right and the constant threats of he can have whoever he wants, etc. 3 months of that...I knew I didn't want that for a lifetime. So I walked away. I know what I don't want in my life. I know my self-worth.

 

Anyway....I am not certain if I qualify as the Florence Nightingale Syndrome. But I will admit I to care too much, I do like to help people. BUT I don't want a man in my life I need to "change". I haven't had anything traumatic in my past which most women with this syndrome have had.

 

Any thoughts on how I can NOT attract another man like I just got away from. (((well in a sense...I didn't attract him, we were introduced, and from the first date, he was persistent on seeing each other every day))).

 

Just so concerned now about the types of people out there!

 

First of all, nothing you wrote above suggests Florence Nightingale

Syndrome even remotely.

 

Second of all, it's not about not attracting certain types, it's about identifying them and not allowing yourself to get too involved when you realize it.

 

Thirdly, when you first start dating anyone, it is not wise to spend every day with them. If they push for that, slow them down. Accept a date once a week in the beginning with a few calls in between.

 

If you allow yourself to get immersed in a new relationship quickly, it becomes more difficult to push away when you start to realize that there are some issues with a particular man.

 

The key is to get to know them gradually, allow some space to reflect on things your noticing and that helps you to keep from becoming emotionally attached to the point where you feel the need to help them.

 

All that being said, if this man was a true narcissist, the issue is not about you at all. Narcissists are very clever and can draw a woman in very easily. They are manipulative and use techniques that make the woman question her own sense of self and being. And, they are difficult to "get away" from.

 

I suspect you've been "hypnotized" into thinking you are the one with a the problem. This is very common. Be strong and be yourself. You are fortunate to have gotten away from this man. They will often haunt a woman for quite a long time.

 

Go out and date. Enjoy the dates one at a time and be yourself and a little wiser and trust your gut as much as possible. And, try not to project the past into current situations. It's ok to be wary, but let each one show you who they are and over time.

[BluEyeL]

To avoid this in the future, start working on your self esteem. It'll take a while. The second a man started to attack me verbally that way, I'm out of there. I don't care about why and his troubles.

 

I dated someone similar, went out four times. When he started to tell me crap about myself and put me down, I wasn't trying to change his mind about me, I just immediately left and never spoke to him again. So, in the future, that's what you do.

[GemmaUK]

Hello you!

 

 

I just want to say that it's good to see you with another thread up and especially a moving on one.

 

 

I'm a long way ahead in terms of understanding why my ex did what he did now at 2 years down the line.

However, when I did get rid of him I only had a few short weeks of just feeling free before I had a bit of a household trauma at home (huge flood) which occupied several months of my time and my thoughts so I didn't even get around to thinking of my ex or questioning anything that happened until almost a year after splitting from him.

 

 

I think you would be a walkover if you were a Florence. I don't think 3 months with someone and then ending it after having gut reactions and then asking the 'what is this all about?' is a Florence.

Til death - yes, maybe a Florence but after just three months I just can't say that as I think you had to go through the 'this is me and this is you and let's go out and get to know each other'.

Much of the time getting to know someone isn't all serious talk, you may be watching a film, eating a meal, out with friends, doing an activity so not each and every meeting is heavy duty if you see what I mean.

 

 

I've read many books. I started out with How to Avoid a Dangerous Man Before Getting Involved by Sandra L. Brown.

My ex was in a few chapters of the book to various degrees. Each chapter is about a different type of man: Clingy, unavailable, cheaters, liars, physical abusers.

Each section had a very quick one line per item check list of things to look out for.

It was pretty good but didn't really give me answers to my questions and not really much help (aside from the checklists) for things to look out for.

 

 

I read The Jealousy Game by Mandy White a free Kindle short read which takes you from charming man to killer within about a 2 hour read. For shock value and good grief what am I doing here value it's a great read!

 

 

I've read some other books, The Gift of Fear (which was OK but essentially wasn't what I needed really I read Men are From Mars years ago when a friend was getting rid of it and she gave it to me. It was too full of the word 'problem' for me and didn't seem to gather that it's not just men who need/want to go in their cave and just get some peace and quiet.

My gut instinct found it a bit sexist to be honest.

 

 

What I needed was something to tell me why he was how he was with me and how to spot someone else who could be trouble much sooner. Every person is different so you never know how they will appear when you first meet them and the few dates/weeks that follow.

 

 

I got my answers with Toads and the Women Who Kiss Them and I know that is one you have ordered. It's a great read, enlightening and explained it all for me.

 

 

I have been reading another book too called The Jerk Radar by Steve McCrea

I found it by accident on this site: Domestic Abuse Information

It has had me hooked the past few days and is very comprehensive even down to tiny details. I've said 'NO!' out loud a few times while reading it.

 

 

It also has ways to ask questions and probe into things he says and to question things vocally much more.

 

 

Something which is very clear in this book and Toads and in all those I have read is that you must listen to your gut instinct and act upon it.

If something seems to small to sweat over then write it down and the next time you get a gut instinct write it down too. It probably won't take long before you have a list valid enough to walk away from a potential hazard to your life.

[badpenny]

My mother once said to me too, "The trouble with you, *badpenny*, is that you see the good in everyone."

 

I can totally, but totally equate with your impression that somehow nowadays, that's a vice!

 

What the heck ever happened to projecting niceness to people?

Would anyone dare say that to the Dalai Lama? "The trouble with you, Tenzin, is that you see the good in everyone..."

 

No, I don't think they would.

 

But here's the difference.

Whether we realise it or not, or deny it, or consider it unjust, incorrect or mistaken - The DL doesn't have an agenda.

 

Most people who 'see the good in everyone', do.

 

You need to research the difference between Idiot Compassion and Wise Compassion.

It took me a while, but the distinction smacked me between the eyes like a medicine ball.

it may not do the same to you, but sometimes, we're nice, or we 'see the good in everyone' because we believe it's a virtue that SHOULD be cultivated.

And essentially, actually, it is.

 

Facebook and the internet are replete with the types of videos showing random acts of kindness, unexpected virtues in people where none was foreseen.

Sadly, they're still unusual enough to evoke tears in our eyes, and a gushy feeling in our hearts... and then we wipe our eyes, sigh, and carry on with our crabby old day, forgetting all about the wonder of genuine empathy in people, who see the good, because they ARE the good.

 

But why then, when we try to be nice, and see the good in others, do we get taken advantage of? Why does it come back and kick us in the ass?

 

Because we overstep the limit of how far our goodness should go.

THAT'S when 'Wise Compassion' transforms into the Idiot variety.

 

Because we don't know when enough is enough. Or rather, we might, but then we don't want to appear contrary, cruel, false... we don't wish to be accused of being a 'fair-weather friend' or of being superficial and deceitful in our intentions.

And we think that taking our power back is not a nice thing to do.

We strive to continue cultivating Compassion, little realising that it's not always dressed in pink and fluff, and sparkles and tinkly music.

 

Sometimes, Compassion is a slap across the face with a wet kipper.

 

Idiot Compassion keeps people stuck, because it provides a prop, tacit approval of the state they're in, a consent for them to keep behaving as they do, and relying on you to carry both their weight, AND the can.

 

Idiot Compassion always has an agenda, because when we receive that kick in the pants, we complain, lament and cry "What have I done to deserve this? I was trying so hard, I was a real and genuine friend, and they go and do *this* to me! Not fair!"

idiot Compassion often means we get hurt too, and nothing is resolved for the other person.

 

Wise Compassion enables.

Wise Compassion assists by tuning the responsibility for who they are and what they do, back on them.

Wise Compassion reaches out, loves and helps, but recognises dependency and projection.

Wise Compassion isn't always Apple Pie.

Wise Compassion doesn't say, "What can I do to help you?" but "What can we do together to give you what you need to get you out of this mess?"

 

I don't think that guy was afraid of you.

I think he had a bitter, jaundiced prejudice against women, bordering on psychotic Misogyny, and he felt you were taking his crap, which empowered his opinions.

Your calm exterior and genuine care was misinterpreted as doormat behaviour.

 

Narcissists aren't 'afraid' of people. They simply don't care enough about them to BE afraid. It doesn't compute with them that anything could POSSIBLY threaten them.

 

He now thinks you're like all the rest. You just proved his point about women. (I'm talking about HIS frame of mind, opinion and attitude.)

so any good you might have done was frankly water off a duck's back. He wouldn't know his mistakes if they stabbed him in the eye with a limp lettuce. As far as he's concerned, it's everybody else, and never him.

 

Compassion of any kind was wasted on this man, but the Compassion you had for him was misguided. That's not your fault, that's how you've learnt to apply it.

 

How do you therefore develop Wise Compassion?

Simple.

You evaluate your own agendas, and where YOU need your compassion support and a leg-up, for yourself. You put you first, but not in a selfish way. In a self-preserving way.

You establish your boundaries, healthily and decide what you stand for, and won't stand for.

You show the world the face of your boundless Compassion.

But you show it in a way that demonstrates that it's a precious commodity and not to be messed with.

And above all, you harness your own goodness, care consideration and Love, for yourself, primarily, first and foremost.

because only when you've got it in the bag for you, can you ever hope to project it successfully for others.

 

yes, there are thousands of wonderful men out there.

But the answer of how to attract them, lies in the questions you ask yourself.

[caregiver218]

 

I suspect you've been "hypnotized" into thinking you are the one with a the problem. This is very common. Be strong and be yourself. You are fortunate to have gotten away from this man. They will often haunt a woman for quite a long time.

 

Thank you! Those are all good points. And YES to the above!!! I didn't get away easily and I am not out of the woods with him yet. I finally gotten my belongings that I had left at his house (I never stayed there...just items I left there from trips, etc). But he did hold some items "hostage" and I am thinking (from doing some NPD research) that he did this on purpose thinking that is a link to me. Little does he realize.....I KNOW MY WORTH and my self-esteem is pretty good, so that little petty stuff...he can have. I will never call him for it and I will not respond if he calls/text.

 

He did want me to be his friend and didn't know why I was walking away. If I had a mean bone in my body, I would have asked him why he needed another "selfish crazy bitch" in his life.

 

Such a shame....I wonder what happens to people to give them this type of mental nonsense? They MUST know and see that all it does is hurt them and anyone that is in their lives.

 

I ended it on good terms and told him I wish him the best and to please no longer contact me. So far, so good. I am hopeful that he won't -- that's my positive thinking!

[caregiver218]

like it or not you rewarded bad behavior. he behaved badly. you rewarded it which made you an enabler for three months.

 

Sadly, yes I see that now! No excuses on my part. I was in complete shock the first few times and I made excuses...his sad/bad past, his depression, etc etc. I I talked to him ALL THE TIME to get help, take medication to calm his mind, that he couldn't be so hurtful/hateful... that just made it worse. I gave him the benefit of the doubt more than he deserved. LESSON LEARNED. Never again.

[Gary S]

It's not Florence Nightingale syndrome, you are just a giver, perhaps a pleaser (google that term).

 

You just need to find a nice man, one who is not a control freak, who loves you and does not take you for granted.

 

You have a good attitude. But you must understand, that not everyone, particularly narcissist men, have the same good attitude as you do.

 

I wish I could find one like you. Most men want your type but don't know it, most men don't know what they really need. It's a confusing world we live in.

 

Date nice men who love you more and you'll never have a problem.

[caregiver218]

 

I think you would be a walkover if you were a Florence. I don't think 3 months with someone and then ending it after having gut reactions and then asking the 'what is this all about?' is a Florence.

Til death - yes, maybe a Florence but after just three months I just can't say that as I think you had to go through the 'this is me and this is you and let's go out and get to know each other'.

Much of the time getting to know someone isn't all serious talk, you may be watching a film, eating a meal, out with friends, doing an activity so not each and every meeting is heavy duty if you see what I mean.

 

 

 

Thank you!!! I will add those books to my To-Read list!!! Always a great help! I can NOT say it enough...so glad I was so confused that I wrote into this forum, everyone has been a HUGE help.

 

That was my thought.....almost 3 months of "dating", that should be movies, going out with friends, doing common interest stuff, etc. With him, it was a few sittings at a coffee shop, no movies, only a few dinners out (all of which ended horribly), always doing what he wanted, working on the house he had bought to fix up, etc. (sigh) -- I definitely KNEW better and I KNOW that I will never put up with or want to go through the mental, insane craziness I did with him. Reading into this stuff, I am grateful to have walked away when I did, as most situations end horribly or you never can leave, etc.

[Gary S]

Yeah, if you only stayed in the relationship 3 months, you don't have a problem. If you were married for years to that type of man, that would be a different story.

 

Sometimes you have a date for a few months until you really get to know them, it's natural, don't beat yourself up over it.

[caregiver218]

It's not Florence Nightingale syndrome, you are just a giver, perhaps a pleaser (google that term).

 

You just need to find a nice man, one who is not a control freak, who loves you and does not take you for granted.

 

You have a good attitude. But you must understand, that not everyone, particularly narcissist men, have the same good attitude as you do.

 

I wish I could find one like you. Most men want your type but don't know it, most men don't know what they really need. It's a confusing world we live in.

 

Date nice men who love you more and you'll never have a problem.

 

That makes me feel good, that is a true day brightener...THANK YOU!

 

I came from a family of givers and pleasers....we always help those in need, we "in a sense" do without to give to those who need it more. (I know that is a fault...he even told me that because of that and the fact I see the good in people, that I was narrow-minded). I was raised with those values and I really do not see me changing that about me.

I was just introduced to a "bad" one this go around and maybe I needed to see that in people...it was a life lesson...and lesson learned.

 

"if you expect the world to be fair with you because you are fair, you're fooling yourself. That's like expecting the lion not to eat you because you didn't eat him."

---one of my favorite quotes while making my way to my career!

 

And many men/women truly do not know what they want. Which I may never understand. Like in this case, he confided in our mutual friend exactly what he was wanting/needing in his life...our friend told him he knew the perfect person, that he described me perfectly....he gets that and from the start, it wasn't good. If that is what you wanted, why didn't you cherish it, treat it like you never wanted to lose it? It just baffles me but I am moving on and not letting it take up too much of my thoughts. It was obviously an issue within himself.

 

It is INDEED a very confusing world we live in. Very much so. It's like there is no room for those good kind-hearted people.

[Gary S]

I see the good in people,(

 

- I have a lady friend that says the exact same thing about herself. She's a widow, lost her husband to cancer. Sometimes I share my dating stories with her. She says, "I'm just going to live my life vicariously through you and your wonderful and funny dating stories!" - so cute! She's a social worker. You are in good company

[devilish innocent]

You might also want to read the book "How to Avoid Falling in Love with a Jerk" by John Van Epp. I like that the author was a professor who studied relationships, so a lot of the ideas in the book are based on actual research.

 

Anyway, I remember reading your post the other day. I think it's great that you're leaving this guy and doing some research on the matter. The thing that struck me was that you started that thread by saying you were with a great guy, and the only issues that you'd had were two fights. Then it turned out that you had to always walk on eggshells around him, which contradicts both of those things. Especially as you were able to provide plenty of examples why you had to walk on eggshells. You must be somebody who wants to see the best in everybody, but knowing how to recognize toxic people and protect yourself is important.

 

That's why I think it's important to take your time entering into a new relationship. The early part of a relationship should be about getting to know the person and determining if they are a good match. I think you will know better next time.

 

I don't know of any books to suggest for help with your personality. One thing I would recommend though is just deciding to make your own happiness a priority. I think sometimes people are afraid that it is selfish, but there is nothing wrong with it. You can be a good person to others, but still be good to yourself as well. You just have to decide you are worth it.

[GemmaUK]

Yeah, if you only stayed in the relationship 3 months, you don't have a problem. If you were married for years to that type of man, that would be a different story.

 

Sometimes you have a date for a few months until you really get to know them, it's natural, don't beat yourself up over it.

 

 

This is pretty much where I was getting at.

You are not Florence, you are emotionally generous.

You will see that term in the Toads book.

 

 

For you and me we have never encountered this type of guy before..

When I was dating my odd guy it was baffling, stressful and exhausting.

I was wrong all of the time just always..always.

 

 

I have been a TOTAL REBEL this last week....ha!

I wore earrings two days this week.

I know, I am a total floozy and that I am attention seeking by wearing 3 milimetre plain round silver studs (one in each ear) but sometimes you have to let loose and ditch the TWIT who tells you earrings are inappropriate and will make your male colleagues insist upon having sex with you......................

 

 

You will have a similar story..I know it.

 

 

The one I posted is my funniest looking back, but there were many many more which I can't laugh about.

[GemmaUK]

Thank you! Those are all good points. And YES to the above!!! I didn't get away easily and I am not out of the woods with him yet. I finally gotten my belongings that I had left at his house (I never stayed there...just items I left there from trips, etc). But he did hold some items "hostage" and I am thinking (from doing some NPD research) that he did this on purpose thinking that is a link to me. Little does he realize.....I KNOW MY WORTH and my self-esteem is pretty good, so that little petty stuff...he can have. I will never call him for it and I will not respond if he calls/text.

 

He did want me to be his friend and didn't know why I was walking away. If I had a mean bone in my body, I would have asked him why he needed another "selfish crazy bitch" in his life.

 

Such a shame....I wonder what happens to people to give them this type of mental nonsense? They MUST know and see that all it does is hurt them and anyone that is in their lives.

 

I ended it on good terms and told him I wish him the best and to please no longer contact me. So far, so good. I am hopeful that he won't -- that's my positive thinking!

 

I thought I'd come back and give possible answers to some of your questions here.

I'm glad you got your stuff back. I knew he would hold some of it hostage though, my ex did too but I wasn't aware of quite what it was for a long while.

My ex used to suggest I leave half my clothes at his parents place (we were long distance and he lived over 200 miles away. I only went up there once a month as he came to visit me once a month also so to me leaving stuff at his folks' house was pointless to me.

Once he realised I wouldn't leave clothes he would spot things and suggest I leave this and that - a travel hairdryer, a mirror, make up, a robe, earrings but I always packed everything when I went left.

 

 

A few months after we split he unfriended me on FB.

Bear with me as there is some backstory to explain what is was he had of mine that he held hostage and how I discovered what it was. The backstory also exposes some more of his weirdness. It's also the first time I've told anyone all of this too so is a good little bit of therapy for me if you don't mind a bit of a read!

 

 

I had been chatting with a friend (I'll call her Amy) who was on the site where I met him it was a small UK dating/friendship type place.

Amy was someone he had told me he often talked to about our relationship while we were together (he had 4 female friends (two of them were happily loved up and in good strong relationships and both me and my ex knew and were friends with their partners too) on the site who he told me he was close to and often met for lunch with, spoke on the phone, emailed etc.).

I didn't have any issues with that at all and I knew the women too, they were all friends.

Anyway, I found out from Amy that he never had met her for lunch/coffees etc and that they never had chats either. She told me that just a couple of weeks after I ended it with him.

As time went on I found this out about all of these women -- he had just made it all up. Looking back on why he lied about his closeness to them I realised that it was an isolation tactic (common with abusers) as he knew that if he was confiding in someone that I would let that person be his confidante and not go to them myself.

 

 

As it was, I have no family in the UK and I was seeing less of my local friends as I was either with him on a weekend, catching up with housework when I wasn't with him on a weekend or I was working late, exhausted and always expected to be on a call with him each evening.

So basically I didn't speak to anyone about the RS in any detail as I had no free time/not enough time to do so.

 

 

Anyway, he unfriended me because after we split I had spoken to Amy about what had happened in our RS as she had asked me about it and we spoke on the phone a few times over about 2-3 weeks after the split. I 'think' that she must have spoken to him about what I had said.

In the June he began dating Amy. I pretty much twigged something was going on with them as she sent me a couple of mails in early June asking how I handled it when he would go radio silent (though she said they weren't dating) - I reiterated that he was never once radio silent with me. After that she didn't contact me again and hasn't since.

It seemed odd as he had said previously that he wasn't attracted in any way to her (which seemed an odd thing to say in itself) when he met her IRL at a party in February which I went to also.

He actually said some not very nice at all things about Amy and I defended her and said he was being needlessly mean.

 

 

In around late June/early July one of the other women Susan was in contact with me, she was having a rough time of things and I was lending an ear and giving her some support.

 

 

After my ex had unfriended me Susan briefly said something unrelated to me or my ex but brought up the subject of Facebook and Susan then dropped this into her conversation with me, she said 'I don't know why you never said anything to your ex about all those photos, I wouldn't have been happy about them'.

 

 

She continued to talk but I cut in and asked her what she meant.

She said 'the photos...of you..all over his Facebook page'.

 

 

I had no idea what she was talking about so I logged in to FB while I was on the Skype call with her and looked up my ex.

I couldn't see any pics of me but she insisted they were there...still there after we had split at Easter.

She ended up doing a screen shots and mailing them all to me so I could see.

 

 

I was totally stunned to find that there were 22 photos of me on view to all of his friends on his FB page and Susan said they had been on view for months - people had commented on the pics in late October of the previous year (we had met and began dating in the September of that year).

 

 

These were mostly shots which were taken by my long term ex back when we were living together and in our early 30's - my LT ex was at the time doing a portrait photography course and I was one of the subjects as well as various friends and some of his classmates. The shots were fully clothed and not indecent in any way but were posed 'model' type shots.

 

 

These pics were over 10 years old.

 

 

I had had them hidden from public view in a private photos folder on my FB account. I showed him the private folder just once, there were other pics in there too and he asked if he could save 2 of them (recent ones) so he could have some nice pics of me on his phone and lappy.

 

 

I did notice he had another pic on his phone that he had saved from that folder too but I had no idea that he had saved the lot!

 

 

None of our mutual friends had told me the pics were there as they thought I had always been able to see them too - it turned out that he had them on view to all but me.

 

 

I contacted my ex to ask why he had them on there and politely asked him politely to take them down.

He ignored me.

 

 

Susan's curiosity got the better of her about a week later and unbeknown to me she asked her teenage son to look my ex up (he and my ex were not friends on FB).

She called me straight away and told me that her son could see the photos too. They were not only visible to just his friends they were visible to anyone who clicked on his page. Again, she took screen shots and sent me them to prove he could see them.

 

 

I tried again to see if I could see anything as I thought maybe he had changed the settings of who could see them. I still couldn't see anything at all.

He had obviously set them to public view but had also set that I was the only one who couldn't see them.

 

 

I mailed him again to ask he take them down.

He didn't ignore this time but responded with just the words 'Get over yourself!'

 

 

It took another 7 weeks for him to take the pics off public and private view.

I sent him another 4 emails and was civil and polite in each one, he replied and gave me several excuses - forgotten password, broken laptop, lack of time to remove them. Then he said that he had no idea what I was on about as he had no photos of me on his FB at all (WTF! Lol!).....just about every excuse.

The last mail I sent I said I would report to FB (though I have no idea whether they would have done anything about the pics). His last words to me were that I was delusional, self absorbed and a psycho b*tch.

That night Susan checked and the photos were all removed from friends and from public view.

 

 

So, he had my photos hostage since we split in early April to the end of August. I just had no idea they were being held hostage.

 

 

 

My ex also wanted to be 'great friends' when we split. In the first few days he was even talking of visiting me. When my flood happened in May he offered to come and help but I stopped him. I had contacted him as he had fiddled around with something at my place and I wanted to know if what he had done could have had any impact on the pipes in my house.

When my assessor was here my ex was texting me during the appointment telling me what to say to the guy!!

A week after the flood I stopped contact as my ex was wording his texts in a way that I just knew he was working up to wanting to get back together.

 

 

He was also posting things on the forum of the dating/friends site which were just too close to the mark to not be about me at the time.

 

 

The last I heard from him before I knew about the photos was a solitary text where he ranted at me and complained because he had been reading back over old threads on that forum and he spotted that I had posted 'single again' on the day I split with him.

 

 

I hadn't posted anything else relating to him except for that as no way did I want any trouble on the forum, nor any public arguments for all to see.

 

 

He ranted on this text and his words were 'You are not allowed to post that you are single. I don't want anyone knowing we have broken up. It's way too soon to say you are single. You were way out of line by posting that!'.

 

 

These guys don't know that they are being nasty to their partners, I fully believe they think their behaviour is normal.

Plus, from what I can gather of he and Amy he was a different type of controller with her - he had been clingy and needy/demanding with me yet he was 'unavailable guy' who controls by giving breadcrumbs to Amy. I did learn that she really had a thing for him and she was expecting him to treat her like he did me. They dated for about 2 weeks. I don't know the reason it ended nor which one of them ended it and probably never will.

Both Amy and he pretty much went off the radar of our friends circle once they split.

 

 

I'm so pleased for you that you recognised but more importantly questioned what on earth your ex was up to.

I wish I had done the same and wish I had been on here back at the time.

 

 

There's some great people on here and they tell it like it is. It makes life much less confusing when you have back up to fall on like that but you are emotionally in it and just baffled!

The problem is that these guys are so very subtle when they start out and have you as a 'project/narc supply'. That is one of the main reasons they are so difficult to fathom.

 

 

I also don't doubt that your ex was a great guy when you met him, mine was too.

If/when he does contact you just stick to your guns and ignore him. From now on consider him junk mail.

 

Sorry for that epic post - but it's damn good to have all that off my chest! : I've never dealt with anything like this before in any kind of relationship with anybody and hope never to again.

Edited April 11, 2015 by GemmaUK