How/When do you usually escalate to having sex?

[difficult_decisions]

Hi. I'm new to the forum and I felt like joining due to a recent situation.

 

I just recently dated a girl that I was seeing for a little over a month that didn't pan out. During our dates we would be intimate, hold hands and have make-out sessions.

 

Now that I recollect everything I was coming off as a "nice guy". I'm looking for something more than just casual dating and I think she was looking for a fling because she happened to be out of a 5 year relationship.

 

I had an opportunity once when I suggested I pick her up from her place. The night ended and I drove her back. We made out like usual, but she didn't offer me to come inside. I wasn't going to ask, and I couldn't take her back to my place because I still live at home.

 

My question to you all is when do you guys escalate and how would you have done it in my situation, or in general?

[fitnessfan365]

I'd guess that women in general are terrified of coming off as easy. So in the beginning, they're probably not going to straight up invite you in. However, they'll hint by making out with you in front of their place. It's up to you to be more assertive and go after what you want. I would have walked her to the front door, started making out with her on her porch, and then told her that we should take it somewhere a bit more private.

 

But I gotta be honest man. Even though you could learn to be a bit more assertive, you sound like you're a victim of your own insecurity. Guys online these days are so obsessed with not being labeled "nice". Since they're not comfortable in their own skin, they try so hard to be the opposite of what they think turns women off. However, what turns the woman off ultimately is that the guy isn't being authentic. Women see right through false bravado. Now it probably didn't help that she was out of a five year relationship. But, in the end you just need to be more comfortable in your own skin and be yourself.

 

In my opinion, there are two types of "nice". There is the "nice" where a guy acts like a push over, is afraid to be himself, isn't sexually assertive, and lacks overall confidence. Then there is the "nice" that women actually like. A gentleman with balls that treats her well, but goes after what he wants and keeps her in check with wit, playful humor, and occasional smacks on the ass. Women want "nice guy" number two. That's what they're referring to on their online profiles. So be a nice guy, but just be one that is confident, comfortable, and a bit cocky.

[difficult_decisions]

I'd guess that women in general are terrified of coming off as easy. So in the beginning, they're probably not going to straight up invite you in. However, they'll hint by making out with you in front of their place. It's up to you to be more assertive and go after what you want. I would have walked her to the front door, started making out with her on her porch, and then told her that we should take it somewhere a bit more private.

 

But I gotta be honest man. Even though you could learn to be a bit more assertive, you sound like you're a victim of your own insecurity. Guys online these days are so obsessed with not being labeled "nice". Since they're not comfortable in their own skin, they try so hard to be the opposite of what they think turns women off. However, what turns the woman off ultimately is that the guy isn't being authentic. Women see right through false bravado. Now it probably didn't help that she was out of a five year relationship. But, in the end you just need to be more comfortable in your own skin and be yourself.

 

In my opinion, there are two types of "nice". There is the "nice" where a guy acts like a push over, is afraid to be himself, isn't sexually assertive, and lacks overall confidence. Then there is the "nice" that women actually like. A gentleman with balls that treats her well, but goes after what he wants and keeps her in check with wit, playful humor, and occasional smacks on the ass. Women want "nice guy" number two. That's what they're referring to on their online profiles. So be a nice guy, but just be one that is confident, comfortable, and a bit cocky.

 

Well said, and you're absolutely right. Not that it matters, but when I got out of my car to walk her to her door, she said "oh you don't really have to!" So I didn't really want to push it anymore than that.

 

I think my issue really is just being more assertive in what I want, without feeling wrong. I'm very aware of the window of opportunities when it's presented, but I hesitate because I think they're feeling uncomfortable about my approach. Sounds absurd I know.

[fitnessfan365]

Well said, and you're absolutely right. Not that it matters, but when I got out of my car to walk her to her door, she said "oh you don't really have to!" So I didn't really want to push it anymore than that.

 

I think my issue really is just being more assertive in what I want, without feeling wrong. I'm very aware of the window of opportunities when it's presented, but I hesitate because I think they're feeling uncomfortable about my approach. Sounds absurd I know.

 

In that instance it was just a matter of logistics. If you had made out with her on her porch instead of in her car, you would have been able to carry the momentum inside. Having to stop and get out of the car slows things down. In that instance though, you actually did the right thing. When she said "You don't have to" it was her way of telling you that was it for the night. So it's good you respected that and acted like a gentleman.

 

But trust me man, I used to be exactly like you. It just takes practice and as you get more experience it starts to come naturally. Years ago before I started dating regularly, I went onto an online dating forum on another site. I would private message as many women as I could just asking them questions. Since they knew I wasn't trying to date them, they'd open up about all sorts of stuff. One thing that the majority said is that they liked more dominant assertive guys. The first time I took a woman against a wall and lifted her off the ground while we were kissing, she BEGGED me to take her to the bedroom. When I realized how natural it felt, and how much I enjoyed it, I was clued into what my true sexual persona was. So from then on out, when I had opportunities, I took what I wanted and embraced being dominant/assertive. Haven't looked back since.

[fllygirl]

Well said, and you're absolutely right. Not that it matters, but when I got out of my car to walk her to her door, she said "oh you don't really have to!" So I didn't really want to push it anymore than that.

 

.

I dont know how old are you, but maybe you need to get your own place. She isn't comfortable inviting to her for whatever reason.

[difficult_decisions]

I dont know how old are you, but maybe you need to get your own place. She isn't comfortable inviting to her for whatever reason.

 

Yes, this has definitely been an issue for me, and trust me, I'm planning on moving out soon. It would've helped in a lot of ways in the past if I had my own place to go back to.

[difficult_decisions]

In that instance it was just a matter of logistics. If you had made out with her on her porch instead of in her car, you would have been able to carry the momentum inside. Having to stop and get out of the car slows things down. In that instance though, you actually did the right thing. When she said "You don't have to" it was her way of telling you that was it for the night. So it's good you respected that and acted like a gentleman.

 

But trust me man, I used to be exactly like you. It just takes practice and as you get more experience it starts to come naturally. Years ago before I started dating regularly, I went onto an online dating forum on another site. I would private message as many women as I could just asking them questions. Since they knew I wasn't trying to date them, they'd open up about all sorts of stuff. One thing that the majority said is that they liked more dominant assertive guys. The first time I took a woman against a wall and lifted her off the ground while we were kissing, she BEGGED me to take her to the bedroom. When I realized how natural it felt, and how much I enjoyed it, I was clued into what my true sexual persona was. So from then on out, when I had opportunities, I took what I wanted and embraced being dominant/assertive. Haven't looked back since.

 

I guess it's trying to balance the nice guy and cockiness aspects. As much as I hate to admit it, I'm starting to get a little jaded with all the dates that didn't pan out the way I wanted them to. I have to go back and recollect all my past dates, and I think it comes down to being dominant.

 

To be a gentleman, confident, and assertive in what I want is a persona that I'm striving for. Thanks for your input

[fitnessfan365]

To be a gentleman, confident, and assertive in what I want is a persona that I'm striving for. Thanks for your input

 

Well when you get there, you'll be just like me. I'm not saying it was easy. It took years of experience and practice finding what worked for me. Back when I was in high school, I was an old soul and couldn't relate to women my own age. So I got friend zoned left and right. Then I got cheated on by my first GF and dumped by my second. So that's when I decided to take seven long years away from dating. Focused on school, work, and my purpose in life. I also spent tons of time talking with women online, in real life, as well as reading books, watching YouTube videos, etc..

 

So when I finally did start dating again at 28, I was a completely different guy and started to have success with women. The only thing that sucks about the last six years is that I had a making up for lost time mentality. So I made a lot of stupid decisions, got too focused on sex and being a player, etc.. It wasn't until I took all of 2014 off from dating that I got in a better mindset. Now for the first time in my life, I have a quality GF that has what I'm looking for in and out of the bedroom. Up until now it was either women that were great in bed, but not long term material or women that I connected with emotionally but not sexually. Luckily I was able to take the last year and really reflect on things. Never thought I'd be able to go a year without sex after having it regularly for five years straight. But it was surprisingly easy after the first few months.

Edited April 9, 2015 by fitnessfan365

[difficult_decisions]

Well when you get there, you'll be just like me. I'm not saying it was easy. It took years of experience and practice finding what worked for me. Back when I was in high school, I was an old soul and couldn't relate to women my own age. So I got friend zoned left and right. Then I got cheated on by my first GF and dumped by my second. So that's when I decided to take seven long years away from dating. Focused on school, work, and my purpose in life. I also spent tons of time talking with women online, in real life, as well as reading books, watching YouTube videos, etc..

 

So when I finally did start dating again at 28, I was a completely different guy and started to have success with women. The only thing that sucks about the last six years is that I had a making up for lost time mentality. So I made a lot of stupid decisions, got too focused on sex and being a player, etc.. It wasn't until I took all of 2014 off from dating that I got in a better mindset. Now for the first time in my life, I have a quality GF that has what I'm looking for in and out of the bedroom. Up until now it was either women that were great in bed, but not long term material or women that I connected with emotionally but not sexually. Luckily I was able to take the last year and really reflect on things. Never thought I'd be able to go a year without sex after having it regularly for five years straight. But it was surprisingly easy after the first few months.

 

I'm surprised this forum doesn't have a private message function. I'd love to pick your brain more haha.

 

I'm 24 and have been single for 4 years now, so I feel like I'm in a similar situation that you've gone through already. I've had a fair share of getting friend zoned in the past and failed dating experiences. Now I find myself doing a lot of research on self-improvement and dating in hopes of improving.

 

I know this is a little off-topic with my current thread, but another thing I want to get better at is balancing the mystery and challenge to spark an attraction without being too distant. I think with my last date, I was cognizant about not being too clingy that I didn't text her enough, but showed too much attraction during our dates.

[fitnessfan365]

I'm surprised this forum doesn't have a private message function. I'd love to pick your brain more haha.

 

I'm 24 and have been single for 4 years now, so I feel like I'm in a similar situation that you've gone through already. I've had a fair share of getting friend zoned in the past and failed dating experiences. Now I find myself doing a lot of research on self-improvement and dating in hopes of improving.

 

I know this is a little off-topic with my current thread, but another thing I want to get better at is balancing the mystery and challenge to spark an attraction without being too distant. I think with my last date, I was cognizant about not being too clingy that I didn't text her enough, but showed too much attraction during our dates.

 

You can send PM's, but you have to be a member for over a month first.

 

However, I've never been a fan of being intentionally mysterious and aloof. I'm way too direct for that crap. The way that I see it is that being direct saves time because it attracts the women that matter and eliminates the ones who aren't ultimately right for me. Having to put on an act to spark attraction isn't really being true to yourself. In the end you want a woman to be attracted to who you are. Not a facade. I think a sign of true self confidence is having the balls to put your true authentic self out there and not give a crap about what happens.

 

Now of course there are some universal personality traits that women find attractive. Confidence, wit, humor, sexual assertiveness, etc.. But the ones that need a guy that is ""mysterious" and "aloof" are way too high maintenance. However, it is true that you don't want to be desperate. Giving a woman the appropriate amount of space can increase her desire which is a good thing. So the key is being independent enough with your own life to not become dependent on her for happiness, while also being consistent enough in her life to show that you care. Finding that balance comes with time and depends on the individual.

[PrettyEmily77]

So the key is being independent enough with your own life to not become dependent on her for happiness, while also being consistent enough in her life to show that you care. Finding that balance comes with time and depends on the individual.

 

Spot on.

 

 

You should think of writing a blog or a book or something; your advice is so simply put, straightforward, totally non judgemental and helpful.

[Ninjainpajamas]

I think your focus shouldn't be so much on how to initiate sex in terms of when or where, because that will come naturally if the desire is there...but instead, assess yourself in questioning what kind of relationship are you building with a woman over the course of a month.

 

Are you not building any kind of genuine connection with her or telling her how you feel? is there chemistry present? do you not have the sexual and romantic tension there? why doesn't the woman want to have sex with you?

 

You of course need to be more assertive, but what does the natural flow tell you. Are you avoiding initiating certain behavior because you lack confidence or need reassurance?

 

If you're just going out on dates to have dates and eventually sex and nothing is being formed and established, and you're just having these make-out sessions once in a while, it doesn't mean you're really forming any significant emotional or psychological bond.

 

Most women just don't react off the physical, but the reason guys are successful with women after they sleep with them is because that's when a lot of women automatically attach...even if you are not the most amazing guy in the world. This is how a lot of women fortify that base level of an emotional connection that you can't establish on your own beforehand...because without that happening by nature, a lot of guys would be screwed. Once that woman is able to formulate that emotional bond then she can start forming her own little thoughts and ideas through her normal regiment, she's passed that roadblock and starts to go down that road of relationship mode.

 

But I would urge you not to be the guy who just tries to stick his penis in there to make it all happen. Be skilled and knowledgeable of what you can do way before the bedroom, that should be your main focus..and then women will be trying to push you into bed.

[fitnessfan365]

But I would urge you not to be the guy who just tries to stick his penis in there to make it all happen. Be skilled and knowledgeable of what you can do way before the bedroom, that should be your main focus..and then women will be trying to push you into bed.

 

Haha.. This could not be more true. That's exactly why I don't rush into sex on dates 1-3. I like to wait 4-6 weeks to have sex for the first time with a woman. Not only because I'm dating multiple women and believe in monogamy, but also because it takes time for me to see if I like a woman enough to want to have full on sex with her. Making out and foreplay is one thing, but actual sex is way more intimate.

 

I like to do a mix of public and private dates. The public end with her dropped off at her place and the private go no further than third base. I get to know her body and what turns her on. By combining dominance and assertiveness with will power and being a gentleman, a woman ends up begging you for sex. It's just that a lot of guys don't have the patience for longer seduction and building a connection. It's just about getting laid. But after you have sex regularly for years, you start to realize that the connection is what truly matters. I mean having a woman you genuinely like out of the bedroom wanting to tear your clothes off is the best experience ever.

Edited April 9, 2015 by fitnessfan365

[Toodaloo]

I have to say that I have been trying to wait a bit with guys before sleeping with them... I want my brain engaged before my nether regions go on a joy ride.

 

I am older than you guys though and to be perfectly honest after sleeping with the same person for many years the thought of being with someone new terrifies me.

 

The way FF describes his attitude and approach I have to say his clothes would be in shreds on date 2/3 if he were that way with me!

 

Everyone likes confidence. Its really attractive. Everyone likes assertiveness. Just be a wee bit careful that you don't follow the pick up artist approach as that is just not great.

[guest569]

I'd guess that women in general are terrified of coming off as easy. So in the beginning, they're probably not going to straight up invite you in. However, they'll hint by making out with you in front of their place. It's up to you to be more assertive and go after what you want. I would have walked her to the front door, started making out with her on her porch, and then told her that we should take it somewhere a bit more private.

 

Oh god no, that is just rude and applying pressure. If a grown woman wants sex and you're both at her house, she will invite you inside if she is comfortable, ready. Dont pressure a woman who has just come out of a 5 yr relationship.

 

The whole "dont want to come off as easy" no. I mean how old is she?

[fitnessfan365]

The way FF describes his attitude and approach I have to say his clothes would be in shreds on date 2/3 if he were that way with me!

 

Everyone likes confidence. Its really attractive. Everyone likes assertiveness. Just be a wee bit careful that you don't follow the pick up artist approach as that is just not great.

 

Haha.. Considering the fact that we'd be in public for at least the first three dates, you'd probably get us arrested for public indecency woman.

 

But I'm not gonna lie. You're a perfect example of why I always dated women that were older than me. Great sense of humor, communication skills, and confidence. If I was single, you'd definitely be a woman making me crave fine wine. I'm direct and more of an old soul. So I always just got along better with them. I never went for "cougars" either. Every older woman I got involved with always stayed in their own age range and made exceptions for me. But in the end, the insecurity and commitment phobia just got to be exhausting. So that's why I finally started going after women my own age and a bit younger.

 

Oh god no, that is just rude and applying pressure. If a grown woman wants sex and you're both at her house, she will invite you inside if she is comfortable, ready. Dont pressure a woman who has just come out of a 5 yr relationship.

 

The whole "dont want to come off as easy" no. I mean how old is she?

 

Isn't part of the attraction for women when a guy knows what they want and acts to make that happen? So if they're making it clear that they want to have sex with how they're acting, letting a guy suggest to go inside, let's her feel like she was seduced. Making out endlessly to the point where she actually has to say 'Let's go inside" is a mood killer. Instead the guy is able to tell what she wants and gently says "Let's take this somewhere more private" and she obliges like the good girl she is. In general though, I don't think it's wrong to assume that women don't want to be used for sex. They want to be appreciated for who they are and protect themselves by not making their desire too obvious early on. That's why they'd rather make their desire known through their actions and have the guy lead.

 

But as I've said before. I wait to have sex with a woman for 4-6 weeks of long term seduction. So by that time, recommending a more private venue wouldn't be putting pressure on her.

Edited April 9, 2015 by fitnessfan365

[Toodaloo]

Haha.. Considering the fact that we'd be in public for at least the first three dates, you'd probably get us arrested for public indecency woman.

 

Thats fine... I know the local cops... I used to date their boss before he retired... They don't like him much either so they would probably cheer me on!

 

You would be walking with a swagger, wearing a ball gown and a glazed look on your face...

 

I so hope I don't have to wait 6 weeks with this chap I am starting to date...

[fitnessfan365]

Thats fine... I know the local cops... I used to date their boss before he retired... They don't like him much either so they would probably cheer me on!

 

You would be walking with a swagger, wearing a ball gown and a glazed look on your face...

 

I so hope I don't have to wait 6 weeks with this chap I am starting to date...

 

Haha.. I suddenly got that image in my mind and can't stop laughing. But it is a lot of fun dealing with a woman that's a bit more aggressive and then seeing the desire come out when I take charge. I think a lot of women have gotten used to having to lead sexually because of timid men they keep meeting.

 

For me, waiting that long is a necessity though. I'm usually dating 3-4 women at a time until I find one I want to focus on and get more serious with. I'm a firm believer in multi-dating because it lets you remain impartial to red flags and bad behavior. You're going to have no problem dropping one that isn't worth your time if you have multiple options. Whereas, you might put up with more if she's your only option.

[Toodaloo]

Haha.. I suddenly got that image in my mind and can't stop laughing. But it is a lot of fun dealing with a woman that's a bit more aggressive and then seeing the desire come out when I take charge. I think a lot of women have gotten used to having to lead sexually because of timid men they keep meeting.

 

For me, waiting that long is a necessity though. I'm usually dating 3-4 women at a time until I find one I want to focus on and get more serious with. I'm a firm believer in multi-dating because it lets you remain impartial to red flags and bad behavior. You're going to have no problem dropping one that isn't worth your time if you have multiple options. Whereas, you might put up with more if she's your only option.

 

See I got myself into a pickle with multiple dating over the weekend so I shall not be doing it again...

 

There are always other options... Lots of shops sell batteries...

[guest569]

Instead the guy is able to tell what she wants and gently says "Let's take this somewhere more private" and she obliges like the good girl she is.

 

Wow.. just wow. That actually makes me feel sick. Obliges like a good "girl"?

 

 

In general though, I don't think it's wrong to assume that women don't want to be used for sex. They want to be appreciated for who they are and protect themselves by not making their desire too obvious early on. That's why they'd rather make their desire known through their actions and have the guy lead.

 

But as I've said before. I wait to have sex with a woman for 4-6 weeks of long term seduction. So by that time, recommending a more private venue wouldn't be putting pressure on her.

 

Yeah, i dont want to be used for sex, hence suspicious of men who force their way into my home and try to have sex with me when I'm not ready. What's so wrong with a woman saying (outside her own home) after a make out session "want to come inside? ;)"

 

Then again, I'm a grown woman, not a "good girl" who needs to be told what to do.

[Justanaverageguy]

See I got myself into a pickle with multiple dating over the weekend so I shall not be doing it again...

 

Yeah I tried the multi dating thing a couple of times the last year and decided also not for me. I personally find it just too much effort to keep those balls in the air and juggle dates and giving enough time to someone you are seeing to make it worth while. I'm busy, I have other commitments and friends to see to be going on lots of dates every week. I also find it can confuse the feelings you have for each girl particularly if you do dates back to back on consecutive days. You don't have any breathing room to digest or even dare I say miss the person you just saw. I find it hard to develop real feelings when multi dating.

 

For me, waiting that long is a necessity though. I'm usually dating 3-4 women at a time until I find one I want to focus on and get more serious with. I'm a firm believer in multi-dating because it lets you remain impartial to red flags and bad behavior. You're going to have no problem dropping one that isn't worth your time if you have multiple options. Whereas, you might put up with more if she's your only option.

 

But I think if you are actually comfortable and confident you can regularly meet new women to date you don't need to have 3 or 4 on the go at one time as multiple options or back up plans. You know you will meet someone else without too many issues - so if this one doesn't work out ... just end it and move on to find someone new. Only time this has caused me issues when I have not taken action with women who I know are interested because I was in the process of beginning to date someone else. If you don't make a move immediately while the iron is hot ..... those options normally cool pretty quickly. So now I will do short term multi dating but I switch pretty quickly back to 1 girl depending on who I liked and connected with the most.

[difficult_decisions]

All of this is really good advice. Thank you all for sharing the input and feedback.

 

Ultimately, at the end of the day, as bummed as I am, I'm happy that I was honest with myself in what I wanted. To be in a relationship. And I feel I displayed that. I just don't want to have that feeling of regret where I have to say, "oh maybe she just wanted to have sex, and I should've escalated sooner"

 

By her saying "you really don't need to walk me to the porch", it's pretty obvious she didn't feel ready, and I was going to have her initiate when she was ready, I guess. All I could do is just show that I was interested physically and emotionally.

 

There could be a million other reasons why she called it off, but the reason I started this topic was because I think this was one of the possibilities.

[Gary S]

I take it not many of you have heard of the 3rd date rule. It's not really a rule, just an average, when everything is going just right.

 

That said, some people wait until marriage. But if you don't see the desire (note I said desire, I'm not saying you should necessarily have sex) for sex in 3-5 weeks, they are probably not really into you.

[Fhsjkfjrhsdh3646]

In my experience - if you're making out, half the battle is won (as long as you're somewhere private). You just need to escalate things very slowly and patiently, you shouldn't just start tearing her clothes off. You need to make her comfortable with touching her clothed first before you can start taking clothes off, and when the clothes come off, then you need to spend some time there before you take her bra/panties off. The rest is pretty straightforward.

 

Like ffan said, you need to hint at going into her place without actually asking to come in. It's easier if you can ask her into your place.

[Gary S]

In my experience - if you're making out, half the battle is won

 

- More like 99.9% there