gettingstronger Posted April 7, 2015 Posted April 7, 2015 Wow. I have no idea why anybody - whatever their "label" - would put up with that kind of treatment! That definitely does fall into the "treat 'em mean, keep 'em keen" category. I always thought that was a myth. Cocorico- really? I see evidence of this type of thing all over the OW/OM board- one poster talking about secretly tagging along on the MM vacation and staying out of sight until he needs her, women waiting days and hours for a call because they can not call the MM, women painfully waiting for the MM to return from family vacation because contact at that time is forbidden- I agree, what I found unusual was the paying her own way thing- I once jokingly (well, half joking) said if I ever had an affair it wouldn't be one of those pay my own way and stay at a Hilton in some no so fun town (he travels for business, she flew herself to Pittsburgh, Cleveland, etc) kind of thing- The staying out of sight was odd too- like she had to wait for him to leave the hotel in the morning before she could go down and eat breakfast- I asked why he did not bring breakfast up for her and he said, he never thought about that- UGH!
Quiet Storm Posted April 7, 2015 Posted April 7, 2015 (edited) beatcuff and now explain the difference between the above and the courting process between available persons. THERE IS NONE. The difference between the courting process & grooming, IMO, is that in the courting process, the pursuer isn't actively exploiting their target's weaknesses or vulnerability. OW are not helpless victims, but many are naïve and genuinely believe what the MM tell them. I think many MM exploit that. I don't think stating that absolves OW of responsibility for participating in the affair. OW shouldn't have fell for MM's bull5hit, but that doesn't mean that MM wasn't exploiting OW by spewing the bull5hit. what BS fail to realize and/or need to move forward is somehow their WS is a helpless victim. The OM/W has these superpowers to "groom" "predator" "affair fog" or whatever term of the month is... and before you say no, read this thread. it is filled with "blame shifting". First, my post that you quoted was about MM grooming OW to be in an affair, not about OW grooming MM. That's what I thought the thread was about- the married person grooming the affair partner. I am not a BS, but I do not think most BS feel their WS is a helpless victim. An affair isn't usually the first sign a WS is dishonest. For many BS, the affair is just the latest instance of WS's dishonesty, impulsivity or conflict avoiding behaviors. This is OW's mistake- thinking WS is an honorable guy and that his lies are circumstantial. these are NOT children. both persons had an idea a line was being crossed at some point and CHOOSE too. every night they came home to the BS and yet CHOOSE to go back. I agree that WS and OW are not children and are responsible for their own choices. But if MM is dangling the carrot of "leaving the marriage" in front of OW's face, while knowing he's never leaving the marriage, that's manipulative. Yes, OW choose to believe a known liar and that choice is certainly not in their best interests. But that doesn't make it OK for MM to lie and manipulate. the more you focus on what the OM/W did the more you lose sight of the issue that the WS was unhappy (fine some are mentally defective). I wouldn't say WS are mentally defective, I'd say that most are emotionally stunted (immature, conflict avoiders, selfish). Emotionally healthy married people who are unhappy try to resolve their issues, ask for an open marriage or divorce. An unhappy WS's choice to cheat (in lieu of other options) means they are OK with lying, sneaking around, risking their family's well being, risking their reputation with family/friends/peers.... all on their quest for personal happiness. Long term relationships ebb & flow, there will be happy times & unhappy times. A person's values don't suddenly go out the window when they become unhappy, you know? Character traits, not unhappiness, led to those choices. Being unhappy doesn't turn a person with integrity into a liar. However, being unhappy gives a person without integrity an excuse to lie & cheat. Edited April 7, 2015 by Quiet Storm 3
Arieswoman Posted April 7, 2015 Posted April 7, 2015 Just for interest..... BBC NEWS | UK | Magazine | When did 'grooming' become a dirty word? and this;- An affair isn't usually the first sign a WS is dishonest. For many BS, the affair is just the latest instance of WS's dishonesty, impulsivity or conflict avoiding behaviors. This is OW's mistake- thinking WS is an honorable guy and that his lies are circumstantial. ^^^ x100 2
angelcake Posted May 17, 2015 Posted May 17, 2015 There is "grooming" and I think that is covered pretty well on this post. Then there is the part I call "training". For example, the WS trains his/her AP when they can and can NOT call/text. They are trained to be alone on holidays, Valentine's Day, birthdays, etc, and to not make waves about it. They are trained to stay loyal to the WS and not date other single people whom may actually have potential "real" relationship with. They are seen as "cheaters" if they don't remain loyal to the WS. They are trained to shut their mouths and not complain when they have reached out for help in a time of need, and got zero response. The AP learns really quickly where there place is. As much as the WS professes their love of AP, the AP figures out they are really alone. If you are the single AP, do yourself a favor and walk away. Find someone who is willing to shout their love of you from the rooftops. Don't be someones back up plan, their dirty little secret. Honor yourself, treat yourself as you deserve and don't waste precious moments on the WS when you could be finding that perfect person. How do I know all of this? I've lived it with a family member, and a friend. Affairs destroy everyone... and yes AP can be victims, they can very well be groomed and trained and then left to fend for themselves when MM/MW walks away, or worse, throws them under the bus. I wonder what the statistics are in terms of who does the pursuing. I would venture to say the "commited" partner chases the single more often that the opposite occurs. But, who knows! I've also seen the other side of it, and how WS behave. My sister had an emotional affair with an old high school flame whom she found on Facebook. She chased him, and went to his house to see him. For months, they messaged on FB, called, texted, he even invited her to his house. She says he turned her down for sex and said he just couldn't do it with a married woman but I don't know the truth of that. It all ended when he went quiet after a few months, and she finally hacked his facebook account and seen where he messaged other women. She ended it, saying he cheated on her by messaging the other women. Then she mourned him for 6 months, lost tons of weight, had a breakdown and nearly tore her family apart. I never could convince her that she had no say in whom he talked to, as she had no "territorial rights" over him if she was still married. She still insists he cheated on her. SMH Yes her husband is terribly controlling and IMO certainly contributed to her doing what she did, but I have to give him credit..he stood by her, never left her side. 2 years later, she is still miserable. She isn't allowed to have a cell phone. She doesn't go places alone, and he monitors her all the time. He quit his job and works from home so that he can watch her (although he wouldn't admit this is the reason). They are just all messed up. She basically lives in a mental prison now. So the WS also suffer, and we don't know the consequences they face once D-Day happens. Affairs are just bad...period!
Got it Posted May 17, 2015 Posted May 17, 2015 There is "grooming" and I think that is covered pretty well on this post. Then there is the part I call "training". For example, the WS trains his/her AP when they can and can NOT call/text. They are trained to be alone on holidays, Valentine's Day, birthdays, etc, and to not make waves about it. They are trained to stay loyal to the WS and not date other single people whom may actually have potential "real" relationship with. They are seen as "cheaters" if they don't remain loyal to the WS. They are trained to shut their mouths and not complain when they have reached out for help in a time of need, and got zero response. The AP learns really quickly where there place is. As much as the WS professes their love of AP, the AP figures out they are really alone. If you are the single AP, do yourself a favor and walk away. Find someone who is willing to shout their love of you from the rooftops. Don't be someones back up plan, their dirty little secret. Honor yourself, treat yourself as you deserve and don't waste precious moments on the WS when you could be finding that perfect person. How do I know all of this? I've lived it with a family member, and a friend. Affairs destroy everyone... and yes AP can be victims, they can very well be groomed and trained and then left to fend for themselves when MM/MW walks away, or worse, throws them under the bus. I wonder what the statistics are in terms of who does the pursuing. I would venture to say the "commited" partner chases the single more often that the opposite occurs. But, who knows! I've also seen the other side of it, and how WS behave. My sister had an emotional affair with an old high school flame whom she found on Facebook. She chased him, and went to his house to see him. For months, they messaged on FB, called, texted, he even invited her to his house. She says he turned her down for sex and said he just couldn't do it with a married woman but I don't know the truth of that. It all ended when he went quiet after a few months, and she finally hacked his facebook account and seen where he messaged other women. She ended it, saying he cheated on her by messaging the other women. Then she mourned him for 6 months, lost tons of weight, had a breakdown and nearly tore her family apart. I never could convince her that she had no say in whom he talked to, as she had no "territorial rights" over him if she was still married. She still insists he cheated on her. SMH Yes her husband is terribly controlling and IMO certainly contributed to her doing what she did, but I have to give him credit..he stood by her, never left her side. 2 years later, she is still miserable. She isn't allowed to have a cell phone. She doesn't go places alone, and he monitors her all the time. He quit his job and works from home so that he can watch her (although he wouldn't admit this is the reason). They are just all messed up. She basically lives in a mental prison now. So the WS also suffer, and we don't know the consequences they face once D-Day happens. Affairs are just bad...period! How is the AP trained on those items? I mean it would usually be stated please don't do x, y, z or (in some way stated) I would need to end the affair. How is the different one person telling another person not to call them at work? Or not to call them on weekends that they have their kids? Usually they are considerations asked for, you either agree or you don't. I don't know, I can't speak on this as I have never had any situations where I felt there was grooming either by me or unto me. Can't say that was an element of our affair. 1
lemoncello Posted May 17, 2015 Posted May 17, 2015 Grooming: 1. People who shampoo your dog or cat for you once a week. 2. What child molesters do. Training: 1. 6 week bootcamp in the army, navy, airforce or marines. 2. What people who work in retail do to learn the cash registers. Seducing: 1. What married men/women do to other married men/women or single men/women when they want to have an affair with that person. Where is all the confusion with the terminology? A married man seduces the other woman either by befriending her or straight up flirting with the other woman. 2
cocorico Posted May 18, 2015 Posted May 18, 2015 Grooming: 1. People who shampoo your dog or cat for you once a week. 2. What child molesters do. Training: 1. 6 week bootcamp in the army, navy, airforce or marines. 2. What people who work in retail do to learn the cash registers. Seducing: 1. What married men/women do to other married men/women or single men/women when they want to have an affair with that person. Where is all the confusion with the terminology? A married man seduces the other woman either by befriending her or straight up flirting with the other woman. Exactly. Perhaps by using the word "grooming" certain people are implying that they see APs as children? Or as dogs? 1
sandylee1 Posted May 18, 2015 Posted May 18, 2015 Agreed - it's more of a seduction, although that is more direct. 'Grooming' just sounds so passive and disgusting. Hope, I agree with a lot of what you say, BUT I think grooming and affairs have something in common - they're both disgusting. 1
minimariah Posted May 18, 2015 Posted May 18, 2015 Perhaps by using the word "grooming" certain people are implying that they see APs as children? Or as dogs? well, it is used as a way to make the A & AP less important... i think. less THAN. to make the feelings and connection in an A less significant. some even view a MM/OW as predators, so there is that.
stillafool Posted May 18, 2015 Posted May 18, 2015 There is no such thing. I absolutely agree. What is it about "I'm married" that the OW doesn't understand? She is responsible for protecting herself, not him. I can understand if she gets involved because he lied about being married but if she knew ahead of time she is just as responsible as him. 3
sandylee1 Posted May 18, 2015 Posted May 18, 2015 Some people are very manipulative in getting someone to have an affair with them or indeed to do anything else they want. The person being manipulated just doesn't realise it. Women have been known to give sob stories of horrible abusive and controlling husbands. All to get a man on side to feel sorry for them and give the affection they apparently aren't getting at home. In most of these type of cases the person chooses someone who is vulnerable, easy to manipulate and has their guard down. I'd call it manipulation or simply being played.
flowergirl14 Posted May 22, 2015 Posted May 22, 2015 Grooming- pretending to be interested in what the other person likes. AKA Lying. My serial cheater H said he wanted to go line dancing with prospective ap. Lie- he hates dancing and country music. 2nd potential ap - claimed to like riding harley d. Motorcycles. Lie- cant stand harley riders. Both of these examples are trivial. The bigger point is a ws will say anything even if they are complete lies to get what they want. If only the ap and bs ever compared notes. It would be laughable. I imagine like a scene from the movie The Other Woman. Cheaters cannot be their true selves so they must lie. They are the most unauthentic people. 1
cocorico Posted May 22, 2015 Posted May 22, 2015 How is the AP trained on those items? I mean it would usually be stated please don't do x, y, z or (in some way stated) I would need to end the affair. How is the different one person telling another person not to call them at work? Or not to call them on weekends that they have their kids? Usually they are considerations asked for, you either agree or you don't. I don't know, I can't speak on this as I have never had any situations where I felt there was grooming either by me or unto me. Can't say that was an element of our affair. Assuming both parties are consenting adults, I don't see how terms like "grooming" or "training" can apply. Both parties have a choice. You either consent, or you don't. Unless you are threatened with something - the loss of your job, no access to your kids, your life, etc - you are free to walk away if you don't like something. And if you are threatened, you have legal recourse. 1
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