How does a MM "groom" the OW?

[cocorico]

There is a ton of articles on the internet on how to seduce MW. One thing that they all have in common is you don't come at them directly, you have to use the side door. This is where the grooming come into play. Play the role of friend, once you get them confiding you have them.

 

OW need to be groomed as well, I've said this before, how many OW would get involved with MM if he said "my wife is awesome, our sexlife is great and I'm only looking for some extra ego boost or some excitement. I will say or do anything to get what I want from you as long as its in my best interest once it is no longer I will discard you and slide back into my marriage leaving you confused and broken" how many would sign up for that.

 

OM and MM don't need grooming, we are wired differently and do a better job in keeping each part of our lives in their own box.

 

Massive generalisation.

 

1) I am far better at compartmentalising than my fMM is.

 

2) he did not "groom" me. I did not "groom" him. I was honest about what I wanted and he considered that, and decided he was interested.

 

3) Any attempt at "grooming" would not work on me. Not on any real women I know IRL. I guess planet Earth - where I live - is very different to planet "men-from-Mars-women-from-Venus" or wherever these stereotypes hang out.

[cocorico]

So it works both way? Soo many MW/OW claim the affair wasn't their intention, yet they are upset at the idea of being groomed.

 

Either it was the intent or you were groomed, affairs don't "just happen", and you aren't instantly emotionally connected.

 

I have absolutely no problem with admitting I had intent. But then I've never beaten a drum about how wrong and evil As are, so I don't have to deal with cognitive dissonance regarding having had intent.

[Blu72]

So as a MW in an affair, can you honestly say as you crossed one boundarie after another not once did you think "this is wrong, I shouldn't be doing this". If you did, then you knew what was going on but didn't stop because you enjoyed it or wanted to see where it leads. If true then the affair was your intent. Of course you didn't get there on your own, without OM getting your guard down and making you feel comfortable in crossing that line then you would have never crossed it.

 

Getting caught up is what you wanted, what you didn't want is the crap that came along with it, guilt shame, regret and not feeling strong enough to remove yourself from the situation. Groomed and intent, without it affairs don't happen.

 

I will agree with the statement 'groomed and intent, without it affairs don't happen'. Did I search it out? - absolutely not. Was I pursued? - yes 100%. Did I say 'No' when I should have? - unfortunately no.

[Hope Shimmers]

So as a MW in an affair, can you honestly say as you crossed one boundarie after another not once did you think "this is wrong, I shouldn't be doing this". If you did, then you knew what was going on but didn't stop because you enjoyed it or wanted to see where it leads. If true then the affair was your intent. Of course you didn't get there on your own, without OM getting your guard down and making you feel comfortable in crossing that line then you would have never crossed it.

 

Getting caught up is what you wanted, what you didn't want is the crap that came along with it, guilt shame, regret and not feeling strong enough to remove yourself from the situation. Groomed and intent, without it affairs don't happen.

 

I sure as hell thought "this is wrong, I shouldn't be doing this". But you are oversimplifying things. If I go into my own situation you will just say I'm making excuses.

 

I am not trying to make excuses for it because there aren't any. But people are human and they don't operate like robots. Sometimes lines aren't black and white and you are leaving things out and oversimplifying.

 

And I was not "groomed".

[Josmatjes]

On D Day my WH said he "pursued" the OW.

The OW said he "wouldn't leave her alone" that he "relentlessly pursued" her.

 

3d later a psychiatrist / psychologist I saw termed it "grooming".

 

Doesn't happen? OH YES IT DOES! Just like pedophiles "groom" their next victim, sometimes a wanna be WS MUST "groom" THEIR next "victim". SOMETIMES they're just not that easy to catch! Sometimes they're super easy.

In my WH case she was a victim. ..for a while. ..then with just enough grooming he HAD her.

He admits he wanted to use her. He never had any intentions of leaving us for her. The thought disgusts him. CONTRARY TO ALL the things he told her. She believed his lies. All of them.

 

I've got the phone records to show he spent ALOT of time on the phone to her. Most business calls are 2-3 mins. His to her IN THE BEGINNING were up to 2h!

 

Then they got less...

then less. .

Cause he caught her.

 

Then he didn't want her.

 

What did he want?

* sex with another woman, ANY OW. Variety.

(pity his E couldn't hold up for the first time).

* control over another woman - pfft that backfired!

* excitement - this sickens him NOW but he can't imagine how the whole A sickens me, our chn, all our friends and family and his family's church.

* ATTENTION - weak self esteem. Seeing IC. But a lifetime of extremely needy thoughts and habits are difficult to break.

 

The second he stopped his A and focussed his attn on his wife and 3 beautiful chn, he couldn't believe how happy he was. For a whole month. Then D Day.

 

Hope that helps.

Lion Heart.

 

Are you still together? And if so, don't you think he may do it again?

[cocorico]

Women are upset with the idea of seduction, period.

 

PUA, etc... All the crap pisses women off, because it makes women a victim and the deliberateness of it takes the romance out of everything and women never like that.

 

It's almost like how "The Rules" pisses off men.

 

All of that pisses me off. I think "The Rules" is a load of cobblers and neither "romance" nor PUAs work with me.

 

I like honesty and directness. If I'm interested in someone, I'll tell them. I don't sit around waiting for some man to pick me - I'm not goods on display for any man's choosing. I'll do the choosing, and if a guy finds that threatening then he's not man enough for me anyway.

[Hope Shimmers]

I have absolutely no problem with admitting I had intent. But then I've never beaten a drum about how wrong and evil As are, so I don't have to deal with cognitive dissonance regarding having had intent.

 

You had intent for sure. Didn't you spend like 3 months making lists of what you wanted in an affair, plotting it all out, then approach MM and ask him if he was interested? I think I'm recalling correctly from your posts.

 

That's so far to the left of the norm that I don't have words for it.

[cocorico]

You had intent for sure. Didn't you spend like 3 months making lists of what you wanted in an affair, plotting it all out, then approach MM and ask him if he was interested? I think I'm recalling correctly from your posts.

 

That's so far to the left of the norm that I don't have words for it.

 

No.

 

I did spend a long time checking him out before approaching him, which I always do. I'm not one to go out drinking and pick up any old thing in a bar. I'm fussy about who I get involved with and so I do my research before I approach someone I am interested in.

[Hope Shimmers]

No.

 

I did spend a long time checking him out before approaching him, which I always do. I'm not one to go out drinking and pick up any old thing in a bar. I'm fussy about who I get involved with and so I do my research before I approach someone I am interested in.

 

That's pretty much exactly what I said, but okay. I doubt any of the women posting here went to a bar to just pick up any old thing. But thanks for the reply.

[DKT3]

I sure as hell thought "this is wrong, I shouldn't be doing this". But you are oversimplifying things. If I go into my own situation you will just say I'm making excuses.

 

I am not trying to make excuses for it because there aren't any. But people are human and they don't operate like robots. Sometimes lines aren't black and white and you are leaving things out and oversimplifying.

 

And I was not "groomed".

 

Yours is different, we have covered as much. For all intent your MM was actually single, and you entered into an out in the open relationship.

 

Yes also covered that I'm black and white when it comes to love and respect. I'm 99% about honesty in that situation. Honesty safeguards you from the pitfalls of getting out of control.

 

Yet I'm human, yes I have pushed limits in the past and I expect I will in the future. Its nice to know others are attracted and interested, maybe I have a flaw in that I also enjoy telling a wonderful amazing woman that she is wonderful and amazing.

 

So yes I'm black and white, but still human and clearly not perfect.

[cocorico]

That's pretty much exactly what I said, but okay.

 

No, it's not. You said:

 

Didn't you spend like 3 months making lists of what you wanted in an affair, plotting it all out, then approach MM and ask him if he was interested?

 

"Making lists of what you want in an A" and "plotting it all out" is very different to finding out about someone to decide if they're someone you would want to get involved with. Perhaps it's all the same to you, but it isn't to me. It matters to me who I get involved with, and so I need to be happy that they're someone I'm comfortable with.

[Hope Shimmers]

No, it's not. You said:

 

"Making lists of what you want in an A" and "plotting it all out" is very different to finding out about someone to decide if they're someone you would want to get involved with. Perhaps it's all the same to you, but it isn't to me. It matters to me who I get involved with, and so I need to be happy that they're someone I'm comfortable with.

 

Research, then. Thanks for the distinction.

[Hope Shimmers]

Yours is different, we have covered as much. For all intent your MM was actually single, and you entered into an out in the open relationship.

 

Yes also covered that I'm black and white when it comes to love and respect. I'm 99% about honesty in that situation. Honesty safeguards you from the pitfalls of getting out of control.

 

Yet I'm human, yes I have pushed limits in the past and I expect I will in the future. Its nice to know others are attracted and interested, maybe I have a flaw in that I also enjoy telling a wonderful amazing woman that she is wonderful and amazing.

 

So yes I'm black and white, but still human and clearly not perfect.

 

I didn't mean to flog you with the black and white thing. I just was making a point that sometimes things are more complex than they appear to people who haven't been through them.

 

I also am black and white when it comes to love and respect, actually.

 

And yes, the rest we have covered.

[cocorico]

Research, then. Thanks for the distinction.

 

Yes, it is a distinction. I've spelled it out several times: I need to find out about someone before I know if I'm willing to get involved with them.

 

Perhaps this doesn't matter to you, but I'm sure it does matter to many others. Otherwise they would simply pick up any old thing at a bar.

[cocorico]

 

Yes also covered that I'm black and white when it comes to love and respect. I'm 99% about honesty in that situation. Honesty safeguards you from the pitfalls of getting out of control.

 

 

Agree completely.

[Daisy2013]

I don't know all of the technicalities about this subject, but my friend who is a marriage counselor said a few times my MM had groomed me. We were close friends, strictly platonic, talked a lot, laughed a lot. One day, he asked me something about my husband and I let it slip things weren't good at home and that was it. We didn't discuss it more and that was the first "personal" thing between us. I didn't think anything of it. Not too long after, he began telling me how unhappy he was and there was no intimacy with his wife. I knew her so could believe it. Then, he began telling me his thoughts about me. He began to ask more intimate questions, becoming closer emotionally with me. I answered. Then we admitted mutual attraction and an affair was born.

 

Was I groomed? I don't know. At some point I realized what was happening, but I was in too deep and wanted to find out more. So I consider myself half at fault for us and 100% fault for my actions. I don't blame him.

[Josmatjes]

I don't know all of the technicalities about this subject, but my friend who is a marriage counselor said a few times my MM had groomed me. We were close friends, strictly platonic, talked a lot, laughed a lot. One day, he asked me something about my husband and I let it slip things weren't good at home and that was it. We didn't discuss it more and that was the first "personal" thing between us. I didn't think anything of it. Not too long after, he began telling me how unhappy he was and there was no intimacy with his wife. I knew her so could believe it. Then, he began telling me his thoughts about me. He began to ask more intimate questions, becoming closer emotionally with me. I answered. Then we admitted mutual attraction and an affair was born.

 

Was I groomed? I don't know. At some point I realized what was happening, but I was in too deep and wanted to find out more. So I consider myself half at fault for us and 100% fault for my actions. I don't blame him.

 

 

This is exactly what happened to me. I don't blame anyone but myself. Wish I could go back and be smarter but hindsight is 20/20...

[elaine567]

Child grooming

 

 

Groomers do this by:

 

• pretending to be someone they are not, for example saying they are the same age online
  
• offering advice or understanding
  
• buying gifts
  
• giving the child attention
  
• using their professional position or reputation
  
• taking them on trips, outings or holidays.
  

 

I can see the similarities.

[goodyblue]

If you say women are groomed for an affair then you can easily say any woman is groomed for a relationship. I do not feel I was groomed at all. I feel we stayed apart as long as we could.

 

I certainly don't see affairs as predatory as one of us is not five. I take responsibly in my part.

[goodyblue]

I can see the similarities.

 

Just sounds like when people start dating. Sorry. Do not buy it at all. Stop comparing affairs to child molestation.

 

This makes me so angry. Ever been on a date? Put on your best dress? Did he win you a stuffed animal at the fair? Did you confide in him?

 

The fact that you would say this e says a lot more about your mindset than that of the cheater.

Edited April 6, 2015 by goodyblue

[Lion Heart]

Lion Heart -

How does it make you feel hearing how he 'groomed' the OW and pretty much devalued her as a person? Just curious.

 

Hi Blu, Gigigirl & others,

 

TBH because my work involves issues I mentioned in my first post on this thread. I can't disclose what I do. It made me sick to my stomach to hear the psych say "he GROOMED her". Ill.

I literally dry reached in front of the psych and she grabbed the bin. I couldn't vomit. I hadn't eaten in 3 days.

Groom, grooming, groomed. All triggers for the heart breaking soul destruction I see in individuals every day. ...then have to fix. And can't. Then keep trying. And can't.

 

It's only 15w today since my D Day, sorry I'm very sad and emotional writing about this esp today. Every Monday is the Anniversary.

 

But I have to be brave. I want to answer your question. I want to gain understandings and clarity and I most especially want to share what I learn.

 

My D Day was Dec 15. So exactly 10d later was Christmas day.

I have 3 chn still at home. My brother & SIL were coming. My DD & baby grandson were coming too - his 1st Christmas. My son in law chose to work that day to avoid my WH who he can barely look at even now (he'd been cheated on several x by his exgf of 5y). I started drinking at 6:30am and had WH phone on me in the garden. I couldn't be inside.

 

AFTER ALL the talking WH and I had done over 10d, I KNEW there would be ALOT he would hide. I had no words for his behaviours because I hadn't found LS. He USED EVERY TRICK IN THE CHEATERS HANDBOOK on me.

I'd asked if there were "any more OWs" and to tell me now, because if I EVER found out at ANYTIME in the future it would be "instant butt to the curb". I had no idea about EAs etc.

 

I understand now that WH had / maybe still has VERY loose boundaries. LS and WH A has made me see the difference between how I hold strictly to certain behaviours whilst WH is like a sentinel, always looking, even in my company. Not any more.

 

Back to Christmas Day. WH got a text from an unknown number. "Merry Christmas_____, to you and your beautiful family. Love ____ XXX"

He only got 1 or 2 other texts that day from anyone.

A name he'd never mentioned ever. An extremely unusual name I'd never heard of before in my life.

 

Ofcourse all the lies blah blah followed. Every trick blah blah..

A DEFINITE EA that I truly believe he had PA intentions with or actually to USE her to the hilt till there was nothing more to gain.

In fact this EA fitted his bill FAR more than OW.

I believe OW was a practice run.

The EA is single - check (my WH is too scared of OM to poach on their wives or gfs!).

She's got no kids - check.

She's got a big pay cheque - check.

She's got lots of property - BIG CHECK.

She lives in the SAME SUBURB - very convenient check.

 

Without a doubt in my mind he was zeroing in on her.

If she'd been SUPER willing and started an A with WH, I believe be would have left us for her. Because of all her CHECKS.

If he could've felt confident enough that he could swindle HER for the lifestyle he so desperately wanted (prob still wants) where he has open access to her $$$, he never needed to part with a cent, he could have open access to his kids, she would've been his exit A.

 

Thank G** she was smarter than that.

I spoke to her a few weeks later.

WH warned her I wanted to speak to her. He swore on his children's dying oaths he didn't warn her. But even without ls I was catching up to his game.

Finally she relented and spoke with me a number of x. Texted me a few too. She was lovely.

 

EA saw him coming. Was nice to him (he was working on her house) and her mother fed him lunch. Mmmm.

BUT and it's the big BUT she had been cheated on previously and would NEVER do that to another woman. THIS WH didn't know. After a 12y relationship, her heart was truly broken.

She didn't want to inherit anyone else's kids. Or debt. Or A behaviours. With ALL HIS SOB STORIES, she told him to go home and tell his W. She told WH that it was inappropriate to tell her and not me. In fact there weren't any real sob stories except for "My W just doesn't understand me". When questioned about what I don't "understand about him" it boiled down to his raging thoughts of wanting an A!

Yes I've got a bl**dy prize.

 

There was another EA he got out of real fast YEARS ago which I twigged to after LS. But basically his AP was "the only one who showed an interest in him". His words. I guess except for his W and children.

 

I'm not sure if I'm "worried", as in scared, he'll do it again. I kinda expect he will. He's in IC and SWEARS he won't. Right like on his chns dying oaths is gonna work!

 

It's more that I have formed my exit plan and had it since 4w post D Day. It grows and changes as time allows precipitative thoughts and realizations to trickle through. I keep a % scale going in my head about the chances of full R. Zero %. I'd had to secure my very measly welfare payment when youngest DD was 6 months old. 3chn under 3 and a teen. We had no money to eat. I maintained bank accounts separate from WH for 10y. Returned to FT work paid the mortgage (don't anymore), amassed huge savings now VERY secure from him, paid 4 credit cards out of his amounting to $30k. Fed clothed and holidayed all of us for 10y.

 

In 2y the house will be in my name only. In 3y my youngest DD will be able to have her say in Court over custody (which she's asked for). It's DEFINITELY NOT ALL about money but with 3 teens yet to raise by myself, I've just got to be practical. Child support payments won't cover their toilet paper. And no matter how much he professes his "love" for the chn, the top 1-100 people on his list are only him.

 

I should change my name to t/j!

 

Just needed to be clear. It's all such a mess. If he found an OW stupid enough to take WH on, she would be MORE than welcome to him atm! I'm all used up! Lol

 

Lion Heart.

[Lion Heart]

Well, that's shocking.

 

In many cases, once caught, the WS tells the BS that the AP pursued them.

 

I would say that only serial cheaters would consciously and deliberately pursue OW. They know what they are doing from day one. Most people DO NOT know what they are doing though. Or at least they deny it to themselves or block it out.

 

Yes it is shocking.

If I had not spoken to the OW 1st, I would not have her side, however much they both tried to lie or deceive. I had his phone records. After putting it all together he hasn't got a leg to stand on.

LH

[Lion Heart]

All of that pisses me off. I think "The Rules" is a load of cobblers and neither "romance" nor PUAs work with me.

 

I like honesty and directness. If I'm interested in someone, I'll tell them. I don't sit around waiting for some man to pick me - I'm not goods on display for any man's choosing. I'll do the choosing, and if a guy finds that threatening then he's not man enough for me anyway.

 

Coco what's PUA?

 

I like your oomph.

 

The problem I see is that boundaries are not seen and / or not regarded.

 

Grooming is the extreme behaviours, seduction and EAs may be the interim behaviours to an A. I'm sure all As are different as all Ms are too but each type of relationship in these sectors usually have common elements.

 

It's just up to each individual to make choices they think are right or even want to make. Including pulling back when a realization of where this could lead or going slowly into an A or going in full throttle. Individual choice. All choices lead somewhere. Life isn't a Fairy Tale at least not for long.

 

I was married so I stayed faithful end of.

If I thought I couldn't I wouldn't get married.

 

If staying faithful is difficult for a person then it's best for them to never enter a committed relationship, let alone M!

Then be up front and honest with every partner.

 

And maybe some people think they ARE a faithful person till they have an A.

Others KNOW they're a faithful person because they're not even tempted when many many "opportunities" have been presented.

 

:-)

LH

NB: You realise that while you're all sleeping I'm awake, playing catch up in Oz!

Edited April 6, 2015 by Lion Heart

[Lion Heart]

I can see the similarities.

 

Elaine if you had've found a list of "grooming behaviours that individuals use to begin affairs" then this would've been shot down too. I'm sure my WH could write the book! I'll ask him when he gets home lol.

 

Obviously for a very strong willed adult, it would be very difficult for them to be "groomed". I think for people with flimsy boundaries (possibly weaker personalities or character) it's easier and yes some people are predators for APs.

 

But OBVIOUSLY there are some people who just WANT to have affairs with married people which astounds me! Truly.

That's the biggest issue. The serial OWs who couldn't give a st*** about the approaching doom for the families.

 

I had a friend once who told me she was set on getting with a MM. When I exhausted all her reasons which were basically no single man would have her. Which is still true 30y later. I said "What about the children?" Her reply was "F*** the children".

Yeah nice. Not a friend of mine anymore. Barely a friend to name. Can't even show her face at our school reunion this year.

 

Over and out.

 

LH

[elaine567]

I had a friend once who told me she was set on getting with a MM. When I exhausted all her reasons which were basically no single man would have her. Which is still true 30y later. I said "What about the children?" Her reply was "F*** the children".

Yeah nice. Not a friend of mine anymore. Barely a friend to name. Can't even show her face at our school reunion this year.

 

MM are so attractive for some women who have "never found anyone else", because they embody what many women want in a life partner.

The fact they got married in the first place marks them out as someone who is capable of love, someone who is capable of commitment, someone who is capable of shouldering responsibility, and ironically someone who is willing to be loyal to one woman and embrace monogamy.

The fact that many married men have regular employment, own houses and are seen as pillars in the community, is icing on the cake.

 

Bagging that catch is a huge achievement, when all the men she sees around her are "wasters", players, commitment-phobes and men with loads of emotional baggage.

The MM is thus heaven sent.

Add in a bit of charm, affection, excitement, a few gifts, trips away, and some secrets shared; she is hooked.

She sees herself as Mrs MM within a very short period of time, or failing that she sees herself as his "special" girl.