Brapting Posted April 5, 2015 Posted April 5, 2015 I wonder if anyone could offer some words of advice on how to get started with the whole dating thing. So I am a guy, 27. I am employed but I live with my parents at the moment. I am a virgin and I have only really ever had one girlfriend for a year when I was 18. I have been to university and volunteered abroad before, but at the moment, I don't really have any friends and I don't go out. I have had some issues with depression, anxiety and drug use and I can admit that my self esteem is rock bottom...and has been for a long time. The word STAGNATION comes to mind. Imagine someone who put off acting to improve their situation...and carried on doing so, day after day until it snowballed. Now I find my situation very overwhelming and I don't know where to start. My only relationship was very traumatic. My girlfriend was manipulative and a little abusive. It effected me very deeply and I guess I never really recovered. I have not (never) approached a woman to date before and I find it very frightening. I don't/wouldn't know what to do. I don't really talk about things with anyone...even family. My dad never really gave me that "be careful of women" talk so I was not really prepared for the way that my ex treated me and it scarred me deeply. I never really discussed dating women with my friends of the past...I have never had 'those kind of friends' so I guess I never really learnt. I am the kind of guy that feels things very deeply. Before I get the customary 'alpha' bashing from guys telling me to 'grow up'. I have tried to learn about hooking up and PUA and all of that, but I don't want to sleep with loads of women. All the macho posturing just seems a bit 'fake' and I just want to find someone to have a loving relationship with. I DO NOT SEE RELATIONSHIPS AS A GAME. I want someone and something genuine...but I have fallen so far behind. I don't really connect with my peers and when I have opened up in the past...I am just ridiculed for it and it is really hurtful. So where would I even begin? The situation is so bad that I wouldn't know where to start. Does anyone have any suggestions for baby steps? (Sorry to have rambled on).
d0nnivain Posted April 5, 2015 Posted April 5, 2015 The sole grain of truth in all of the PUA junk is that self confidence is sexy. You are going to have to work up to that but fake it 'til you make it is a valid methodology. First step will be expanding your circle of friends. Join groups to pursue your bobbies. This should enable you to find guys to go out with and women who share your interests so you can possibly date them. Create an OLD profile. Tell people you are open to being fixed up. On the date, be polite & mannerly. Ask questions but don't interview her. Be genuinely interested in what she is saying. Gradually build a bond. Do break the touch barrier -- hold her hand, kiss her goodnight (a peck on the cheek / lips for the 1st time is fine). Have fun!
SmartDude Posted April 5, 2015 Posted April 5, 2015 I just want to find someone to have a loving relationship with. I DO NOT SEE RELATIONSHIPS AS A GAME. I want someone and something genuine...but I have fallen so far behind. I don't really connect with my peers and when I have opened up in the past...I am just ridiculed for it and it is really hurtful.. This is the problem area, right there, you wrote it yourself. Examine your words. If you focus in desperation for something genuine it will slip away, every time, without fail. Maybee you should see relationships as a game for awhile, just to experience the oposite of whatever way of thinking is holding you back now. It can be a fun game were you play with others! Just follow the basic rules of that game: Don't hurt anyone and don't disrespect yourself by giving others more than they have earned. And when you are having fun in that game of life, something odd may happen: You may find what you are looking for, because you stoped looking for it. Its messed up, I know! Ridiculed by your peers? Snap back at them, let them know how uninteligent they are in the most subtle way that will make their skin crawl.... The alpha male apes won't ever mess with you again if you give them something to think about. Sometimes a display of power is needed....But if it borne out of anger you are screwed, so be carefull!
Author Brapting Posted April 5, 2015 Author Posted April 5, 2015 (edited) The sole grain of truth in all of the PUA junk is that self confidence is sexy. You are going to have to work up to that but fake it 'til you make it is a valid methodology. First step will be expanding your circle of friends. Join groups to pursue your bobbies. This should enable you to find guys to go out with and women who share your interests so you can possibly date them. Create an OLD profile. Tell people you are open to being fixed up. On the date, be polite & mannerly. Ask questions but don't interview her. Be genuinely interested in what she is saying. Gradually build a bond. Do break the touch barrier -- hold her hand, kiss her goodnight (a peck on the cheek / lips for the 1st time is fine). Have fun! Wow...that was a really fast reply. Thank you taking the time to write something. I half expected to get abuse. Last time I opened up to a couple of people about it (face to face)...I became the topic of conversation. They basically said I am not "normal". I know my situation is messed up though so I probably had it coming. Is the PUA stuff literally self confidence then? I.e. if you are confident in yourself...it doesn't matter what you believe in. Many of them would have you believe that their secret method is the only magic bullet. I know I really have a lot of work to do on myself. I have known this for a while. But I find this tricky being alone and what have you. Like I have said I do not really know where to start. Can I ask...What do you mean by an OLD profile? Edited April 5, 2015 by Brapting
Fhsjkfjrhsdh3646 Posted April 5, 2015 Posted April 5, 2015 (edited) D0n this guy is in no shape to venture into OLD yet, he has a lot of work to do. OP, the PUA stuff while sometimes embellished is pretty spot on, and will help you develop the right frame of mind to attract a woman. PUA skills help you not only with hooking up, but just interacting in general with not only women, but people in general. Read the book called "The Game" - it's largely embellished in parts I think, but has a lot of good tips interacting with women. Firstly you need to move out from your parents house, at 27 this will be a deal breaker for about 95% of women. You say you have a job (a good one?) so this should be easy. Find a place to rent if you aren't ready to buy. Second you need interests and hobbies, as well as friends. You need stuff to keep you busy to show that you aren't boring and fun to be around. Third go to the gym at least 3 times a week. It will help you get a toned body and naturally increase your t levels which will boost your confidence. Lastly, confidence. You need to have positive self esteem and be self-confident. This should come naturally by accomplishing the steps above, but if you ever get into a negative frame of mind, you need to shut those feelings down. After you achieve this, you'll be ready to venture into dating. Until you can be well off by yourself, you aren't ready to have a woman in your life. P.s. Relationships ARE a game at first. Edited April 5, 2015 by barcode88 1
DatingDirection Posted April 5, 2015 Posted April 5, 2015 I wonder if anyone could offer some words of advice on how to get started with the whole dating thing. So I am a guy, 27. I am employed but I live with my parents at the moment. I am a virgin and I have only really ever had one girlfriend for a year when I was 18. I have been to university and volunteered abroad before, but at the moment, I don't really have any friends and I don't go out. I have had some issues with depression, anxiety and drug use and I can admit that my self esteem is rock bottom...and has been for a long time. The word STAGNATION comes to mind. Imagine someone who put off acting to improve their situation...and carried on doing so, day after day until it snowballed. Now I find my situation very overwhelming and I don't know where to start. My only relationship was very traumatic. My girlfriend was manipulative and a little abusive. It effected me very deeply and I guess I never really recovered. I have not (never) approached a woman to date before and I find it very frightening. I don't/wouldn't know what to do. I don't really talk about things with anyone...even family. My dad never really gave me that "be careful of women" talk so I was not really prepared for the way that my ex treated me and it scarred me deeply. I never really discussed dating women with my friends of the past...I have never had 'those kind of friends' so I guess I never really learnt. I am the kind of guy that feels things very deeply. Before I get the customary 'alpha' bashing from guys telling me to 'grow up'. I have tried to learn about hooking up and PUA and all of that, but I don't want to sleep with loads of women. All the macho posturing just seems a bit 'fake' and I just want to find someone to have a loving relationship with. I DO NOT SEE RELATIONSHIPS AS A GAME. I want someone and something genuine...but I have fallen so far behind. I don't really connect with my peers and when I have opened up in the past...I am just ridiculed for it and it is really hurtful. So where would I even begin? The situation is so bad that I wouldn't know where to start. Does anyone have any suggestions for baby steps? (Sorry to have rambled on). Wow, I really liked reading your post. You sound like me. I struggled with depression, but also the highs too, I love to laugh, and I can be really happy at times, people wouldn't know I was depressed. As for dating, im new to it too, and don't do superficial connections. While im not depressed anymore, it took me 3 years to get over my first love, and my first love was at 26 years old. I had many guys who wanted to date me in my teens, and early 20's, but I wasn't up to dating them. My advice, is to love yourself first, get to know who you are without the depression, because really, we are not our true selves when we're depressed, it's the depression not us. Once you love yourself, and you will find what you like to do in life, do you have any hobbies you enjoy? Sports, books, travel, whatever it may be, and who knows you will meet someone in an environment you excel in. Once you shine the world shines back at you. I don't know if im rambling on myself here, or making sense. hope that helps. 2
DatingDirection Posted April 5, 2015 Posted April 5, 2015 I don't really connect with my peers and when I have opened up in the past...I am just ridiculed for it and it is really hurtful. Why on earth would they ridicule you? You're talking to the wrong people then, im sorry, but you need to speak to people who have empathy, and understanding. Depression and anxiety can really impact a person's life in many areas. I can't belive people lack so much empathy these days. I mean it's one thing to make excuses and lack optimism, maybe a little tough love is good, but it's another to not clearly hear a person, and understand that, a person wants a real connection. it's all superficial isn't it?!
Fhsjkfjrhsdh3646 Posted April 5, 2015 Posted April 5, 2015 I don't really connect with my peers and when I have opened up in the past...I am just ridiculed for it and it is really hurtful. Why on earth would they ridicule you? You're talking to the wrong people then, im sorry, but you need to speak to people who have empathy, and understanding. Depression and anxiety can really impact a person's life in many areas. I can't belive people lack so much empathy these days. I mean it's one thing to make excuses and lack optimism, maybe a little tough love is good, but it's another to not clearly hear a person, and understand that, a person wants a real connection. it's all superficial isn't it?! Maybe the OP is just sensitive and they're just messing with him and don't realize he's upset? One thing I can suggest for the OP is to grow a thick skin. I get crap from friends all the time lol.
elaine567 Posted April 5, 2015 Posted April 5, 2015 First of all you need to get confidence speaking to women, start speaking to women, any woman, forget about asking them out, just pass the time of day, make a joke, make them laugh. Get relaxed just speaking to women on the bus, in shops, at work etc. and make sure they are relaxed around you. Practise what you say, your body language and watch how they react to you and alter your behaviour accordingly. That will build your confidence. If you start asking women out and you are nervous, intense and worried, with all the wrong body language signals, you are going to fail. Once you know you can speak to women without getting flustered, then you can start asking them out. As you are not a PUA master I suggest you do not try that. Many women are up on PUA techniques and some sharp girls may blow you out of the water, if you try and that is fine if you are up to that, but I guess you won't be. Better to come across honest, genuine and confident, than manipulative and sneaky IMO. Of course you need to look closely at your appearance, and what you wear, your hygiene, make sure your teeth are well maintained, get a good haircut, smell nice and wear on trend clothes. As you are "stagnant", ask for some help with what to wear. Many high street stores can help you there (personal shopper), if you do not know anyone personally. If you can walk around with confidence, knowing you look good with your head held high, that will do wonders for your self esteem too.
DatingDirection Posted April 5, 2015 Posted April 5, 2015 at 27 this will be a deal breaker for about 95% of women. You say you have a job (a good one?) so this should be easy. Find a place to rent if you aren't ready to buy. Yes, that is a deal breaker for me really. I find men who live at home at 25 and over, really have no life experience, and are spoiled, especially if they have a job.
DatingDirection Posted April 5, 2015 Posted April 5, 2015 What's this PUA thing about??? Can't we just be ourselves, isn't the enough these days, or are we just totally spoiled we need to put up a front, in order to impress?!
DatingDirection Posted April 5, 2015 Posted April 5, 2015 oops ok, just read about PUA, yeah, chivalry is not dead!!! Keep it going men, we love it, and a real women, will show you appreciation for it too.
DatingDirection Posted April 5, 2015 Posted April 5, 2015 Maybe the OP is just sensitive and they're just messing with him and don't realize he's upset? One thing I can suggest for the OP is to grow a thick skin. I get crap from friends all the time lol. I guess a thick skin is good, but they should realise that he's depressed, and if they do know that and still mess with his head, it's time for him to get some real friends, and trust me they are out there OP, don't stand for that.
Author Brapting Posted April 5, 2015 Author Posted April 5, 2015 Maybe the OP is just sensitive and they're just messing with him and don't realize he's upset? One thing I can suggest for the OP is to grow a thick skin. I get crap from friends all the time lol. It was a friend I hadn't seen for a long time although we were best buds at university. We were chilling with his flat mate. To be fair, we had both taken a lot of drugs as I was into that at the time. He asked me when I last hooked up with someone and I couldn't bat him off. I just said not for 8/9 years and I told him that I was a virgin. He kept asking questions even though I asked him to stop. He was shocked and seemed a bit hurt that I had never told him. I proceeded to almost have a semi breakdown, I told him about my ex and all the stuff she used to do (first time I had told anyone). I remember sweating a lot and my hands were shaking. I was very tearful. I think it was more my state than what they said. They chimed in with things like "that's not normal"..."that's weird". But as I had never discussed any of it with anyone...it probably had more of an effect on me. The whole situation was very distressing and disturbing.
fitnessfan365 Posted April 5, 2015 Posted April 5, 2015 1) A woman won't like you, if you don't like yourself. So focusing on yourself should be your main priority right now. Get some therapy to deal with your traumatic past and to deal with your depression. Once you start to deal with the mental roadblocks, you'll begin to feel confident and centered. 2) Take a few classes on communication skills, body language, and social interaction. Also, attend sales seminars and read books on selling. Dating is a lot like sales, and sales training will help you get better at thinking on your feet and adapting. One reason why I've done so well with women is my sales background. 3) Find ways to enrich your own life. First and foremost start exercising regularly and get into shape. Leading a healthier lifestyle will make you look and feel so much better. Also, get some hobbies that you can be passionate about. That way when you do have a woman in your life, she will complement it and not define it. If you make your whole world center around her, she'll get turned off by your needy clingy behavior. One you improve yourself and feel genuinely good about your own life, start slow with online dating. That will at least let you approach from a distance. But I want to stress once again, that you need to focus on yourself first and foremost. Dating should be your end goal after you have your own life together. 1
Author Brapting Posted April 5, 2015 Author Posted April 5, 2015 at 27 this will be a deal breaker for about 95% of women. You say you have a job (a good one?) so this should be easy. Find a place to rent if you aren't ready to buy. Yes, that is a deal breaker for me really. I find men who live at home at 25 and over, really have no life experience, and are spoiled, especially if they have a job. I thought as much...but does this mean that I am a write off? My main worry is that I don't have any life experience and worse still, I don't know how to get it. It depends what you mean by life? Like relationships and stuff? I have lived alone before and rented...at university. I have volunteered abroad in africa for a few months. I just have not really dated or socialised a huge amount. After breaking up with my ex...I became a bit of a recluse and things just stayed the same. I don't really go out clubbing or anything like that. The few times I have I find it uncomfortable like I don't really know what I am doing there.
Author Brapting Posted April 5, 2015 Author Posted April 5, 2015 I really do appreciate everyone's comments. I do want to move out and have my own place. Where I live it is pretty rural so there is not much to do and I don't really feel like myself anyway while I am living in the family home. My job is public sector and not very well paid. I feel I could do better with my education. I would find juggling therapy and work quite tricky and there is quite a bit of stigma surrounding it generally, so I wouldn't really want to advertise it to employers. I have done a little bit in the past while unemployed. ------------- I do want to like myself, but it is extremely difficult while I know that I am a virgin, I have not had a girlfriend for nearly a decade and I am living at home. I will have to look into what I can do to maybe move away and try some of these ideas.
ZA Dater Posted April 5, 2015 Posted April 5, 2015 This thread resonated quite heavily with me because in many way the opening poster and myself are similar. I'd wager one thing though, you will get a lot of advice, it is what you make of it, not everyone is the same and not all circumstances are the same, thus some of the band aid methods suggested may not work for YOU. My personal opinion is be who you are opposed to trying to be a person you think will appeal to others, I tried it, it doesn't really work and it didn't for me at least. Set yourself a non dating related challenge, in my case I am busy writing a fictional novel, 30 pages so far. Being bothered by being a virgin and having no dating experience is awful, again I know from experience. Reading of the advice here is no doubt daunting but also realise a lot of what is made to look simple isn't really. Take baby steps, decide what you want, decide what you can compromise on but mostly decide if any of it is really worth it, do the means truly justify the end. Yes, some will no doubt climb into me for suggesting this but ultimately you work for an end goal and nobody I know wants their end goal to be average. Try online dating, that would be a good start I think but be aware MANY of those there have fairly fundamental issues and sizeable amounts of baggage. Sincerely I wish you the best of luck and positive good experiences.
Author Brapting Posted April 5, 2015 Author Posted April 5, 2015 (edited) This thread resonated quite heavily with me because in many way the opening poster and myself are similar. Its good to know that there are people out there that share some similarities with my situation. So thank you for taking the time to comment. I'd wager one thing though, you will get a lot of advice, it is what you make of it, not everyone is the same and not all circumstances are the same, thus some of the band aid methods suggested may not work for YOU. This is what I am getting at a little the PUA methods. I spent ages reading about it and learning about social skills and other 'coping' strategies. Especially when I went to university and volunteered abroad. But these deal with the symptoms and not the underlying issues. I felt like I was 'faking it' but I never seemed to 'make it'. I guess I kind of thought I could do the whole thing indirectly. Like if I learnt how to appear confident and enthusiastic...women would come to me. I have felt uncomfortable with who am for a long time though...and putting on an act just doesn't feel right. Like its not genuine...like there is no substance. I think the more discerning person can spot it from a mile off. Its weird because despite saying what I have done. I am a little accomplished in other areas. I have a Masters degree. I work in the Civil Service (although in a somewhat junior post). I have volunteered abroad. Its just my social and romantic life that never really clicked. I find it really stressful just trying to plan. My negative thoughts go a little out of control I guess. Set yourself a non dating related challenge, in my case I am busy writing a fictional novel, 30 pages so far. Being bothered by being a virgin and having no dating experience is awful, again I know from experience. Reading of the advice here is no doubt daunting but also realise a lot of what is made to look simple isn't really. I would be interested to know what the novel is about. Do you read a lot of books? I am thinking about working on advancing my career. I really like the sound of public relations. I recently realized that I had always been interested in it, my degree transfers to it well and I have noticed that I have a bit of a nack for it in my current job. Take baby steps, decide what you want, decide what you can compromise on but mostly decide if any of it is really worth it, do the means truly justify the end. Yes, some will no doubt climb into me for suggesting this but ultimately you work for an end goal and nobody I know wants their end goal to be average. I kind of agree with this. But I never expected or wanted to be in this situation. I want girlfriends and a social life like everyone else. I always have done. The thing with people making it sound easy is that they underestimate the female friends that have offered to set them up (NEVER happened with me)...the close male friends that have shared their experiences (NEVER happened with me) and their male role models that have passed on their experiences (NEVER happened with me). I really am running on nothing here...like a teenager trying it for the first time. But people wont treat me like a teenager...they will not give me that benefit of the doubt...they see and expect and adult level of experience and maturity. But that is exactly what I lack...and this makes the whole thing that more terrifying. Try online dating, that would be a good start I think but be aware MANY of those there have fairly fundamental issues and sizeable amounts of baggage. Well that kind of sums me up anyway! Thank you again for taking the time to post. Edited April 5, 2015 by Brapting
fitnessfan365 Posted April 5, 2015 Posted April 5, 2015 Its weird because despite saying what I have done. I am a little accomplished in other areas. I have a Masters degree. I work in the Civil Service (although in a somewhat junior post). I have volunteered abroad. Its just my social and romantic life that never really clicked. I find it really stressful just trying to plan. My negative thoughts go a little out of control I guess. That's the thing though. All the accomplishments that you've made have nothing to do with how you interact with women. It's a completely different animal. I saw a guy once that was 60-70lbs lbs over weight dressed like a homeless Salvation Army reject that had one of the HOTTEST blondes I've ever seen in my life on his arm. They were kissing, laughing, and genuinely happy together. It's because that guy knows how to interact with women and push her buttons in a way that makes her feel special. Now I will be the first to say that I HATE PUA strategies. I don't have time for being mysterious, aloof, and all that other crap. I'm direct and go after what I want on my own terms and don't give a $hit. To me, that is true self confidence. I don't have to game women because they want me based on who I already am and the ones that don't are simply making my selection process easier. However, genuine self confidence, indifference, passion and drive in life, and witty personality are pretty universal in attracting the opposite sex. So that's why if you take some communication classes, learn how to develop body language, read sales books and learn how to read people, etc it will help you with women and people in general. 1
Fhsjkfjrhsdh3646 Posted April 5, 2015 Posted April 5, 2015 OP if you're in a rural area that can limit the size of the dating pool (IRL & online) that you have... Ever considered the possibility of getting a job in the city and moving there? It sounds like your overqualified for your job and could use a career advancement to shift your life in gear. Also getting away from your hometown would help you grown more independent. You might hate social situations like going to clubs/etc. but having good social skills is necessary if you want to attract Women. Do what you can to try and ease some of your social anxiety, even if it means taking baby steps.
Author Brapting Posted April 5, 2015 Author Posted April 5, 2015 That's the thing though. All the accomplishments that you've made have nothing to do with how you interact with women. It's a completely different animal. I saw a guy once that was 60-70lbs lbs over weight dressed like a homeless Salvation Army reject that had one of the HOTTEST blondes I've ever seen in my life on his arm. They were kissing, laughing, and genuinely happy together. It's because that guy knows how to interact with women and push her buttons in a way that makes her feel special. Now I will be the first to say that I HATE PUA strategies. I don't have time for being mysterious, aloof, and all that other crap. I'm direct and go after what I want on my own terms and don't give a $hit. To me, that is true self confidence. I don't have to game women because they want me based on who I already am and the ones that don't are simply making my selection process easier. However, genuine self confidence, indifference, passion and drive in life, and witty personality are pretty universal in attracting the opposite sex. So that's why if you take some communication classes, learn how to develop body language, read sales books and learn how to read people, etc it will help you with women and people in general. Do they do classes like that and do you have any book suggestions? (I have read books on flirting, I own how to make friends and influence people...I also have the audio book. I guess its just a case of being brave enough to practice it.)
Fhsjkfjrhsdh3646 Posted April 5, 2015 Posted April 5, 2015 Do they do classes like that and do you have any book suggestions? (I have read books on flirting, I own how to make friends and influence people...I also have the audio book. I guess its just a case of being brave enough to practice it.) Besides the suggestions we made to better yourself, you need trial & error to gain social skills. When opportunities arise for outings, take them. Otherwise grab a buddy or two and go clubbing/bar hopping. Practice just going up and talking to people - including guys/groups. You should start out with the intention of just being comfortable around people before you start hitting on girls.
Author Brapting Posted April 6, 2015 Author Posted April 6, 2015 Besides the suggestions we made to better yourself, you need trial & error to gain social skills. When opportunities arise for outings, take them. Otherwise grab a buddy or two and go clubbing/bar hopping. Practice just going up and talking to people - including guys/groups. You should start out with the intention of just being comfortable around people before you start hitting on girls. Therein lies the problem. I don't really have those kind of buddies. I don't really have any kind of buddies to the tell the truth. I have set out to find them in the past, but it is always so transient. I have never really committed to going out on the pull because it is too nerve wracking. Even at university...whenever my friends suggested that we go out "on the pull", I just agreed and proceeded to get wrecked on booze, or drugs...or both, with a couple of other guys that were into it. I am not making excuses. I want to go out and practice some of the skills I learn, but I don't really seem to have much opportunity. I live in the middle of nowhere and I know NO ONE. I don't and have never really had that close group of mates that share everything. It is like I have said. The situation really is that dire.
Fhsjkfjrhsdh3646 Posted April 6, 2015 Posted April 6, 2015 Therein lies the problem. I don't really have those kind of buddies. I don't really have any kind of buddies to the tell the truth. I have set out to find them in the past, but it is always so transient. I have never really committed to going out on the pull because it is too nerve wracking. Even at university...whenever my friends suggested that we go out "on the pull", I just agreed and proceeded to get wrecked on booze, or drugs...or both, with a couple of other guys that were into it. I am not making excuses. I want to go out and practice some of the skills I learn, but I don't really seem to have much opportunity. I live in the middle of nowhere and I know NO ONE. I don't and have never really had that close group of mates that share everything. It is like I have said. The situation really is that dire. All I hear is a lot of excuses. We've presented a lot of options for you. What are you going to work on? If you need to make friends, try meetup.com If you live in the middle of nowhere and hate it, then move to the city where there's more people. You need to leave home.You could use a better/different job, your current job doesn't sound ideal the way you described it.More people to date / More things to do.
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