How should I proceed?? Stand my ground, or cave?

[Jono85]

So I met this girl at my gym through an employee there, after lots of attraction signals on both sides. Anyway, we went on first date, just a few drinks. It went pretty well in terms of conversation (we talked for like 4 hours, until bar closed). I did try for kiss at end but she shot it down saying she doesn't kiss on first date, and i played it off well ie. wasn't a big deal. She was the first to text me that night telling me what a great time she had, etc, so I took her at her word (that she just doesn't kiss on first dates..). Anyway, this was last weekend (Sunday), and we've texted a bit since, and ran into eachother at gym twice. I know she's quite interested b/c after our last run-in she texted me to tell me her friend at gym thought I was pretty cute too. she also texts me in depth/detail and how it's great we share some of the same things in common, etc.

 

Anyway...here is the issue (I apologize in advance for the perceived pettiness lol). That same night, this was Wednesday night, I told her my buddy is in town this weekend and wants to chill either Fri or Sat night, and I told her I wanted to see her one of those nights (we both already agreed we wanted to chill again and hopefully this weekend) so to let me know if one night works and I could tell him the other night for me and him to chill. She texts me "ok i'll let you know in the morning for sure if that's ok" and I say yeah that's cool but "please do so I can get back to him".

 

The next morning she texts me about some random other stuff, but doesn't follow up on when she's available. I eventually tell her ok well I had to just make plans w/ him for Sat night since she didn't let me know. She tells me that that's ok and she can't chill Fri night though b/c her family made plans, but we'll hang another time. I guess I'm a little anal about people and following through on their word, and I found it a bit rude that I was waiting to tell my boy what night, and she just didn't notify me after telling me "for sure" she would and didn't even apologize afterwards or make an excuse or anything. So I texted her something i thought was kind of light saying "and it'd be nice if next time you say you'll do something 'for sure' you follow through ". I tried to convey it wasn't a huge deal with the winky face, but she hasn't texted me back since (this was Friday morning and we generally text daily).

 

Should I stand my ground and stick to my values (ie. she obv didn't like that I mentioned that since she hasn't msged since) but I mean it kind of annoyed me I'm waiting on her, and so is my boy, and she told me she'd let me know for sure and didn't. So I mentioned it casually. Am I making this into a huge deal or what? lol. Should I text her casually later in weekend like nothing happened, or wait for her to get back to me since she kind of just ignored my text?? I know this seems silly, but a part of me feels this could be important for establishing my stance on something for later. Like it's a value of mine (ppl following up on their word) and she just totally ignored it like it meant nothing to her? If i just cave and text her like nothing happened, am i not conveying to her it's totally cool for her to both A. tell me she'll do something and not follow through and B. she can ignore my texts on something kind of important to me and I'll forget about it and continue 'liking' her.

 

good ol dating games...glad to be back in the game ha

Edited April 4, 2015 by Jono85

[losangelena]

Hmm ...

 

I have several thoughts about this.

 

First, I think trying to communicate any of this over text messaging is an awful idea. Tone and intention get lost very quickly, and if I got a text like that from a guy I didn't know very well, I'd feel scolded and put off.

 

However, I have the same mindset as you in that I generally do what I say I'll do, and if bugs me when others don't. Not everyone feels that way, though, and this girl sounds like maybe she's like that. To be fair, you could have followed up with her and asked again which evening would better for her, instead of waiting to hear from her.

 

Moving forward, I think it'd behoove you to figure out what you want from this girl. If her lack of follow-through and response is enough of a turn off, then just cut her loose. But if you like her enough to give her the benefit of the doubt in this one instance, then I'd say, give it a couple days and get back to her and say you'd like to see her. Try and nail down a time to see each other, and if you do meet up, then bring up, IN PERSON, that follow through is important to you, and that what she did previously bothered you. Bringing it up in a mature way is not petty—especially if that quality is important to you in the people you date—but trying to play these text games are.

[Mrin]

I think the issue here isn't so much the what but rather the how. Should you be irritated about her lack of follow through? Sure. Is having an expectation of integrity unreasonable? No, not at all. The issue really isn't that you were in the wrong at all. In fact I applaud your desire to be forthright about it with her.

 

But where I think you went wrong is the how - how your communicated this message. The better way would have been to keep your powder dry until you could have had the conversation in person. And you could have made it constructive. Like saying - hey, I just wanted to share something about me. Following through on my word/living in integrity is a big thing for me. I demand that of myself (big win here as it distinguishes you for countless other flakey guys). If you ever see me not following through, please tell me. It is important to me. And it is important that the people in my life live similarly. It is a pet peeve of mine so I just want to give you a heads up on that. Or something like that. Would have been a constructive conversation about how the two of you could be more authentic with each other.

 

Instead, doing that through a text came off passive aggressive and whiny.

[BlueIris]

… to let me know if one night works and I could tell him the other night for me and him to chill. She texts me "ok i'll let you know in the morning for sure if that's ok" and I say yeah that's cool but "please do so I can get back to him".

 

The next morning she texts me about some random other stuff, but doesn't follow up on when she's available. I eventually tell her ok well I had to just make plans w/ him for Sat night since she didn't let me know. She tells me that that's ok and she can't chill Fri night though b/c her family made plans, but we'll hang another time.

 

Next time ask the question you want answered. Say, “So, is either night good for you?”

 

Should I stand my ground and stick to my values (ie. she obv didn't like that I mentioned that since she hasn't msged since) but I mean it kind of annoyed me I'm waiting on her, and so is my boy, and she told me she'd let me know for sure and didn't. So I mentioned it casually. Am I making this into a huge deal or what?

 

Yeah, you’re making a huge deal about it. If you value clear open communication, be clear and open communicating. “Standing your ground” sounds as though you take a defensive or combative attitude toward dating. You chastised her instead- not mentioned it "casually" since you were annoyed that she didn't bring it up first. Next time bring up the topics you want brought up.

[fitnessfan365]

I've only been cheeked twice in my life. So most of the time, I can get a good feel on chemistry and attraction and go for the kiss when it feels right. Now with that said, I've had many women say "I don't usually kiss on the first date" after we finished our goodnight kiss. What this tells me is that women make exceptions for chemistry. Since she shot you down but sent you a follow up text, it means her interest is luke warm. But me personally, I'm not seeing her again. I'd rather invest my time in a woman that feels it who I don't have to convince otherwise. One foot in and one foot out is BS.

 

Finally, one of my BIGGEST pet peeves is when you ask a woman a direct question like "I need to tell my buddy what day is free so do you want Fri or Sat?" and she skates around it. Women like that are a pain in the ass to deal with. So since she shot you down for the kiss and is playing games, I'd drop her instantly.

Edited April 4, 2015 by fitnessfan365

[Jono85]

really appreciate all the advice and I agree with all of you. all great points and I realize my missteps.

 

I think I do want to try again with her as we've only been on one date and I should not have even put her in the position to make such a pressure decision like that I suppose anyhow.

 

going forward, should I text her soon like this aft/evening something light to convey I'm over it (ie. ask how her family thing went?).

[Jono85]

I've only been cheeked twice in my life. So most of the time, I can get a good feel on chemistry and attraction and go for the kiss when it feels right. Now with that said, I've had many women say "I don't usually kiss on the first date" after we finished our goodnight kiss. What this tells me is that women make exceptions for chemistry. Since she shot you down but sent you a follow up text, it means her interest is luke warm. But me personally, I'm not seeing her again. I'd rather invest my time in a woman that feels it who I don't have to convince otherwise. One foot in and one foot out is BS.

 

Finally, one of my BIGGEST pet peeves is when you ask a woman a direct question like "I need to tell my buddy what day is free so do you want Fri or Sat?" and she skates around it. Women like that are a pain in the ass to deal with. So since she shot you down for the kiss and is playing games, I'd drop her instantly.

 

i feel your stance on the kiss. that being said I'll take some ownership on that. we did have a great date but we were talking opposite a little table all night so I didn't really get to have much contact until we walked to my car. I didn't build up enough comfort most likely and kind of pulled her in for kiss before going in my car. she was adamant she just doesn't kiss on first dates and her behaviour during week kind of made up for that as she conveyed a ton of interest.

 

I agree it's a bit flakey of her to not address her commitment/promise to let me know and that has the one side of me saying leave her alone.

[fitnessfan365]

Don't text her at all. Allow her the space to reach out to you. Then when she does, don't small talk with her. Cut to the chase and say "Great to hear from you! When are you free to get together?"

 

Since she shot you down for a kiss, and played games with you, it's up to her to put a bit of effort in. At this point, it's consisted of you showing interest and chasing her. Show the girl that you're willing to walk away from someone who wastes your time. I mean as you say, you've only had one date. So you should have the mindset of being good with hearing from her, and equally good if you don't. Since there are always other women, just meet a new one.

 

as she conveyed a ton of interest. .

 

Pay attention to a woman's actions. Not her texting habits. So far she has shot you down for a kiss, and skated around a direct date invitation. From where I'm sitting, her actions have indicated low interest. When a girl ACTS interested, she never makes you work. She'll kiss on the first date, and she'll happily accept date invitations. She won't skate around invitations, be flakey, make you chase after her, etc.. Only focus on women whose interest level match your own.

Edited April 4, 2015 by fitnessfan365

[BlueIris]

really appreciate all the advice and I agree with all of you. all great points and I realize my missteps.

 

I think I do want to try again with her as we've only been on one date and I should not have even put her in the position to make such a pressure decision like that I suppose anyhow.

 

going forward, should I text her soon like this aft/evening something light to convey I'm over it (ie. ask how her family thing went?).

 

Sure, why not? But chastising her like you did might have done you in. I mean, how do you react when a woman you’ve been on one date with scolds or chastises you?

 

OP, don’t become one of those pissy prissy people. I’m not saying that you’re this far to the extreme, but don’t become one. Tightly-wound people – men or women - who see things negatively, take offense or get annoyed by things that could be perfectly innocent, and who have lots of personal rules about what other people should do and be, and who are at war… are a drag. You’ve certainly met some.

 

Relax and try to enjoy dating.

 

Example: My BF and I had plans to watch the Final Four this afternoon, not specific yet. He called this morning and the first thing I talked about is that there’s a bad puppy sickness in Chicago, because my daughter just got a puppy and lives in Chicago. He is not upset that I didn’t talk about what time we’re going to watch the games first. He just raised the issue and we made plans. No one is hurt.

Edited April 4, 2015 by BlueIris

[GemmaUK]

The question you asked by text - she forgot it as it wasn't the last message she saw in her you -to-her text thread.

 

 

If you need a specific day then just call, words and much more memorable always.

 

 

If you had sent me a text basically saying I did wrong after one date and I should follow through then I wouldn't be seeing you again, sorry. That is passive aggressive.

 

 

I'm pretty laid back so if a guy needs to know something specific I expect him to step up and ask (just like I do if I need to know) and he will absolutely get his answer and he will know when I am free to see him.

[preraph]

As soon as she texted back and didn't mention it, you should have stopped texting and picked up the phone and called her and nailed her on it. The fact she isn't paying attention to making the plans for the weekend tells me she is only lukewarm. Otherwise, she'd have either said right then when was fine or gotten back with you right away. So now she's clammed up because she thought she'd just get away with it and is resentful she didn't. Doesn't sound like anyone very nice or very interested, sad to say. Maybe her friend who thinks you're cute, though??

[BlueIris]

As soon as she texted back and didn't mention it, you should have stopped texting and picked up the phone and called her and nailed her on it. The fact she isn't paying attention to making the plans for the weekend tells me she is only lukewarm. Otherwise, she'd have either said right then when was fine or gotten back with you right away. So now she's clammed up because she thought she'd just get away with it and is resentful she didn't. Doesn't sound like anyone very nice or very interested, sad to say. Maybe her friend who thinks you're cute, though??

 

She sounds terrible. She really might not be that awful....

[Jono85]

The question you asked by text - she forgot it as it wasn't the last message she saw in her you -to-her text thread.

 

 

If you need a specific day then just call, words and much more memorable always.

 

 

If you had sent me a text basically saying I did wrong after one date and I should follow through then I wouldn't be seeing you again, sorry. That is passive aggressive.

 

 

I'm pretty laid back so if a guy needs to know something specific I expect him to step up and ask (just like I do if I need to know) and he will absolutely get his answer and he will know when I am free to see him.

 

i mean you're putting all the responsibility here on me, yet she was the one who said she'd let me know in the morning "for sure", to which I went to bed woke up and responded yes please do so I can let him know, to which she responded later that morning (ie. next text) about other stuff we texted about ignoring the thing she promised and thing I just said please do to. so yeah I called her out on it. I maybe shouldn't have tho, in fact I know I shouldn't have, but too late now. I did, and I think I'm now deciding she can hit me back if she realizes she should have gotten back to me given her word, and if not, no harm done we don't share the same values I suppose. onto the next one..

[fitnessfan365]

i mean you're putting all the responsibility here on me, yet she was the one who said she'd let me know in the morning "for sure", to which I went to bed woke up and responded yes please do so I can let him know, to which she responded later that morning (ie. next text) about other stuff we texted about ignoring the thing she promised and thing I just said please do to. so yeah I called her out on it. I maybe shouldn't have tho, in fact I know I shouldn't have, but too late now. I did, and I think I'm now deciding she can hit me back if she realizes she should have gotten back to me given her word, and if not, no harm done we don't share the same values I suppose. onto the next one..

 

 

Yep as I said previously, she isn't ACTING like a woman that's interested. I mean she may text with you to keep up appearances. But when you've tried to arrange plans she skates around one invitation and then just doesn't respond to the other. At this point, you need to back off and let her come to you. Then when she does, try asking her out one more time.

 

But if you don't hear from her, forget about her. As I said, I think she let you know she wasn't interested when she shot you down for the kiss. But of course she'll say she "doesn't kiss on the first date" just to try and spare your feelings. If it was a guy she actually wanted to see, she'd kiss him and enthusiastically accept a date invitation.

[GemmaUK]

i mean you're putting all the responsibility here on me, yet she was the one who said she'd let me know in the morning "for sure", to which I went to bed woke up and responded yes please do so I can let him know, to which she responded later that morning (ie. next text) about other stuff we texted about ignoring the thing she promised and thing I just said please do to. so yeah I called her out on it. I maybe shouldn't have tho, in fact I know I shouldn't have, but too late now. I did, and I think I'm now deciding she can hit me back if she realizes she should have gotten back to me given her word, and if not, no harm done we don't share the same values I suppose. onto the next one..

 

I will break down my reasoning here..

 

 

1.You were the one who very much wanted to know which day out of Friday or Saturday she would be free because your friend was to be in town.

 

 

2. If I need to know a plan I will do one of two things - either I will call or I will send another quick in between text to ask one more time because my friend needs to plan his/her weekend.

 

 

3. I am aware that we have a text thread going on an that on occasions you can forget to reply to things. It happens. I have done it unwittingly myself and for no sinister reason.

 

 

4. You met on Weds, your friend is in town this weekend. Due to those two things and that my 'date' had a life I wouldn't expect to see him again until maybe Sunday or Monday.

 

 

or 5, she is just not interested.

 

 

Whatever way you have made your choice so it's now irrelevant.

[Jono85]

Sure, why not? But chastising her like you did might have done you in. I mean, how do you react when a woman you’ve been on one date with scolds or chastises you?

 

OP, don’t become one of those pissy prissy people. I’m not saying that you’re this far to the extreme, but don’t become one. Tightly-wound people – men or women - who see things negatively, take offense or get annoyed by things that could be perfectly innocent, and who have lots of personal rules about what other people should do and be, and who are at war… are a drag. You’ve certainly met some.

 

Relax and try to enjoy dating.

 

Example: My BF and I had plans to watch the Final Four this afternoon, not specific yet. He called this morning and the first thing I talked about is that there’s a bad puppy sickness in Chicago, because my daughter just got a puppy and lives in Chicago. He is not upset that I didn’t talk about what time we’re going to watch the games first. He just raised the issue and we made plans. No one is hurt.

 

to play DA, you should have no rules about how you should be treated, and allow people to commit to things with you and flop, and continue on like they did nothing wrong and it didn't hurt you?? i would argue that the people that have a problem with others with bounderies are the people that break them all the time and feel like the world is centred around them? i'm not trying to instigate anything with you yourself, i do not know you one iota. i'm just saying..there's a reason she tiptoed around the commitment she made, and conveniently "forgot" to reply in text to the ONE thing she said she would "for sure" reply to, and replied to the other things. what that reason is, i don't know. again, i acknowledge wrong doing by calling her out on it..it was a mistake. i tried to put a winky face and make it seem like it was just something small, but i can see how it would not be perceived as such, and maybe in reality it wasn't a small thing, or else i wouldn't have mentioned it. that being said i should have mentioned it in person face to face and when values conversation came up like an above person mentioned, and not over text. it was a mistake.

 

BUT, it doesn't take away the fact of the matter and what she did. so yes, it seems like my comment definitely turned her off, but now i'm still so torn on how to handle this or where to go from here. ie. was that a character flaw, games she was playing, lack of interest...basically is it worth me pretending like it never happened and proceeding with trying for a 2nd date or not. i guess i'm still mulling it over..sigh.

[GemmaUK]

Good grief!

 

 

Dating is fun!

 

 

Is you feel like this then ditch it and move right on.

[elaine567]

So I texted her something i thought was kind of light saying "and it'd be nice if next time you say you'll do something 'for sure' you follow through ". I tried to convey it wasn't a huge deal with the winky face, but she hasn't texted me back since (this was Friday morning and we generally text daily).

 

I guess that sort of annoyed her.

 

How about her perspective.

YOU:I would like to take you out on a date, Fri/Sat but I have to fit in my very important friend first, so if you could let me know ASAP your schedule I can let him know.

Her:Not sure what I am doing this week-end. What's the big deal anyway? Sunday, Monday, next Thursday...

YOU: OK, so now you have pissed me off, next time, act better young lady.

Her: Get lost, who do you think you are? I hardly know you.

You are not my father!

[Jono85]

I guess that sort of annoyed her.

 

How about her perspective.

YOU:I would like to take you out on a date, Fri/Sat but I have to fit in my very important friend first, so if you could let me know ASAP your schedule I can let him know.

Her:Not sure what I am doing this week-end. What's the big deal anyway? Sunday, Monday, next Thursday...

YOU: OK, so now you have pissed me off, next time, act better young lady.

Her: Get lost, who do you think you are? I hardly know you.

You are not my father!

 

this is a great perspective lol. and why I come to seek feedback on forums, usually AFTER i F up mind u..

 

so how would u proceed given this perspective. do I msg her something light funny and pretend nothing happened? or do I acknowledge the situation quickly?

[Jono85]

so i texted her tonight something light/humourous which tied into her fam thing last night...to show that at least i'm over the situation and it wasn't that big of a deal to ME. she may obviously feel differently and my comment offended her/turned her right off and she may not text me back. at this point, if she's willing to throw this away b/c i expressed a little displeasure with her not following through to her word then i'm okay with letting this go. my execution was not perfect (ie. i should have brought it up in person) but at the end of the day if she can't understand how her telling me she'd for sure let me know in morning and me telling her please do b/c i'm waiting to tell my boy, etc...if she can't understand how MAYBE she could have handled things differently and either notified me as she promised, or simply excused herself or quickly apologized/gave me a reason as to why she "forgot" to notify me...then ok fine. we'll move on. her investment would have obviously been low imo in the first place if that's all it takes. to be honest i'm not expecting anything back so sall good. i def had a few reservations anyway during date as to whether she was gf material.

[DoesntGetIt]

I'll be honest, if a woman ever told me she doesn't kiss on the first date when I went in for the kiss, I would have been done. As a rule it makes zero sense as it is just a kiss, so I'd have to take it as lack of interest. No point in wasting my time with someone that has mild interest at best. Sitting opposite doesn't mean much either. I went on a date last week where we sat opposite each other all night with no touches or anything else, then when I walked her back we finished with kissing for a good 2 minutes. If there's interest, she'll kiss. If not, she won't.

 

 

Then there was your last text message, as others have said not a good move over text, better to wait until you hang out again and slip it in the conversation or just let it go completely and see if it happens again.

 

 

 

 

If too early in dating you get wrapped up in plans that get changed, canceled, don't get made far enough ahead of time, etc. You're going to drive the other person away as that already makes it too serious. Instead you just say "Alright, no problem. Talk with you soon." or something similar and just go enjoy your weekend.

[Jono85]

^^ i don't know..you say it's "just a kiss" but maybe all girls don't think like that. i understand it fine, ie. they want to get to know the guy a little more before they get intimate with them. i don't mind it actually at all.

 

 

update: she did text me back tonight and actually responded as if I never "scolded" her about the following through thing. she even threw in a smiley face after asking about how my weekend was going, so i'm quite happy about that. i was quite surprised as I thought i was done given her ignoring me like that, but me acting like it was no big deal and just throwing in a light funny text (which she thought was pretty funny) seemed to work ok (ie. i didn't apologize or bring up the old stuff). we'll see how this plays out going forward..

[fitnessfan365]

update: she did text me back tonight and actually responded as if I never "scolded" her about the following through thing. she even threw in a smiley face after asking about how my weekend was going, so i'm quite happy about that. i was quite surprised as I thought i was done given her ignoring me like that, but me acting like it was no big deal and just throwing in a light funny text (which she thought was pretty funny) seemed to work ok (ie. i didn't apologize or bring up the old stuff). we'll see how this plays out going forward..

 

Sorry to say this man, but you're living in major denial. The fact still remains that she ignored both invitations you offered for a second date. If she was truly interested, she would have accepted on the first one. Since she kept up appearances after the first date, not responding would be admitting she lead you on. So she'll keep being nice and making chit chat, until you get the hint and go away. If you want to know where you stand once and for all, you just need to be direct and ask her out one last time. If she says no or ignores the question like she did the other two times, walk away.

[Maleficent]

this is a great perspective lol. and why I come to seek feedback on forums, usually AFTER i F up mind u..

 

so how would u proceed given this perspective. do I msg her something light funny and pretend nothing happened? or do I acknowledge the situation quickly?

 

Let it go. She was clearly not interested and any other attempt on your part to fix this at this point will make you come off as clingy.

[GemmaUK]

Maleificent - OP already sent a text and she replied.

 

 

The tell will be whether she agrees to and goes through with one or a few dates.

 

 

A text reply is just simply a reply and doesn't mean she is going to date you.