alsudduth Posted April 2, 2015 Posted April 2, 2015 Hey guys! I new to forums in general. Usually I just snoop around and try to find answers that someone else has already asked. I finally decided to see what someone may have to say about my own relationship problem..... Some background - My husband and I started dating when we were teenagers. We have been together for 18 going on 19 years. We have two children that we both adore. The past 5 years or so have been pretty rough for us. I went through a period about 5 years ago where I wasn't sure if I wanted to stay married. My husband was not a very good husband and I was at my wits end. We went to counseling and things got better for awhile. About 2 years ago, he went through a similar experience but a little more extreme by telling me he wanted a divorce (I had never gotten that far with my feelings 5 years ago) That really really hurt me. I felt as though I had given 110% through our marriage and that he barely put forth any effort and it made me feel as though even with everything I did to make the marriage work, it still wasn't good enough....Anyway - we went to counseling again, this time a longer period, both individually and as a couple weekly for over a year. I feel like we haven't made a lot of progress. We both agree that we love each other, and that our children are the most important things to us....but we just can't seem to make a breakthrough in our relationship. About a month or 2 ago, I found a text he sent to his friend talking about how having sex with me was basically awful. That I don't do anything, that I just lay there....that REALLY hurt. I know that I hadn't been as enthusiastic about being intimate with him, however I felt like he had to know where I was coming from, I was still very hurt by him and when there is an emotional barrier it makes it really hard to "get into it" Now, we are at a place where we both are wanting to get past this rocky past we've had. I need advice on how to spice things up in the bedroom. As I mentioned previously, we started dating as teenagers, so naturally he is the only man I have slept with. This makes me feel very inexperienced even though we have been having sex for many many years. He has been with other women before me, and while it's been a long time for him too I still feel inexperienced next to him. I don't know what I'm supposed to do, or how to act. Maybe this is TMI, but I have a hard time coming to orgasm and I feel that without some guidance from me to help, we will never connect in the bedroom. The problem is that I don't even know what feels great to me. Even when I take care of myself it takes a lot to orgasm, and one day might be different than the next in terms of what works. Any ideas on how I can be better at this??? Thanks for reading my life story!
darkmoon Posted April 2, 2015 Posted April 2, 2015 it is not about what feels great to you, he is the one with the greivance, find out what feels great to him, blow-jobs are easy and well-recieved, look them up, wait til he baths/showers and just do it, surprise him, since bj's are nicely risque
Fhsjkfjrhsdh3646 Posted April 2, 2015 Posted April 2, 2015 Ok, I'm nowhere near as experienced since I've never been married, but as far as sex goes, I HATE when a girl just lays there. You need to get into it too, be VOCAL (not just words either ), and pay attention to what he likes. A good BJ is usually well received, give him lots of eye contact too. I think part of your reason reaching O is mental - you feel a disconnect during sex, which is probably why it takes so much more. If you just lay there and do nothing he's going to think he's having sex with a $100 hooker and not his wife.
GorillaTheater Posted April 2, 2015 Posted April 2, 2015 I've been married a long time, and I've said here before that I value enthusiasm over skill. Although my wife has both, it's the visible enthusiasm that really floats my boat. At the risk of making this more graphic than you may be comfortable with, "just lying there" implies missionary position. I assume you've used others, but maybe not. My wife orgasms easiest in Cowgirl, and although it's not my favorite position as far as my own orgasm, it's pure joy to watch her get, you know, "enthusiastic". We also do quite a bit of foreplay, mostly oral. I guess I'm throwing stuff out there, hoping some of it may apply. 3
salparadise Posted April 2, 2015 Posted April 2, 2015 I would add that you may want to grease the skids before heading to the bedroom. Try to communicate openly, express affection, appreciation and sexual desire throughout your day to day interactions. Touch, hug and flirt. Tell him you want him and that he turns you on. Use innuendo and be outwardly sexual. It will be so much easier to crank it up in the bedroom if it's just a continuation of your normal mode. It will help eviscerate inhibitions or suppressed resentment and make it easier for both of you to just let it flow. I could probably fall in love with any women who fed me a constant diet of those things. 2
Author alsudduth Posted April 2, 2015 Author Posted April 2, 2015 Thanks! We do do a variety of different things....I'm not a stranger to all positions, bj's, even some pretty wild things that most women would not do. Never threesomes or anything like that, I def. believe it should be between two people, but I'd like to think that I am open to trying almost anything. I watch porn, I watch it alone and with him, I'm not jealous of the fact that he watches more porn than me (maybe....) or that he masturbates as some women do. I find all that to be normal and I do it myself. I guess part of it could be too that I don't understand what he means by I just lay there....I try to be vocal, tell him when he does something that feels good, make satisfied sounds.... He does probably do more of the work as far as the in and out so it goes, I don't get on top too often, but not because I don't like it, because I'm heavier than he is and he has a bad back and it makes me feel self conscious or like I'm going to hurt him in some way. Maybe he feels the emotional disconnect as well but since men and women generally see sex differently most times (for woman it's very emotional where for men many times it's just about sex) maybe he translates it to I'm bad in bed. If he rarely does not finish (maybe a handful of times in the 18 years we've been having sex) and I rarely finish (maybe a handful of times in the 18 years we've been having sex) is that a me problem or a him problem.....I get that overall it's a we problem....but I feel so lost. I've told him on several occasions that I'd like to go on a date to an adult store and get a new toy for us to use - and seems interested but he never takes the initiative to do something like that with me. I should also say - that due to his back problems and some recent dental problems, he takes a lot of pain medication at times, and in general is always about 2 seconds away from falling asleep. I find it hard to initiate sex when he gives the impression that he just wants to be left alone to sleep. This is not an exaggeration. He comes home from work, if I'm lucky I get a mumbled hey, and if I'm luckier still a kiss hello before he takes his shirt off, sits on the couch, looks at his phone for 30 minutes and passes out until dinner time. One other caveat - I know I could make more of an effort in my appearance and I do try occasionally, however I work full time from home with a rare occasion of going to the office, have to prepare the kids for school, pick them up, I make dinner every night (unless I'm not going to be home) and generally take on all the responsibilities of keeping house. I play soccer once a week and work out 3 other days a week, so it does make it a lower priority for me to always be dressed to the nines with my hair down, styled and makeup primed. I get that he would like me to do more of that, and I'm willing to - if I saw the appropriate reaction from him when I did so. thoughts? Sorry for the long book again, I'll try to shorten them up! There is just a lot of back story that leads into these issues we have
GorillaTheater Posted April 2, 2015 Posted April 2, 2015 Well, there are always at least two sides to every story, but it sounds like you're a reasonably open person sexually, which makes the "dead fish" accusation a little suspect. Which means, of course, that your problems aren't in the bedroom, at least not far as the actual activities, and that the problem is in fact the lack of an emotional connection. What have you two been working through in counseling?
pteromom Posted April 2, 2015 Posted April 2, 2015 I guess part of it could be too that I don't understand what he means by I just lay there....I try to be vocal, tell him when he does something that feels good, make satisfied sounds.... Ask him. Maybe there is one specific thing he wishes you'd do, and you not doing it = just lying there to him. If he rarely does not finish (maybe a handful of times in the 18 years we've been having sex) and I rarely finish (maybe a handful of times in the 18 years we've been having sex) is that a me problem or a him problem.....I get that overall it's a we problem....but I feel so lost. You are in control of you finishing. He is in control of him finishing. It is up to you to communicate what will help you finish. And if you are unsure of what that is, it is up to you to try different things and figure it out. I've told him on several occasions that I'd like to go on a date to an adult store and get a new toy for us to use - and seems interested but he never takes the initiative to do something like that with me. Go to a website and pick out a few things together. It doesn't have to be a trip. I should also say - that due to his back problems and some recent dental problems, he takes a lot of pain medication at times, and in general is always about 2 seconds away from falling asleep. I find it hard to initiate sex when he gives the impression that he just wants to be left alone to sleep. This is not an exaggeration. He comes home from work, if I'm lucky I get a mumbled hey, and if I'm luckier still a kiss hello before he takes his shirt off, sits on the couch, looks at his phone for 30 minutes and passes out until dinner time. This is the pain meds - it is not you. It also could be the pain meds that he doesn't finish. it does make it a lower priority for me to always be dressed to the nines with my hair down, styled and makeup primed. I get that he would like me to do more of that, and I'm willing to - if I saw the appropriate reaction from him when I did so. This may be an issue, but it is so far down the list, it's not a big deal right now. Due to his pain and medications, you may have less control over fixing this than you wish you had, but you can certainly take initiative when it comes to communicating what you'd like to try, trying new things, and working on YOUR issues. You also can't let insecurity rule you. When you are on top, you worry that you are hurting him. How about trusting him to speak up for himself. Tell him... let me know if anything I do hurts you or if we need to switch positions. And if he does need to switch, it isn't because of your weight - it is because he has a bad back. 2
Quiet Storm Posted April 2, 2015 Posted April 2, 2015 My guess is that it's the pain pills. He probably doesn't feel like doing it anymore, and is projecting that onto you. He knows the medication is turning him into a crappy husband, but he doesn't want to give up the pills or find other ways to treat his pain, so he blames you. This is also why he's not interested in picking out new toys, finding ways to improve your sex life or helping you O. He doesn't really care about the health of his marriage or sex life, because he's numbed out from the drugs. 2
Author alsudduth Posted April 2, 2015 Author Posted April 2, 2015 So we started counseling to explore why my husband didn't think he wanted to stay married. He had feelings of being trapped, like he never was meant to be married, preferred to be alone, etc There was also another woman he befriended and while there was no physical affair there was definitely an emotional affair. He was talking to her more than he was talking to me, checking in with her, making her feel special in ways that he has not done for me in maybe the entire time we have been together. It of course hurt me deeply, yet he always told me that he wanted to be with me, that I was being crazy, that it was my own insecurities causing the problems in our relationship. Then a year after I had been telling him that I felt something was wrong in the relationship he out of the blue told me he wanted a divorce...so also part of counseling was dealing with the mistrust (not believing what he says when he says he wants to be with me but doesn't show it in ways that I have clearly outlined to him would make me feel loved by him) Prior to counseling but after he told me he wanted a divorce he had moved into the spare room, and we were quazi separated. I had an old friend contact me and as we started chatting we realized that feelings were developing between us. I told my husband this, and that was when he decided he wanted to try counseling. At that point, I wasn't sure I wanted to do counseling, I was so hurt knowing I had been lied to about his "friend" (he told me on a few occasions that he wasn't talking to her when in fact he was) And if we are being honest, I also did the same thing after the fact (he knows now) Anyway at the end of the day - my husband and I both had emotional affairs, have lied to each other, and in general both made some mistakes that contribute to the problem at hand. We are most definitely stuck in a rut. I don't know how to dig us out.
Fhsjkfjrhsdh3646 Posted April 2, 2015 Posted April 2, 2015 So we started counseling to explore why my husband didn't think he wanted to stay married. He had feelings of being trapped, like he never was meant to be married, preferred to be alone, etc There was also another woman he befriended and while there was no physical affair there was definitely an emotional affair. He was talking to her more than he was talking to me, checking in with her, making her feel special in ways that he has not done for me in maybe the entire time we have been together. It of course hurt me deeply, yet he always told me that he wanted to be with me, that I was being crazy, that it was my own insecurities causing the problems in our relationship. Then a year after I had been telling him that I felt something was wrong in the relationship he out of the blue told me he wanted a divorce...so also part of counseling was dealing with the mistrust (not believing what he says when he says he wants to be with me but doesn't show it in ways that I have clearly outlined to him would make me feel loved by him) Prior to counseling but after he told me he wanted a divorce he had moved into the spare room, and we were quazi separated. I had an old friend contact me and as we started chatting we realized that feelings were developing between us. I told my husband this, and that was when he decided he wanted to try counseling. At that point, I wasn't sure I wanted to do counseling, I was so hurt knowing I had been lied to about his "friend" (he told me on a few occasions that he wasn't talking to her when in fact he was) And if we are being honest, I also did the same thing after the fact (he knows now) Anyway at the end of the day - my husband and I both had emotional affairs, have lied to each other, and in general both made some mistakes that contribute to the problem at hand. We are most definitely stuck in a rut. I don't know how to dig us out. It sounds like you want to make things work, but he isn't fully invested in meeting you halfway.... I think he's going to have to put in some effort or there isn't a whole lot you can do. 1
GorillaTheater Posted April 2, 2015 Posted April 2, 2015 It sounds like you want to make things work, but he isn't fully invested in meeting you halfway.... I think he's going to have to put in some effort or there isn't a whole lot you can do. That's what it sounds like to me, too. This dude is simply not engaged. Is he cooperating with the MC and doing things that the MC suggests? 1
Author alsudduth Posted April 2, 2015 Author Posted April 2, 2015 Our last MC appointment was in January. Prior to that the counselor had me write a clear list to my husband about what I needed from him in order to feel like we were making progress on the relationship and to give it a timeline for him to engage and participate. Included on the list was: *Plan a date night twice a month, including finding a sitter for the kids - didn't have to be a go out and spend money, I would be fine with a stay home date and cook together, etc... *Initiate a conversation weekly with me about our relationship, things that are going well, things he would like me to work on, checking in on how I'm feeling *Make me feel beautiful and wanted not just when I have put makeup on, or am wearing a dress, but when I'm doing things that you appreciate like cooking dinner, tending to the kids 80% of the time, etc *On nights that he cooks dinner, to not just order pizza or throw some sandwiches together, and actually plan ahead. it doesn't have to be a fancy 5 course meal, I just wanted to see the effort being made. He poo pood the list, but said he would give it a try (This was end of Dec.) In our last apt. mid Jan, he scoffed at how terrible my list was, that it was stupid, and that he was tired of dealing with it in general. (all around he was pretty much a dick the entire apt.) at that point the appointment came to a head with the counselor suggesting that we go home and think for the night about the direction we were going to take (divorce or not) The next day, I told my husband to throw out the list, to do what he wants, and that I expect nothing of him. I told him I would give it to the end of March and see how I felt then. He was agreeable to this. He has made some effort, not as much as I like...My decision currently is to stay married because we have a tight knit immediate family (He, I and the kids) when it's the 4 of us together we tend to have a great time. It's when it's just he and I that things start to go downhill. I don't have anywhere else pressing to be right now, even if we were to divorce I wouldn't intend on embarking on another serious relationship until the kids are grown. My counselor says you can always get divorced and there is no rush to get there unless you are sure. So I figure I'll stick around a bit longer and see how things go. I admittedly have not put in a ton of effort in the last six months, because well, he refuses to (as per the above tantrum with my list) but right now I'm going to suck it up, be the bigger person and give it 110% again so that I know 110% if it doesn't work it won't be because I didn't try.
Author alsudduth Posted April 2, 2015 Author Posted April 2, 2015 That's what it sounds like to me, too. This dude is simply not engaged. Is he cooperating with the MC and doing things that the MC suggests? He says that other things end up taking priority over the relationship. Like the kids, work, medical stuff..... Which for obvious reasons does not make me feel very good, rather it makes me feel like I'm not worth being a priority to him.
Fhsjkfjrhsdh3646 Posted April 2, 2015 Posted April 2, 2015 Our last MC appointment was in January. Prior to that the counselor had me write a clear list to my husband about what I needed from him in order to feel like we were making progress on the relationship and to give it a timeline for him to engage and participate. Included on the list was: *Plan a date night twice a month, including finding a sitter for the kids - didn't have to be a go out and spend money, I would be fine with a stay home date and cook together, etc... *Initiate a conversation weekly with me about our relationship, things that are going well, things he would like me to work on, checking in on how I'm feeling *Make me feel beautiful and wanted not just when I have put makeup on, or am wearing a dress, but when I'm doing things that you appreciate like cooking dinner, tending to the kids 80% of the time, etc *On nights that he cooks dinner, to not just order pizza or throw some sandwiches together, and actually plan ahead. it doesn't have to be a fancy 5 course meal, I just wanted to see the effort being made. He poo pood the list, but said he would give it a try (This was end of Dec.) In our last apt. mid Jan, he scoffed at how terrible my list was, that it was stupid, and that he was tired of dealing with it in general. (all around he was pretty much a dick the entire apt.) at that point the appointment came to a head with the counselor suggesting that we go home and think for the night about the direction we were going to take (divorce or not) The next day, I told my husband to throw out the list, to do what he wants, and that I expect nothing of him. I told him I would give it to the end of March and see how I felt then. He was agreeable to this. He has made some effort, not as much as I like...My decision currently is to stay married because we have a tight knit immediate family (He, I and the kids) when it's the 4 of us together we tend to have a great time. It's when it's just he and I that things start to go downhill. I don't have anywhere else pressing to be right now, even if we were to divorce I wouldn't intend on embarking on another serious relationship until the kids are grown. My counselor says you can always get divorced and there is no rush to get there unless you are sure. So I figure I'll stick around a bit longer and see how things go. I admittedly have not put in a ton of effort in the last six months, because well, he refuses to (as per the above tantrum with my list) but right now I'm going to suck it up, be the bigger person and give it 110% again so that I know 110% if it doesn't work it won't be because I didn't try. Yeah he clearly isn't trying. Your list sounds reasonable, but keep in mind you should be making HIM feel appreciated too It's a two way street. Maybe he plans one date a month and you plan one date a month?
jen1447 Posted April 2, 2015 Posted April 2, 2015 Maybe he feels the emotional disconnect as well but since men and women generally see sex differently most times (for woman it's very emotional where for men many times it's just about sex) maybe he translates it to I'm bad in bed. If he rarely does not finish (maybe a handful of times in the 18 years we've been having sex) and I rarely finish (maybe a handful of times in the 18 years we've been having sex) is that a me problem or a him problem.....I get that overall it's a we problem....but I feel so lost Just to clarify, in 18 years of sex, both of you have had orgasms a handful of times?
preraph Posted April 2, 2015 Posted April 2, 2015 I felt as though I had given 110% through our marriage and that he barely put forth any effort and it made me feel as though even with everything I did to make the marriage work, it still wasn't good enough And here you are the only one who keeps trying and keeps trying. You can't fix it unless he accepts his responsibility and makes an effort as well. I hate to see you trying to have sex with him at all when you're not happy with him, much less reward him for his lack of effort by learning new tricks in bed. But if you feel you can fix him by learning different sex moves, then go to Amazon and search for a book on foreplay. It just seems to me that if he, for example, wanted you on top, he'd have pulled you on top by now, or if he wanted oral, he'd have given you oral and asked for you to reciprocate by now. So to me, it sounds like you definitely aren't the only one who just lays there.... 1
Author alsudduth Posted April 3, 2015 Author Posted April 3, 2015 Just to clarify, in 18 years of sex, both of you have had orgasms a handful of times? no just me. he almost always finishes.
preraph Posted April 3, 2015 Posted April 3, 2015 ^ This means he is terrible in bed. Well, here's my immediate suggestion and he might like it and it also might make him scratch his head for a minute and then pick up the reins: While he's not getting you off but is doing his routine getting himself off, get yourself off right in front of him right in the middle of it and show him how it's done. He'll probably be turned on. And if he's got a brain in his head, he will be taking notes and try to do that for you instead of you having to do it yourself.
Fhsjkfjrhsdh3646 Posted April 3, 2015 Posted April 3, 2015 Yeah it might be crushing for him to figure out he wasn't getting her off this whole time though, especially if OP never said anything and kept quiet. Granted he SHOULD be also asking her about her needs/etc. so if he isn't doing this... Anyway. You should always be communicating with each other about your sexual needs and not just sweeping them under the rug.
SycamoreCircle Posted April 3, 2015 Posted April 3, 2015 OP, I noticed you took an apologetic tone in your post, as if asking LS these sort of questions or talking about your private life was a burden on us or an embarrassment to you. Of course I don't know you or your husband but I think one step towards both of you getting what you want in and out of the bedroom is facing the fact that if there is not some deep, all-or-nothing, vulnerability happening, some deep emotional honesty, your marriage is doomed. I'm talking Lars Von Trier-type sh;t! (Sorry, self-indulgent, cinema reference.) I don't know what heights or depths the two of you have explored with each other, but I do think some people when faced with raw, blood-curdling emotionality have to either step-up and match it or walk away entirely. Do you think you can summon such vulnerability, such need? Do you think your husband can match it? These are questions you should consider.
Author alsudduth Posted April 3, 2015 Author Posted April 3, 2015 I don't know what heights or depths the two of you have explored with each other, but I do think some people when faced with raw, blood-curdling emotionality have to either step-up and match it or walk away entirely. Do you think you can summon such vulnerability, such need? Do you think your husband can match it? These are questions you should consider. We have discussed in our MC sessions that my husband is emotionally unavailable and that he in general does not trust women. He has been unable to be emotionally vulnerable to me, and does not trust me with his emotions.
Fhsjkfjrhsdh3646 Posted April 3, 2015 Posted April 3, 2015 We have discussed in our MC sessions that my husband is emotionally unavailable and that he in general does not trust women. He has been unable to be emotionally vulnerable to me, and does not trust me with his emotions. Then he isn't being your husband and won't be until he can trust you. Are you available to him in the same regard?
Author alsudduth Posted April 3, 2015 Author Posted April 3, 2015 Certainly thOTE=barcode88;6250952]Then he isn't being your husband and won't be until he can trust you. Are you available to him in the same regard? Yes. I try to be very open with him about what I'm feeling. Certainly there are times when I'm frustrated and shut down on him but I do eventually come around and talk to him about it. He would NEVER bring up our relationship if I didn't make us talk about it.
SycamoreCircle Posted April 3, 2015 Posted April 3, 2015 It's mind-boggling to me that he's been married to the same woman since high-school, has children by her, but doesn't trust women?! That sounds like some lame excuse he came up with for not dealing with his emotions. Rather, he doesn't trust himself. He doesn't feel competent in his feelings. They control him, so he suppresses them to not have to deal with their power. I'm ALWAYS suspicious of people who blame their SO for lousy sex. In my opinion, lousy sex = 0 vulnerability. Charge sex with vulnerability and openness and it becomes meaningful, satisfying sex. 2
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