Author katielee Posted April 1, 2015 Author Posted April 1, 2015 what the.... ACTIONS: does he come home on time, call you when he will be late, treat you well, not bad mouth you to others, not be overly flirtations in front of you and/or ignore you at parties, defend you when warranted (and not physically, think with his family or friends). seriously did you really need me to point that out? i guess i do. really beatcuff, that's all it takes? He did all those actions during his affairs too. It was only when I spied that I caught him at things. See how that works?
xxoo Posted April 1, 2015 Posted April 1, 2015 Another thing--if he's not honest with you, it could be because he doesn't trust you. It's actions vs. words. He says he trusts, but by withholding truth, his actions say otherwise.
Author katielee Posted April 1, 2015 Author Posted April 1, 2015 Another thing--if he's not honest with you, it could be because he doesn't trust you. It's actions vs. words. He says he trusts, but by withholding truth, his actions say otherwise. I agree with this. But not sure if there is anything I can do about it except continue to act trustworthy. 1
Zenstudent Posted April 1, 2015 Posted April 1, 2015 Another thing--if he's not honest with you, it could be because he doesn't trust you. It's actions vs. words. He says he trusts, but by withholding truth, his actions say otherwise. How does this work? That means that each time someone gets betrayed, it's their own fault because they're not trustworthy? Hmmm...
Zenstudent Posted April 1, 2015 Posted April 1, 2015 BTW, Katie, thanks for starting this thread, it has been one of the better reads this week.
xxoo Posted April 1, 2015 Posted April 1, 2015 How does this work? That means that each time someone gets betrayed, it's their own fault because they're not trustworthy? Hmmm... Of course not. We can't blame others for our own bad behavior. His lies are his fault. I'm just pointing out that his lies may reveal that he doesn't trust her, even though he claims he does. There's an elephant in the marriage, and they are pretending it doesn't exist. They don't trust each other.
TrustedthenBusted Posted April 1, 2015 Posted April 1, 2015 I no longer believe in the concept of trust. It's not as bad as it sounds though. Trust can be shattered. This is because it's an unreasonable expectation to begin with. These days, I trust nobody. Not because I am broken, or because they are untrustworthy. I just don't factor in trust anymore. I ask people for something, or set an expectation, and I move on knowing that they will, or won't live up to it. I am fully prepared for either outcome, and as a result, will not be shocked if they blow it. ( no pun intended ) So to me, trust is about expecting others to live up to OUR expectations of them.... and homey just don't play that no more. 1
Author katielee Posted April 1, 2015 Author Posted April 1, 2015 Trust, but verify Some things you just can't verify.
Author katielee Posted April 1, 2015 Author Posted April 1, 2015 I no longer believe in the concept of trust. It's not as bad as it sounds though. Trust can be shattered. This is because it's an unreasonable expectation to begin with. These days, I trust nobody. Not because I am broken, or because they are untrustworthy. I just don't factor in trust anymore. I ask people for something, or set an expectation, and I move on knowing that they will, or won't live up to it. I am fully prepared for either outcome, and as a result, will not be shocked if they blow it. ( no pun intended ) So to me, trust is about expecting others to live up to OUR expectations of them.... and homey just don't play that no more. Ha! I'm beginning to think this is the way to go - to just not care about it. 1
dichotomy Posted April 1, 2015 Posted April 1, 2015 Some things you just can't verify. Tell that to the NSA.
VeryBrokenMan Posted April 1, 2015 Posted April 1, 2015 Ha! I'm beginning to think this is the way to go - to just not care about it. That is what I had to do to be able to move forward. I told my WW I did not want to be a jail warden. She could choose to stay in my life by her actions and I had to get to a place where I was OK with losing the marriage if she cheats again.
VeryBrokenMan Posted April 1, 2015 Posted April 1, 2015 I no longer believe in the concept of trust. It's not as bad as it sounds though. Trust can be shattered. This is because it's an unreasonable expectation to begin with. These days, I trust nobody. Not because I am broken, or because they are untrustworthy. I just don't factor in trust anymore. I ask people for something, or set an expectation, and I move on knowing that they will, or won't live up to it. I am fully prepared for either outcome, and as a result, will not be shocked if they blow it. ( no pun intended ) So to me, trust is about expecting others to live up to OUR expectations of them.... and homey just don't play that no more. Well said! 1
Author katielee Posted April 1, 2015 Author Posted April 1, 2015 (edited) the thing is - I only found out by spying. so, I might not ever know it. My life is worth more than keeping tabs on him and because of this, I guess if he cheats or is lying then whatever internal consequences those bring, he'll have to live with. Likely none. But I do wish I had the "I got your back" feeling. Edited April 1, 2015 by katielee added a sentence
TrustedthenBusted Posted April 2, 2015 Posted April 2, 2015 But I do wish I had the "I got your back" feeling. Yeah, I miss this feeling too. Turns out I never should have felt it in the first place, and THAT was a painful reality to swallow. But in the end, there is a strange comfort in knowing that nobody ( except maybe your parents) ACTUALLY has your back 100%. I find it much easier to accept that I need to look out for numero uno, just like everyone else is doing. And that's ok.
Mrs. John Adams Posted April 2, 2015 Posted April 2, 2015 Katielee...my question to you is this...since you cheated first...you did not have your husbands back. Why would you expect him to have your back? I have a really hard time following your logic. You and I cheated first....then our husbands cheated. How can you and I possibly expect our husbands to have our backs? 2
Author katielee Posted April 2, 2015 Author Posted April 2, 2015 (edited) I think that in a real authentic relationship, that should be the goal. If our husbands don't think we have their backs, and that's what they determine they need, then the relationship should end. I think if we both can't get back to that, the relationship won't work out. I miss that feeling. He probably does too. How to fix it though? I know he didn't have my back when I cheated. But if a couple decides to reconcile, then they should. I'd like to know if he does NOW. Edited April 2, 2015 by katielee added a sentence
Author katielee Posted April 2, 2015 Author Posted April 2, 2015 I think real true grace comes from having each other's backs no matter what happens... no matter how much the other has hurt the other. Have their back or leave.... or decide to reconcile and recommit to it.
Lion Heart Posted April 2, 2015 Posted April 2, 2015 Very interesting concepts here. I guess it's different for different people in different situations & certainly with different life experiences. For me I'd say my basic nature is incredibly optomistic. This serves me well when I want to achieve something as an individual. Though in dealing with other people or situations where I depend on OP to carry out a task (at work or at home) I'm a pessimistic optomist. This way I'm not greatly disappointed. I just try another angle. BUT when discussing intimate relationships like M, at least when we're young. We do expect our spouse to at the very least be faithful and at the most be that and extremely committed. THOUGH in R after an A. And I'm just using the one spouse was unfaithful scenario, that M is done. R for me is totally about consideration of IF we can work out enough issues so that we have grounds to "re-marry" if you will. The massive issue for me in this R is this: would I choose to enter a committed relationship with a person who I KNOW cheated on his W & 3 chn. Would I trust a person who has lied & deceived his W? And the answer is a resounding NO!!! AND THIS ^^^^ is the reason WHY I will never trust WH 100% ever in my life. IMHO I'd be a total nutter to. I'd be totally committing to a person who I know hasn't totally committed himself to the M by having an A. I'm quite content in my workplace even though I don't trust anyone there 100% to carry out their roles. I'm fine with that. I have to check that they have but it just affirms the more committed workers and the far less committed ones to me. I don't care. I could've guessed who they were anyway. I know my WH was unfaithful (less committed worker) so expecting him to always and forever be what he hasn't been is a huge ask of me. Sure I'll check whatever I want whenever I want to. The A has made me far more vigilant and I don't like that but I either choose a cloud of denial or know the truth (or as much as is exposed by my own actions). Lastly, now even if I do D WH, I would not enter a new relationship with 100% trust on any level. So better the devil I know for me atm. LH
Mrs. John Adams Posted April 2, 2015 Posted April 2, 2015 (edited) Katielee...it was a very long time before my husband felt I had his back...a very long time....and that comes with rebuilding the relationship that was destroyed by the betrayal. What I am trying to say is...it takes time, it takes love, it takes patience, and understanding, and commitment, it takes remorse....which helps your spouse to know that you understand the pain you caused and will never do it again. Trust...once given freely...now has to be earned.....and that takes a lifetime. Edited April 2, 2015 by Mrs. John Adams 3
Author katielee Posted April 2, 2015 Author Posted April 2, 2015 Trust...once given freely...now has to be earned.....and that takes a lifetime. I agree with this... it was once easy. Now, it is not because it was broken. 2
Mrs. John Adams Posted April 3, 2015 Posted April 3, 2015 And you broke it....I broke it..... And because we broke it...we suffer the consequences. 2
autumnnight Posted April 3, 2015 Posted April 3, 2015 And you broke it....I broke it..... And because we broke it...we suffer the consequences. Exactly. I confess this probably makes me a bad person....I just have a hard time sympathizing with all these things written by someone who was the first to cheat. Earlier the statement was made: all I can do is continue to act trustworthy. Katieleee, if that is supposed to be good enough for him, why isn't it good ewnough for you?
Author katielee Posted April 3, 2015 Author Posted April 3, 2015 those consequences shouldn't last forever. Thus the meaning of starting this thread. If trust is something important to HIM and I can[t give it, then we should not be together. He should be with someone who can.
autumnnight Posted April 3, 2015 Posted April 3, 2015 those consequences shouldn't last forever. Thus the meaning of starting this thread. If trust is something important to HIM and I can[t give it, then we should not be together. He should be with someone who can. Whose consequences? Both...or just yours? Because that is what I am sensing. You are so hung up on the fact that he had one more affair than you. I really think you need to think long and hard about how big of a difference that really makes. 1
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