If separated is it an EA?

[fishstar]

Hi there, any advice much appreciated. If he has been separated for 8 years, would involvement make it an EA? Sorry, I just need to clarify before I elaborate as i wasn't sure if this was the right place. Bit more info: his wife apparently walked out on him 3 times. After the last time, which was maybe 3 years ago, they then sold their house. She lives renting in a different town with their teenage kids, and he lives renting on his own with his cat.

[d0nnivain]

IMO if the person is separated it's not an affair at all because they are on their way to being single. Problem is, until the divorce is final there is a possibility of reconciliation and you the new SO get to go through all the emotional upheaval of the divorce with them. I did that once. Never again.

 

 

Here, if I were you I wouldn't get involved. You say they have been separated for 8 years but then you say they have gotten back together 3 times. Until the ink is dry on the divorce, I would assume he wants her back. At best you would be a rebound. Proceed with extreme caution.

[carhill]

Doesn't sound like a committed partner to me so no affair, especially if your interactions are open and conspicuous.

 

One question to ask is why, after 8 years apparently separated, they aren't divorced. Generally, there's only a relatively rare set of circumstances which make that kind of arrangement acceptable to the parties and usually they revolve around religion or money or both.

[fishstar]

Thanks all and yes I have been being very cautious.

 

BTW I do not know if the 3 times her leaving him were within the last 8, or if some of them were before the 8 and I think they were married ofr 8 years before the 8, which is a long time overall, and to still not he divorced. Also I don't know if they necessarily got back together, if she then kept leaving with the kids again? But the house was sold a while back and they split everything. This was before I even knew him.

 

Yes, I have asked the same Q - why are they not divorced? When he first started making advances towards me, which I opposed, he said he was in the process of getting one. That was almost a year ago. I checked with a friend back then, and she said it was alright to get involved with him because lots of people stay separated long term, which I didn't know and it surprised me. Back then he told me he hardly saw his kids, never spoke to his wife, and was going to get a divorce, which hasn't happened. The reasons are religious and financial indeed, as well as his teenage kids.

 

I will probably need to elaborate on what's happening and will try to shortly.

[whichwayisup]

Hi there, any advice much appreciated. If he has been separated for 8 years, would involvement make it an EA? Sorry, I just need to clarify before I elaborate as i wasn't sure if this was the right place. Bit more info: his wife apparently walked out on him 3 times. After the last time, which was maybe 3 years ago, they then sold their house. She lives renting in a different town with their teenage kids, and he lives renting on his own with his cat.

 

I would say (if their separation is leading to divorce) since they are not living together and don't see one another (intimately) then he is free to do as he pleases.

 

Though keep verifying his story. There's no reason a divorce to take so long.

 

Also, don't you find it odd that he rarely sees his own kids? Bit of a red flag if you ask me..

[d0nnivain]

The complaint for divorce is a public record. Check with the local authorities to see if he or is wife filed. If nobody did, walk away. He's lying to you about being ready to date.

[fishstar]

No no, let me just clarify and perhaps elaborate now. None of them have ever filed for divorce. He didn't lie about it, he told me he was going to, but I know he never has/hasn't yet. Not sure why he said that to me, it must be a daunting decision for any man to make anyway, but perhaps at the time he really thought it would or should.

 

I know it's a combination of reasons why. As for her I don't think she ever has either. She doesn't use Mrs anymore, she has changed to Miss or Ms but keeps his name.

 

Him saying he hardly saw his kids was what he told me in the first few weeks of knowing me. I did indeed think it a bit strange, but I know it now to be true now. He doesn't have a regular arrangement with them but he does see them as they come to visit him from time to time.

[d0nnivain]

Because he hasn't taken that step after all these years you have to assume he doesn't want to. That would make me not want to date him because there is no future. You will never be more than a married man's GF

[fishstar]

Really? A married man's GF? Is that the same as an OW? I wouldn't be the former because no, he is not totally open about me, and I have realised I am somewhat hidden. Although in the beginning he told his brothers and his church pastors about me, which I was actually uncomfortable about!

 

Maybe I'll tell you some more now, and maybe some of you will say the same thing? Well I proceeded to get somewhat involved with him after a while of his advances and after my friend said it would be okay to date a separated person, even though I was never 100% comfortable with the fact that he was not divorced. He said a lot of things to me in the beginning about marriage, holidays, taking me to his church, and how much he liked me. I wasn't looking for a relationship at the time but we got on really well. A few months down the line I had grown quite fond of him, saw him a lot, talked to him every day, we have become friends (I think!). There was no sign of involvement with his wife at all.

 

But in all this time, as mentioned he hasn’t divorced, and we never did go anywhere together and he never took me to church. I felt he changed and 3 months ago, he told me that he and his wife now talk, especially about the welfare of the younger child. Fair enough. They are not back together but they do talk. He says he sees the kids more now than when I first met him. I can't call him on evenings or weekends. He says he is busy at church or with his kids. It's a pattern. But during the week in the daytime, he calls he all the time. I feel like I have to answer, even if I'm working and haven't got time, because he won't speak to me in the evenings or weekend. Also, this is quite embarrassing to admit, but occasionally he lusts after me...he calls me sometimes asking for sex and I don't entertain it. I am attracted to him, and we have been intimate before, but I feel uncomfortable with this phonecall and have told him that every time and hung up.

 

Previously I thought maybe we might grow, and see where it heads. But he doesn't want to do anything together, yet he won't let me go either. I told him from the beginning I was not interested in anything casual, anything with an MM or any kind of immature love triangle. When I tried to talk to him about his wife, he said he doesn't want to talk about it because it's not relevant! When I asked if they are getting back together, he says he doesn't know and it is up to God (!). If I ask him about us, he says he has debts and until they are cleared he can't think straight about anything. When I asked him does she know about me, he said it is none of her business. She can do what she wants and he can do what he wants! Yet he has expressed guilt about me before to me, making me feel like we are having an EA. In the beginning, that's what I said to him, but he said she didn't exist to him and he was moving on. All I do know is that he says recently he doesn't want to put his kids through any stress. Last week he said he tried to test the waters with them re the subject of his moving on with someone else (me?) and he said the older child (17) ended up in hospital with a seizure from the stress of the thought of his dad with someone else. He said the younger one is not coping with the separation situation either. But, then I wonder, wouldn't they be used to it if it has been so many years? He doesn't talk about them unless I ask and I don't anymore as it seems to upset him.

 

After this convo, I tried NC for one day and it didn't work because he got upset and kept calling. I missed him too because I do somewhat care about him and worry about his welfare. I don't really know what to think or do. Is it cheating if I carry on with him? Was it cheating before? I think we have established it probably isn't. I don't understand his situation, or how two people can stay in limbo so long. Not going back but not going forward. If his kids would never accept me, is there any point in carrying on? I don't want to hurt anyone. Why did he get involved with me, or has his situation actually changed? OR is it the same and he doesn't know what he's doing and saying?

Edited March 30, 2015 by fishstar

[carhill]

Dissecting all the details is a bit difficult with my old eyes but, essentially, if your interactions with him aren't public and conspicuous and you cannot, nor are encouraged, to be in contact with him at your convenience, then it isn't a typical dating experience.

 

One test for an EA would be if you can perform any behaviors and share any intimacies in front of his spouse.

 

As an example, before my exW and I were divorced, I met the boyfriend she moved into her house while I was delivering property to the house. Their involvement was open and conspicuous. We lived separately. They, generally, did not care what I thought of their relations. I felt that to be appropriate. We were divorcing.

 

The other poster who made the comments about filing is spot-on IMO. If no one has filed a lawsuit, then the rest is essentially vapors.

 

Does his religion disallow divorce? Some make it difficult and cast aspersions upon members who do divorce. Some people end up physically separating, get a legal separation and continue on in life with others, legally separated. They just can't re-marry legally.

 

When in doubt, protect yourself. No one else will.

[velvette]

I know a couple of people who took a long time, up to ten years to divorce after they separated, but their story was quite different. They separated amicably, their marriage was over, they stayed friends, dated other people openly and just couldn't be bothered with the logistics of divorce until one of them met someone else they wanted to marry. Then they amicably filed.

 

 

This story has red flags all over it.

 

 

First and foremost, he cant or wont explain what is truly going on.

 

 

Then you are kept a secret and forbidden to call him nights or weekends.

 

 

My guess is he is either trying to work things out with his wife or he has another girlfriend or two.

 

 

It makes no sense that he wasn't seeing his kids and now he sees them all the time. It also doesn't make a lot of sense his kids would be so distraught about him seeing someone if their parents were truly separated for 8 years....especially if they weren't even seeing him and had no relationship with him.

 

 

Perhaps, his wife kicked him out or walked out with the kids because he has issues like abuse, drinking, drugs, etc. Maybe she told him to get his act together if he wanted to come home and he cant or wont do that.

 

 

For all you know, he is leading a whole double life and wife is in another town with the family home where he resides as well but he has an apt for business reasons or someother reason.

 

 

Have you met anyone who knows him who corroborates his story?

[AlwaysGrowing]

You asking why is he involved with you is the wrong question that you need to answer.

 

Re-read your 11:11 post.

 

Why are YOU involved with him?

[fishstar]

In response to Carhill:

 

Dissecting all the details is a bit difficult with my old eyes but, essentially, if your interactions with him aren't public and conspicuous and you cannot, nor are encouraged, to be in contact with him at your convenience, then it isn't a typical dating experience.

 

Thanks Carhill, yes well I thought it could be at first because he acted as if he wanted to date, and told people about me. Then he backtracked, or perhaps his situaiton changed, I don't know.

 

One test for an EA would be if you can perform any behaviors and share any intimacies in front of his spouse.

 

This wouldn't be possible because I haven't moved in with him, don't even stay over at his place, and also I don't know his spouse. Have never met her, and I don't see when/why I ever would, especially at this stage. I have met his son who seemed to like me but this was at the very beginning as they were both working at my house.

 

Does his religion disallow divorce? Some make it difficult and cast aspersions upon members who do divorce. Some people end up physically separating, get a legal separation and continue on in life with others, legally separated. They just can't re-marry legally.

 

Well I mentioned the thing about being legally separated ages ago, but he denied this exists. He started quoting the Bible and the 'til death do us part' bit of his vows. I thought this was a little insensitive seeing as he knew I liked him, and he had made advances at me. He told me that until he or his wife die, they are married. I said, well what does the Bible say about her leaving you? He said that the Bible allows that a wife can leave husband for as long as she wants (!). Well I am not Christian, but I am from a culture which also finds divorce taboo, but even my culture will accept that if it is not working out divorce is allowed, and many people I know have had divorces, though after 2-3 years and then they found another partner, not 8 years of to-ing and fro-ing. Also if a wife left a husband and didn't come back then the husband probably wouldn't put up with this.

 

When in doubt, protect yourself. No one else will.

 

Indeed. Thank you.

[velvette]

Another thing, do you actually know for a fact that he told his brothers and pastors about you or is that just what he told you?

[d0nnivain]

Until he divorces her he will never be able to legally marry. Hence even if you carry on an open and obvious romance, which isn't what is happening, you will still be a married man's GF.

 

 

It doesn't matter how much you love him. He loves her. She is coming 1st. That is why he won't divorce her. No matter what you do, he will never be all yours.

 

 

Why would you want something less than everything?

[fishstar]

Have you met anyone who knows him who corroborates his story?

 

I agree he can't explain what's going on. I think that is because he genuinely doesn't know though. Yes, we have mutual friends and my mom has known him for quite a few years, he worked for them both. The story that he is separated and he sold his marital property is true. He doesn't use his current house for business, he genuinely lives there by himself with his cat and started renting that place after the other house was sold. Also the fact that he doesn't live with his wife, and she left him is also definitely true as I know people who know both parties. Also when I met his son, he talked to me voluntarily about their family situation and I don't think the kid would lie.

[fishstar]

It doesn't matter how much you love him. He loves her. She is coming 1st. That is why he won't divorce her. No matter what you do, he will never be all yours. Why would you want something less than everything?

 

Just to clarify I don't love him. I'm fond of him, that's all. A lot of people are fond of him, he quite a sweet, gentle guy even though it may not seem like it to people on here. His situation is sad and confuses me, and I wish he would do something about it, not for my sake, for his own. I don't want something less than everything and that's what I've told him and he knows.

[fishstar]

Yes, he did tell his brothers about me. I met one of them and he invited me to a barbequeue, which I didn't end up going to. I know his pastor knew because I was with him when he got a text implying he also knew ('you ignore me when you are in love' - I was quite embarassed about this, as this was the stage when I wasn't even sure about proceeding with him), and I believe him that he told him. Another mutual acquaintance also told me the pastor knew. That person knows him and the pastor, and me, and also made comments to be about how much he liked me. This was ages ago and it isn't really relevant since the situation has changed. But perhaps still a bit strange that he would tell them if he never intended to move on.

 

Apologies I could not work out how to 'multi-quote' into one message!

Edited March 30, 2015 by fishstar

[d0nnivain]

Then walk away from him. Stop interacting with him. Get him out of your life until he takes the affirmative step of filing. Unless you are willing to do that -- to put your foot down you are settling for less.

[fishstar]

Sure, I'm gonna do this. This is what I've been trying to do. Just been finding it hard because he keeps calling me during the day. I need to tell him I can't deal with this anymore.

Edited March 30, 2015 by fishstar

[devilish innocent]

He's either gotten back together with his wife or is seeing somebody else on the side.

[whichwayisup]

Sure, I'm gonna do this. This is what I've been trying to do. Just been finding it hard because he keeps calling me during the day. I need to tell him I can't deal with this anymore.

 

Are you scared to tell him how you feel and why he should divorce and settle things before he continues on with you? Don't be afraid to communicate exactly what you want, what your needs are and expectations. Don't settle for less.

 

There's no reason why he should still be legally married to his wife anymore.

 

It comes down to, if he really wants a divorce, he'll do it.

[fishstar]

He's either gotten back together with his wife or is seeing somebody else on the side.

 

It's neither of those..he could be working it out with her though, I'm not sure and he doesn't say. If he was doing this though, there would be no reason for him to call me several times a day. But then again you never know because some people want their cake and also to eat it lol.

 

Are you scared to tell him how you feel and why he should divorce and settle things before he continues on with you? Don't be afraid to communicate exactly what you want, what your needs are and expectations. Don't settle for less. There's no reason why he should still be legally married to his wife anymore. It comes down to, if he really wants a divorce, he'll do it.

 

Thanks and no I'm not scared, in fact that's what I've been telling him all along. Or to work things out with her..but either way decide and it will be better for him. But he doesn't decide, he just carries on in limbo acting as if this is normal, when he is really struggling on his own. Also, what can you say if someone says they don't want to divorce, using kids, religion, money as reasons/excuses? You have to just leave it be. I agree with you. It's just a little hard to stop all contact with him, because he depends on me somewhat emotionally and keeps calling. He gets upset if we don't talk for 2 days, which is ironic since he ignores me on weekends. There is already an attachment on both sides and it seems a bit harsh to break it. But if I can't fathom what's going on, I definitely need to try harder to let go of him and hopefully he will work out what he wants.