We Decided to Kick 19 yo Daughter out

[sweetjasmine]

Wow. My family is going through something similar with a teenage girl who's still a minor but whose behavior almost matches what you describe to a T, to the point where I got a knot in my stomach reading this thread. Unlike your daughter, this girl has no history of any kind of abuse and was raised by a grandparent. She's been receiving psychiatric treatment for some time and has manipulated and lied to her counselors and custodial grandparent to maintain her freedom and privacy so she could continue to engage in dangerous behavior. Even during a recent in-patient stay at the hospital, she was trying to work the situation to her advantage and resisted participating in her own treatment for a long time. Not even 2 weeks after her discharge, she was already making plans to engage in more dangerous behavior and use her hospitalization as a point of manipulation to get the grandparent to give in to her demands. Her sickness and behavior are both out of control.

 

What's happening with your daughter is something that everyone in the family fears is going to happen to this girl. I completely empathize with the anger, disappointment, and hopelessness...and extreme guilt at feeling angry, disappointed, and hopeless. The bottom line is that when you're dealing with a legal adult, all you can do is give them access to the resources they need to get help. If they choose not to get help and choose not to work at getting better, then there's really nothing you can do. Even if you can force someone to see a psychiatrist, you can't force them to participate in their own healing. And if it's bad enough, it becomes a choice of watching the whole family get destroyed or letting go and hoping they'll feel a need to get help. I don't envy you a single bit. I hope she starts making an effort to get well so all of these relationships can begin to heal.

[Downtown]

She's been diagnosed with everything from bi-polar to mild schizophrenia. But living with her I don't buy it anymore. She is quite the actress. If anything addictive personalty and borderline personality disorder.

Sumdude, I agree that you are describing many of the classic warning signs for BPD. Yet, even if she does have full-blown BPD, that does not rule out bipolar. A recent study found that 40% of BPDers also have co-occurring bipolar disorder. I mention this distinction because, whereas bipolar usually can be treated quite successfully by swallowing a pill, BPD is very difficult to treat and medications will not make a dent in it.

 

I therefore suggest that you protect yourself by learning how to spot the warning signs for both disorders. An easy place to start reading is my post at 12 BPD/Bipolar Differences, which is based on my experiences with a bipolar-1 sufferer (my foster son) and a BPDer (my exW). If that description of BPD traits rings many bells, I would suggest you also check out my list of red flags at 18 BPD Warning Signs. And I describe those BPD red flags in greater detail at my posts in Rebel's Thread. If that description rings many bells, I would be glad to discuss them with you.

 

I also would suggest you see a psychologist -- for a visit or two all by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you and your wife are dealing with. Importantly, if BPD actually is involved, you cannot rely on HER therapist to be candid with you. Therapists routinely withhold the name of the disorder from BPDer clients -- and from their partners, families, and insurance companies -- for the protection of those adult clients. It therefore is important to consult with a professional who is ethically bound to protect only YOUR best interests. If you're interested, I explain that in greater detail at Loath to Diagnose BPD.

 

A few months after my stepdaughter moved in she overdosed on the anti depressants, likely a suicide attempt. She was also cutting.

Sumdude, the APA's diagnostic manual (DSM-5) lists "self-harming behavior such as cutting" for only one disorder: BPD. That is, of the 157 disorders listed in DSM-5, only BPD has cutting listed as a defining trait. Moreover, many studies have shown that self harm like cutting is strongly associated with BPD. A 2004 hospital study, for example, found that

Self-mutilating behavior is a symptom seen in both men and women with various psychiatric disorders, but

the majority of those who self-mutilate are women with borderline personality disorder

. This complex, maladaptive behavior is used by clients as a means of self-preservation and emotion regulation, and is often associated with childhood trauma.

See

J Psychosoc Nurs Ment Health Serv. 2004

.

She won't go to therapy and take her meds so does she need help or not? Can't make her.

Having a mental disorder does not give her a free pass to verbally and emotionally abuse you and her mother. As you already realize, it is important that she be held fully accountable for her own choices and actions. This means she must be allowed to experience the logical consequences of her own bad decisions. Otherwise, she will have no incentive to confront her issues and learn how to manage them. (An obvious exception to this would be her slipping into psychosis or threatening suicide, at which point you should alert authorities so as to get her institutionalized for her own protection -- I had to do that nine times with my bipolar-1, adult foster son.)

 

If she really does have strong traits of BPD, her emotional development likely came to a screeching halt in early childhood (usually before age 5). The result is that she would have the emotional development of a four year old. Most large cities offer excellent therapy programs that, over a period of several years, will teach a BPDer how to acquire the emotional skills she never learned in childhood.

 

But, sadly, the distorted thinking process is such a "normal" part of the BPDer's thinking that the lack of emotional skills -- and the resulting thought distortions -- usually are invisible to the BPDers themselves. It therefore is rare to find a BPDer who has sufficient self awareness and ego strength to be willing to stay in therapy long enough to make a real difference.

 

With my BPDer exW, for example, I spent a small fortune taking her to weekly sessions with six different psychologists (and 3 MCs) for 15 years -- all to no avail. It didn't even make a dent in her behavioral and trust issues. She chose to only play mind games with the psychologists.

Edited March 28, 2015 by Downtown

[dreamingoftigers]

Okay she's not accepting things as quickly as you'd like but I think you need to realize that every time she was traumatized it's very possible that her emotional growth was stunted at that age.

 

So while she may look like a 19 year old woman on the outside she may be using the coping skills of a small child.

 

I know it's easy to get frustrated with her but acting as if this is all her fault is not the best way to handle you frustration.

 

Neither is putting a time limit on overcoming issues that took years to create.

 

At 19 her brain isn't even fully developed yet. And that's any human brain. Throw in the emotional damage she's acquired and it's extremely unrealistic for her mom and you to put such stringent expectations on her.

 

How about being neutral towards her and just accepting her for who she is?

 

Meh...I don't know...maybe she's better off not living with a mom who was suppose to protect her and keep her safe but failed and then turns around and blames her child for being who she is.

 

Does she think that anyone there even likes her or is she a "problem to be fixed?"

 

I was diagnosed at age 20 with BPD.

 

It was Bang-on.

 

The only thing that saved my ass was EMDR therapy.

 

That's not to say that everything is perfect, in fact there are day-to-day things I need to stay right on top of, or I don't manage to keep the house clean, hygiene, emotional responsiveness due to stress etc etc.

 

EMDR. That was it.

 

No one could have reasoned with me. It would have been impossible.

 

She sees herself as an object to be used for sex. She experiences love through sex, possibly exclusively. Pretty hard to break that once it has been ingrained in such a brutal primal way.

 

When you have an active mental illness such as this, the words just sound like blah blah blah because you aren't functioning in the reasoning part of your brain. You just aren't.

 

She is trying to feel okay. She is trying to blunt the pain and feel okay.Or at least alive.

 

She isn't going to start self-managing within two months.

 

It is not physically possible.

 

It's one thing to say "she needs treatment" but frankly, I went through treatment before having actual TRAUMA therapy.

 

It's really cute and all to get a diagnosis, but it really doesn't help if that diagnosis is merely a set of criteria delivered by a doctor whose limited perception of events is based on anecdotal evidence.

 

Get her a real brain scan if she will go.

Then work on trauma and being responsive to her feelings, instead of her behaviours.

 

EFT and EMDR are the two most effective therapies for cognitive change period. And ironically enough, the bulk of that has to do with responsiveness so that the person's brain can actually process their own feelings, instead of avoiding them.

 

But since she seems to only find relief through self-destructive means, you aren't going to "talk" her out of it. You just aren't.

 

You either give a long leash with a secure place for her to land, or you don't.

 

You give her the real choices, not the ones that control her behaviour.

 

So she met a guy at the beach and ran off to have a sexual ridiculous time with him.

 

She attempts suicide and ODs on drugs.

 

Yet somehow it seems to be chalked up to being a major inconvenience. "We spent a lot of resources fixing her and she's still broken, so we don't want her anymore."

 

I get that isn't what you are trying to show her or tell her, but she has so much toxic shame she is NOT going to be able to separate that her behaviour is not okay from she is not okay.

 

It's a hard line to draw with people that have toxic shame. But a necessary one.

 

What else do you guys have for a relationship outside of trying to treat her?

 

Does she do dinner and salon days? Shopping? Family nights?

 

What are her dreams and goals?

[hoping2heal]

My .02 cents

 

Did you guys have support from professionals when making this decision? I'm aware how enabling works but there are a different set of considerations that need to be realized when dealing with mental illness or trauma, in this girl's case it is a double dose of both.

 

The problem with kicking a person out in a situation like that is she is vulnerable and you can bet she will be a very easy target for someone looking to take advantage of her. While kicking out a lazy free-loading adult might prompt them to "get their **** together" so to speak, you have mental illness and trauma going on and she can't just get her **** together. The more likely outcome will be that she clings to and falls in with people who prey on her and exploit her. That is familiar to her and she has not yet learned any other way. She also has not yet learned how to balance and handle her emotions and feelings that stem from her traumatic abuse, so this is really a ripe cherry for the addictive substances picking. She needs stability and patience and the kind of services that allow her to process, accept, heal and understand and much more than that TOO if she has other mental health issues going on.

 

I don't think kicking her out set her up to be more independent and make better choices, it just set her up to be exploited by the types of people who love to find girls like her and make them prostitutes or drug addicted clientale.

 

I have a family member who works as part of the prison rehabilitation program in my state. Statistically, 87% of offenders for drugs and/or prostitution that have come through that prison door have experienced childhood sexual abuse. Having that happen at such a young age makes you a prime candidate because the lines between healthy boundaries has been blurred and you become used to people exploiting and using you - it is becomes normal and if you don't start seeking solace in a substance; drugs, alchohol, or food on your own - there's a proverbial pimp out there just waiting to show you a whole new hell.

 

Every single one of you needs professional support to deal with this. Please reconsider what you have done.

[loveweary11]

Okay she's not accepting things as quickly as you'd like but I think you need to realize that every time she was traumatized it's very possible that her emotional growth was stunted at that age.

 

So while she may look like a 19 year old woman on the outside she may be using the coping skills of a small child.

 

I know it's easy to get frustrated with her but acting as if this is all her fault is not the best way to handle you frustration.

 

Neither is putting a time limit on overcoming issues that took years to create.

 

At 19 her brain isn't even fully developed yet. And that's any human brain. Throw in the emotional damage she's acquired and it's extremely unrealistic for her mom and you to put such stringent expectations on her.

 

How about being neutral towards her and just accepting her for who she is?

 

Meh...I don't know...maybe she's better off not living with a mom who was suppose to protect her and keep her safe but failed and then turns around and blames her child for being who she is.

 

There comes a point, when you are a caregiver for the mentally ill, that you have done all you can and things aren't looking up.

 

The OP has, no doubt, spent countless hours of his life trying to help this adult child.

 

There comes a time when he has to focus on his own life.

[loveweary11]

And wow. Most of these posts are startlingly identical to how my ex wife behaved.

[Fleur de cactus]

This is a very sad situation, It is not easy for her, since she is not able to make a good judgment. I am sure you are tired and emotionally drained and need a break, a relief. However, the way you approached the situation is not going to help any of you. With her mental issues, you are not sure where she will end up. How is her safety now? I know she have been in treatment and is refusing to take medication, but I hope there are some local resources that can help her. Social services can help to explore those resources. She does not have to stay with you since it is too much for you. But I think she can find assistance in housing, and someone who can check on her once in while to make sure she follow her plan.

[sumdude]

Sumdude, I agree that you are describing many of the classic warning signs for BPD. Yet, even if she does have full-blown BPD, that does not rule out bipolar. A recent study found that 40% of BPDers also have co-occurring bipolar disorder. I mention this distinction because, whereas bipolar usually can be treated quite successfully by swallowing a pill, BPD is very difficult to treat and medications will not make a dent in it.

 

I therefore suggest that you protect yourself by learning how to spot the warning signs for both disorders. An easy place to start reading is my post at 12 BPD/Bipolar Differences, which is based on my experiences with a bipolar-1 sufferer (my foster son) and a BPDer (my exW). If that description of BPD traits rings many bells, I would suggest you also check out my list of red flags at 18 BPD Warning Signs. And I describe those BPD red flags in greater detail at my posts in Rebel's Thread. If that description rings many bells, I would be glad to discuss them with you.

 

I also would suggest you see a psychologist -- for a visit or two all by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you and your wife are dealing with. Importantly, if BPD actually is involved, you cannot rely on HER therapist to be candid with you. Therapists routinely withhold the name of the disorder from BPDer clients -- and from their partners, families, and insurance companies -- for the protection of those adult clients. It therefore is important to consult with a professional who is ethically bound to protect only YOUR best interests. If you're interested, I explain that in greater detail at Loath to Diagnose BPD.

 

Sumdude, the APA's diagnostic manual (DSM-5) lists "self-harming behavior such as cutting" for only one disorder: BPD. That is, of the 157 disorders listed in DSM-5, only BPD has cutting listed as a defining trait. Moreover, many studies have shown that self harm like cutting is strongly associated with BPD. A 2004 hospital study, for example, found that

Self-mutilating behavior is a symptom seen in both men and women with various psychiatric disorders, but

the majority of those who self-mutilate are women with borderline personality disorder

. This complex, maladaptive behavior is used by clients as a means of self-preservation and emotion regulation, and is often associated with childhood trauma.

See

J Psychosoc Nurs Ment Health Serv. 2004

.

Having a mental disorder does not give her a free pass to verbally and emotionally abuse you and her mother. As you already realize, it is important that she be held fully accountable for her own choices and actions. This means she must be allowed to experience the logical consequences of her own bad decisions. Otherwise, she will have no incentive to confront her issues and learn how to manage them. (An obvious exception to this would be her slipping into psychosis or threatening suicide, at which point you should alert authorities so as to get her institutionalized for her own protection -- I had to do that nine times with my bipolar-1, adult foster son.)

 

If she really does have strong traits of BPD, her emotional development likely came to a screeching halt in early childhood (usually before age 5). The result is that she would have the emotional development of a four year old. Most large cities offer excellent therapy programs that, over a period of several years, will teach a BPDer how to acquire the emotional skills she never learned in childhood.

 

But, sadly, the distorted thinking process is such a "normal" part of the BPDer's thinking that the lack of emotional skills -- and the resulting thought distortions -- usually are invisible to the BPDers themselves. It therefore is rare to find a BPDer who has sufficient self awareness and ego strength to be willing to stay in therapy long enough to make a real difference.

 

With my BPDer exW, for example, I spent a small fortune taking her to weekly sessions with six different psychologists (and 3 MCs) for 15 years -- all to no avail. It didn't even make a dent in her behavioral and trust issues. She chose to only play mind games with the psychologists.

 

Almost to a T. She with our help started with the county which has great services. She never followed through and yes played mind games. She will tell people what they want to hear but her actions and words do not match. We made it clear that it was about consequences for her actions or lack thereof. She is always the victim and cannot realize or admit that maybe she can be at fault. I've known this for a while. i do love her, trying tough love at this point because nothing else has worked and I and my wife are drained and are lucky if our relationship survives. Her staying here indefinitely seemed to us a no win situation for anyone. She would continue the same behavior and we would just have to somehow put up with it until when? If she doesn't want to change and get the help to do it what can we do? BPD is rarely diagnosed and some don't think it's a real condition.

 

At this point i know myself I need to see someone, I'm pretty damn depressed.

Edited March 29, 2015 by sumdude

[Tayla]

There comes a point, when you are a caregiver for the mentally ill, that you have done all you can and things aren't looking up.

 

The OP has, no doubt, spent countless hours of his life trying to help this adult child.

 

There comes a time when he has to focus on his own life.

 

I agree, each adult is deserving of healing, good point!

 

Where i differ is he is the step father and has been in her life a brief amount of time. He came into this scenario and sadly is being held to a high standard of making medical decisions along with his wife. The family unit and each person would fair well with some group and individual counseling.

 

op? have you spoke to a counselor for your own well being? What about any state help? they do have programs that the court can order her to participate in, its a way to move someone into being independent while dealing with their illness... worth a look into?

[sumdude]

I agree, each adult is deserving of healing, good point!

 

Where i differ is he is the step father and has been in her life a brief amount of time. He came into this scenario and sadly is being held to a high standard of making medical decisions along with his wife. The family unit and each person would fair well with some group and individual counseling.

 

op? have you spoke to a counselor for your own well being? What about any state help? they do have programs that the court can order her to participate in, its a way to move someone into being independent while dealing with their illness... worth a look into?

 

For counseling my wife has and I am planning to and then us together. As far as a court order. We've been there done that while she was a minor. Now it's out of our hands.

[Tayla]

pleased to hear you are considering counseling. Conservatorship is a venue that can be established should your wife wish to go that route.It would be her decision if she is up to it. Worth considering or getting advisal on.

 

Just hate to be one if those with a defeatist attitude in saying there is nothing that can be done....small steps and other avenues surely exist. anyways do take care... and thank you for getting the word out on illness and how it does affact the family

[sumdude]

pleased to hear you are considering counseling. Conservatorship is a venue that can be established should your wife wish to go that route.It would be her decision if she is up to it. Worth considering or getting advisal on.

 

Just hate to be one if those with a defeatist attitude in saying there is nothing that can be done....small steps and other avenues surely exist. anyways do take care... and thank you for getting the word out on illness and how it does affact the family

 

Thanks, it's probably twisted logic but getting her out is doing something in the hope maybe just maybe she takes some personal responsibility for herself. Probably won't work but nothing else has. Not defeated but worn down to the nub.

 

We were advised about taking legal action. If we did we would be responsible for her actions. If she decided to rob a liquor store for example we could be legally liable. I don't see how this helps anyone since she has shown no signs of wanting to be helped other than have everything her way with no responsibility.

[sumdude]

This is a very sad situation, It is not easy for her, since she is not able to make a good judgment. I am sure you are tired and emotionally drained and need a break, a relief. However, the way you approached the situation is not going to help any of you. With her mental issues, you are not sure where she will end up. How is her safety now? I know she have been in treatment and is refusing to take medication, but I hope there are some local resources that can help her. Social services can help to explore those resources. She does not have to stay with you since it is too much for you. But I think she can find assistance in housing, and someone who can check on her once in while to make sure she follow her plan.

 

We've gone the route of social services when she was a minor and since. As an adult she signed up since we took her then never showed up for a single appointment.

[amaysngrace]

There comes a point, when you are a caregiver for the mentally ill, that you have done all you can and things aren't looking up.

 

The OP has, no doubt, spent countless hours of his life trying to help this adult child.

 

There comes a time when he has to focus on his own life.

 

Then he should be the one to leave. Not his wife's child.

[sumdude]

Does she think that anyone there even likes her or is she a "problem to be fixed?"

 

I was diagnosed at age 20 with BPD.

 

It was Bang-on.

 

The only thing that saved my ass was EMDR therapy.

 

That's not to say that everything is perfect, in fact there are day-to-day things I need to stay right on top of, or I don't manage to keep the house clean, hygiene, emotional responsiveness due to stress etc etc.

 

EMDR. That was it.

 

No one could have reasoned with me. It would have been impossible.

 

She sees herself as an object to be used for sex. She experiences love through sex, possibly exclusively. Pretty hard to break that once it has been ingrained in such a brutal primal way.

 

When you have an active mental illness such as this, the words just sound like blah blah blah because you aren't functioning in the reasoning part of your brain. You just aren't.

 

She is trying to feel okay. She is trying to blunt the pain and feel okay.Or at least alive.

 

She isn't going to start self-managing within two months.

 

It is not physically possible.

 

It's one thing to say "she needs treatment" but frankly, I went through treatment before having actual TRAUMA therapy.

 

It's really cute and all to get a diagnosis, but it really doesn't help if that diagnosis is merely a set of criteria delivered by a doctor whose limited perception of events is based on anecdotal evidence.

 

Get her a real brain scan if she will go.

Then work on trauma and being responsive to her feelings, instead of her behaviours.

 

EFT and EMDR are the two most effective therapies for cognitive change period. And ironically enough, the bulk of that has to do with responsiveness so that the person's brain can actually process their own feelings, instead of avoiding them.

 

But since she seems to only find relief through self-destructive means, you aren't going to "talk" her out of it. You just aren't.

 

You either give a long leash with a secure place for her to land, or you don't.

 

You give her the real choices, not the ones that control her behaviour.

 

So she met a guy at the beach and ran off to have a sexual ridiculous time with him.

 

She attempts suicide and ODs on drugs.

 

Yet somehow it seems to be chalked up to being a major inconvenience. "We spent a lot of resources fixing her and she's still broken, so we don't want her anymore."

 

I get that isn't what you are trying to show her or tell her, but she has so much toxic shame she is NOT going to be able to separate that her behaviour is not okay from she is not okay.

 

It's a hard line to draw with people that have toxic shame. But a necessary one.

 

What else do you guys have for a relationship outside of trying to treat her?

 

Does she do dinner and salon days? Shopping? Family nights?

 

What are her dreams and goals?

 

I wish I could answer all your questions. What i know is that she..today.. will not go or respond to therapy. We have been as supportive as we can and no, we're not perfect.. who is? She said she wanted to go to college and study child care. We have been wanted her to just take a class.. part time job... go to therapy...minor chores... something. That is all we asked for her to stay at home. She did nothing and is a slave to her compulsions. God I wish there were better answers.

[Tayla]

Thanks, it's probably twisted logic but getting her out is doing something in the hope maybe just maybe she takes some personal responsibility for herself. Probably won't work but nothing else has. Not defeated but worn down to the nub.

 

We were advised about taking legal action. If we did we would be responsible for her actions. If she decided to rob a liquor store for example we could be legally liable. I don't see how this helps anyone since she has shown no signs of wanting to be helped other than have everything her way with no responsibility.

 

conservatorship hmmm... Get a second opinion, someone may not have clarified the duties and responsibilities.

 

anyways... your wife would be the one as she is the maternal parent...and as you mentioned she has her own challenges at this time...may she gain strength from this sad scenario

[amaysngrace]

The main problem I see is that sum dude decided to get involved with a mess of a woman. She made "every mistake in the book" according to him and "had been through the wringer".

 

Plus hooked up with a lot of "azzholes" according to him.

 

So my question is, how has the wife changed?

 

In this thread he says she's a victim, she checked out when her marriage failed and subjected her children to physical and sexual abuse, the other daughter is doing okay so why can't this one?

 

Who knows? Maybe she took the brunt of the abuse because she tried to protect her younger sister? That's common.

 

But rather than blame this 19 year old maybe he should put the blame where it belongs...and look directly at his wife.

 

She is weak. Did he really expect her to have strong children?

 

The hypocrisy of it all is that expectations only are placed on one person...and that's the truest victim in this scenario. The 19 year old.

[dreamingoftigers]

I wish I could answer all your questions. What i know is that she..today.. will not go or respond to therapy. We have been as supportive as we can and no, we're not perfect.. who is? She said she wanted to go to college and study child care. We have been wanted her to just take a class.. part time job... go to therapy...minor chores... something. That is all we asked for her to stay at home. She did nothing and is a slave to her compulsions. God I wish there were better answers.

 

My husband is in a similar state, that's why I have been able to empathize with him for years.

 

However, it has gotten to the point where I have to pick between my five year-old's stability and trying to work things out with his issues.

 

I know I threw a lot of questions at you, but I can hear where the tonality is not going to connect with her.

 

As someone who had been afflicted with, I'll call it, "Emotional Flooding" up until I had EMDR, I can tell you that it was more painful living day to day with an unhealthy brain than losing my husband, potentially losing my daughter and having a list of stresses dealing from my husband's cheating etc. with a healthy brain.

 

That is not a joke. Having an unhealthy brain is not like having a "bad day."

 

It's kind of like having your mother die and having to carry around her body, every day.

 

Only one third of BPD people are even able to consistently work.

 

I believe that is directly because of the emotional flooding that comes with the disorder.

 

I find, to this day, that if I suffer a heavy enough trigger with my relationship that it takes me five days to get back to square one.

 

I am 32, I have had trauma therapy. I do need more. They can only fix up about 80% of everything. But I haven't been hospitalized in 10+ years and don't break down with regularity. I work consistently and quite hard. I am able to parent. When I did go back to school I received 8 scholarships.

 

But it still takes five days to get back to square one. I am talking disrupted sleep, total anxiety. Five days. Take that in because your daughter is in far worse shape than I ever was.

 

She is literally not living in the same reality you are. That doesn't mean she's delusional.

 

You are talking about courses and part-time jobs.

 

I am thinking, hey, get up before noon and shower. Then we'll do something to help you be secure with the fact that we don't hate you. And we'll do that for three months. And maybe we won't respond personally to every button that you are inevitably going to push. We are going to respond to the feeling. And you are going to take off, and we are going to 180. 180. 180. 180. Until you get that this is your home.

 

Then maybe, if we have some coin, we'll go with you to amenclinics and actually see what the real deal is. And maybe get you some real trauma therapy. Because drugging you up isn't working for you or us and we might have spent what could be the last years of your life trying to control your behaviour and fix you instead of enjoying you. (Even though you can be frustrating as all Hell, but we damn well know that you aren't going to be able to process regular empathy about that considering your mind is fighting a war right now. So we will deal with the frustration because we are the actual adults and we know damn well that you appear to be young and insolent, but that behaviour is the clear-cut symptom of a troubled mind as is the manipulation.)

 

Tall Order and effing tough. Tough as all Hell.

 

I don't envy you, and you've probably listened to every "professional" out there.

 

The people that helped me the absolute most were not in general professionals. My Bishop (we don't have paid clergy in my church) basically asked me what I needed to manage. And he supplied it. Then I started to realize my management wasn't exactly perfect. That was a start.

 

One nurse spoke with me, truly listened and empathized. I never forgot that. She actually straight-up listened to how I felt about my situation and my life. She did not give me one iota of judgment.

 

No one responds to feeling judged. *cough* whoops. Sorry. *cough cough*

 

I would put some serious money on the fact that she feels like an incovenient project that is entitled to being loved and liked first, and if you are lucky she feels like a beloved daughter.

 

And you compared her to her thriving sister.

We are not all given the same brain and experiences. Experiencing the same thing a couple years apart in early development can have a profoundly different impact. Even birth order has an impact on development.

[minimariah]

There comes a time when he has to focus on his own life.

 

you don't have that luxury when you're a parent. when you're a parent - your child always comes 1st. children (no matter how old) are not some kind of broken toy you can get rid of when things get too tough, come on. especially when you know what the said child went through.

 

Put a 5 and 6 year old on the stand?

 

i've never heard of the court putting a small child on stand in order to prove their abuse. usually, when child abuse is reported - they're immediately supervised + questioned by the child psychologists. so that's why i'm having a hard time taking your justifications seriously.

 

i mean, you'll do whatever you want and so will your W. i honestly, don't think that neither one of you is even competent to deal with abused & mentally ill child (i can literally tell that from your 1st post) so being away from you guys actually isn't a bad idea.

 

it's just bad that she didn't find help she is so desperately screaming for.

[minimariah]

We are not all given the same brain and experiences. Experiencing the same thing a couple years apart in early development can have a profoundly different impact. Even birth order has an impact on development.

 

indeed.

 

they're treating her like a failed project, they're upset they gave her "everything" and she STILL won't behave. they don't even understand the basics of mental illness - they actually think she can control her own brain, emotions, her own mind (the girl has mild schizophrenia).

 

you can tell from the OP's posts how much they stigmatize her because of the mental illness & judge her - he is describing her as lazy (won't "listen" - go to atherapy + take meds), doesn't recognize her sexual adventures as one of the biggest BPD signs, they sent her to "special school for kids with issues" and got her a "special status" diploma, she went "nuts"... i mean... she refuses to take meds + go to her appointments and they took that as her not needing any help.

 

my heart breaks for this girl. people don't know what it's like living a hell every single day in your own mind, a kind of hell you cannot escape from + meds make you feel DEAD. this child is screaming for help and her "parents"

are getting rid of her because it became too difficult.

 

let me to call my folks and tell them how grateful i am & how much i love them.

[sumdude]

Well I suppose I expected to be judged harshly. You can't really know me or my wife or my stepdaughter and where we are and how we are. I'll leave this thread here and talk to professionals who know the situation. We haven't given up. I know my stepdaughter. She has come a very very long way already. She is smart, vibrant and capable of so much once puts her mind, heart and work into it. We've told her that so many times. We didn't give up on her, we gave up on a situation that wasn't working. We won't stop supporting her and when she asks for it we're still here for her. I know she will surprise everyone one day.

Edited March 30, 2015 by sumdude

[amaysngrace]

So kicking out a person who is prone to suicidal ideology no longer means giving up on them?

 

Fascinating.

 

Yes. Please go speak with a professional.

[minimariah]

Well I suppose I expected to be judged harshly. You can't really know me or my wife or my stepdaughter and where we are and how we are. I'll leave this thread here and talk to professionals who know the situation. We haven't given up. I know my stepdaughter. She has come a very very long way already. She is smart, vibrant and capable of so much once puts her mind, heart and work into it. We've told her that so many times. We didn't give up on her, we gave up on a situation that wasn't working. We won't stop supporting her and when she asks for it we're still here for her. I know she will surprise everyone one day.

 

look, don't take the harsh posts as judging.

people are trying to "shake you up" & show you that you & your W are making a mistake. a lot of us is speaking from similar experiences and we know it isn't easy. you can help her in many other ways, kicking her out won't help.

 

when you kicked her out - you stopped supporting her. because your doors are now closed to her & she will feel like she can't ask you for help. you basically cut off her only safe place, that sucks.

[UpwardForward]

There comes a point, when you are a caregiver for the mentally ill, that you have done all you can and things aren't looking up.

 

The OP has, no doubt, spent countless hours of his life trying to help this adult child.

 

There comes a time when he has to focus on his own life.

 

Wife's offspring are a part of OP's life. Became so, when he married.

 

I would never give up on my kids.

[badpenny]

look, don't take the harsh posts as judging.

people are trying to "shake you up" & show you that you & your W are making a mistake. a lot of us is speaking from similar experiences and we know it isn't easy. you can help her in many other ways, kicking her out won't help.

 

when you kicked her out - you stopped supporting her. because your doors are now closed to her & she will feel like she can't ask you for help. you basically cut off her only safe place, that sucks.

 

I don't think the OP is making a mistake at all. I think he did the only thing left to him.

I think that he has probably - with his wife - tried everything they can to date, to try to engineer a favourable outcome for everyone.

I think some people are being unnecessarily harsh and judgemental, which when you think of the Good Book's recommendation to 'Judge not lest ye be judged' is a bit rich.

 

It's important before casting aspersions, that you can hold up your hand and say "I have exactly the same experience and know precisely of what I speak".

 

Well, unless you have personally been in such a situation, you need to back off and cut sumdude some slack, because frankly, I think he's been to hell and back, and has stared Despair in the face.

I wouldn't be in his shoes for all the money available, and I wish him, his wife and the daughter the very best in every way possible.

 

I hope this comes to a good resolution, but I firmly believe that if it doesn't it won't have been for the want of trying.