kaylan Posted March 25, 2015 Posted March 25, 2015 (edited) Lets say youre someone whos been burned in the past by a few liars. Lets say that presently youre dating someone who seems like a decent enough person. Things are going ok, but your guard has been up in the early going because youre cautious. Lets say that after a few months, you find out the person youre seeing lied to you twice about something from their dating past. It wasnt something huge, but apparently they thought it was important enough to give a false answer during in-depth talks while learning about one another. This is something that is not really super important, and you find it stupid that they lied about it given other things you already were told about them. And matter of fact, its the fact that they lied that bothers you really...not the information received. Now lets say you found out about the lie because you did a little snooping....classic case of not liking what you find. Youve clearly overstepped boundaries yourself. So what would you do? Im of the the mind that in such a situation there are two good reasons to be honest with the person youre dating, and bail; 1. Clearly if you have to snoop and always seem to have youre guard up, you dont have enough ability to trust just yet. Thus any kind of dating beyond casually seeing something, is not feasible. 2. The person youre dating has shown an ability to lie to you. And if they will lie about something small..why wouldnt they lie about the big stuff? Clearly they meant to withhold particular details from you. Thoughts? Edited March 25, 2015 by kaylan
MissBee Posted March 25, 2015 Posted March 25, 2015 It's hard to say without knowing what the specific lie was, as all lies aren't created equally.Lying about small stuff doesn't mean you'll lie about big stuff. Not sure why or how people have come to this facile conclusion. You haven't said what the lie is, but like I said, all lies aren't created equally and just because someone might tell a white lie to spare your feelings for example doesn't mean they will go on to tell huge, consequential lies. But I think you're right that if you have to snoop and your guard is way up that you're probably not ready for a trusting relationship. 1
Wackkkk Posted March 25, 2015 Posted March 25, 2015 Everyone lies. You haven't lied to her about anything to make yourself look better?
Author kaylan Posted March 25, 2015 Author Posted March 25, 2015 Everyone lies. You haven't lied to her about anything to make yourself look better? I make it a point to be very honest when dating someone I really click with. So no, I dont lie to make myself look better. I dont have any shame about my past dating or relationships that would require lying. What bothers me the most is that this girl made it a point to have me believe that shes super blunt and honest..almost to a fault. Heck, we even had a couple uncomfortable moments early on because she lacked tact when it came to being too regarding about things I didnt ask about. 1
wb1988 Posted March 25, 2015 Posted March 25, 2015 It's hard to say without knowing what the specific lie was, as all lies aren't created equally.Lying about small stuff doesn't mean you'll lie about big stuff. Not sure why or how people have come to this facile conclusion. You haven't said what the lie is, but like I said, all lies aren't created equally and just because someone might tell a white lie to spare your feelings for example doesn't mean they will go on to tell huge, consequential lies. But I think you're right that if you have to snoop and your guard is way up that you're probably not ready for a trusting relationship. I totally agree, it all depends. For example I have been to Paris exactly 7 times, but I had to think & remember for a while before I came to the number 7. In real life I probably would have said a different number by forgetting or over-counting a few visits. Actually I probably would have blatantly exaggerated and say "I've been to Paris like 1000 times". Does this all matter? Of course not, unless it's about immigration/visa issues, so wgaf. As long as the person doesn't chronically lie to the point that you have to take everything with a grain of salt, or lies about something that would involve or deceive you then it shouldn't matter.
Author kaylan Posted March 25, 2015 Author Posted March 25, 2015 I totally agree, it all depends. For example I have been to Paris exactly 7 times, but I had to think & remember for a while before I came to the number 7. In real life I probably would have said a different number by forgetting or over-counting a few visits. Actually I probably would have blatantly exaggerated and say "I've been to Paris like 1000 times". Does this all matter? Of course not, unless it's about immigration/visa issues. As long as the person doesn't chronically lie to the point that you have to take everything with a grain of salt, or lies about something that would involve or deceive you then it shouldn't matter.People are missing a key part of my OP. I said the lie was regarding a detail of the person's dating history. And thus its clear this was done in order to mislead opinion on the matter...even if it wasnt the hugest of deals. The lie is whats bad...not really the subject.
wb1988 Posted March 25, 2015 Posted March 25, 2015 People are missing a key part of my OP. I said the lie was regarding a detail of the person's dating history. And thus its clear this was done in order to mislead opinion on the matter...even if it wasnt the hugest of deals. The lie is whats bad...not really the subject. Oh sorry, I missed that part. You only lie about that to deceive, so yes it's a problem. Take everything she/he says regarding their dating past with a grain of salt.
mammasita Posted March 25, 2015 Posted March 25, 2015 I dunno, it really depends. Look at it like this....all (ok most) women lie about their weight. If you really wanted to know the truth you could snoop, ****, most people could tell by simply looking at someone what their weight is or if they're lying....but it's done, a lot. Does that mean a woman that lies about her weight is a serial liar and is capable of bigger lies? Not necessarily. I lie about my shoe size sometimes. I don't know why, Im 5'7" with a size 9 shoe and just like to live in fantasy land sometimes. 1
Wackkkk Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 I make it a point to be very honest when dating someone I really click with. So no, I dont lie to make myself look better. I dont have any shame about my past dating or relationships that would require lying. What bothers me the most is that this girl made it a point to have me believe that shes super blunt and honest..almost to a fault. Heck, we even had a couple uncomfortable moments early on because she lacked tact when it came to being too regarding about things I didnt ask about. Maybe she just doesn't feel comfortable you knowing something's. Judgment ect. She has her reasons and if it's not a big deal let it go.
Author kaylan Posted March 26, 2015 Author Posted March 26, 2015 Maybe she just doesn't feel comfortable you knowing something's. Judgment ect. She has her reasons and if it's not a big deal let it go. Lying is a big deal though. Thats my whole point.
Price2Play Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 Lying is a big deal though. Thats my whole point. It was the raise and fall of my most recent realtionship. White lie or not, trying to protect me from being hurt is bs rationalization for shady behavior. Dating is an audition for marriage and that was what she wanted but she failed the audition. Relationships need strong foundations, not lies and deception. Not only was it a lie but to me it was disrespectful. At the time she knew she really f*cked up. We managed to last maybe 6 more months. In the end I saw her true colors and quiet honestly I feel bad for her but wish her nothing but the best. Toxic relationships sux. Again man it just depends on your circumstances and how much you are willing to put up with. Actions speak louder than words my friend.
Author kaylan Posted March 26, 2015 Author Posted March 26, 2015 It was the raise and fall of my most recent realtionship. White lie or not, trying to protect me from being hurt is bs rationalization for shady behavior. Dating is an audition for marriage and that was what she wanted but she failed the audition. Relationships need strong foundations, not lies and deception. Not only was it a lie but to me it was disrespectful. At the time she knew she really f*cked up. We managed to last maybe 6 more months. In the end I saw her true colors and quiet honestly I feel bad for her but wish her nothing but the best. Toxic relationships sux. Again man it just depends on your circumstances and how much you are willing to put up with. Actions speak louder than words my friend.Well Im not looking for marriage. Im just disappointed is all. Some people have told me Im too picky and overly cautious about commitment. I think I need to be because way too many people cant remain honest. Whats so hard about honesty?
Redhead14 Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 She lied, you snooped. You don't trust her, she can't trust you. Game over. 2
Vintage79 Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 I don't see anything wrong with some little white lies, and moreover, people little white lies are substantially different than big, influential lies. Since you claimed the lies didn't really matter, I wouldn't worry about it. That said, if I found out that someone was snooping on me, I'd dump her. I don't have anything that I'm hiding, but trust is very important part of a relationship. At this point you've said you don't trust her and your actions say she shouldn't trust you - this is a relationship game over. Move on and work on your trust challenges.
Author kaylan Posted March 26, 2015 Author Posted March 26, 2015 I don't see anything wrong with some little white lies, and moreover, people little white lies are substantially different than big, influential lies. Since you claimed the lies didn't really matter, I wouldn't worry about it. That said, if I found out that someone was snooping on me, I'd dump her. I don't have anything that I'm hiding, but trust is very important part of a relationship. At this point you've said you don't trust her and your actions say she shouldn't trust you - this is a relationship game over. Move on and work on your trust challenges. I agree with you about my trust challenges. That said, even if the lie is small, she meant to lie to me and deceive me. Thats still bad. In which case my gut was right to be cautious.
badpenny Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 The question is why? WHY did she lie? Was it to make herself look better in your eys, and that alone? Was she trying to give you information because she feared you'd judge her in a bad light, if you'd known the truth? Perhaps, because you have not yet discussed this with her, you are kind of 'lying by omission'... think of that? Maybe you should come clean, confront her with the information you now know to be true, and give her a chance to explain herself. But she's really damned if she does, and damned if she doesn't though, isn't she? She lied. Her reason, may have been valid and worthy - to her. She may see the sense in lying to you. But now it's out, you know she lied, so it's all a sham, and pointless to maintain the pretense.... so now she has to be honest, which makes her lying seem worse....
Author kaylan Posted March 27, 2015 Author Posted March 27, 2015 (edited) UPDATE: We just finished talking for an hour so I'll answer the questions people have ask. We've been seeing each other about 5 months...no bf/gf tags, but we've been exclusive. Its been a light arrangement thus far, but in the past she has expressed her enjoyment of things and that she sees this being fun throughout the warm months. I ended up snooping her phone after being given her code, and learned she lied about a detail regarding a past hookup. Why did I snoop? I admit I am not quick to trust. And actually, she keeps a menstrual cycle log in her phone and has told me she keeps track of when she has sex (so I was curious to see what notes she made) Shes only been with a few guys with a couple being hookups. She had told me one of these guys was unprotected...but that their first time together used a condom. Mind you that when we met, she volunteered her partner count and the fact that she has had unprotected sex in the past. I didnt outright ask this, and made it a point to avoid asking such things of women I planned to casually day. Shes the kind of girl that over-shares...which is a stark contrast to women who are very secretive about their sex lives. She responded this way after I asked her "is this safe?". Thats how I ask a girl if shes clean, but she added the extra info anyways, without my asking. Now, I dont mind that shes had unprotected sex in the past, though it does bother me a little that she would have unprotected sex with a hookup. What freaking bothers me is that she would lie about them ever using condoms in the first place. Like hell, if youve already told me youve had unprotected sex with someone, why lie and say it didnt start out that way? We open up to each other and have some good convos discussing our pasts, and THATS what you decide to lie about? So silly. Why the need to lie and say the first time was with a condom when I was curious about that? She said she felt a little ashamed...but come on, we've shared other details with each other about our past sex life that had more bearing than lack of condom use with one person. Why lie about that when you already told me he was a guy you had unprotected sex with. Anyways, she seemed legitimately remorseful and wasnt upset about the snooping. And she did want to keep things going, but I told her I needed to think. Yeah we dont have titles...but still this rubs the wrong way. Like hey, now the precedent is set....and I told her that lying about something so small makes me call into question her ability to be honest. Like yo, to lie about something like that, even though small, means she tried to deceive me. And I told myself in the past not to put up with such crap and to have zero tolerance. I dont want to send a message that Im ok with this, especially after letting her know how much I detest dishonesty. Up until now, this was exactly the kind of female relationship I needed. Low maintenance, time to myself when I needed, but also a cool girl to hang out with when I have free time. Bail? What can be done here? Theres not gonna be trust on my side or hers. Edited March 27, 2015 by kaylan
Quiet Storm Posted March 28, 2015 Posted March 28, 2015 I think lying is a big deal. If she is portraying herself as blunt and honest, but lies about something in her past, it means she's phony. She might like to think she's blunt and honest, but in reality she's filtering her truths, which is manipulative, IMO. If she was truly an honest person, and you asked about her past and she didn't want to share, she'd say "its none of your business". Instead of keeping it real, she's trying to shape your opinion of her.
Author kaylan Posted March 28, 2015 Author Posted March 28, 2015 I think lying is a big deal. If she is portraying herself as blunt and honest, but lies about something in her past, it means she's phony. She might like to think she's blunt and honest, but in reality she's filtering her truths, which is manipulative, IMO. If she was truly an honest person, and you asked about her past and she didn't want to share, she'd say "its none of your business". Instead of keeping it real, she's trying to shape your opinion of her. This is what Im thinking. Its so silly even to mislead me into thinking she used condoms one time with someone she already told me she was unprotected with. Like why? It makes no sense and is a pointless lie. And whats annoying is that just a few days ago she said she was watching some reality show on TV that made her glad she was dating a guy as genuine as me. Its part of why I was compelled to keep my honest streak going and open up about what I did and what was bothering me. So do you think I should dump her?
Quiet Storm Posted March 28, 2015 Posted March 28, 2015 This is what Im thinking. Its so silly even to mislead me into thinking she used condoms one time with someone she already told me she was unprotected with. Like why? It makes no sense and is a pointless lie. And whats annoying is that just a few days ago she said she was watching some reality show on TV that made her glad she was dating a guy as genuine as me. Its part of why I was compelled to keep my honest streak going and open up about what I did and what was bothering me. So do you think I should dump her? Yes, because I think trust is important and it's already been broken. You are a smart guy, kaylan, and you will be questioning everything she says from this point forward. I don't see how you couldn't. It's a no win situation now because if she keeps lying, she's not a good match for you. And if she's telling the truth, you won't fully believe it. You'll always be thinking "she's capable of lying to me." She had no reason to lie, since you were accepting of her past. A person who genuinely wanted to be real with you would come out and say "I'm not talking about this" or "I did something I'm not proud of...". I understand the reason for the lie (to make her past more palatable to you), but her decision to lie would make me think, what else will she lie about if she thinks I'll judge her? I'm married and there are unpleasant truths that you have to share sometimes, but that's life. I'm completely real with my husband, flaws and all. Being in an intimate relationship isn't about molding yourself into a version of yourself that's more likable. It's about being real, and accepting each other.
GemmaUK Posted March 28, 2015 Posted March 28, 2015 You do know that condoms are not the be all and end all of protection don't you? As in, not just pregnancy.
todreaminblue Posted March 28, 2015 Posted March 28, 2015 (edited) if the lies were small and of no consequence to the relationship or fledgling dating relationship i would simply say ,thank you for being truthful with me please dont lie again you dont need to and i would ask why the guy needed to lie in the first place....sometimes small lies are said in the moment ...because the truth may be too hard to talk about or too confrontational or too uncomfortable to discuss......which i legitimate a reason.....it needs not to be repeated though to develop trust........and i do have trust issues.....i would explain that i also however admire and respect honesty honesty when it is admitting you were wrong and dealing with mistakes that have been made...shows strength of character in a person and thats what i look for in a date.....strength of character......... everyone makes mistakes and small lies are small mistakes....as i said if it didnt affect the relationship in any way then forgiveness would be in order i feel...most people lie for a reason ....i would explore that reason with them, make the person who lied feel confident with telling me truth in the future.......best wishes...deb Edited March 28, 2015 by todreaminblue
Author kaylan Posted March 28, 2015 Author Posted March 28, 2015 You do know that condoms are not the be all and end all of protection don't you? As in, not just pregnancy. Its about the lie, not about the protection. Why lie about something like that when she already told me they didnt use condoms? Ive had unprotected flings in my stupid youth...so i get it. But I dont lie about it to women I date. Im an open book like that. Ill admit Ive done risky and dumb things. But I wont be silly and admit to unprotected sex, and then lie and say my first time with a particular girl was protected.
ascendotum Posted March 28, 2015 Posted March 28, 2015 So do you think I should dump her? IMO over this, no. Its really your call though as to what you find you can sweep under the rug and just be able to carry on as before. You are not bf/gf and from the sounds of things wanted to keep it that way for another 5-6 mths. If that's the case,then I wouldn't worry about it and let it effect an otherwise enjoyable casual relationship. If you are going to have the urge to keep double checking things on her or its going to effect your level of passion/fun for her well then you might as well call it quits. As you have seen on threads on LS, many women are going to avoid talk of their past sex life outright or shame you for asking, or are happy to lie on the principle that its does not define them or is irrelevant to the relationship, so other women in your future wont get tripped up on this, like your open book fwb lady. I know quite a few people will consider that there is less onus to be fully honest in a casual relationship than there is for a serious 'I want a long term future' relationship. Also I might have missed it but I didn't see where she gave you a legit reason to snoop through her phone. With no good reason and in a casual relationship I think she she deserved to be annoyed you were rummaging for info imo.
Maleficent Posted March 28, 2015 Posted March 28, 2015 OP I really feel like you are just looking for us to tell you you should dump her over this. You are either not interested in her or not ready to get involved - it almost looks like you went looking for a reason to end things. You didn't look at her phone without her permission out of curiosity. So just dump her already.
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