Sex first

March 22, 2015

MGTOW? What's that?

The "Men Going Their Own Way" movement.

March 22, 2015

..........but, No, we do not want the Grey character. Do you remember (other than what a poorly written, cheesy book it was) that he was also "50 shades of f**ked up?" No, we don't want a f**ked up man.

10char. Sure.

March 22, 2015

The "Men Going Their Own Way" movement.

I see. Thanks. Sorta like male feminists I suppose.

Well, there are women who are great wives and mothers. Not denying that. My father is a great husband. My mother was pretty so she didn't really have to bring much to the table. I do know of married couples who are happy. usually they are my father's age or older. My generation, naw. I'm good. I know guys who ended up in jail because they couldn't pay child-support or alimony.

I know guys who've been cheated on and on. I've even met guys who could seriously contend for the title of Hollywood's best-looking guy and they've been dumped, used and cheated on by women in their own league or even below their league.

I also know women who are great and get cheated on. I did meet one woman when I was 26 and man, she was amazing. 5'7'' a natural blonde, German, blue eyes, great body and face and from what her husband told me she was great in everything. Sadly there are very few women like that(men too) and they're usually spirited away by smart men when they are still in high school. There's nothing much to do but to have fun and to continue watching guys and women be unhappy together - by pursuing that sweet, sweet ideal of love.

I'd rather have a steak on my right hand a beer on my left than buying on what might be but very few ever get.

Honestly, even if there was a great woman out there for me I don't think I'd be that interested. Life is much simpler when you have your basic needs met, you got enough money to pay your bills, you got your friends to hang-out with(and if they get girlfriends there's always my dog or something) and there's easy sex to be had on tinder. Life is great.

Edited March 22, 2015 by Argos

March 22, 2015

I see. Thanks. Sorta like male feminists I suppose.

Well, there are women who are great wives and mothers. Not denying that. My father is a great husband. My mother was pretty so she didn't really have to bring much to the table. I do know of married couples who are happy. usually they are my father's age or older. My generation, naw. I'm good. I know guys who ended up in jail because they couldn't pay child-support or alimony.

I know guys who've been cheated on and on. I've even met guys who could seriously contend for the title of Hollywood's best-looking guy and they've been dumped, used and cheated on by women in their own league or even below their league.

I also know women who are great and get cheated on. I did meet one woman when I was 26 and man, she was amazing. 5'7'' a natural blonde, German, blue eyes, great body and face and from what her husband told me she was great in everything. Sadly there are very few women like that(men too) and they're usually spirited away by smart men when they are still in high school. There's nothing much to do but to have fun and to continue watching guys and women be unhappy together - by pursuing that sweet, sweet ideal of love.

I'd rather have a steak on my right hand a beer on my left than buying on what might be but very few ever get.

Honestly, even if there was a great woman out there for me I don't think I'd be that interested. Life is much simpler when you have your basic needs met, you got enough money to pay your bills, you got your friends to hang-out with(and if they get girlfriends there's always my dog or something) and there's easy sex to be had on tinder. Life is great.

Not an insult to you, but you are the perfect candidate for MGTOW. What you posted above^^ is pretty darn close (if not identical) to what they believe also...

I am sorry it's come to this point for you and so many other men... not sure what happened.

Kind of sad...but if you're happy living this way, that's all that matters I guess.

March 22, 2015

Very well put Dreamingoftigers post #52.

The hate-mongering does limit men on realizing the reality of most women. In my experience, the number of bitter men just grows and grows, while I am still the same generous woman I have always been.

March 22, 2015

The "Men Going Their Own Way" movement.

Going their own way, by themselves, completely cut off from all of these women that fall all over them trying to pry that last $23 they have left over from their paychecks to get lunch at McDonald's.

"Why can't these hoes all just back off?"

March 22, 2015

10char. Sure.

*Laughs*

I started reading that book to find out what the fuss was about.

GROSS. All I can say. I couldn't even finish it. Not even sure I was halfway through.

Not the sex per se. That I reserve judgment on.

I found Christian Grey to be a needy, stalkerish, kind-of-whiner.

He just seemed so passive-aggressive. Real turn-off.

And really, Anastasia needed to be "rescued" from her "friend" that she was not really friends with or blar de blar. Ugh.

Just say, "I am not into you, back it off."

Not wait for the real crazy, stalker, abuser to tell the other stalker, crazy to go away. Really?

And the whole, "we had a Prada this or helicopter that" Ugh. Like that makes him special? Sure the stuff is neat. But if he doesn't even have a personality that you can stand having breakfast with, what is the point? He was just GROSS. And it was all about him.

March 22, 2015

I've spoken to many men on pof. Most of them have only wanted sex. Some of them however have said they want to sleep with me first and then see how things go. What the hell does that mean? Sounds like they are just trying to get into my pants and then disappear. Am I correct? What do you think it means when men say they want to sleep with you first and then see how things go?

It is a signal to you that they simply don't have any depth with/by which they would care to invest themselves in you beforehand, in order so that theeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeey (too) would get the most out of any sex you ever share.

So the real question is: "why are you even pausing at the ones who make it clear that they lack the important traits needed for giving a fair go to a true relationship??"

March 22, 2015

There have always been men who are bitter, entitled, socially inadequate, misogynist, "difficult", miserly, miserable, hurt, unstable, abusive or downright dangerous men who have ended up as bachelors. Going through life, hating and despising the women they failed to attract or to keep.

Now it seems to me they gang up together on forums and the like, and post videos on Youtube.

They have persuaded some other impressionable men, often men with no real life experience of women, to think in the same way.

It is very sad.

March 22, 2015

There have always been men who are bitter, entitled, socially inadequate, misogynist, "difficult", miserly, miserable, hurt, unstable, abusive or downright dangerous men who have ended up as bachelors. Going through life, hating and despising the women they failed to attract or to keep.

Now it seems to me they gang up together on forums and the like, and post videos on Youtube.
They have persuaded some other impressionable men, often men with no real life experience of women, to think in the same way.
It is very sad.

I agree that there are men who hate women. Haven't seen one on this thread tho. I wonder what early 20's women say when they aren't approached by men, or the men they want aren't interested in dating them. Something something addicted to pokemon or something. I am very, very sad in my bachelor pad with my mac computer and the $$$ I got stacked-up because I don't date. Same goes for all the lonely, lonely men who aren't paying child-support nor alimony. And don't get me started on how unhappy the men I know who aren't dating at all are. Imagine that. They could be spending money and time on women and going home empty-handed. Excuse me while I grab a pack of kleenex to wipe away my pain.

Oh, and don't forget to say that those guys are also short and have small genitalia. For proper social shaming to be effective.

Edited March 22, 2015 by Argos

March 22, 2015

I agree that there are men who hate women. Haven't seen one on this thread tho. I wonder what early 20's women say when they aren't approached by men, or the men they want aren't interested in dating them. Something something addicted to pokemon or something. I am very, very sad in my bachelor pad with my mac computer and the $$$ I got stacked-up because I don't date. Same goes for all the lonely, lonely men who aren't paying child-support nor alimony. And don't get me started on how unhappy the men I know who aren't dating at all are. Imagine that. They could be spending money and time on women and going home empty-handed. Excuse me while I grab a pack of kleenex to wipe away my pain.

Oh, and don't forget to say that those guys are also short and have small genitalia. For proper social shaming to be effective.

Those are your words, not hers. If she'd wanted to say them, I'm sure she would have.

March 22, 2015

Those are your words, not hers. If she'd wanted to say them, I'm sure she would have.

Oh, she made her feelings pretty clear about what she thinks of guys who want sex but dont' want all of the drama + obligations that women of a certain age attach to sex. The respect she has for men is also very apparent. I'm sure the guy who is in her life is pretty lucky and enjoys having such a level-headed lady who doesn't insult anyone because she respects people with different points of view too much. I admire her kindness too.

March 22, 2015

Oh, she made her feelings pretty clear about what she thinks of guys who want sex but dont' want all of the drama + obligations that women of a certain age attach to sex. The respect she has for men is also very apparent. I'm sure the guy who is in her life is pretty lucky and enjoys having such a level-headed lady who doesn't insult anyone because she respects people with different points of view too much. I admire her kindness too.

Well, those kind of guys can want it without the responsibility and drama all they want, but you don't get that bitter unless you're wanting it and not getting it, so I can only assume this isn't working out for them. Sometimes you have to play the cards you're dealt. No woman wants to be with a guy who has so little respect for other human beings as to use them like a kleenex.

March 22, 2015

I've spoken to many men on pof. Most of them have only wanted sex. Some of them however have said they want to sleep with me first and then see how things go. What the hell does that mean? Sounds like they are just trying to get into my pants and then disappear. Am I correct? What do you think it means when men say they want to sleep with you first and then see how things go?

To me, it means they’ll have sex with pretty much anyone who says yes, so I don’t want to date them.

March 22, 2015

There have always been men who are bitter, entitled, socially inadequate, misogynist, "difficult", miserly, miserable, hurt, unstable, abusive or downright dangerous men who have ended up as bachelors. Going through life, hating and despising the women they failed to attract or to keep.

Now it seems to me they gang up together on forums and the like, and post videos on Youtube.
They have persuaded some other impressionable men, often men with no real life experience of women, to think in the same way.
It is very sad.

Yes very sad indeed.

March 22, 2015

Well, those kind of guys can want it without the responsibility and drama all they want, but you don't get that bitter unless you're wanting it and not getting it, so I can only assume this isn't working out for them. Sometimes you have to play the cards you're dealt. No woman wants to be with a guy who has so little respect for other human beings as to use them like a kleenex.

I find it cute how people say a guy is bitter for not wanting a relationship. Are women bitter when they choose to have sex with random guys during spring break? Are women bitter when they choose to divorce? Are women bitter when they reject men they aren't attracted to?

Why is a man bitter when he doesn't want to owe anything to anyone? Sex is enjoyable. Its fun. Its a great stress-reliever. And its great to know you are attractive enough for women to put out for free.

Being a boyfriend. Being a husband. That is no compliment. Too many women marry/date the men who'll take them, not the men they want, and I've met many women who've been in relationships with decent guys but who cheated with my friends and if I was good-looking enough for them: with me.

Well, men don't want to be taken to the cleaners. Men don't want to be cheated on and men don't want to be traded-up/used for validation and yet it happens everyday to millions of men. What women want is great. For them. What these guys who want sex want is also awesome. For them.

Virginity is not the norm anymore. In the western world women aren't given value based on how many guys they've slept with or haven't slept with. Therefore a woman is not used when the guy ''only'' wants sex. That's like saying I only want to ''use'' the bus driver to get somewhere. The bus driver is getting paid to take me somewhere. The women who have sex with men are already getting something in return for the sex they're having.

Sex.

These guys aren't broken. Talk to any woman in her 20's who uses tinder. Do you honestly believe any of the women is going to say that the men who are looking for sex are interested in using them, that these guys are broken and that they have emotional issues and can't connect with women? No. Why? because at that age women are looking to get laid too. But that perfect life stage of expecting nothing in return for the pleasure of sex doesn't last long, which means that a transformation occurs. The charming 22 year old woman who wanted to hook-up with some random dude because he made her laugh is now the 30-something woman who wants to get married and to have children and can't find a guy to risk his everything for her to gain all that she wants, and thus he's a man-child who uses and abuses people.

All very funny.

Edited March 22, 2015 by Argos

March 22, 2015

I find it cute how people say a guy is bitter for not wanting a relationship. Are women bitter when they choose to have sex with random guys during spring break? Are women bitter when they choose to divorce? Are women bitter when they reject men they aren't attracted to?

Why is a man bitter when he doesn't want to owe anything to anyone? Sex is enjoyable. Its fun. Its a great stress-reliever. And its great to know you are attractive enough for women to put out for free.

Being a boyfriend. Being a husband. That is no compliment. Too many women marry/date the men who'll take them, not the men they want, and I've met many women who've been in relationships with decent guys but who cheated with my friends and if I was good-looking enough for them: with me.

Well, men don't want to be taken to the cleaners. Men don't want to be cheated on and men don't want to be traded-up/used for validation and yet it happens everyday to millions of men. What women want is great. For them. What these guys who want sex want is also awesome. For them.

Virginity is not the norm anymore. In the western world women aren't given value based on how many guys they've slept with or haven't slept with. Therefore a woman is not used when the guy ''only'' wants sex. That's like saying I only want to ''use'' the bus driver to get somewhere. The bus driver is getting paid to take me somewhere. The women who have sex with men are already getting something in return for the sex they're having.

Sex.

These guys aren't broken. Talk to any woman in her 20's who uses tinder. Do you honestly believe any of the women is going to say that the men who are looking for sex are interested in using them, that these guys are broken and that they have emotional issues and can't connect with women? No. Why? because at that age women are looking to get laid too. But that perfect life stage of expecting nothing in return for the pleasure of sex doesn't last long, which means that a transformation occurs. The charming 22 year old woman who wanted to hook-up with some random dude because he made her laugh is now the 30-something woman who wants to get married and to have children and can't find a guy to risk his everything for her to gain all that she wants, and thus he's a man-child who uses and abuses people.

All very funny.

This just seems very extremism.

There is a WHOLE lot more life going on in-between the swings.

March 22, 2015

^ I think you completely missed my point. I'm saying if you're that bitter and hate women that much, you're probably NOT having sex much or you couldn't be that bitter. I have no problem with two consenting adults who both know it's "just sex" having sex. I have a problem with guys who get so ruthless to have sex they'll lie or say absolutely anything to get it because they think them having sex is the most important thing in the universe. I think anyone with as extreme an attitude as a couple expressed in this thread are transparent to women and aren't doing at all well in that regard, because no woman would stay with them once they got to know how they really felt about them, which is zero.

Edited March 22, 2015 by preraph

March 22, 2015

^ I think you completely missed my point. I'm saying if you're that bitter and hate women that much, you're probably NOT having sex much or you couldn't be that bitter. I have no problem with two consenting adults who both know it's "just sex" having sex. I have a problem with guys who get so ruthless to have sex they'll lie or say absolutely anything to get it because they think them having sex is the most important thing in the universe. I think anyone with as extreme an attitude as a couple expressed in this thread are transparent to women and aren't doing at all well in that regard, because no woman would stay with them once they got to know how they really felt about them, which is zero.

No one hates women here. No one is here typing an essay against women. No one is telling anyone to use women. These guys the OP is complaining about have stated beforehand that they want sex. That's called honesty. You and another poster began calling these guys ''women-haters'' and now they're somehow unable to get laid, and that's why they ''hate'' women.

Don't go that way. The ability to get laid does not make the man a great admirer of women. Lord Byron got laid like it was going out of style and he didn't think much of women, same goes for Casanova. We also have the men who didn't get laid much if at all like John Keats and Shakespeare and they adored women(yes, I know many people think the great Bard was gay).

Dude, why would the guy who wants sex care if women don't want to stay with them after knowing how they think about sex? Sex is not a magical act. Well, it might be for those who are in their 20s and havent' gotten laid yet, but as a man matures he begins to realize that sex is not worth all the drama and problems and obligations that are attached to a woman when you enter a romantic relationship with her.

if it troubles you all so much to learn that men want sex without any strings attached.. well.. legalize prostitution. Things are going great in Germany. Well, if you don't take into account the woes of young german women who complain men don't want to marry them and that they don't want to have children. But that's a different matter!

March 22, 2015

*Laughs*

I started reading that book to find out what the fuss was about.

GROSS. All I can say. I couldn't even finish it. Not even sure I was halfway through.

Not the sex per se. That I reserve judgment on.

I found Christian Grey to be a needy, stalkerish, kind-of-whiner.

He just seemed so passive-aggressive. Real turn-off.

And really, Anastasia needed to be "rescued" from her "friend" that she was not really friends with or blar de blar. Ugh.

Just say, "I am not into you, back it off."

Not wait for the real crazy, stalker, abuser to tell the other stalker, crazy to go away. Really?

And the whole, "we had a Prada this or helicopter that" Ugh. Like that makes him special? Sure the stuff is neat. But if he doesn't even have a personality that you can stand having breakfast with, what is the point? He was just GROSS. And it was all about him.

At the female comments here.

Fifty shades opened in the U.S. making 97.4 million in its first weekend, one of the fastest opening films of all time. The book has sold over 100 million copies.

The story? Strong, confident, handsome, wealthy and dominant man has a younger, feminine, woman submit to him, to which she absolutely loves.

So you're telling me that this isn't a fantasy women subscribe to? I think the facts and figures speak for themselves.

March 22, 2015

At the female comments here.

Fifty shades opened in the U.S. making 97.4 million in its first weekend, one of the fastest opening films of all time. The book has sold over 100 million copies.

The story? Strong, confident, handsome, wealthy and dominant man has a younger, feminine, woman submit to him, to which she absolutely loves.

So you're telling me that this isn't a fantasy women subscribe to? I think the facts and figures speak for themselves.

I *really* understand what you are saying with this!

But seriously, the interest is simply entertainment. I read the book and was un-impressed on several levels. Did not see the movie, but I would if it came up in context, out of curiosity because I have heard that Dakota Johnson is a good actor.

The movie, and the book is still NOT REALITY. Its entertainment.

For example, if you watched Chris Hemsworth in Thor, (or whatever action movie you resonate with, ) does that mean that you actively want to cross time barriers and throw hammers and be socked into the earth and steel? Or is that just ENTERTAINMENT? Something to think about when You are bored or want to be transported from what may be boring or un-inspiring at the moment?

March 22, 2015

At the female comments here.

Fifty shades opened in the U.S. making 97.4 million in its first weekend, one of the fastest opening films of all time. The book has sold over 100 million copies.

The story? Strong, confident, handsome, wealthy and dominant man has a younger, feminine, woman submit to him, to which she absolutely loves.

So you're telling me that this isn't a fantasy women subscribe to? I think the facts and figures speak for themselves.

I didn't watch film, but I read the book, and it was clear that she FINALLY!!! (entertainment) figured him out at the end and walked away.

Thus, the movie was entertainment for entertainments sake and women get the fact that they would ever actually want this in reality.

March 22, 2015

Going their own way, by themselves, completely cut off from all of these women that fall all over them trying to pry that last $23 they have left over from their paychecks to get lunch at McDonald's.

"Why can't these hoes all just back off?"

So very sad. Stomping on their own toes. It is sad for them and (obviously) for the women involved.

IT COULD BE SO MUCH BETTER WITH UNDERSTANDING.

March 22, 2015

So very sad. Stomping on their own toes. It is sad for them and (obviously) for the women involved.

IT COULD BE SO MUCH BETTER WITH UNDERSTANDING.

Very sad indeed. I don't understand how there are men who go their entire lives as bachelors, living as productive members of society, not bothering anyone and not doing what society wants them to do. How can they stand not having someone nagging them and bothering them?!

I know a guy who is in his seventies, he's a former navy seal. Dude works as a carpenter to pass the time. He meets so many attractive women in their 30s, 40s and 50s.

He even has attractive twenty-something women into him. By being into him I mean they have sex with him without the guy having to pay anything in return. He lives in a small house he doesn't pay rent for because it was inherited and he doesn't have all that many expenses. Truth be told the guy was payed a full-trip to Brazil and he stayed there with his current hook-up, a very cute 35 year old doctor who payed everything.

I don't know how this guy can look at the mirror and not commit suicide over how sad his life is.

Going their own way, by themselves, completely cut off from all of these women that fall all over them trying to pry that last $23 they have left over from their paychecks to get lunch at McDonald's.

"Why can't these hoes all just back off?"

Totally. These guys have it so wrong, they are victims of their own fears of being intimate with women and they also hate women. That's why they are on this thread saying how women hate men and that women are afraid of putting out because they are waiting for Prince William to ask them to marry them.

Frankly, how do lifelong bachelors survive on their own without the brimming joy of having these charming ladies in their lives. Every man should be insulted -er I mean shamed - as if they were 5 years old!

March 22, 2015

I *really* understand what you are saying with this!

But seriously, the interest is simply entertainment. I read the book and was un-impressed on several levels. Did not see the movie, but I would if it came up in context, out of curiosity because I have heard that Dakota Johnson is a good actor.

The movie, and the book is still NOT REALITY. Its entertainment.

For example, if you watched Chris Hemsworth in Thor, (or whatever action movie you resonate with, ) does that mean that you actively want to cross time barriers and throw hammers and be socked into the earth and steel? Or is that just ENTERTAINMENT? Something to think about when You are bored or want to be transported from what may be boring or un-inspiring at the moment?

I think it's fairly absurd to draw comparisons with a fantasy film which has absolutely no basis in reality, or never could do, simply because it would be, quite literally, impossible.

The fifty shades author captured the real, feral nature of women perfectly. It's the mindset- everyone woman wants to submit to a strong, dominant alpha man. It's arousing for them. It's sexy. When the 'gurrrrlllls' are off to watch fifty shades and then return home to nice, safe Bob-the-beta-accountant, they imagine Dorian Gray ****ing them when having sex with faithful hubby.

Women want equality, the same power as men, but when they get it and the gender roles becomes reversed (which is becoming more and more apparent everyday, especially in London), they become repulsed by men. They want all the attributes, strengths, rights etc that men have, so it's all equal, yet still want a man to 'be a man'. The idea is totally flawed. The reason why the older generation have had much longer lasting relationships is because traditional gender roles were valued, which meant the men and women in relationships were happy. Today, there are lots of single unhappy women because they thought they 'could have it all' and when they did, realised that it didn't make them happy after all.

Men want sex because that's what they need. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. Women should stop flaming and shaming men for acting on what is innately within them- quite literally what we are biologically evolved to do.

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