Gary S Posted March 20, 2015 Posted March 20, 2015 If the woman will submit to the man like they say in the bible, there's no problem.
Redhead14 Posted March 20, 2015 Posted March 20, 2015 (edited) If the woman will submit to the man like they say in the bible, there's no problem. LOL! Really? Submission as written in the bible is not about a woman doing things she doesn't want to do. It's about the fact that she whole-heartedly and unconditionally loves her husband and wants to and is willing to do the things he wants her to do. By the same token, the husband loves his wife whole-heartedly and unconditionally and does not to ask her to do things he knows she really doesn't want to do. Mutual respect, trust and communication are the foundation of a quality relationship. Edited March 20, 2015 by Redhead14
Redhead14 Posted March 20, 2015 Posted March 20, 2015 By the way, submissiveness in the manner in which you are using it above, is proscribed (condemned) in the bible as abusiveness
Gary S Posted March 20, 2015 Posted March 20, 2015 Well redheaded step child (I'm just being silly!), we will probably have to agree to disagree here. I still maintain that lack of intimacy would be a problem, but who initiates is not. Affection is mandatory for a happy, healthy relationship. We have that here. Who cares who goes first? - they both benefit, regardless of who initiates. You could claim that initiating takes work. But the payoff, love, is a much higher return, so this is a non-issue. Besides, the one who initiates gets a benefit - a feeling of power. 1
losangelena Posted March 20, 2015 Posted March 20, 2015 A guy you have gone out with for 5 weeks is psycho-analyzing your lack of physical affection and intimacy? How do the kids do these days?: #redflag That's what I thought, too! OP, is this guy really pyschoanalyzing you like that? I think I'd be telling a guy like that to bugger off. 2
Redhead14 Posted March 20, 2015 Posted March 20, 2015 Well redheaded step child (I'm just being silly!), we will probably have to agree to disagree here. I still maintain that lack of intimacy would be a problem, but who initiates is not. Affection is mandatory for a happy, healthy relationship. We have that here. Who cares who goes first? - they both benefit, regardless of who initiates. You could claim that initiating takes work. But the payoff, love, is a much higher return, so this is a non-issue. Besides, the one who initiates gets a benefit - a feeling of power.[/quote I agree that lack of intimacy would/could be a problem. But if one of them is uncomfortable about it, the other one has to be patient at least. It's ok, if they initiate it, just don't overwhelm the other one. Do it in little bits until the other one becomes comfortable with it. And if the initiator is feeling a sense of power instead of the satisfaction in knowing that their partner is comfortable with them and wants to be more affectionate, then their motives maybe a little skewed. No one should feel or need to have power over anyone. If you have to be in power or in control, there's another issue to be dealt with.
Gary S Posted March 20, 2015 Posted March 20, 2015 Sure, redhead, we don't want any control freaks, I agree with you there. I do not mean it should be solely about power. I just maintain that the guy complaining that he has to do all the initiating, is the one with the problem, not her. He's acting needy, and quite frankly, he's nagging, and it's a turnoff. He's what we call high maintenance. These types of people make for poor relationship material. I don't ever like to tell people to drop someone, I think that should be a personal decision. But if I were her, knowing what I know? - I'd drop him like a hot potato, he's cuckoo for cocoa puffs. 1
Redhead14 Posted March 20, 2015 Posted March 20, 2015 (edited) Sure, redhead, we don't want any control freaks, I agree with you there. I do not mean it should be solely about power. I just maintain that the guy complaining that he has to do all the initiating, is the one with the problem, not her. He's acting needy, and quite frankly, he's nagging, and it's a turnoff. He's what we call high maintenance. These types of people make for poor relationship material. I don't ever like to tell people to drop someone, I think that should be a personal decision. But if I were her, knowing what I know? - I'd drop him like a hot potato, he's cuckoo for cocoa puffs. Yep, you're right, he's basically given her an ultimatum after only 5 weeks. I said it above. I don't like that he did that either and I'd be at least wary of him. It's not about the fact that that's what he likes or wants, it about the fact that he's using an ultimatum in order to control her and get what he wants, rather than making her comfortable with it. That's a queue to take serious note of. What he should have done was, let her know his likes and dislikes in casual way and let her tell him whether or not she's comfortable with that in general and whether she was willing to make an effort. If she told him she doesn't like that kind of thing and doesn't want to make an effort, then he should just tell her the two of them are not a good match and move on. Most importantly, she's feeling uncomfortable and being pressured by an ultimatum . . . SHE should tell him she's moving on. Edited March 20, 2015 by Redhead14 2
katiegrl Posted March 20, 2015 Posted March 20, 2015 Gary, I am not getting why exactly you think he's a "pansey." Because he wants the woman he's been dating for 5 weeks to show him (via physical affection) that she's into him??? Without HIM having to initiate first? I think that's a perfectly normal and healthy thing for him to want. I mean hell, when I'm really into a guy and we've been dating for awhile, I am pretty much "all over him"! Privately of course and they LOVE that. The most confident, self-assured and even dominant men love that! They need that! And I don't mean sex necessarily, I mean touching him, kissing him, etc. We BOTH initiate. I dunno perhaps I haven't interpreted your posts correctly. Cause frankly imo your thinking that he's a pansey for needing the woman he's been dating and obviously attracted to to initiate some physical affection to show HIM that SHE is into him too..is a little off. Put yourself in his shoes. If your chick just sat there showing no physical affection towards you unless you initiated first, you'd be okay with that? Ugh, my very masculine, rugged and self-confident boyfriend sure wouldn't be!! And to the OP, you have been dating him for five weeks. How many times a week do you see each other? Once, twice, three times a week? How emotionally close do you feel with him? And him to you? Your answer to these questions would determine IMO anyway whether he is expecting too much, or not. 2
Gary S Posted March 20, 2015 Posted March 20, 2015 (edited) redhead, yup, control freak is a deal breaker. They are one of the most problematic personalities in dating and relationships today. I did not pin him down as such, but you could be right. He could also have some mental problem, who knows? All I know is, there could be any one of a hundred reasons for what he is doing. But the bottom line is, he's wrong. At the end of the day, as far as she's concerned, the reason is unimportant. And I'll tell you something else - if he's pulling this nonsense at only five weeks, imagine what life would be like living with Mr. Drill Sargent if she was married to him for five years?! Like Jim Carrey in the mask said, "Spooky!" Edited March 20, 2015 by Gary S
Redhead14 Posted March 20, 2015 Posted March 20, 2015 Gary, I am not getting why exactly you think he's a "pansey." Because he wants the woman he's been dating for 5 weeks to show him (via physical affection) that she's into him??? Without HIM having to initiate first? I think that's a perfectly normal and healthy thing for him to want. I mean hell, when I'm really into a guy and we've been dating for awhile, I am pretty much "all over him"! Privately of course and they LOVE that. The most confident, self-assured and even dominant men love that! They need that! And I don't mean sex necessarily, I mean touching him, kissing him, etc. We BOTH initiate. I dunno perhaps I haven't interpreted your posts correctly. Cause frankly imo your thinking that he's a pansey for needing the woman he's been dating and obviously attracted to to initiate some physical affection to show HIM that SHE is into him too..is a little off. Put yourself in his shoes. If your chick just sat there showing no physical affection towards you unless you initiated first, you'd be okay with that? Ugh, my very masculine, rugged and self-confident boyfriend sure wouldn't be!! And to the OP, you have been dating him for five weeks. How many times a week do you see each other? Once, twice, three times a week? How emotionally close do you feel with him? And him to you? Your answer to these questions would determine IMO anyway whether he is expecting too much, or not. Katie, the crux of this one is not that he wants and like that, it's about the fact that he is giving her an ultimatum. He wants her to do it in order for him to commit to her. That is trying to control her. He can and should let her know what his likes/wants and needs are in a relationship, but he needs to do it casually and respectfully and be able to accept that she doesn't want that or isn't willing to do it, in which, case, he should simply tell her they aren't a good match.
katiegrl Posted March 20, 2015 Posted March 20, 2015 Redhead, I don't believe in ultimatums ... but if he is big on physical touch, which it sounds like he is, and he needs that from the woman in his life, and she is NOT, which it sounds like she isn't, isn't it best for him to move on? The ultimatum is his way of letting her know that, right? I mean what's the point of staying in a situation that isn't satisfying and frustrates you? Instead of just bailing, he is communicating that to her. Isn't that what you always advocate? Communication? What am I missing? 1
BluEyeL Posted March 20, 2015 Posted March 20, 2015 Sure, redhead, we don't want any control freaks, I agree with you there. I do not mean it should be solely about power. I just maintain that the guy complaining that he has to do all the initiating, is the one with the problem, not her. He's acting needy, and quite frankly, he's nagging, and it's a turnoff. He's what we call high maintenance. These types of people make for poor relationship material. I don't ever like to tell people to drop someone, I think that should be a personal decision. But if I were her, knowing what I know? - I'd drop him like a hot potato, he's cuckoo for cocoa puffs. I'd drop this guy too. I hate people who are complaining from the get go. It's only going to get worse. You either accept the other person the way they are, or move on because nobody truly changes. I for one, don't initiate a lot of physical affection within 5 weeks and I didn't have issues with most normal men.
katiegrl Posted March 20, 2015 Posted March 20, 2015 Katie, the crux of this one is not that he wants and like that, it's about the fact that he is giving her an ultimatum. He wants her to do it in order for him to commit to her. That is trying to control her. He can and should let her know what his likes/wants and needs are in a relationship, but he needs to do it casually and respectfully and be able to accept that she doesn't want that or isn't willing to do it, in which, case, he should simply tell her they aren't a good match. ^^Okay thanks, this makes sense. And IF that's what he's doing, then I agree with you.
preraph Posted March 20, 2015 Posted March 20, 2015 Not all guys are so much like that. It sounds like he's wanting the type of girl who hangs all over him, and there's plenty of those out there. He may not be the right guy for you because you aren't like that. But not all guys expect that or even want women hanging onto them like teenagers. 3
katiegrl Posted March 20, 2015 Posted March 20, 2015 ^^Okay thanks, this makes sense. And IF that's what he's doing, then I agree with you. ^^To add -- but Gary thinks he's a pansey for simply needing that...which I still think is a little off... and very Neanderthal-like.
katiegrl Posted March 20, 2015 Posted March 20, 2015 Not all guys are so much like that. It sounds like he's wanting the type of girl who hangs all over him, and there's plenty of those out there. He may not be the right guy for you because you aren't like that. But not all guys expect that or even want women hanging onto them like teenagers. Oh geez....exaggerate much?
Satu Posted March 20, 2015 Posted March 20, 2015 Maybe he has a touch of narcissism, and requires people to treat him in a way that reflects his high opinion of himself. Maybe.
Redhead14 Posted March 20, 2015 Posted March 20, 2015 Redhead, I don't believe in ultimatums ... but if he is big on physical touch, which it sounds like he is, and he needs that from the woman in his life, and she is NOT, which it sounds like she isn't, isn't it best for him to move on? The ultimatum is his way of letting her know that, right? I mean what's the point of staying in a situation that isn't satisfying and frustrates you? Instead of just bailing, he is communicating that to her. Isn't that what you always advocate? Communication? What am I missing? Yep, that's what I said, he should just move on. An ultimatum is about controlling a situation. As I said, he should communicate with her in a casual way to let her know what he likes and needs in a relationship in a statement like "you know I like a little PDA or other signs of affection from a woman, is that something you are comfortable with or willing to work on? Or, I'm sensing that you are uncomfortable with PDA, is that something we can work together on?. If she says no, he simply tells her they aren't a good match. Not say, "I'm going to dump you if you don't become more affectionate". What's going to happen down the road when he wants or needs something else she doesn't want to or like to do? Oh, if you don't do that, I'm going to leave you with the 3 kids? How would you respond to an ultimatum? You'd cringe at least, I'd bet. 1
katiegrl Posted March 20, 2015 Posted March 20, 2015 Not all guys are so much like that. It sounds like he's wanting the type of girl who hangs all over him, and there's plenty of those out there. He may not be the right guy for you because you aren't like that. But not all guys expect that or even want women hanging onto them like teenagers. OH geez...hanging onto them like teenagers? Exaggerate much?
elaine567 Posted March 20, 2015 Posted March 20, 2015 I think communication is key and if he feels that the OP is not initiating enough physical contact then he is within his rights to mention that. Better discussing why he feels committing for him is going to be difficult, rather than just dumping her. All she needs to do is hold his hand or touch him or show him some interest, he is not asking for the world here. Being with someone who never initiates anything I guess would be a deal breaker for most. I do not think many apart from control freaks maybe or people with little respect for themselves perhaps, would be happy always initiating, always having to put the effort in. At least he is voicing his concerns. 4
katiegrl Posted March 20, 2015 Posted March 20, 2015 I think communication is key and if he feels that the OP is not initiating enough physical contact then he is within his rights to mention that. Better discussing why he feels committing for him is going to be difficult, rather than just dumping her. All she needs to do is hold his hand or touch him or show him some interest, he is not asking for the world here. Being with someone who never initiates anything I guess would be a deal breaker for most. I do not think many apart from control freaks maybe or people with little respect for themselves perhaps, would be happy always initiating, always having to put the effort in. At least he is voicing his concerns. ^^thank you elaine .... my sentiments exactly. Although if he is, in fact, being a controlling asshat about it, that's different. But do we know for sure that he is? I'd be interested in hearing HIS side of things.
Redhead14 Posted March 20, 2015 Posted March 20, 2015 ^^thank you elaine .... my sentiments exactly. Although if he is, in fact, being a controlling asshat about it, that's different. But do we know for sure that he is? I'd be interested in hearing HIS side of things. Katie, we rarely if ever, hear the other side in these posts and so we can only comment on what we read. And, yes, I'd love to hear the other side most of the time But, I'll say this, most of the time, people post here because they are being made to feel a certain way about someone or something that person has done, and so it's really just about helping them deal with what's on their own plate and in a way that is mature, reasonable and all about them and their feelings. I'd say that the standing caveat to the people who ask us for advice is that, since we don't know both sides of a story, the truth is usually somewhere in the middle and that that person who is posting will be able to use the advice and weigh it against their gut based on what they know about the other person, and in the end will do what works best for them. (And, not blame us if it doesn't go the way they hoped 1
Gary S Posted March 20, 2015 Posted March 20, 2015 (edited) katie, you know I love you. Let me tell you what's bad: - lack of affection and sex in a relationship (the op's relationship is new, sex does not need to be on the table yet) - there are plenty of relationships and marriages out there where one or both partners has fallen out of love and does not want to be touched! - When a guy goes for a kiss early in dating and the woman turns her head and he gets a mouthful of hair, the ole' hairball trick, it's not a match. - When a woman in a relationship does not want to have sex with her partner. You mean she can't even roll over for him?!!!!!!!! I mean really?! Seriously?! Heck, she could even watch TV while he takes care of business! Ask your unhappily married friends. - Some women like PDA, some don't. So what? - a man who is a good catch is flexible and gives the woman what she needs. Men don't need affection as much as women do. Obviously the OP is not into it, and that's fine. - some people who are not into their partner will pull away when the other initiates - this is a form of rejection and will, in time, kill love, and can lead to divorce. - When the person responds positively to the one who initiated, that's a good thing! - Different women like different levels of affection. If she's a good lady, the man should be accommodating. Men are usually more into sex. Here is the rule on sex and affection in a relationship - give your partner sex and affection whenever they want it (baring sickness). If you don't buy this rule, don't get married or have kids.... you are a divorce statistic waiting to happen. Here's the deal. Relationships take work. Somebody has to initiate. Even if one initiates, it's never too much work, IF that person loves their partner, the love they feel is payment, and love pays double. There are three major requirements a person must have to be a good catch for a healthy and happy relationship: 1)They must be in love 2) They must have a good attitude, be easy to get along with, low maintenance. This also means they should be flexible. Regarding this topic of affection, it does not matter who asks the other to dance, only that you will dance. If they are complaining about who's asking, they are making a mountain out of a molehill. Who cares who asks, or who leads? As long as they are not tripping, or stepin' on your toes... as long as they are dancing well, cheek-to-cheek, it's beautiful! 3) They must have a minimum of problems - will this person enhance your life, or take away from it? This is a list of items, it could be hundreds. For example, mental problems, control freaks, these are dealbreakers. I don't care who is initiating, as long as they are having sex and affection without much prompting, it's okay! Love is like a dance, a Tango. Who cares who asks for the dance? As long as they are dancing together, all is right with the world. Edited March 20, 2015 by Gary S 1
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