Author SawtoothMars Posted March 20, 2015 Author Posted March 20, 2015 It's only pedophlia because you say it is. We're members of a society, today, here and now, that condemns and denounces such behavior. We classify it as unnatural and predatory, and we seek to expose those guilty of such carnal desires as inhuman, and not worthy of our respect, or of liberty. we persecute such 'animals' and recoil at such proclivities. Yet in parts of the world today, and certainly, not so long ago in our own society, such behaviour was the norm and young girls were betrothed, promised in marriage and 'given away' to much older spouses. in fact, the tendency for men to go with younger women is still the norm; for a woman to marry a younger man still raises eyebrows in some parts, and spouses of identical ages are rare. Granted, the age-gap is much reduced, but it's still considered quite normal, acceptable, and usual for a man to be between 2 - 5 years older than his wife/partner. The age gap is still there, albeit narrower. The reason is as I gave. Because once upon a time, child-brides were socially acceptable. Pedophilia is subjective. I'm not saying it's right, or that it doesn't exist. I'm saying that historically, attitudes being what they were, our current opinion holds no water as to the conditions prevalent then. If our opinions were of any relevance, women would still be wearing corsets and be tied to domesticity. Yeah... so the God of Islam didn't have the foresight to realize that future people's may think poorly of his holy prophet screwing a 9 year old? Pedophilia isn't subjective. You guys are perfectly entitled to call this pheofophilia but it is insulting and ignorant mostly due to the fact that the context of then was not the same as now. Now is a totally different world. I'm shocked some of you are quoting Wikipedia This article best explains why it is insulting to label Aisha a victim and of course for those Muslims who use the age confusion to abuse girls.The truth about Muhammad and Aisha | Myriam François-Cerrah | Comment is free | The Guardian Also Islam isn't the most violent religion today. That perception is incorrect. Many Muslims countries are ruled by oppressive leaders and are invaded and occupied also by the west and its fairly awful foreign policy. Muslims also Muslims. Muslims are not perfect. But frankly some of the generalisation here is wrong. They used these same generalisations to demonize the Jewish community too. Don't do it to the Muslims. The media is very Islamophobic. You need to read the Quran properly with context. In regards to the whole Jewish community being killed and wiped out as toy have said. It was war and their is a context. Muslims did not go around willy nilly killing Jews. Again the west is responsible for the genocide of of the Jewish people, Muslims don't even hate Jews, they Jews and Christians are considered people of the book. That is how they are referred to in the Quran. Also Muslim men can also marry Jewish and Christian people. Muslims these days only care about atrocities taking place in Palestine. Again the media and the world of politics would rather prefer you to believe that Muslims instead are anti semetic. Absolute pish posh. The media in the US is more anti-christian than anti-muslim. They post photos of "Christ in Piss" as art.... but are not willing to post a picture showing Muhammad. So... this claim is so false only people who are crazy stupid believe it. Even Charlie Hebdo mocked Christians 30 times for each 1 time they insulted Muslims. Islam is without doubt the most violent major religion in practice. No Muslim nation in the world allows Christians, or Buddhists to go and preach freely. Muslim's cannot live side by side with any other religion that they cannot freely persecute. They hate Jews because Muhammad hated Jews. They murder people and dream for a Caliphate because Muhammad made a Caliphate of Corpses. Also... thus far nobody has really answered for why this so called "prophet of God" spent all his time killing people? Maybe they should worship Hitler instead... he was a bit more efficient... although less inclined to rape.
alphamale Posted March 20, 2015 Posted March 20, 2015 ... although less inclined to rape. Hitlers troops raped in abandon just like the allied troops... They left a trail of semen from Europe to the US 1
Radu Posted March 20, 2015 Posted March 20, 2015 You guys are perfectly entitled to call this pheofophilia but it is insulting and ignorant mostly due to the fact that the context of then was not the same as now. Now is a totally different world. Agreed ... different context. I'm shocked some of you are quoting Wikipedia This article best explains why it is insulting to label Aisha a victim and of course for those Muslims who use the age confusion to abuse girls.The truth about Muhammad and Aisha | Myriam François-Cerrah | Comment is free | The Guardian Also Islam isn't the most violent religion today. That perception is incorrect. Many Muslims countries are ruled by oppressive leaders and are invaded and occupied also by the west and its fairly awful foreign policy. Muslims also Muslims. Muslims are not perfect. Yes ... i personally know the history of the Ottoman Empire and what came after it. However ... since the 60's the West has reduced it's actions in the Middle East and those that are still there are because of oil or the need to control somewhat the wars. But frankly some of the generalisation here is wrong. They used these same generalisations to demonize the Jewish community too. Don't do it to the Muslims. The media is very Islamophobic. No they didn't. First off ... both jews and muslims are semitic ppl. They both come from the same sunny peninsula and have been equally involved in being tribes. The difference is that the jews had the crap kicked out of them for a few thousands of yrs and only in the last 50yrs they have started going down the deep end. They also don't have large numbers. In contrast ... Islam has the numbers and is still stuck for many in the Middle Ages. A large number of Muslims in fact are sympathetic to ISIS which is heavy on Wahhabi and Salafist influences. These ppl claim that saying 'the world is round' is anti-islamic and proof enough that you deserve to be killed ... even if you are a muslim. The problem is that 25% of the muslims are sympathetic to a death cult that has many many MANY similarities with national-socialism of Germany and communism from the cultural revolution era in China. You need to read the Quran properly with context. In regards to the whole Jewish community being killed and wiped out as toy have said. It was war and their is a context. Muslims did not go around willy nilly killing Jews. Again the west is responsible for the genocide of of the Jewish people, Muslims don't even hate Jews, they Jews and Christians are considered people of the book. That is how they are referred to in the Quran. Also Muslim men can also marry Jewish and Christian people. Muslim men can in fact marry jews and christians ... but have you asked an imam about muslim women ? They are not allowed and this is something all branches of islam agree upon. Islam was created as a religion of peace originally ... but it evolved into a franchise that gave license to take over land and ppl as long as they were ok with some very basic rules [some of whom are derived from tribal traditions of the time]. This is why in just half a century it became this huuuuuge empire. Muslims these days only care about atrocities taking place in Palestine. Again the media and the world of politics would rather prefer you to believe that Muslims instead are anti semetic. Absolute pish posh. And do you know why they care about those atrocities ? Because they don't like the jews ... and most of that is related to the creation of the state of Israel and how it was imposed by the British. Muslims can't even be anti-semitic because they themselves are semitic ... what ... now someone is gonna claim they are self-hating semites ? Anti-jewish is a better term. What the problem here is [and you admit to it] is that muslims are blind to the atrocities committed by their own ppl against others. If a significant part of the population believes that [25% supports ISIS to some ex 1
CrystalCastles Posted March 21, 2015 Posted March 21, 2015 Also Islam isn't the most violent religion today. That perception is incorrect. Name me the religion that is more violent than Islam, then. I have a Muslim friend and we talk a lot about religion and politics, so I went and did some research. I found that suicide bombings are allowed by a lot of Muslims, even though suicide and murder are forbidden by Quran, because suicide bombings are considered martyrdom. Yeah, murdering innocents gets you your ticket into heaven. Many Muslims countries are ruled by oppressive leaders and are invaded and occupied also by the west and its fairly awful foreign policy. Muslims also Muslims. Muslims are not perfect. That's not a good excuse. You need to read the Quran properly with context. In regards to the whole Jewish community being killed and wiped out as toy have said. It was war and their is a context. Muslims did not go around willy nilly killing Jews. Again the west is responsible for the genocide of of the Jewish people, Muslims don't even hate Jews, they Jews and Christians are considered people of the book. That is how they are referred to in the Quran. Also Muslim men can also marry Jewish and Christian people. Muslim women cannot marry Jewish or Christian men. I also have no idea how you can possibly read the Quran "with context". In all my research of Islam and the Quran, there are so many verses that are disputed/interpreted differently. Such as Sura 4:34, if I remember correctly, which says that a Muslim man can hit his wife, but the reverse is not true. Also, I can't agree with "Muslims don't hate Jews". As my Muslim friend said, Muslims and Jews have been in disagreement over religion for a long time. My friend is a Sunni Muslim, and there is even disagreement among his religion- he thinks Shi'a Muslims are stupid, but they're just following a different branch of the same faith so why are they stupid and Sunni Muslims are not? Have you ever wondered why Muslims are killing other Muslims, why they're killing those Yazidi people, why they commit suicide bombings and such? Why is it that no other religion does such a thing? I'm so tired of people talking about Islam like its a peaceful thing, yet they cannot explain why there's so much bloodshed going on in the Middle East at the moment. 2
Gloria25 Posted March 21, 2015 Posted March 21, 2015 If Muhammed was just another person in history, you were right. When people argue that he is the best example to ever walk to earth (past, present AND future), that his teachings are ETERNAL. We call on their BS. Marrying a 6 year old was rubbish then, it's rubbish now, it will be rubbish in the future. The prophet Muhammad is important to Islam because according to God, Muhammad was the last prophet and the Quran is the last guidance for man until Judgment Day. Please note that Muslims must also show proper respect to each prophet that came before Muhammad. Also, Muslims believe Muhammad, and each prophet God sent - share the same lineage, running all the way to Adam - the first man and prophet on earth. Muslims also believe in other teachings/books (i.e. the Torah, Old/New Testament), but believe the Quran succeeds those books because each of those books were introduced with guidance for "that" particular time and that the Quran is supposed to have enough instruction to last till Judgment Day - in other words, the Quran will not need any revisions. For example, with Moses, "magic" was a big thing...so, Moses' sign of God's existence to Pharaoh and his people was through performance of magic. The Quran was important because "poetry" was a big thing in Muhammad's time, so, the "flow" of the Quran was what made it unique and distinct for its time. I don't know about this whole "marrying 9 yr olds". To this date no one even knows what Muhammad looks like. So, until I can get "proof" as to what age Aisha was, I reserve any arguments regarding this topic.
Author SawtoothMars Posted March 21, 2015 Author Posted March 21, 2015 Yes ... i personally know the history of the Ottoman Empire and what came after it. However ... since the 60's the West has reduced it's actions in the Middle East and those that are still there are because of oil or the need to control somewhat the wars. No they didn't. First off ... both jews and muslims are semitic ppl. They both come from the same sunny peninsula and have been equally involved in being tribes. The difference is that the jews had the crap kicked out of them for a few thousands of yrs and only in the last 50yrs they have started going down the deep end. They also don't have large numbers. In contrast ... Islam has the numbers and is still stuck for many in the Middle Ages. A large number of Muslims in fact are sympathetic to ISIS which is heavy on Wahhabi and Salafist influences. These ppl claim that saying 'the world is round' is anti-islamic and proof enough that you deserve to be killed ... even if you are a muslim. The problem is that 25% of the muslims are sympathetic to a death cult that has many many MANY similarities with national-socialism of Germany and communism from the cultural revolution era in China. Muslim men can in fact marry jews and christians ... but have you asked an imam about muslim women ? They are not allowed and this is something all branches of islam agree upon. Islam was created as a religion of peace originally ... but it evolved into a franchise that gave license to take over land and ppl as long as they were ok with some very basic rules [some of whom are derived from tribal traditions of the time]. This is why in just half a century it became this huuuuuge empire. And do you know why they care about those atrocities ? Because they don't like the jews ... and most of that is related to the creation of the state of Israel and how it was imposed by the British. Muslims can't even be anti-semitic because they themselves are semitic ... what ... now someone is gonna claim they are self-hating semites ? Anti-jewish is a better term. What the problem here is [and you admit to it] is that muslims are blind to the atrocities committed by their own ppl against others. If a significant part of the population believes that [25% supports ISIS to some ex First... this a a great post, full of all kinds of insightful and intelligent information. I had to refresh my memory on the wahabis to completely follow. I would disagree with one minor point. Islam was not founded to be a peaceful religion. Muhammad probably put over 100,000 to the sword in his time... and paid his army with sex slaves and stolen gold. Which in it's historical context isn't that different from other secular rulers and generals. The same with having sex with 9 year old girls. However, Muhammad claimed to be a prophet from God. His actions share more commonality with an Aztec King than with any other major prophet in history. Islam CAN be made into a religion of peace... but it requires a rejection of the historical Muhammad.
Gloria25 Posted March 21, 2015 Posted March 21, 2015 When you read it on context, it's even worse because you can't do mental gymnastics over some horrible bits there. AND you should read the supposedly good bits in context as well (e.g. no compulsion in religion only means people shouldn't need any convincing to accept Islam when you read it in context, it doesn't mean people are free to choose their religion). Oh gosh, the "no compulsion" thing means that you don't flip/flop. It means that if you follow one thing in Islam you can't waiver in others. Like you can't say "no to pork, then have a beer", it's "no to pork and beer". Muhammad beheaded hundreds of Jews in one day AFTER they surrendered (Banu Qurayza), and he took their women and children as slaves. What's that about? Muhammad himself said that monkeys are Jews that went finishing on a Sunday. Good luck rationalizing this "in context". See, the bad thing about the Quran is that it was revealed not only to address topics that apply to both Muhammad's time and the future, but to address stuff Muhammad was dealing with - that really don't apply to these times. For example the whole 'find them and kill them' stuff was cuz they were being persecuted and people were selling them out. So, they were like 'find your enemies and kill them.' And that stuff does not apply to "now" cuz no one is persecuting muslims. Also, there are parts of the Quran that do say "an eye for an eye"...but there's other passages that say 'well, yea, an eye for an eye, but forgiveness is better'..but nooo, one wants to pick "that" part of the Quran to focus on. They just wanna focus on the 'eye for an eye' part. And Muslim women can't marry Jewish/Christian men. What's that all about? It's cuz in Islam, men are supposed to be the "leaders" of the household. So, if a woman marries a Jewish and/or Christian man and the decision of "religion" comes up, she'd have to give up her religion to submit to her husband and why would Islam allow their religion to be diluted like that? BTW, while muslim men are allowed to marry non-muslim women - they must marry "pious" women. Absolutely. Muslims today are fine. Islam isn't. The good nice Muslims don't take the Quran or life of Muhammad seriously. Please see my responses in bold ^^ and my responses below: No, correction - IMO, Muslims today are "NOT" fine. Islam is. Islam, like any other religion gets interpreted and perverted by man. During and even after Muhammad's death, there was differences between muslims on how Islam was interpreted and practiced. So, now a days we have ISIS, Taliban, and the muslims who won't stand up against these people. IMO, they rather be oppressed by the Taliban and/or ISIS because they share the same faith - rather than their "enemies" (non-muslims) come and "rescue" them and impose a Christian/Western way of life. I was watching ID the other day and they had a special about "Hate in America" and they talked about a shooting that took place at a Muslim place of worship in the US. Well, I must say that how the Muslims handled it was a surprise to me. Now, I've heard the whole "what did YOU do wrong" in a situation where someone wronged you and I hate when people want to put blame on you when you were the victim, but the Muslims from that mosque said that 'they took a look at themselves and asked themselves what they did wrong to be victims of a shooting'...so, they decided to get more involved with the community through charities and volunteering and stuff. So, I give this group of muslims kudos for taking a bad situation and not using it to say muslims are being persecuted, must fight back, and jihad and death to America...They turned it around into an opportunity to bond with fellow Americans.
Noproblem Posted March 21, 2015 Posted March 21, 2015 History is distorted and the truth is stolen because nobody is there to tell you what's right and what's wrong. Do you think billion people would believe in Islam if they believed the book you just read? There might be many true things in that book and at the same time there are many lies as well. People are enslaved by liars who tell them good stories about their religions and bad stories about other cultures and religions.. This has been happening for centuries now and it's only dividing us even more.. 1
gaius Posted March 21, 2015 Posted March 21, 2015 What shocks me the most about Islam is how the Muslims actually attack and kill other Muslims. This all started because of a disagreement on who is Muhammad's successor. He died almost 1,400 years ago and they are still killing each other over it. In all fairness to Muslims, I'm guessing the Sunni/Shia split was just a reawakening of former tribal rivalries from before Muhammad came along, that he had temporarily put to rest, just like the situation in Ireland was about more than just Protestant/Catholic. People don't really pick what religion or sect they follow based on how good it sounds, there's a lot of social meaning behind it. What clans and tribes they sympathize with. Who they want to be friends with and who they don't like. Which is why you should be very wary of any devout Muslim male in the US, they're pretty plainly showing you their heart and loyalty is elsewhere. It's why after every terrorist attack you find out whoever did it had help from at least 5 of his Muslim friends. I think Muslims and Muhammed get a bad rap in some areas, way too much of a pass in others but I don't know on what planet you have to live on to think Islam isn't the most violent major religion around. But that's the only thing that works in the middle east. It's not just a mindless, barbaric way of doing things but a system that understands and is finely tuned to the reality that exists.
Gloria25 Posted March 21, 2015 Posted March 21, 2015 I think Muslims and Muhammed get a bad rap in some areas, way too much of a pass in others but I don't know on what planet you have to live on to think Islam isn't the most violent major religion around. But that's the only thing that works in the middle east. It's not just a mindless, barbaric way of doing things but a system that understands and is finely tuned to the reality that exists. I think what makes Islam scary is the level of devotion that goes into it. I mean, you tell some naive guy that if he straps a bomb to himself he'll go to heaven and have hot virgins, what guy would turn that down? I mean, Muslims look at this world and see it as "nothing". This world is supposed to be a "pastime" and their life is supposed to be devoted to preparing for the next life (life after Judgment Day). What other religion teaches that concept? If you have a person who could care less about their happiness "here", then imagine what they'd do to secure their happiness in another life? Kinda like a cult where you drink the Kool-Aid to get to the other side. Sad thing is that the creepos that run the Taliban, ISIS and other terrorists groups use this concept of "no hope in this world" to seduce and recruit people who usually are at a low point in their lives and have nothing to live/look forward to - so, they embrace a "jihad" and before you know it, they're strapping a bomb to themselves to go down in a blaze of glory. 2
Clair93 Posted March 21, 2015 Posted March 21, 2015 Please see my responses in bold ^^ and my responses below: Oh gosh, the "no compulsion" thing means that you don't flip/flop. It means that if you follow one thing in Islam you can't waiver in others. Like you can't say "no to pork, then have a beer", it's "no to pork and beer". See, the bad thing about the Quran is that it was revealed not only to address topics that apply to both Muhammad's time and the future, but to address stuff Muhammad was dealing with - that really don't apply to these times. For example the whole 'find them and kill them' stuff was cuz they were being persecuted and people were selling them out. So, they were like 'find your enemies and kill them.' And that stuff does not apply to "now" cuz no one is persecuting muslims. So, Islam teaches to kill people if they're persecuting you. Tell that to the Muslims who scream that they're being persecuted... They apparently have a license to kill others. Also, there are parts of the Quran that do say "an eye for an eye"...but there's other passages that say 'well, yea, an eye for an eye, but forgiveness is better'..but nooo, one wants to pick "that" part of the Quran to focus on. They just wanna focus on the 'eye for an eye' part. The life of Muhammad absolutely shows that "forgiveness is better" is really a throwaway line. He never forgave. It's cuz in Islam, men are supposed to be the "leaders" of the household. So, if a woman marries a Jewish and/or Christian man and the decision of "religion" comes up, she'd have to give up her religion to submit to her husband and why would Islam allow their religion to be diluted like that? BTW, while muslim men are allowed to marry non-muslim women - they must marry "pious" women. So much for women's rights. Still saying that Islam is "fine" today?
Clair93 Posted March 21, 2015 Posted March 21, 2015 The prophet Muhammad is important to Islam because according to God, Muhammad was the last prophet and the Quran is the last guidance for man until Judgment Day. Please note that Muslims must also show proper respect to each prophet that came before Muhammad. Also, Muslims believe Muhammad, and each prophet God sent - share the same lineage, running all the way to Adam - the first man and prophet on earth. Muslims also believe in other teachings/books (i.e. the Torah, Old/New Testament), but believe the Quran succeeds those books because each of those books were introduced with guidance for "that" particular time and that the Quran is supposed to have enough instruction to last till Judgment Day - in other words, the Quran will not need any revisions. For example, with Moses, "magic" was a big thing...so, Moses' sign of God's existence to Pharaoh and his people was through performance of magic. The Quran was important because "poetry" was a big thing in Muhammad's time, so, the "flow" of the Quran was what made it unique and distinct for its time. I don't know about this whole "marrying 9 yr olds". To this date no one even knows what Muhammad looks like. So, until I can get "proof" as to what age Aisha was, I reserve any arguments regarding this topic. You started commenting about the age of Aisha, tried to rationalize it as a political gain: About him marrying the 12 yr old? Marrying in that time was also for political gain. If I'm correct, he married her for those purposes. Yea, the age is creepy, but sometimes when I look at all the nonsense "tweens" now a days get into, they should probably be married off instead of being allowed to taken advantaged of by pimply, horny teens/tweens. When I explained: Aisha was the daughter of Abu Bakr, the first man to become a Muslim and Muhammad's strongest ally and second-in-command. Muhammad often called him his "brother" and he became Islam's first caliphate after Muhammad's death. Abu Bakr also had older, single daughters at the time. Muhammad died when she was 18. There are lots of hadith about Muhammad's feeling and affections for her. Tell me what was the political gain? There wasn't any. Now you deny the whole story and argue that her age is not well-established. That's just plain false. The sources that account for her age are very strong... You can't just dismiss it without also dismissing a very large body of teachings of Islam and life of Muhammad that come from the same sources, and have equal amount of evidence to support them. Again, you can't "pick and choose what you want Islam to be". You said it yourself. And Aisha is not the only young bride that he took, she was just the youngest. Safiyah was around 16 years old, Mulaykah was 13 years old, Amrah was 15 years old. He had a thing for young girls for sure. All of these girls are daughters of his best followers, so the whole "political gain" is just an excuse. The fact that you, and other Islam apologists, play mind games to "reason away" this act shows that clearly even you guys don't believe that Muhammad was a perfect man without his flaws. You can't just honestly admit it as it's an act of apostasy.
Arieswoman Posted March 21, 2015 Posted March 21, 2015 badpenny - post #19 The troubles in Ireland are still burnt on peoples' memories, they're pretty recent. The key issue that sparked "The troubles" in Northern Ireland was the constitutional status of Northern Ireland. It was a political conflict along ethnic/sectarian lines, not a religious conflict. The goal of the unionist and overwhelmingly Protestant majority was to remain part of the United Kingdom. The goal of the nationalist and republican, almost exclusively Catholic, minority was to become part of the Republic of Ireland. Caught between them was the British government, desperate to achieve reconciliation and peace in Northern Ireland but unsure how to facilitate it. Outside the law, paramilitary groups like the Irish Republican Army (IRA) and Ulster Volunteer Force (UVF) used violence and terrorism to impose their political will. For three decades these groups struggled against each other for ascendancy in Northern Ireland. Their actions ended more than 3,500 lives, including many civilians and innocent children caught in the crossfire. 1
Arieswoman Posted March 21, 2015 Posted March 21, 2015 To go back to the OP. Here is some information from Muslims who have left Islam ;- Islam Watch - About Us
SerCay Posted March 21, 2015 Posted March 21, 2015 As an atheist I wonder why some people find it necessary to overlook the bad side of other religions and focus on the bad sides of 1. ALL religions and their leaders (current or past) have done things that are considered immoral nowadays. I wonder why there's this world wide focus on Islam. I mean...seriously, is there anyone out there who actually BELIEVES, ISIS (for example) is an actual group of Muslims instead of a western funded group of militia to work out the western political goals in the east? Think about it...Bin Laden was CIA too, look it up, it's proven 1
Radu Posted March 21, 2015 Posted March 21, 2015 First... this a a great post, full of all kinds of insightful and intelligent information. I had to refresh my memory on the wahabis to completely follow. I would disagree with one minor point. Islam was not founded to be a peaceful religion. Muhammad probably put over 100,000 to the sword in his time... and paid his army with sex slaves and stolen gold. Which in it's historical context isn't that different from other secular rulers and generals. The same with having sex with 9 year old girls. However, Muhammad claimed to be a prophet from God. His actions share more commonality with an Aztec King than with any other major prophet in history. Islam CAN be made into a religion of peace... but it requires a rejection of the historical Muhammad. For the time it was not a bad religion. The extremists today are Salafi's and Wahhabi's who tend to follow what came after Muhammed or if from the time of Muhammed ... the warring part. One thing i personally admire about Islam is the clear cut way in which the marriage contract is done ... it has responsabilities for both parties. 1
Radu Posted March 21, 2015 Posted March 21, 2015 I think what makes Islam scary is the level of devotion that goes into it. I mean, you tell some naive guy that if he straps a bomb to himself he'll go to heaven and have hot virgins, what guy would turn that down? I mean, Muslims look at this world and see it as "nothing". This world is supposed to be a "pastime" and their life is supposed to be devoted to preparing for the next life (life after Judgment Day). What other religion teaches that concept? If you have a person who could care less about their happiness "here", then imagine what they'd do to secure their happiness in another life? Kinda like a cult where you drink the Kool-Aid to get to the other side. Sad thing is that the creepos that run the Taliban, ISIS and other terrorists groups use this concept of "no hope in this world" to seduce and recruit people who usually are at a low point in their lives and have nothing to live/look forward to - so, they embrace a "jihad" and before you know it, they're strapping a bomb to themselves to go down in a blaze of glory. Most of them taught this ... the difference is that they have been a little secularized. So they don't teach it anymore. As for suicide bombers. One of the ways they do that is through this : - strong tribal traditions and a need to preserve honor for the loss of life to the enemy; so they become suicide bombers to preserve honor ... this is why i keep saying that bombing with drones northern paskistan/afghanistan is idiotic and will come down to haunt the US. An example is that doctor who killed those CIA agents by putting explosives into his body. - rape of an unmarried girl; the girl must reclaim honor so she goes for it .... otherwise she gets killed - wife of a man who died in war against West - the useless idiotic fanatics who go to join ISIS and think they will fight ... only to end up in suicide squads
CrystalCastles Posted March 22, 2015 Posted March 22, 2015 As for suicide bombers. One of the ways they do that is through this : - strong tribal traditions and a need to preserve honor for the loss of life to the enemy; so they become suicide bombers to preserve honor ... this is why i keep saying that bombing with drones northern paskistan/afghanistan is idiotic and will come down to haunt the US. An example is that doctor who killed those CIA agents by putting explosives into his body. - rape of an unmarried girl; the girl must reclaim honor so she goes for it .... otherwise she gets killed - wife of a man who died in war against West - the useless idiotic fanatics who go to join ISIS and think they will fight ... only to end up in suicide squads This is only in terms of extremism though. I asked my Muslim friend questions about honour killings and suicide bombing. He said that both are against Islam. He's a relatively liberal Muslim (ie. he does not agree that women should wear niquabs, the hijab should be sufficient for modesty, among other things that he thinks/ideas told here that he rejects). He said that in general, murder is against Islam, and suicide is against Islam, and suicide bombing is therefore against it too. He said that maybe its possible to justify if there is a war and the suicide bomber blows up soldiers from the enemy side, but killing civilians or targeting them, even if they're the enemy, is against Islam. He said that ISIS does not represent Islam, that they do this because they think they will go to paradise but this isn't Islam. I think Gloria made a good point about suicide bombers and extremists, that they don't value life because they think its just a temporary step to paradise after death. All Muslims are definitely not bad, and a lot of them are against what is going on in the Middle East. But there are way more extremists in Islam currently than in other religions, why is that?
Radu Posted March 22, 2015 Posted March 22, 2015 Because of Wahhabi and the strong tribal traditions where Islam initially appeared and later staid. Not to mention that when Christianity started ... there was a separation between church and state. Only later did the Pope get so much power that the state became controlled by the church.
NGC1300 Posted March 22, 2015 Posted March 22, 2015 I did some light reading about the life of Muhammad. It strikes me as interesting that nobody talks about what a complete jerk Muhammad was in history. The guy butchered his way into a blood soaked empire... at several points slaughtering an entire community of jews to take the women and children as sex slaves. The guy married a 12 year old girl for heaven sakes! So... who the hell wants to follow a bloodthirsty pedophile? And have you read the Old Testament? The Judeo/Christian god condones rape, slavery, destroying entire cities, killing non-believers, killing those that worship other gods, and executing gays and others for imaginary theological crimes.
NGC1300 Posted March 22, 2015 Posted March 22, 2015 most religious figures are the worst scum imaginable. jesus, mohammed. all of em Yup. Consider the fact that for all its barbarism, there's no "hell" in the Old Testament. It isn't until gentle Jesus that you're threatened with hell for not following him.
CrystalCastles Posted March 22, 2015 Posted March 22, 2015 And have you read the Old Testament? The Judeo/Christian god condones rape, slavery, destroying entire cities, killing non-believers, killing those that worship other gods, and executing gays and others for imaginary theological crimes. Yes, but notice how nobody from that religion is actually doing those things... 1
endlessabyss Posted March 22, 2015 Posted March 22, 2015 Love these religious threads lol. While the rest of the world is hustling and bustling I'm actually reading through this stuff What has my life become?! 1
NGC1300 Posted March 22, 2015 Posted March 22, 2015 Yes, but notice how nobody from that religion is actually doing those things... Now now they aren't. But 300 years ago they may have burned you alive for being a "witch". Honestly, we would better off without all the Abrahamic religions. 2
SerCay Posted March 22, 2015 Posted March 22, 2015 Now now Honestly, we would better off without all the Abrahamic religions. Agree. In my opinion religion is 1. mass control by the ones in power, 2. explanation for anything they can't explain for the mass Both serve each other well. If people decide to choose a religion, they should take a step back from their culture, and learned behaviour, read as much info as possible about all religions and then choose. There's too much subjectivity and too little objectivity going on in the area of religion discussions. 1
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