SomeDude16 Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 First three dates are on me. Fourth is usually her paying. From there, every third date the woman pays. Of course since I'm paying I get a little more pull in choosing the venue we eat at
katiegrl Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 First three dates are on me. Fourth is usually her paying. From there, every third date the woman pays. Of course since I'm paying I get a little more pull in choosing the venue we eat at Do you keep a scorecard? 1
SomeDude16 Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 Do you keep a scorecard? Yeah, it's a PDF on my phone 1
Diezel Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 Actually, a woman should only offer to pay her share when she isn't interested. If you want to see a guy again, and you offer to help pay, he could take this as a sign that you don't want to see him again. Actually, not true at all. With women making more money than they did 30 years ago, I've never taken the offer to pay as a sign of no interest. I've had women who NEVER offered to pay never talk to me again as I've had recently with my girlfriend who splits the bill with me 80% of the time. Should I start assuming she's not interested? Honestly, I don't think I've ever gone out with a girl and if she paid half, I thought it was immediately over. A confident man wouldn't care whether she offers to pay or not. It'd ultimately be his decision whether to accept that or not. But to take the offer as an indicator of disinterest is not 100% guaranteed.
carhill Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 A couple issues, reflecting on the differences of opinion here: 1. I wasn't talking about disinterest in me, personally, rather disinterest in the gift I was offering the lady. A successful man of my generation doesn't take such disinterest personally, though as a young man I did, before learning from successful men. 2. In my generation and demographic, the person (or couple) who extends a social invitation generally hosts it, whether that be dinner in their home, an event, taking someone out, or even friends having a casual meal. That's the social custom and one we males were socialized into it at a young age. Personally, since I believed in equality for women from a young age, despite the somewhat sexist times I grew up in, I had no problems with women paying or splitting costs. However, the women had great problems with that, and other men didn't get caught dead doing it, so there was refusal from the recipients, meaning I didn't get future dates with that attitude, and the competition was funding the dating milieu so, in part, that was why they got the dates. This was all part of the learning to be successful in one's own demographic period, now some 3-4 decades ago. Are things different today? Probably! However, the older women (my age) whom I dated after getting separated had the old customary perspectives on dating (the person who asks pays) even though they both apparently had good paying jobs, were homeowners, etc, etc. I'd sooner have a successful argument with a stone. They'd simply date someone else. Preferences.
orangetree Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 Actually, a woman should only offer to pay her share when she isn't interested. If you want to see a guy again, and you offer to help pay, he could take this as a sign that you don't want to see him again. I thin that's bull****. A girl should offer to split the bill to show the guy that she doesn't mind to pay. If I was a guy I would take it as a bad sign if a girl was just sitting there waiting for me to pay everything instead of at least offering to pay something. In the end, I think the guy should pay the first date though. Better if you don't take a girl out to a fancy first date bur rather a coffee of ice cream so the loss of money won't hurt so much if she isn't interested. After the first date I'd say it depends on the guy. I would always offer to pay my share, but if the guy insists he wants to pay I wouldn't mind either. I certainly wouldn't pay the whole bill unless we've been dating for a while and he already paid more times than I did.
d0nnivain Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 Don't get on a soapbox about it & start a war of the sexes debate. Offer to pay your half. If he accepts fine. If he doesn't, say I got the next one. Then you schedule a date where you can afford to treat him. It's not exactly Dutch but it's fair & balanced. If pressed about why say something neutral about dating being expensive & since you have a job you don't want dating to be a financial burden for either of you. As you get to know each other better you explore the deeper social ramifications of changing gender roles but don't beat him over the head with feminism. 1
Redhead14 Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 Okay, so for the first date, the etiquette is that the woman should offer to split the check, but let him pay if he wants to. What about after that? I'm really not comfortable letting guys pay for me, but many times I can't afford to pick up the whole check. I'd really prefer to always go Dutch. Is that doable, or will guys object to that? Explain your preference to him. Communicate. If he objects, then maybe you two aren't compatible. Older, more mature men are used to and like to pay for their dates but if they understand your position, they will work with you if they like you enough You can say, "I appreciate your wanting to pay for our dates, but I'd prefer it if we could go dutch". If he insists on paying and you like him enough, let him do that. But even then, you should offer to pay every now and again. Or, commandeer the check before he gets it. If you can, tell the waitress in the very beginning to give you the check. I've done this in the past after our orders have been placed by excusing myself to the restroom and taking the waitress to the side. Doing this eliminates that awkward wrestling for the check. When you pay the check, and he comments or thanks you, you smile and say, you get the next one or something like that.
Vintage79 Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 Maybe let the guy pay for date 2, then pick up date 3 - and basically just take turns paying thereafter, or whatever feels comfortable. Dutch is pretty lame - if you're alternating who pays and you go on more than a few dates, it effectively works out to Dutch anyhow, but it let's someone splurge, or find something more exotic, if they want to. If the person is making an equivalent amount of money to myself, I'd expect them to bring their wallet to the table at some point. I'm always looking for a relationship of equals - if the other person doesn't try to contribute in some way, it's not a relationship of equals, and I bail. The woman needs to show me that she's looking for that (equals) as well - a power imbalance early in a relationship is only going to become exacerbated over time.
carhill Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 Another option, since the topic is 'Paying: 2nd date and beyond', could be to plan a date, ask the guy out, and pay for it. For myself this only happened in established relationships, like with my exW, but I do understand that some women do ask men out on dates so that presents a viable opportunity to return his gift of social interaction. Great point on communication. Since this is the realm of romance and flirtation and sex, I'd suggest couching communication in juicier and less dry terms than are being discussed here. Spice it up a bit. Sure, get the point across, but in a flirtatious way. When reading, I had to chuckle about my last dating experience, now, whoa, 5 years ago.... We had been dating a month, 4-5 dates I think, and I had been paying for all the dates. We had planned a dinner and seeing a new movie at the theater and, at dinner, she mentioned two things first, paying for the movie. Then, two really odd things occurred which caught my attention. The first was a question: 'How do you feel about continuing?' Then, later, after the movie, seemingly purely by coincidence, we ran into a female friend of hers at the theater after the movie. I never saw her again. That's life!
smackie9 Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 I just don't really understand why I get this as a perk of being female. Because women have the control....we decide if they are going to get sex or not....it's showing his worth to you. Don't worry about it for now because it's the early stages. Once a relationship is established going dutch or taking turns is pretty normal. Been doing that with my husband for over 25 years. I've talk to other women that are in LTR/maried and they do the same thing. When dating, most go by: whoever asks for the date puts themselves in the position to pay. Offering to cover the tip is OK.
Auspecial Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 If a man expected me to pay half, I would assume he has "womens lib" issues. That kind of thinking would lead to problems later, because it seems to be wrapped up in a basic dislike for women. Therefore, if a man wanted me to pay half, I would but I would never go out with him again. I have friends who say they would get up and leave immediately if that happened to them. For those who say times are different, women should pay equally, I say that is hogwash. If a man doesn't value me enough to buy me a piece of chicken (or whatever), why would I want to be with him?
mammasita Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 IMO a man paying for dates is chivalrous. I wouldn't have it any other way. To this day I haven't paid the bill but twice in 1.5 years when my man and I have been out. Once I snuck the bill and, the 2nd time was his bday last year. However, I foot the bill in other ways - buying groceries, cooking dinner, maybe buying tickets for events on line (because he hates doing that stuff)..... If on a first date a man takes me up on my offer to pay......I'd gladly pay, but I'd never go out with him again. I wouldn't be impressed with his manners.
katiegrl Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 Another option, since the topic is 'Paying: 2nd date and beyond', could be to plan a date, ask the guy out, and pay for it. For myself this only happened in established relationships, like with my exW, but I do understand that some women do ask men out on dates so that presents a viable opportunity to return his gift of social interaction. Great point on communication. Since this is the realm of romance and flirtation and sex, I'd suggest couching communication in juicier and less dry terms than are being discussed here. Spice it up a bit. Sure, get the point across, but in a flirtatious way. When reading, I had to chuckle about my last dating experience, now, whoa, 5 years ago.... We had been dating a month, 4-5 dates I think, and I had been paying for all the dates. We had planned a dinner and seeing a new movie at the theater and, at dinner, she mentioned two things first, paying for the movie. Then, two really odd things occurred which caught my attention. The first was a question: 'How do you feel about continuing?' Then, later, after the movie, seemingly purely by coincidence, we ran into a female friend of hers at the theater after the movie. I never saw her again. That's life! Your second paragraph... Yes!!!! Was thinking the same thing! Dating should be fun! Light and breezy. Talk about it, but don't make it sound so "formal" ... lighten it up... You can find out ALL sorts of things about someone when you present them in a more playful, LESS serious way...
No_Go Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 My strategy is to alternate instead of splitting: e.g. if he pays for the dinner, I will pay for the movie tickets. I really feel very awkward if he makes it obvious that he's "buying" me on dates (one guy asked me am I comfortable if he treats me - this was an instant passion killer). I also had guys making me pay for everything and sure enough, this didn't go well either (male gold diggers?). Doing Dutch on a date is for friends and kills romance. So to sum up, my only working solution so far is each of us paying for one event for both, for the next one - reversing the roles Okay, so for the first date, the etiquette is that the woman should offer to split the check, but let him pay if he wants to. What about after that? I'm really not comfortable letting guys pay for me, but many times I can't afford to pick up the whole check. I'd really prefer to always go Dutch. Is that doable, or will guys object to that?
No_Go Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 Actually, a woman should only offer to pay her share when she isn't interested. If you want to see a guy again, and you offer to help pay, he could take this as a sign that you don't want to see him again. This is not true btw. What if he makes way less than me or visibly struggles with money (e.g. if he is a student)? And in general, if the man is the one who ALWAYS pays, doesn't this set an unhealthy hierarchy in the relationship?
carhill Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 This <a woman paying means lack of interest> is not true btw. IME, experience varies widely. In my example, her first indication of wanting to pay, and then paying, resulted in no further interactions. That could have been coincidence. Since we can't read minds, the true dynamics are unknown to anyone but the person making the choice. In your case, you know what's in your mind and, if we accept that as authentic, the assertion is false for you. What if he makes way less than me or visibly struggles with money (e.g. if he is a student)? Good question and a two parter. One, how do you view a man who makes less money than you or struggles with money as a dating partner? That's the financial compatibility test. Secondly, how are such disparities communicated and resolved? That's the interaction test.And in general, if the man is the one who ALWAYS pays, doesn't this set an unhealthy hierarchy in the relationship? Good point. It can set up a 'habit', for sure and, to the extent the people view money as power and a relevant power hierarchy is important to one or both of them, such acts could indeed be a harbinger of a hierarchy moving forward. The wrench in the works is change and people's propensities for change and viewpoints on change in relationships. Is today, today, and tomorrow, tomorrow? Is today a forecaster of tomorrow? Shall tomorrow respect today or does tomorrow stand independently? Is the future doomed to repeat history? Viewpoints vary widely on this. Personally, I think people can and do change and often in unexpected ways. The dating experience I recounted underscored that. BTW, my response to the lady's offer to take me to the movie was 'thank you; that's quite generous of you' and I meant it, as generosity in general is something I value in a friend or partner. Her reasons or motivations or feelings were unknown. All I know is, after that night, she was 'busy' and we never interacted again. Life is like that sometimes.
smackie9 Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 This how anyone can guage it...if it's a "lets meet up for...." then I can totally see np offing to pay for half, but if it's "I want to take you out for dinner...." he's paying.
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